Very heavy heart

So you are still moving, just a little later.
South coast, east coast and on rare occasions the west coast of the mainland gets a huracane, California and many other places have earthquakes, Nevada has them too and who knows how many underground missiles leaking radioactive material, the midwest has the tornadoes, the north east has its Noreastern storms. Nowhere you go is perfect or safe. And if Kim decides to nuke the US, you can lay in you hammock in PR drinking your margarita and await for the wind to bring the radioactive cloud

I decided to move in Summer after my house is sold and that is that no matter what comes.

@Rey, I am moving no matter what, I'm not worried about hurricanes! I'm standing with the people of puerto rico! God's will, will be done, I refuse to live in fear of the weather, if it's my time, then so be it but I refuse to live in the mainland USA! I'm DONE!

As soon as electric, water and the postal service are established i will be returning. Until that happens i cannot be much of help let alone get there. I am really concerned about my neighbors in the mountains...And my friends  in town and  everywhere.  None of my plans have changed.  I am given more of a reason to put them in motion. Ojala

We still plan on buying a place in PR and will likely be down in March.  We still haven't heard anything on the house in the southwest we were planning to buy, but since it had a wooden second story.... well, that is anyone's guess right now.

So, it might be back to square 1, but we feel that PR is our second home and there is no where else I want to be.  The hurricane is a game changer in that we will be very careful about the structure and location.

@Annabfalter, I'm somewhat in the same situation, but the house I'm in talks with was concrete but I'm betting the roof is blown to kingdom come. I talked with my agent a few days before hurricane irma, but hurricane maria was the big one, so I'm hoping her family and friends are ok.  I'm sending my prayers and donations to puerto rico.

We are still planning to move to Puerto Rico next year if everything works out for us. Now more than ever we are done with the states and our desire is even stronger to help save the island.

As for now we are supporting hurricane relief with donations to rebuild and aid the people. In addition, have been leaving supplies at drop off centers here in NYC.

I encourage anyone reading this to make a donation to any reputable organization. Puerto Rico needs us all to come together for support in this time of desperate need. Pa'lante Puerto Rico!🇵🇷

I am not sure what to do! The optics of Puerto Rico look very, very bad. My heart is crushed and I am very upset with our Commander & Chief! Treat this as a war situation and get the military in and stabilize this challenge!

I am searching for hope. As of today, my plans remain, to go to Puerto Rico in December to look for  property, but... not another Katrina!

Hopefully, we will all have a better picture of the situation in a few days or weeks.  At this point in time we need to pause and reassess the island and our plans to move.   

We had planned to return to the island in a few weeks, now we need to wait and learn more about conditions - do we have a house anymore?  If so, is it livable?  or a tear down and start over?

I understand the pain!

Go back and find a thread entitled Puerto Rico is Rebounding, which just started a few days ago by some Millennials, I guess. There was already high unemployment and shuttered businesses. The tourist industry is effectively shut down. Those who had jobs in hospitality are out of luck. Cruise ships will bypass USVI and PR, not to mention BVI, Dominica, etc. From what I can understand, Rosello (sp?) doesn't have logistical control. USN should have been deployed, but that's a 45 call. Anyone who thinks this is a few weeks and it's over is badly  mistaken, but several longtime posters on this forum are in my thoughts, ReyP, being one, among many.

seoulguy wrote:

USN should have been deployed, but that's a 45 call.

DoD has been on the job from the start.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Special-Re … ane-maria/

Hey, hey, HEY, I started the post regarding rebuilding! And trust me, I am getting up there in age The article referenced in that post was informative and it gave me hope, thus I thought it was good to share with others. I am glad that you read it. Now, you might differ with it, (and that's ok), but it's not helpful to personally attack.

For me, it is returning to my roots as opposed to an escape from living in the states. Puerto Rico means much more to me than just a nice place to vacation.

Psych2 wrote:

Hey, hey, HEY, I started the post regarding rebuilding! And trust me, I am getting up there in age The article referenced in that post was informative and it gave me hope, thus I thought it was good to share with others. I am glad that you read it. Now, you might differ with it, (and that's ok), but it's not helpful to personally attack.

