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Is Hungary really in a state of emergency?

Saw the news this morning,
It said Hungary as declared a state of emergency because of immigration issues with the boarders.
What is the local scoop on this?

Marilyn Tassy :

Saw the news this morning,
It said Hungary as declared a state of emergency because of immigration issues with the boarders.
What is the local scoop on this?

Mrs Fluffy mentioned this to me yesterday.  As far as I know, nothing much has changed  It's not a state of emergency - just more of the same.

Personally I suspect it's being used as a device so that there's no need to comply with any deal the EU puts up in Turkey.  HU government already said it objected to mandatory quotas for refugees.  The border in Macedonia is currently the most likely place for a flashpoint. I wouldn't be surprised if the refugees simply charged the border fence and tore it down and then made a dash further up.  Even if they did they would still need to pass through Serbia.  I read a report the other day that the fence built at a cost of EUR 70M was proving ineffective.  The refugees have simply cut holes or climb over and the HU border guards are insufficient to stop them.  The prisons apparently are now full up with refugees criminalised for crossing the border illegally.  It's hardly a deterrent.   Unsurprisingly most of these refugee type plans the EU proposes are illegal under the UN Conventions.

Thanks for the quick reply.
We are used to seeing tons of illegals in the US from South of us.
They usually keep a low profile and don't cause allot of trouble for locals.
Not exactly fair to those waiting to get into the US legally.
My 2 DIL's both had to wait and pay through the nose to get into the US even after they were legally married to my son.
One from Hungary and one from Japan.
I know my husband lived for 10 month in a refugee camp in Italy in 1971, then in Sweden in a camp like area, he was grateful for all help and didn't make waves.
Of course the numbers coming out of Hungary were not that high.
I know he had to clear interpol before being allowed out of Italy.
He was also in high demand by many countries, Germany, Sweden  all of of western Europe, S, Africa,S. America, America and Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the whole world really.
The papers from the US came in first so that's how he found himself in the states.
Those days are over.
They had him view films on everyday life in each country and had reps come into the camp to try and get him to immigrate to their country.
He was young, had energy and skills that were needed back then. Good ol' Hungarian machine school training for 4 years.
Guess most of these new refugees don't fit the bill for most countries.
I know the welfare offices in the US give allot of benefits to even illegals as long as they have children, and boy they have those in large numbers.
Free rent, free medical, free food and special clinics for all sorts of aid.Most citizens don't even get all of those benefits.
Many collect aid and work under the table too, so many brand new trucks on the roads makes one wonder...
No wonder a tiny country like Hungary has no need to support more low income people.

Marilyn Tassy :

We are used to seeing tons of illegals in the US from South of us.
They usually keep a low profile and don't cause allot of trouble for locals.
Not exactly fair to those waiting to get into the US legally. Guess most of these new refugees don't fit the bill for most countries...
Free rent, free medical, free food and special clinics for all sorts of aid.Most citizens don't even get all of those benefits....No wonder a tiny country like Hungary has no need to support more low income people.

Let's distinguish between economic migrants and refugees.  Economic migrants are in the main those on the  US southern border.  No doubt there are some of those coming via Greece and up through the Balkans.   Refugees are fleeing war.  Under the UN Conventions refugees must be looked after at a place of safety.  No-one in their right mind would want to hang around in a war zone.

I have some personal insight into Syria having lived there on and off for a year a couple of years before the war.  It was safe. I could go anywhere without any problem, The historic sights were incredibly interesting - now all destroyed by IS. Syrians (and all Middle Eastern people) love kids.  Even Mrs Fluffy and a very young Fluffyette were there with me.  Direct flights from Budapest on Malev too!

It would be wrong to think that say, Syrians or Iraqis do not have skills that could be utilised.  Syria was a middle income country prior to the war and most people were getting along fine and had no plans to rush over to Europe to live in dire conditions.   Many Syrians are also very well educated and given opportunity, very industrious.  Their government was oppressive but it was secular  government and it was possible to survive in the system.  There was opportunity to travel - for example to Turkey and North Cyprus.  Many educated Syrians are taught abroad - at universities in the US, UK etc - and speak excellent English. One only has to see refugees speaking in interviews to see that.

The demonisation of the refugees and economic migrants is based on cultural norms rather than any real economic threat to a country.  The volumes are a perceived problem but if countries stepped up properly then it would not be a problem at all.  Even Mexico is taking Syrians.  Culturally, one or two generations and the cultural differences will disappear.  Even Steve Jobs was the biological kid of a Syrian and look how much he contributed.

I hate to say it but the policies of the main powers (USA, UK etc) in the region were totally wrong and anyone with basic knowledge of the country would have seen it would been a lot less costly to negotiate with Assad to ease him and his followers out over some years.  From what I saw Assad was receiving plenty of support from China - Chinese buses, cars, telecoms.

