In once sense I'm completely sick of this subject and hate to see completely unrelated subjects slide to this discussion in forum threads over and over.
In another it keeps coming up, so it seems as well to address it directly. I just did discuss it a little with one of the few expats I talk to here by message, and just saw a Quora question on the same exact point, so I'll share what I wrote there.
In a sense it's almost the wrong question, because it implies that completely integrating is ideal, and striking a balance between embracing some aspects of local culture and not personally taking up others is sub-optimum or maybe even unworkable. So I mentioned that, that the implication is problematic, but I did go on to pass on my take on the literal question. It's almost too long to cite it all here but it seems rude to not, to excerpt a paragraph or two and then expect others to go elsewhere to read further. Skipping reading any of it might be the best option; who cares what I think? Here it goes anyway.
https://www.quora.com/Can-foreigners-in … n-Bickel-5
This question is almost too familiar, since discussions related to it just won't stop in expat groups, and lots of other topics end up sliding there. The short version: some can and some can't. Speaking or even reading and writing Thai are one critical sticking point. That really maps onto a broader divide relating to foreigners either integrating quite a bit or trying to retain a foreign cultural perspective and strike a balance related to changing over only what they want to adjust.
I'll get the language issue out of the way first. Some foreigners adapt to life in Thailand fairly well with limited local language use. Integrating is another matter. If the idea is to become as Thai as possible obviously speaking fluent Thai is closely related to that. My Thai isn't very good, limited in vocabulary range and not properly pronounced. But I do work in a Thai company, only associate with Thais, for the most part, eat Thai foods, have been a Thai monk, travel more in Thailand than in other countries, have two Thai and US citizen kids, and so on. The balance works but I'm not as integrated as I could be if I spoke fluent Thai.
Back to that divide related to integration. It comes up in discussion because expats crowd into two camps, one very well integrated, and very positive about Thailand, and the other not very well integrated, in lots of cases expressing lots of criticism of Thai practices and culture. The strange part is that there are pros and cons related to any country or culture (or individual life, when you get to it), so it becomes hard to separate out the bias in what others choose to communicate from the interpretive bias in what they actually experience. Almost no one ever says that there is good and bad in the differences between Thailand and their home country, and that their own lives go well in some ways and not as well in others. My sense is that what people want to project and what they actually interpret mix. They're not just either optimists or pessimists, and not just out to spin themselves as having a great life or resentful and open to projecting bitterness, but those two factors combine.
I was a natural fit in Thai culture for some reasons related to who and how I am. I'm relatively quiet and prone to getting along well with others, not as loud, confrontational, or opinionated as lots of people can be. That split isn't intended as positive and negative as it might come across. My wife, who is Thai, is a bit high strung, more vocal, and prone to not emphasizing getting along with others as much as trying to get them to do what she wants them to do. In short, we both match the other's culture better (in that sense, at least). My older brother is a lot like that in a lot of ways, with a very direct and assertive personality, which matched well with going into the military. Neither approach is necessarily good or bad. Either might work best when somewhat moderate, not so assertive that someone can't get along well with others, and not so agreeable to prevent pushing through to an immediate goal if resistance comes up.
I'm not saying that this is the key to getting along in Thai culture, to integrating. My wife is well integrated here; she's Thai, born and raised in Bangkok, only ever spending three years living abroad in the US when we met in grad school in Hawaii. Personalities vary everywhere. To fit in here though someone has to strike a balance with how Thais see and do things. My wife's approach works because she's familiar with when to let that go, and when she can go with her natural inclinations. She has also been raised with the myriad of minor do's and don'ts of Thai culture, so beyond that one broad theme she knows what to do and not do in any given circumstance. Bargaining comes up a lot in tourist questions, and works as an example: she knows when that's appropriate and when it's not. It's not stressful to her in the least as a factor.
Language is one main key as much as anything else, and broad trends in personality type may or may not match with Thai culture well, and the little details add up, but someone really needs to be open to changing how they look at things to integrate. That is just a sum of those things, in a sense, but it almost goes beyond all that. It's not just doing something appropriate in one situation and knowing not to say something in another, it's a shift in perspective. Of course I started with claiming someone could go to an extreme with integrating to enjoy life as a foreigner here, or strike any number of different balances related to that.
