How do you invest in Vietnam real estate?

bizdeals wrote:

Where is the best place to buy real estate at the moment in hcmc for possible greatest appreciation in 3 years time?
Is it land in the outskirts or inner city or along the propose railway lines?

The area near the new train line has already increased greatly. I would look at outlying areas with good access to the city, eg Binh Chanh, Long An, Dong Nai.

there are 6 proposed lines, with line 3A ending near binh chanh, so i think i will start searching there. Binh Chanh and cu chi and gan gio have had good rises in the last 12 months of plus 85%, 130% and 170%.

I would think out near the new international airport might still be good. Who knows though.

Yeah, that probably won't get built till 2025 but that would be a good place for warehousing and land in there has been steadily rising too...

Ya thunk? Even if it is 2025 that is not long when speculating. Your not doing a lot of speculating if you wait for them to hang the signs for the arrival and departure gates. In fact the best time for a speculator is when you have an inside track to city planning. Once they are pooring concrete for the MTS your a tad bit late to the party. But appreciation can still be had.

Vagabondone wrote:

I would think out near the new international airport might still be good. Who knows though.

That area had some very good increases in price when the airport was confirmed. Now it has settled down a bit. There is a proposal to build a bridge from Cat Lai to Nhon Trach, this will create an area that will be easy to access Saigon.

I still have a feeling the govt will claim back all the land at TSN and expand there.

Vagabondone wrote:

Once they are pooring concrete for the MTS your a tad bit late to the party. But appreciation can still be had.

But,but,but.... Delafon told me that it "Will be then to late to do the same for you..."  How can you both be right?   

Probably it is more like we are both wrong. Of course, speculating has that as it very nature. You could be right you could be wrong. My daddy did not bless me with two crystal balls. Just two.

The urbanization rate in vietnam is less than 40% and hcmc is the 2nd fastest growing city in the world after New Dehli, 20million mekong delta rice farmers are waiting to move in...saigon land is as safest as houses...

Biz deals sounds like a VK. Not sure where he gets his data from or what in HCM is growing the fastest e.g population, GDP or what. But it strikes me as a stretch to say that HCM is the fastest growing at just about anything or that it places a close second or third or fourth.

https://www.google.com/search?client=sa … mp;bih=695

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … five-years

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … five-years

Just a slight misunderstanding in your part. You said the world and they speak of Asia. They speak of GDP and you do not specify. Makes sense to me that HCM is right up there in regards to GDP in Asia though.

Marlan123 wrote:

Hi guys

I just went through this forum to get some information !!! , as  I can see many   has experience in vietnam and has a good knowledge re  I assume..

The information I am trying to gather is as below if anyone can point me out on the correct direction it would be nice with the past  experience they had ,and  how they have dealt with it ,it can help many people

Last year I got involved in 2 apartment , I have the purchase agreement/house key , utility bill under my name

But neither one I haven't received any pink book ,
1 does anyone has got a pink book under your name

2 normally how long does it take for you to get it

3 have any developers said they will do it for after 6-8 months ,once all the apt are filled ,is it legitimate...?

4 ,based on what I heard on this thread was a little curious about this scams which are circulating ,can anyone cheat , when sale/purchase cont under a foriegn owner ,interns of the red book

5,what are the exact documents needed to full fill this process at that time hopefully when it comes (let's think positive for a moment)

6, normally after which period of time does the construction company start to process the pink  book application

7 ,how can i sell the apartments with a pending pink book ,if needed ,what kind for obstacles I need to get myself into

8 what is the income tax that the seller need to pay ,which the buy is not willing to pay ,how is the calculation on that ,

9. Also in terms of future does owning an apartment gives you the eligibility for residency visa in vietnam,like some other countries

10 ,what was the list of documents that was used when the application process was done for the red book,and the duration ,

Thanks in advance

1. Pinkbook. Be patient, it will come in due timpe under the name that is in the SPA;

2. 3. LEGITIMATE

4. cheat like everywhere else in the world

5. deposit contract / SPA / pinbook

6. THE DEVELOPPER NOT HEE CONSTRUCTOR STARTS AFTER HANDOVER I BELIEVE

7. NO PB

8. 10%

9. I DO NOT THINK / MARRY WITH A VIET YES / START UR OWN COMP YES


5.

i am just talking up Vietnam real estate and trying to rationalize why i am betting everything i got on it. Speculation here isn't for the faint hearted..but the fundamentals look pretty good. good land and location is in limited supply.