We here in New York are trying to remain hopeful. I can't imagine PR becoming a wasteland or another Hawaii.  As a Puerto Rican who grew up spending time on the island it is very personal for me to want to see Puerto Rico pull through this. I am committed while here in the states to do what I can within my means to help make a difference.

Here, here I'm moving to puerto rico to be a positive influence, I'll learn the language and volunteer my services for people less fortunate than myself.  hey maybe I'll run into some of you there  lol

Ok guys politics is not allowed, im busy right now and will read the posts later and delete the ones that are not appropriate.

Ok I prune a lot of messages, I cant believe that some of you old posters here were getting into politics instead of what we are here for. Which is to help people by answering their questions about moving to Puerto Rico. What the president the republicans or democrats do or not do is out of bounds here. The statements about racism are also out of bounds here.

If you check you will see a lot of the messages are no longer there. Lets stick to what this board is about, those other comments belong in Facebook, not here.

Hello everyone,

Closing this thread temporarily for review.

It will soon be re opened.

Thanks for your patience,
Bhavna
----------------------------

Thread re opened.

My sincerest apologies to all of the Expat staff. I'm so involved with helping to bring more awareness of Puerto Rico's plight that I got ahead of myself posting the Jones Act waiver on here. It will not happen again. Thank you for allowing me to share my other post of donations, volunteering and drop offs for Puerto Rico.

I was just bringing awareness to the situation also, unfortunately POLITICS is the heart of many life related issues, therefore I offer no apologies for stating the cold hard facts, I didn't name call, I simply stated what american television is reporting. I stand with the people of the caribbean islands, especially puetro rico

BTW I will not post any political realities here. I respect this site very much.

My husband and I are still committed to moving, we hope in 2018!!  We are watching the news and sending our prayers to all those that will soon be our neighbors!  Our hearts are aching for you!!

We are planning on moving there this summer but with the current situation it's hard to coordinate / plan the visits  to drive around neighborhoods and tour schools. We are hoping in a few months things will be good enough to make a visit over the holidays

It's temporary, as I understand it; McCain going for permanent.

I live in Palmas Del Mar.....my concrete house held....even the roof, just lost shingles, glass and took on some water....the house isn't bad. Im a little worse for wear though

I want to thank all the ones here who "LIKED" my post. I can only control one thing, "ME", I'm not moving to puerto rico to vegetate or act like a lame tourist, I'm going to get involved with community service organizations and do my part to help people, especially children, God knows that I'm not wealthy but I'm going to be a asset .

Echoing Knight444, I was thinking what it might be like in six months, that maybe I could make a go of it, even at my age, in PR, after all, I do run a business and I do pay taxes, so maybe one taxpayer to the many who will flee ......,  then the following came to my attention from Vox today (and it's not political): "In the wake of hurricanes Maria and Irma, 95 percent of Puerto Rico's electric grid is down. A public health crisis is underway, and the 3.4 million US citizens living on the island need federal assistance. But the road to recovery is long, due in part to the unique relationship the territory has to the mainland."  From a Vox byline entitled "Why Puerto Rico will be without power for months". And reality hits. Does anyone think that drinking creek water won't have consequences or that Vieques will ever return to normalcy (see NY Times today)? I'm not going to comment on the premise of the Vox quote, but those having the same thoughts as Knight444, i.e., PR or bust, should consider the reality of a mainland-dependent territory. Even in the best of times, and remember PR was, in effect, in "receivership" before Irma/Maria.  Even USVI isn't getting much support. What do you think?

I think it is ok in most cases to drink water from a creek if you boil it for 5 minutes first.

As to recovery, it is going to take a while to rebuild. Turist areas will be up and running in 6 months tops.