It wouldn't be necessary to become a Buddhist, for example, but it wouldn't hurt, and depending on what someone means by “fully integrating” it may need to include that to count. Of course I think a devout Christian could integrate well here, or an atheist. I had studied Buddhism for over 15 years prior to coming here, and had just left off completing two degree programs related to that, a second bachelors and a masters in the study of religion and philosophy. I'm still not exactly Buddhist in the main Thai sense but for the most part I do accept the teachings as one of the main influences in my life. It helps related to understanding Thai perspective, and also to accepting being a family member. As an example my son just ordained for two weeks as a Thai Buddhist novice, and if I were a devout Christian I suppose that could've been a sticking point. Or even if I were a committed atheist, and against teaching my kids any religion. I'll mention a post about how that went for him: Keoni's take on being a Thai Buddhist novice monk
It took me about three years to really adjust to a Thai perspective, exposed only to Thais and their way of thinking and interacting, beyond internet access and television. I would think without some of those natural inclinations to fitting in that would've been more difficult. If I learned more of the Thai language it would go easier, even now, ten years in. I'm not great with languages, but I have studied and learned a bit of French, Spanish, and Sanskrit in the past. I get a sense that people who are naturally adept at languages have an easier time fitting in, and beyond that and almost separate from it people who want to be seen as well-integrated and have better language skills self-promote by playing that up. One expat friend here speaks only slightly better Thai than I do, still quite limited, and he's lived and worked here for half of his life, retired here now. Thai language skills help a lot but there doesn't seem to be any one key to integrating, even though if there is a main factor that's probably it. Liking Thai food doesn't hurt too, and hot weather, or dealing well with leaving behind everything in that other country.
There's one more set of issues that almost never comes up. Some expats are antisocial, or had whatever types of problems in their own lives in that initial home country. If someone wanted to be seen as an outsider, and naturally experienced that where they are from for other reasons (like just being an introvert), that might make for an odd form of natural fit living abroad. The most natural knee-jerk negative read might be that “losers” could do well in Thailand because they get a status boost due to just being “white,” and experience a natural sort of reset / do-over. I'm not trying to say that, but different levels of factors do come into play. For as difficult as it can be to shift perspective and deal with the range of foreign context issues I'd expect that these types of background condition might more typically lead to living abroad not working out.
Can foreigners integrate well into Thai society?
I like reading what you write but I am not sure how many on this forum are capable of wading through your online dissertations. Your tendency to avoid confrontation by qualifying everything and not taking sides makes it hard to comment. There really isn't anything to agree with or disagree with because no position has been taken, except that you are completely sick of the subject. 
I agree with language being important but that is self-serving since I speak Thai. I came here younger than most and have been here longer than most, so that influences my ideas on integration. I look at it as being less binary and more fluid over time. After many years of learning as much as I could about Thailand and spending almost all my time with Thais, of various social classes, and speaking Thai, I found myself trying to rediscover my native language and what influences were most defining in my life.
Age and location played there parts in my introspection as well as the time already spent in country and corresponded to my move upcountry. In the past I have expressed the view, that to me, the integration question was similar to entering into a very long dark tunnel. Obviously people react differently to this disorienting darkness. Some turn around and go home, with others hunkering down in the darkness with a few similar individuals for safety and security. Some of us adapt to the darkness and find a path forward.
I eventually came out the other end of that tunnel where I have more in common with a certain level of Thai society than I do with many foreigners but I pick and choose instead of following one group or the other. We occasionally have lunch with two other couples with Thai wives and the guys are both older and British. They share many cultural similarities like food, politics, comedy and social references I am not familiar with. It is nice to talk with people who are intelligent, articulate and have good command of language but our reference points are often very different. Sometimes I have more similar points of reference with Thais of a certain age and background, which strikes me as interesting.