I agree Colinoscapee and Bizdeals regarding the adjacent areas like Binh Chanh or Long An.

However, even there the prices are not anymore that low.
In Long An (areas bordering HCMC) there are very different land prices, depending on whether a road leads to the land (water and electricity available) or not and whether the land has already been rezoned from farmland to building land.
If it is still farmland, it is intricate and you can be not sure if it can be rezoned into building land.
I think you have to build a house (not just resell it to make money) to get a rezoning permit.
And for land rezoning you probably have to wait a long time because a lot of people are rezoning their land at the moment.

I'm sceptical about the Metro. I think the places where the first metro line passes are already too expensive. And if the metro continues with so much delay as before, the last planned line will not be completed before 2040 or later.
First line opening is scheduled for 2019. I never believe in that. I think alone the tests for the train safety system take half a year or more.
In addition, HCMC could financially overstrain itself with the entire Metro (see https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/saigo … 20565.html).
With its protectionism and new punitive tariffs, Trump is about to start a trade war and plunge the world into the next economic crisis.
Then I see no hope for the quick completion of the metro.
By the way, also the current war rhetoric around the planet does not make world peace and economics more stable.

Moreover, I am not sure that the metro in HCMC would bring the desired success. In HCMC there are several motorcycles in every household and the Vietnamese also use it to buy food in the street food stand 10m away (with 2 motorcycles and the whole family). Do you really think these people are gonna walk to the nearest metro station.
Maybe I'm wrong. In Jakarta, the metro seems to be a great success. But it was built at a time when not all the population had motorcycles and cars.
Maybe a Jakarta expert can say more about it.

If it is true that the metro will not be such a big success, or because of a new economic crisis, the other planned metro lines may never or decades later be built.
Then it will be difficult to recover the invested money with profit.

So I think Binh Chan and Long An is a good idea for buying properties.

Also with the conjecture that maybe many Mekong Delta farmers are pushing towards Ho Chi Minh City when their planting areas are no longer cultivatable due to salinated groundwater (due to higher sea levels).

Regarding land purchase in Long An this article is also interesting (my wife found that article, but I don't understand everything):
http://baolongan.vn/long-an-kien-quyet- … 40087.html
It seems to be about merging districts at the border HCMC and Long An, intensified action against illegal land use and land rezoning.
Maybe someone can post an English summary. 


By the way, a good map from the future HCMC metro lines.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mi … 8&z=12

Its true the hcmc transport department couldn't organize a **** in a brothel with a fist full of fifties...but  given the amount of new vehicles coming on the road each day , soon the only way to get across town will be by the rail system.

The master plan does call for 4-5 mini core CBD's spread out across the city so their is less need to make such trips and also 2 ring roads. As slow as the progress is, i do feel that the next 5 years, all the major transport infrastructure will either be in place or started to allow the city to cope with the population and business growth.

There has been a proposal in 2016 for Binh Chanh and Gan gio which are classified as 'huyen' or rural districts to be rezoned as 'quan' or urban districts. This will give a short term boost to property prices in that area and Cu Chi has plans for a large satellite city connected to the district 1 with a freeway.

Ultimately, real estate is determined by supply and demand and bank credit. Long term , connectivity and economic growth in a certain area also play a part.

Binh Chanh seems like a reasonable way for the city to expand but Can Gio is basically a swamp.  I doubt that there is any land there that is more than a few meters above saline ground water.  Building (and buying into) high rise buildings there would be pure folly.

THIGV wrote:

Binh Chanh seems like a reasonable way for the city to expand but Can Gio is basically a swamp.  I doubt that there is any land there that is more than a few meters above saline ground water.  Building (and buying into) high rise buildings there would be pure folly.

Based on the above, I just got a PM from an agent who said that I had said that "Binh Chanh and Can Gio were one of the best choice now."  These fellows never stop pushing blindly forward.  I guess they all have some swampland for sale.

The road to Can Gio is enough to turn most people off.

For your further information.

http://www.keppelland.com.vn/pdf/Guide_ … n_Soft.pdf

Guys, do yourselves a favour and watch out for estate agents claiming not to be estate agents.
These people are proven liars so ask this, can you trust them with your cash?