Fema will help some but there are some problems in the way.
1) those that do not have tittle to their homes (squaters) to my knowledge are not elegible for reconstruction funds
2) To my knowledge those that are eligible will need to construct based on codes, not sure that a wooden house would meet codes in PR.
3) A lot of wooden houses in PR are put together by the owner and friends, not build professionally. As such at the next huracane they could be wiped again.

It is going to take 3 or more years in my opinion before everyone has a roof again over their head.

One positive..... Electric service is likely to end up better than befire and will be more reliable.

A few months ago Governor Rossello estimated that the Puerto Rican economy would record negative growth for the next ten years. If anyone believes that the island will bounce back quickly from this destruction, they are delusional.  However it seems to me that there are a few possible scenarios that result from Maria.

1) Most likely I suspect that many who have lost their homes and who receive federal funds will use this as an opportunity to leave the island.  Why spend the funds to rebuild a home in a place that offers you so little?  Before you object, bear in mind that most contributors to this forum advise against moving to the island if you expect to find work there.  Why would you think that a resident with cash in hand and a destroyed and devalued property would wish to remain?

2)  Modest investment in PR infrastructure.  Significant improvement  (all new materials) for electric grid in Greater San Juan, but patches (that is splices) elsewhere.  Splicing the lines will be the fastest way to restore power, even if it is unreliable.  Modest investment in roads, bridges, communications and internet infrastructure.  Expect to see this infrastructure restored but not improved  The idea that the hurricane will solve all of the island's infrastructure problems is unrealistic.  The money and the political will to do this are simply not there.  The focus is on relief, not reconstruction to the point of making it all new and better.

3) It is possible that the hurricane will expedite the economic recovery by accelerating the economic collapse.  Outside investors in Puerto Rico are waiting for the bottom, and Maria may have brought about that point even faster.  Moreover, the exodus of residents should alleviate the unemployment problem -- fewer workers mean higher wages.  Lastly, the destruction to the grid may bring about the privatization of PREPA even faster, though perhaps not at a price that the government would desire.   Such a privatization, would mean a utility under significant public regulation, but with incentives for efficiency not found in a publicly-owned utility.

I expect real estate values, already at their lowest point in ten years, to drop even further in the near future.  Foreclosures will spike as emigration accelerates.  However, this will produce a spike in outside investment in the island.  It may be that the economy returns to positive growth in as few as seven years.

Yes, I'm risking it all, I'm 56 yrs old, lived in mainland usa ALL MY LIFE, I've had it! I'm giving up much to move there. I'm selling my acura nsx (VALUE 31,000) dollars, giving away all my household goods, I'm only taking my hobby with me (VALUE 16,000) ,  I'm  leaving my best friend, who's a angel to me. I've never been to puerto rico but I feel like it's my destiny. None of us knows what tomorrow will bring, california has earthquakes and people move there, texas has hurricanes and floods but people move there also. My point? for me personally, I'd rather be somewhere, where I feel happy and free, I'd rather live around people who value me as a human being and I respect them also,  I'm not feeling that in the mainland usa!  Like frank sinatra said, ''I Did It, My Way.''

LOL  I promised no more politics but I trust the usa as far as I can throw it! I will keep money in a usa credit union, NOT A BANK and trust in God and the wisdom and common sense that the creator has given me. puerto rico will rebuild, no hurricanes or politicians will take that away! I love you all, be strong and have faith!  and have money tucked away  lol

Looks like someone will have to start a new thread, something like "What's next?" or "PR post-recovery", particularly in view of the incisive post by WarnerW.  There will be scurrying around to "fix up" the Condado and Isla Verde hotels, hopefully by December, but I'd be skeptical. It might bring some dollars, but no windfall. Neither scenario 1, nor 2 nor 3 seems particularly optimistic. But they should be illuminating for those planning to move to, or out of, PR. It's the "frying pan into the fire" which tends to hold that expats might wind up exchanging one set of bad conditions for another set of bad conditions.