I am not certain all of this means I am anymore integrated than anyone else but I do have the knowledge and experience to make choices that serve me well. I am not at the mercy of ignorance, making it possible to mold my environment and interactions in a way which is uniquely mine, neither completely Thai nor Farang.
As for being positive in my portrayal of life in Thailand, there are two factors. One, my life experience in Thailand has indeed been very positive and second I choose to act as a counterbalance to all the naysayers and whiners.
I'll go ahead and take that first part as a compliment. I do sometimes wonder how much sense I'm making to anyone, or in general. It all seems so simple and clear to me somehow.
Greetings, as an Asian, I am often quietly embarrassed by the realities. With a few very lucky exceptions, the extent, and level of integration into Thai society, is strictly determined by the level of each foreigner's skin-color tone (per se), and, of course the foreigner's utility value, both within, and to their current Thai community. That standard even holds true for Thai nationals, as per the following: https://youtu.be/IoHtH6OjsUk
In addition, astute foreigners, are always mindful of their guest-status, and thus, they manage to integrate themselves (quite-well) into Thai Society.
I feel I want to say my opinion about this. I have lived almost all my life in Thailand and since my adoptive family is Thai, I have, in principle, only Thaifriends, even in Sweden, my country of birth. But it does not matter that I feel more Thai than Swedish for my appearance is not Thai so the Thai people see me forever as farang. I can speak Thai, both in speech and writing, but I do not use it to communicate, but only to understand myself. I talk Thai with my relatives but if I use Thai language with others, the Thaipeople will no longer speak openly, and in order to integrate, you need to know how Thai people think. As long as they think you do not understand they are completely open in conversation with each other and you can quickly find out who are interested in joining in a closer rellation. Nor can I ever be fooled in stores because I understand what they say. But there are few times I use the language to correct. Most often, I let them fool me but never return to that store again. This because I do not want them to understand that I understood. In order to be able to integrate into what society as well with such great nationalism as in Thailand, one must be able to make some important things. You must understand the rules of Buddhist, Country and Friendship, and you must be foreign, do not try to become Thai, keep your origin and be proud of it, but do not try to emphasize that your country is better. For Thai, there is only one country in the world, and it is Thailand. And in Thailand everything is greatest, best and most beautiful. And because you chose to live here, it's a good idea to agree with it.
You do not need to convert to Buddhism, and you do not need to understand Buddhism, but you need to understand why you celebrate some Buddhist festivals and do your best to show respect for Buddha. Have the Buddha in a necklace is a small but effective thing in that make friends, according to Buddhist rules, there should be at least 3 amulets on the chain and have you managed to get an amulet of King Rama IX as well, many doors will be opened to you in Thailand. But do not buy them, you must have these gifts. It may seem impossible if you do not know anyone. But in the temples it works so that you give an optional gift in the form of money and in return you get a Buddha amulet as a gift from the temple. This is the first way to more easily integrate into Thai society. King amulets are harder to get but do not give up.
Another important part is how Thai people look at you. Do you look like a tourist, they will treat you like a tourist. But you dress like them in long pants and even shirt when it's 30 ° hot, they'll see you more like them. Another thing is how you behave, keep calm at all times, even if you get really angry, do not show it. Do not show love to your cohabite openly, as you do at home, not in the eyes of others. In Sweden we are a little lazy so we do not bend down to point something with our hand, but we point with the foot. You should definitely not do that in Thailand. The foot is the dirtiest part of the body in Thai culture, and it's used to moving around. Never fold someone onsomes head, even sweet little children to close friends, the head is the holiest part of the body and it must not be touched by anyone's dirty hands. Learn the Wai rules, how to greet others and when to do it and when answering a Wai with a Wai, this is very important for being treated like others. Do not try to greet a handshake, they will take you hand because they respect you, but they do not like it.
Do not try to get too close to the monks, especially if you are a woman you should not touch a monk. You do not need to understand or like it, just stay out.
When you're home with new friends, you're sure to be served on cheaply and unpleasant Thai whiskey, drink it's a good advice. Even if you do not usually drink alcohol it's a pleasure that they respect you and that you are now part of the family.
