Questions around investing in a property

Barbinio wrote:

Hi Mike,

i am a Belgian citizen, currently living in São Paulo with my girlfriend. In a few weeks i have my stable union, and so my permanent visa, with my girlfriend because i am planning to live here for a while. When i have my RNE, we would invest together in a property here, because the euro is still quite strong now. Although i have a few questions about this:
1)Are there limits with international transfers to your own accounts(Belgium>Brazil)?
2) Is it better to do an oversea payment straight to the sellers account? Because i read this is better if you would consider to bring the money abroad again after years
3) Are there specific clauses necessary in the contract for foreigners?
4) Do you know a confident lawyer (not to expensive please) that has experience with properties and foreigners?

Thank you for answering this questions, it would be a great help to me!

Greets,

Thomas

Thomas,
Once you obtain your CRNM and open a bank account there are limits per month. I believe it is around $4000.00 U$D, not sure as to Euros, but will be similar. Once you establish a relationship with your bank's back office the bank can help with additional funds being wired into your account when needed.
If possible I recommend payment to your closing agent. Your agent and seller will agree on the total price including taxes and fees.
As to clauses for a foreigner, I do not believe there is once you have the CRNM.
I cannot help with an SP Lawyer. Maybe someone will help.
You will have some time. Marriage and PR applications will take some time.

06/21/21

There are still some limitations, or at least additional formalities, for foreigners purchasing certain agricultural or coastal land.  But for normal urban properties, residential or commercial, you shouldn't have any problems, and no special clauses relating to nationality should be required.

Texanbrazil's suggestion to pay through your closing agent is an excellent one, especially if you're unfamiliar with the market, the laws, and the language.

The limits on transfer size are in place to detect and prevent financial manipulations.  Exceeding them isn't forbidden, it just requires upfront reporting and evidence that you're doing it for legitimate purposes.  This reporting goes to several federal agencies and includes deadlines; as Texanbrazil suggests, your Brazilian bank can handle this for you, and if you develop a relationship with them, they can accelerate the process.

Be aware that whether you opt for marriage or civil union, you and your partner will choose a formula for distribution of assets at the time that you register your relationship.  Subsequent real estate purchases will follow this formula by default, unless you both agree to treat them separately.  The cartório that processes the sale will ask the question, so you'll want to have an answer ready.

Good luck, and have fun!

Obs:  Who's Mike? 

Great info abthree 
Oh, Thomas, I am not MIke either

Hey Texan,

first of all, thanks for your asnwers and responding that quickly. I read and i believe that limit only counts for transferring when it has nothing to do with a property. Because if you want to invest in a property, there are no limits i tought. Otherwise, how do people invest here in properties?

Hey Abthree,

thanks for your clear answer. I am mainly doing a lot of research to explore and know the market, its mainly the law that is unfamiliar for me. And portuguese i speak as well, but the language for propertycontracts is still different if you know what i mean:).

Our stable union is already officialy registered in separate goods, so this is not a problem either.

Do you think that i have problems with bringing my money back abroad (if we sell later) if the transfer is not overseas directly to the sellers account?
For example, my girlfriend pays the house, we put the contract off the house on our both names and i pay her my part. Because i assume that i would have problems then with bringing back my money out of Brazil to Belgium if we would sell in the future.

Thanks in advance for your support.

Ah yeah, my excuus for writing directly to the name Mike, i read his name on the forum and Mike Natal was answering a lot off questions about this topic apparently. Thats why i wrote directly to him 

Greets,

Thomas

"Do you think that i have problems with bringing my money back abroad (if we sell later) if the transfer is not overseas directly to the sellers account?
For example, my girlfriend pays the house, we put the contract off the house on our both names and I pay her my part. Because i assume that i would have problems then with bringing back my money out of Brazil to Belgium if we would sell in the future."

The only issue I see is exchanging funds. May be hard to sell and receive Euros, but possible.
If declared, and having the sale documents, should be no problem.

06/24/21

Barbinio wrote:

Ah yeah, my excuus for writing directly to the name Mike, i read his name on the forum and Mike Natal was answering a lot off questions about this topic apparently. Thats why i wrote directly to him 

Greets,

Thomas

Oh, THAT Mike! 