I'm looking to cut down expenses in the last years, housing being a main thorn in my saddle. You can troll the forums of Colombia or Mexico. Both countries offer temp or perm resident visas if one can meet reasonable financial criteria (easier in CO). The joke is that one of the main reasons for retirement in either country is low COL and that's just not the case now because so many expats have driven up costs in places like Cabo, Playa del Carmen, Pto Vallarta. I remember when DF was accessible to the somewhat financially challenged, no more, though.

So, replacing a tin roof on wood with a tin roof on wood (I remember seeing some of these, even in Santurce, years ago) seems foolish. Owners who have long since left the island and their property in the hands of dubious realtors, well, those buildings are unsold and just look at them on Clasificados. Better to knock them down if Maria hasn't already and start from scratch.  WarnerW suggests even lower values.  So, wondering if there will even be a rental market (long-term, not tourist) in six to eight months, or if, indeed, property values will begin a steep descent.

Fema seems to be putting some of those folks in rental units and some in "hotels", I would assume that this would have some effect on the rental business but not at expert on that.

When Irma came to Florida, some from PR living in Florida were nervous because they were used to having a concrete house in PR and the homes they rented in Florida were wood.

I am positive that Tourist areas in San Juan will be operational by Dec, because the industry and the government want the money it brings.

We have been able to contact a few friends in PR.   Some limited cell service and email.  Outside of SJ no power, water, limited delivery by truck, no way to tell the people where the truck will be located.  Trying to send cash via ATH Móvil, not sure if banks or ATMs open?

Have a friend who needs to return to states for medical reasons- can't get a flight still!

This is going to be a slow recovery.  I hope my contractor doesn't leave the island, will have rebuilding to do soon.

Sitka wrote:

I hope my contractor doesn't leave the island, will have rebuilding to do soon.

Probably the least-likely person to leave the island.  There's too much money to be made in construction, both in the near term and into the distant future.  Salvageable structures will need repair, and I think Seoulguy is right, and the heavily-damaged wooden structures will be demolished and replaced once real estate investment dollars start flowing.  Seems like a good outlook for the construction sector.

I really don't know how much more real estate prices can continue to fall.  They have been declining for the last ten years, so there can't be too much room left for them to drop.  Nevertheless, I do expect foreclosures to spike, and basic economic theory suggests that as the supply of properties increases, prices will fall until demand picks up.  In the interest of full disclosure, I'm still trying to buy property.  I would say that Maria put things on hold, but that would imply that there had been some progress.  My current offer, a cash offer made to a bank for a foreclosed property, has been active for a year now.  Oh well.  I'm not looking to get the best possible deal -- and who knows, maybe the prospect of additional foreclosures might motivate the bank to respond to my offer.

I think Rey is right that once the heavily-populated centers have utilities restored, the government's focus will likely be on getting tourism back on line.  I too think that it will take at least a year for that sector to bounce back.  My bigger concern is the devastation to the agriculture sector.  The NYT reports the loss of 80% of the value of the crops -- that hurts twice.  Farmers lose the revenue and the island loses the food.  We may find many more farms in foreclosure soon, as the crop loss winds up being greater than the loss in damaged buildings.

My advice for puerto rico, don't depend on the mainland usa, SORRY, I'm just speaking from experience, if the mainland usa was going to make puerto rico a 51st state, if would have happened already, SORRY. Listen, 50% of mainland usa people aren't intelligent enough to know puerto rico is a territory of the usa, what does that tell you?????   A- this rebuild can be a positive thing, B- go GREEN, go solar, either invest into solar panels or bring in foreign investors and get it done. Reduce oil shipments from the usa, the ''JONES ACT" isn't your friend. B- encourage more farming, grow most of your food. Listen, (R) john mccain and many dems, want to reduce or abolish the ''JONES ACT"  do that and start manufacturing! if vietnam can do it, why not puerto rico ??  Think about it.

flights out can be had but you almost have to go to the airport to do it. Also there is a regular charter leaving that is done through an agent in condado, its $550 which is pricy but doable. JetBlue is running the mst but when you look on line they looked booked for weeks. Because people cant get around well they are missing flights though opening up spots. here is the ink for the charter. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid … &ifg=1