These are a few but important rules everyone who comes to Thailand should know. But do not try to be Thai, because Thai is Thai and you are foreign, but show that you respect their culture and their rules, so you will soon be integrated into Thai society, and because nationalism is so strong in Thailand, They are also up to others who are nationalists about their own homeland. They are hungry for information on how it is in your home country and they will look up to you if you speak lovingly about your home country, even if you are happy to claim that Thailand is still a bit better.
Money is also an important part of integrating, as foreign, you are expected to pay for your partner and her family, but do not let them suck you completely, keep a reasonable level of what you can and what they need. It depends wholly on who it is. But you do not get away completely, and usually you have a lot more money than them, even if you are poor in your home country and they are rich in Thailand. But accepting to pay all the time does not create respect.
And last, do not forget to smile. To smile to people so they will smile to you, and with a smile you will get benefits wherever you are in the world.
Using a few phrases on bad Thai is good, but do not show that you can fluent Thai. It shows that you try and try to put more respect than showing that you fully understand them.
So it is important to find the balance between maintaining its origin, yet respecting the Thai view of Thailand as the world's middle point.
Mr. Manschett Yesterday 20:19:06
Thanks so much... lots of good information for everyone to think about. It's their culture and we need to try and be respectful of that when we're here. I was reprimanded several times by wife for using my foot to point and once for petting a cat at someone's house with my foot when it rubbed up against my legs while I was sitting. You would think I did something terrible to that cat. Now, I know better...
Kindly...
I'm a member of a Moscow Expats group, related to visiting there a few months back and joining to ask questions, and there's a current thread that seems to show the exact same patterns play out there. That probably wouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, that it's not just Thai culture but the general context that brings up this particular split in how expats relate to culture and transitioning: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moscowe … 807346047/
Yes, it's really the same throughout the world, with a difference. When people who are temporarily wealthy come to countries that are ever poor, they themselves do exactly what they want. It is not like that. Wherever you choose to move, it's important to understand the place you come to and customize according to their manners.
And to stubbornly stay in the big question mark, why can not I be like I'm home when I come to another country is corked.
I do not really know what you are looking for, there is no real question in your text and with no discussion topic. It's more like an excerpt of a book. So be nice and show more concrete what's bothering you in Thailand.
I find the idea of not speaking Thai as a way of getting one up on the Thais around you completely repugnant and disingenuous. I find that Thais are always greatly relieved and appreciative of being able to speak to me in their native tongue.
Admittedly I went through a phase where I wore Buddhist amulets, given to me by friends, but I was very young and I quickly outgrew that phase. If you don't truly believe I again find such behavior disingenuous.
Heavy drinking Thais can be put off by being unable to coerce you into drinking with them but they will get over it, if you handle yourself correctly. I am polite but firm, leaving no room for discussion or bargaining. I do not drink and I never have.
I have taken myself out of the money dance and let my wife pay for everything we do. Depending on the kind of Thais we are with, she could pay for everything which is usually reciprocated at a later date, pay for her portion or what they call American share, or pay nothing when friends would be insulted by us paying.
Smiling is good, as is allowing them to cling to their beliefs, being non confrontational, and genteelly showing them alternatives by setting an example with your own life. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't gamble, speak softly and politely, exercise, raise you pets with kindness, love and discipline and keep your living area clean and orderly. You don't have to force others to do it your way but by seeing an alternative way some people will want to try or have questions about why you do something a certain way.
Often people make generalizations about Thailand based on a very limited exposer to the broader Thai society. Granted, if you marry into the lowest social class in Thailand you are not going to be very upwardly mobile and that level of existence will become your reality here in Thailand. It is not fair, however, to generalize ones experiences to all Thais. With even slightly different choices one can have a very different relationship with Thais and Thailand.
Yes, we all have different experiences, and we all choose how we want to live.
Like yourself I do not drink or gamble Villagefalang and I have never found it to be a problem. My wife feels it is more virtuous and respected than being a heavy drinker or gambler in polite Thai society and I am inclined to agree with her.