He's great, and seems to be very knowledgeable.  I haven't seen him post in quite a while.  If you want to see whether he's still checking in, try posting in the thread that he started a few months ago, or sending him a private message.

Sorry, I can't tell you about getting money out of Brazil.  I came here this time without any idea of ever leaving again, so I've never researched it.  I try not to speculate on subjects I don't know, because that can do more harm than good.

06/24/21

Barbinio wrote:

Hey Texan,

first of all, thanks for your asnwers and responding that quickly. I read and i believe that limit only counts for transferring when it has nothing to do with a property. Because if you want to invest in a property, there are no limits i tought. Otherwise, how do people invest here in properties?

Be careful:  the advance reporting requirements above the stated limits still apply, and not meeting them to the letter can create enormous delays, fines, or even hang your funds up indefinitely.  If you're in compliance than yes, it should be relatively smooth sailing.

I heard that if you transfer money from your bank in EU you must go to the bank to let the bank know the amount of transfer when it is a large amount! So arrange this here so you don't have to fly back!

Hello Barbino, I am an America currently living in Brazil. I know ba great lawyer in Sao Paulo if you are interested, contact me if so.

RemcoIvonne wrote:

I heard that if you transfer money from your bank in EU you must go to the bank to let the bank know the amount of transfer when it is a large amount! So arrange this here so you don't have to fly back!

07/05/21

That is certainly best practice, and prevents many possible complications and delays later.

hi all!

i have bought and sell several times here... not an expert though!! :-)

a few things I can say... I would not transfer my money to third party such as lawyer or closing agent...

I'd rather transfer from my EU account to my brasilian account (mine was at banco do brasil)... as far as I know, if the accounts are under your same name, you can transfer your patrimony without limits... i did transfer 50,000 euros once without any problem nor taxes....  don't though about sending it back to Europe, but having the money here on your account seems safer than in a third party.... we all know what can happen here!! :-)  in France, it would be different as the notaires would take care of everything....

ah, when transfering a big amount of money to Brasil, the money is blocked in a temporary account, and I had to go to my banco do brasil agencies to unblock it...

cheers and bonne chance!
Nicolas

forgot to mention, when unblocking the money, the change is made at that time, and you can discuss (a little bit) the rate to apply with your bank....

97/05/21
Michel Duce

I'm with you:  I always prefer to transfer funds to myself, and disburse them onsite.  Some people can't,  however,  either for lack of a bank account or other valid reasons.   People whose opinions I respect have been successful transferring funds to a real estate agent or an attorney that they considered trustworthy, so I can see how this could be a valid option.

I would never, ever transfer funds directly to the account of a Brazilian seller.

1)Are there limits with international transfers to your own accounts(Belgium>Brazil)?
I don't think so.  You ought to check with your Belgian Banks and Tax Authority. 

2) Is it better to do an oversea payment straight to the sellers account? Because i read this is better if you would consider to bring the money abroad again after years

You can certainly wire the money, but for the sake of Basilea rules, you might be encouraged to open up a banking account

3) Are there specific clauses necessary in the contract for foreigners?

Not necessarily.   You will undergo the same process as everyone else concerning the purchase of your property.   Avoid pre construction deal as to prevent yourself in getting burned.

4) Do you know a confident lawyer (not to expensive please) that has experience with properties and foreigners?

I would say me. I am a licensed real estate broker.

Hi all,

thanks for all the quick, clear and learnfull answers. My first tought was transferring the money to my Brazilian account, so i am going to do this as well.

@Michel: did you ask your bank to do this transfer or did you do this with a certain program like transferwise? Probably i am going to ask this my bank, but i know the rates are higher then

Have a nice day at all!

Greets,

Barbinio

prevailing thought has the US dollar rising, meaning the Real falling, in the near term ...  if this would be me, I would be waiting for a couple of months and maybe do the transfer in several tranches a few weeks apart .... In would expect to see 5.5:1 again but not much more than that before the dollar starts to fall again ....I am not always right, btw, but I do all right .....