It is worth noting that Hapiness1988 has been forthright about the fact that that she works in the industry but seems to have scrupulously followed the rules of the forum.

Just curious about investing in real estate

Well there has been a lot said about it on this thread. Happy reading Gwynn Hill

Gwyn Hill wrote:

Just curious about investing in real estate

Hi Gwin,

Just pm me with your questions.

I actually looked at many properties. However, red books can be copied The process is not transparent. You cannot look up property information like you can in western markets
Most are over priced in my opinion for what you get. You will also have to put up with a myriad of external issues.

It's the Vietnamese  version of Russian Roulette. For those, who really do, make sure, the roof is stable enough to carry you in a rope

just an update ....
i bought 13500m2 @2million vnd a m2 in Tan Kien  binh chanh in march 2017, now the neighboring properties are 4-6mil vnd a m2 . The key take aways for me were:

1. take the plunge
2. find a good property lawyer, i didn't have one and it caused alot of fear and confusion. Also if he is always late to meetings or missing deadlines it is a sign he is incompetent and disorganized.
3. their is no mandatory disclosure documents like in more developed legal systems so things like covenants, easements, future highways or railways across your property, specific land use restrictions etc...are now spelled out clearly in one document. I asked the lawyer about these and he gave advice that wasn't 100% correct. So it pays to get a 2nd and 3rd opinion.
4. The seller will ask you to understate the contract price to avoid the tax that has to be paid and normally this is split between the two of you. it ended up being about 300-400mil vnd.
5. The seller needs to pay 1% of the purchase price to the person that introduce the buyer to him, but this is negotiable. The buyer is not obligated to pay anything
6. i thought the local authorities were lax about building permits or I could bribe them when they came around , so i put up a metal building without permits. 250mil vnd mistake.
7. if you can ask for credit terms. I paid 10% deposit and balance in 12 months. this is unusual and normally settlement is either straightaway or 30-90 days max. But the seller was desperate to sell and offered it. Interest rates on non residential land and commercial properties is 11% at the moment so the savings on financing cost is big.
8. Look around, do not buy the first property you see. i spent 6 months looking around.
9. Research - masterplans, talk to agents and land owners in the area, online etc...to find locations with historically strong population and economic growth, and where neighboring districts are very expensive (sooner or later the laws of supply and demand will force up values.
10. have patience

bizdeals wrote:

just an update ....
i bought 13500m2 @2million vnd a m2 in Tan Kien  binh chanh in march 2017, now the neighboring properties are 4-6mil vnd a m2 . The key take aways for me were:

1. take the plunge
2. find a good property lawyer, i didn't have one and it caused alot of fear and confusion. Also if he is always late to meetings or missing deadlines it is a sign he is incompetent and disorganized.
3. their is no mandatory disclosure documents like in more developed legal systems so things like covenants, easements, future highways or railways across your property, specific land use restrictions etc...are now spelled out clearly in one document. I asked the lawyer about these and he gave advice that wasn't 100% correct. So it pays to get a 2nd and 3rd opinion.
4. The seller will ask you to understate the contract price to avoid the tax that has to be paid and normally this is split between the two of you. it ended up being about 300-400mil vnd.
5. The seller needs to pay 1% of the purchase price to the person that introduce the buyer to him, but this is negotiable. The buyer is not obligated to pay anything
6. i thought the local authorities were lax about building permits or I could bribe them when they came around , so i put up a metal building without permits. 250mil vnd mistake.
7. if you can ask for credit terms. I paid 10% deposit and balance in 12 months. this is unusual and normally settlement is either straightaway or 30-90 days max. But the seller was desperate to sell and offered it. Interest rates on non residential land and commercial properties is 11% at the moment so the savings on financing cost is big.
8. Look around, do not buy the first property you see. i spent 6 months looking around.
9. Research - masterplans, talk to agents and land owners in the area, online etc...to find locations with historically strong population and economic growth, and where neighboring districts are very expensive (sooner or later the laws of supply and demand will force up values.
10. have patience

That's pretty accurate.

I personally think an interpreter (and of course and own research) is better than a lawyer.

And to point 3, I can say that the pink books can also include something like "forbidden building area" that take future wider streets into account.
In the pink book could be written under chapter 6 (Ghi chú) e.g. "Thửa đất có xx.xm2 đất nằm trong lộ giới". And in the plot plan there is a marker which shows the future largest possible widening of the road (Ranh lộ giới). So you must build the house outside of this area.