I'm not sure why anyone would wish to become fully a part of Thai society as mentioned in the OP? You are not and you never will be so why the angst over the idea? I was born and raised in America and will forever be American. I am polite, speak Thai whenever I can, slow to anger and quick to smile. I am well accepted. That is the best I can expect of the Thais around me and it makes living here very easy and enjoyable.
I keep coming back to the idea that Thailand is much more diverse than people tend to imply with there references to Thai people. Yes, there are bad people but remember there are nearly seventy million Thais, so if you are surrounded by the bad ones that is your own fault, as there are tens of millions of good ones out there.
Consider for a moment foreigners attempting to integrate in your country. In my country there are many options like inner-city slums with crackhouses and violent street gangs, rundown former mining or manufacturing towns where people are unemployed and hooked on opioids, Indian reservations, farming communities where people don't believe in evolution or science, there are suburbs, gated communities, tourist towns, university towns, booming urban centers, and an endless variety of places offering a variety of healthy or unhealthy lifestyles. How would you feel is someone only visited the worst your country had to offer and judged the whole country on that limited experience? People like to be judged based on the ideals and aspirations, not on their shortcomings and rabble.
That is what happens much of the time in Thailand. People visit an area infested with criminals, prostitutes and people for whom foreigners are a job and if lucky a financial windfall. Based on their interactions with these people, arguably the bottom of the barrel socially, they make broad generalizations about the negative aspects of Thai people and Thai culture.
So when asking about integrating into Thai society one has to ask what level of Thai society are you aspiring to integrate into. Language, customs, manners, food, dress, knowledge and education can vary greatly depending on the area and level of society you are talking about. What people say about Thailand often provides greater insight into who they are and who they spend their time with.
You are so correct and honest it is completely possible to integrate into Thai society fully we are only guests. A westerner is and will always be a complete outsider and when they understand that then and only then can they survive and pretend to integrate. The smiles and pleasantries are a nice facade and welcome distraction from the reality.
Having said this if you look hard enough in Thailand you will find a few jewels.
Now I have move to countryside in Saraburi and se another kind of Thaipeople, they are very friendly and on this 2 weeks I have live here now I have get more friends then I get all years in big city in Thailand. All people around this village come and want my friendship and all try to learn me Thai 
but I can Thai I only don't talk because before people go away if I show I can understand them. Another good thing here is that is cheap a lot, I rent a townhouse and pay 1.600 baht/month they have a store with restaurant and food cost 40 baht, so here I will stay long time I think, save money ang get good friend. After many years in Thailand I at last find my place.
I think this is a very important fact for any foreigner to remember. You will NEVER be accepted as a Thai. And trying to integrate yourself too far into Thai culture will make for many awkward and uncomfortable situations for you and your hosts.
Most Asian countries, outside of Singapore, are not countries of immigrants like the US, Canada or several countries in Europe and South America. They respect foreigners, but treat them as foreigners. It's how they were brought up and you are not going to change centuries of cultural thinking, no matter how open and sincere you are.
That's why It's important as a foreigner to know your place. It will make your life and the lives of Thais around you less uncomfortable. It will also cause you to be judged as a person of dignity if you are seen to be proud of your origins.
I would tend to agree with this last comment, that Thais aren't likely to relate to a foreigner as a Thai, as not being a foreigner. I would think complete language fluency might factor in quite a bit though, that if Thais could converse with you using language exactly the same way they do they might tend to shift that expectation a good bit.
That comment was framed as just how Thais see things, but some of the rest probably works in the US too. If a foreigner could become unusually fluent in English that would already involve picking up a solid grasp of how lots of background context is framed. That, along with the effect of clear communication, would tend to make Americans see a foreigner as well integrated, as not differing in perspective from them. There are limits to who that would work with, in both countries, but some of that same limitation would apply everywhere.
All of this probably extends to a middle ground too. A foreigner who could only use a dozen words in Thai is going to retain a lot of the stereotype and natural distance and one who isn't completely fluent but can muddle through a few hundred badly pronounced words would probably be more accepted and slightly more integrated. It also helps becoming comfortable with local customs and practices, and moving beyond caring what other people think or expect related to how foreigners are probably different.
I agree that language is very important if one really wants to fit in and be seen as something other than an oddity. It is sometimes interesting to observe as Thais try to figure out how to deal with me in a new environment. Generally there is a Thai etiquette which determines who talks to whom and when, and I am not typically singled out for special attention.
Our Saturday outing serves as a good example. My wife arranged for us to join a group at an Eco tourism homestay in Chiang Saen, which she had read about online. I was the only foreigner and by far the oldest in our group so I just went with the flow, waited for introductions and only spoke when people felt comfortable speaking with me. Only a couple of people commented briefly on my ability to speak Thai, with most taking it in stride. No special concessions were made for my age or skin color.
We joined a university professor who had a film crew and a half dozen students with her. The government official, who is the main organizer, was there for an interview as well as the wife of the village headman, representing the Yao village where we spent the day being emersed into their culture. Food, clothing, silver jewelry, smithery and tool repair, a hike to a waterfall with a meal prepared from scratch in the jungle, a sunset lecture on a boat in the middle of the Mekong and evening entertainment with another meal on the banks of the river.
Everyone knew I was a foreigner by looking at me but I was not treated any worse than a Thai and I don't remember anyone asking the typical tourist questions about where I come from or what I think of Thailand. Here are a few of my photos posted on my FaceBook page.
Cool pictures. Part of what you're saying matches up with the comment by Dave Proulx, that the role of the foreigner is different than that as a Thai. One might interpret that as being treated negatively in some fashion, or rejected as an outsider, but a neutral read of what he's saying only includes the idea that foreigners don't fit into the range of social roles and status Thais interpret themselves as falling into.
Beyond that and the language issue it seems like people react to other people on a level of assumptions, which causes Thais to use how you see yourself as fitting in as a starting point.
I'll cite an example. People obviously can see that I'm a foreigner, and I'm not using complete language fluency to offset that and fit in as if I'm not. I can speak some Thai, badly, and that's it. But people almost never make much of me being a foreigner, because it just seems normal to me, and it's a bit unnatural for them to completely reject that assumed context. Going to work events or walking around our relatively local neighborhood it's obvious that I'm not Thai, but it hardly ever comes up that I'm a foreigner, beyond the initial reaction "there's a foreigner." I was just walking with my son over the weekend and someone pointed it out, indirectly implied in what they said, and he noted that it seemed strange they'd mention it.
So I guess based on interpreting what Dave is saying in a different way, that foreigners can't fit in, I am rejecting that. The social exchange context is designed for everyone to fit in on clearly defined levels, and foreigners are essentially by definition outside of that, but in a sense it's not that hard for people to work around that. Preconceptions about status level for a foreigner have to take up some of the slack but it's really not that much of a stretch for people to process that.
Being Thai can be very limiting as you are forced into a class box but as a foreigner you are free from those limitations, so I much prefer the freedom of being a foreigner in Thailand over being Thai. I don't agree with any negative interpretation of not being seen as Thai.
villagefarang wrote:Being Thai can be very limiting as you are forced into a class box but as a foreigner you are free from those limitations, so I much prefer the freedom of being a foreigner in Thailand over being Thai. I don't agree with any negative interpretation of not being seen as Thai.
Quite true, for the most part. However, I'm sure you are aware that one of the personal freedom perks, is the "farang" freedom to totally "walk-away" from any incumbrance(s) connected to any personal relationship, with any Thai person,............................whenever.
Lucky you! I'm just a bit jealous 
In theory I guess a farang could walk away from almost anything or anyone in Thailand but that doesn't mean anyone would. I for one have no other home than Thailand, so I don't know where else I might go, besides I would never do that to my wife.
I was thinking more along the lines of having more social and cultural freedom than a Thai might. Still language, appearance and behavior have to be within acceptable norms if one wants to take full advantage of being a farang here.
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