What this can mean can be seen at the parents home of my wife.
A few years ago a small street has now become a wide street with a lot of traffic. Especially the street is about 1m higher than before, so that they sometimes have water in the house when it rains heavily.
So build the house at least on a 1m high plinth.

bizdeals wrote:

just an update ....
i bought 13500m2 @2million vnd a m2 in Tan Kien  binh chanh in march 2017, now the neighboring properties are 4-6mil vnd a m2 . The key take aways for me were:

1. take the plunge
2. find a good property lawyer, i didn't have one and it caused alot of fear and confusion. Also if he is always late to meetings or missing deadlines it is a sign he is incompetent and disorganized.
3. their is no mandatory disclosure documents like in more developed legal systems so things like covenants, easements, future highways or railways across your property, specific land use restrictions etc...are now spelled out clearly in one document. I asked the lawyer about these and he gave advice that wasn't 100% correct. So it pays to get a 2nd and 3rd opinion.
4. The seller will ask you to understate the contract price to avoid the tax that has to be paid and normally this is split between the two of you. it ended up being about 300-400mil vnd.
5. The seller needs to pay 1% of the purchase price to the person that introduce the buyer to him, but this is negotiable. The buyer is not obligated to pay anything
6. i thought the local authorities were lax about building permits or I could bribe them when they came around , so i put up a metal building without permits. 250mil vnd mistake.
7. if you can ask for credit terms. I paid 10% deposit and balance in 12 months. this is unusual and normally settlement is either straightaway or 30-90 days max. But the seller was desperate to sell and offered it. Interest rates on non residential land and commercial properties is 11% at the moment so the savings on financing cost is big.
8. Look around, do not buy the first property you see. i spent 6 months looking around.
9. Research - masterplans, talk to agents and land owners in the area, online etc...to find locations with historically strong population and economic growth, and where neighboring districts are very expensive (sooner or later the laws of supply and demand will force up values.
10. have patience

Did you pay by the sqmt or by the lineal metre frontage. If by the sqmt, thats around 27 billion vnd.

It's always the sqm.

square meter. Around that area everything was quoted on m2, but in long an with some paddy fields some sellers were pricing based on lineal meter.

"paddy fields" aint an investment, unless you are sure, someone wants to build a huge project there soon.
I also doubt, that they are 'private" owned. This more like lease for purpose/usage right and someone maybe handing over his right.
I would not even consider such place at all, if longer than a couple of nights camping

bizdeals wrote:

square meter. Around that area everything was quoted on m2, but in long an with some paddy fields some sellers were pricing based on lineal meter.

Are the rice fields a standard length?  If not the differences could be huge.  Perhaps the fields are actually valued based on productivity records kept at the co-p.

square meter. Around that area everything was quoted on m2, but in long an with some paddy fields some sellers were pricing based on lineal meter.

I also learnt that Vietnamese ideas of property values is not rational or based on established metrics elsewhere ie. rates of return, etc..

Many will price a property based on :

1. what others in the area or their neighbors are asking even though alot of the time this is not realistic given economic fundamentals (herd mentality),

2. If they have spent 10 plus years acquiring the property , getting it rezoned, paying off the corrupt officials, preparing the property for development , they want to be rewarded for that and this is factored into the price.  (factored in bureaucratic cost)

The oldest trick in the book is to buy farmland on the outskirts of the city, get it rezoned and lobby the government to build a road or railway nearby. $1 becomes $100.

It' good now with fast growth and high rate. Specially in Ho Chi Minh city. All policy documents you can count on broker.
I think it's good for investing real estate in Vietnam, it will become a dreamland, but you should work with a big company and ask your friends in here!

Someone help me explain this and if I'm wrong please correct me.

Lets say DELAFON who's been through the process of buying decided to sell his apartment in 10 years time. His Vietnamese neighbour also sold an identical unit at the same time.

A foreigner with money wants to buy a resale unit. The foreigner gets 40 years lease left if they buy from DELAFON who is another foreigner.  They get a 50 year lease from a Vietnamese national who had a longer if not freehold lease.

From whom would the foreigner prefer to buy a unit from?

if that's not how it works then my apologies... this is how they limit the resale market for foreigners and rig it in favour of vietnamese leaseholders.