I am sure many people have different valuable skills, however in today"s world skills don't seem to matter much.
My husband was wanted because of his machine skills, these days no one even knows what a trained machinist can do, computers do it all.
So many skilled people out of work all over the world now.
In fact the US gov. didn't pay out a penny to bring my husband to the US, a group of manufacturers paid his way, set him up in a sleazy hotel for 2 weeks and within just 2 weeks in the US he landed a machining job and was paying taxes, couldn't speak more then 3 words of English back then but was carrying his own weight.

Marilyn Tassy :

I am sure many people have different valuable skills, however in today"s world skills don't seem to matter much.
My husband was wanted because of his machine skills, these days no one even knows what a trained machinist can do, computers do it all.... just 2 weeks in the US he landed a machining job and was paying taxes, couldn't speak more then 3 words of English back then but was carrying his own weight.

There's a shed load of cardiologists, surgeons, engineers, teachers, gardeners, painters and what have you hanging about in refugee camps.  They are NOT allowed to work but would be very keen to pay their way given the opportunity.

In the UK, we have a huge shortage of medical doctors, nurses and every other skill required.  Some things just cannot be done by machines.

fluffy2560 :

In the UK, we have a huge shortage of medical doctors, nurses and every other skill required.  Some things just cannot be done by machines.

When I still lived in the USA, I knew someone who was a registered nurse (RN). In the hospital where she worked there were nurses with RN degrees from the Philippines. But because they did not have an "American" RN degree, they were delegated to the role of "nurse helpers" (which included less pay, fewer rights). Yet the RN I knew said the nurses from the Philippines knew more, and were far better nurses, than the American trained RNs.

Which just goes to show that nationalistic, protectionist, fear driven stupidity from politicians, and the laws they make, in the end really just ends up hurting those people in the country the politicians that spew such rhetoric are claiming they are "helping".

Who are 'the boarders' you mention? Foreign students living in Hungary? (lol!) :)

State of Emergency, my ....! Pure party politics, but Mrs Merkel and the EU Schengen countries, including Hungary, need to reach a common agreement on the Migration crisis pretty soon. Otherwise, we may as well give up on the work of the last 25 years, go home, and leave Putin to carve up what's left of central-eastern Europe.

I know many people probably think Las Vegas casino dealers are uneducated, only slick movers and talkers.
Not so, I can not even tell you how many were doctors in China, engineers from Iran or vets in Europe.
I was in good company, all over educated people then we also had a few under achievers such as myself.( Hate to say it, typical of my generation, easy life if born in the US as an attractive white women, no brain power needed, not so now but can't go backwards)
I also worked with at least 3 Hungarians, they were excellent dealers, very fast with the numbers and very good with the customers.
I know they had all been to college in Hungary but were spinning the big wheel and letting the dice roll all to make their rent.
Back in NY in the early 1970's when my husband arrived in the US from HU there were many who had been to colleges in Hungary but couldn't even find a fast food job in the US.
There skills and time in college didn't amount to much in the US.
My husband was lucky because he had a skill that required no speaking just good hands and a good brain.
He literally gave shelter in his flat to many newbie Hungarians who couldn't find or keep a job, he had people sleeping on his floor and even shared his bed with a few girls( now get your mind out of the gutter... just friends) All their formal education didn't help at all in the US.On the other hand some who had not had a chance to go to higher education in HU went on the UCLA and other top universities in the US all on student loans.
One guy we knew spoke some English while in school in Hungary, he went on to UCLA and was a student teacher in English for American students. He was one smart guy that knew English inside and out.
Some people we introduced into the wholesale jewelry business, hooked them up with buyers etc. Those guys are super wealthy now in Calif. Husband could of done the same but not much of a salesman.
Sometimes I wish my husband or I were better talkers and shakers, most of those guys who never had a chance in Hungary did very well for themselves in the US doing sales.
Never know we also know a couple of people who moved back to HU from the US when Hungary was still communist. They couldn't handle the American fast pace ,missed HU too much.
None were put in jail as they were told would happen to them, one got a simple job in HU as a gas man reading meters.
One country guy from Szeged a trained blacksmith made allot of money with his smithing skills in S. Calif making fences for large estates. probably would not of gotten that chance in HU in his lifetime.
Husband probably could still run a high speed lathe in Europe and make a couple of bucks on the side but because he started working at age 14, he is done, worst thing to him is thinking he would die while machining rather go out in style then wearing work boots.
One thing he would love to do however is to teach the right person his trade, not many people want to seriously learn a trade that takes years to learn and doesn't make one a million bucks.
Too bad there isn't much demand for part-time skilled tradesmen as teachers these days.
Tried teaching our son but no way, he just isn't made out of the right stuff for that field.

Re read my post, sounded slightly arrogant so I will try to clear up any misunderstanding.
I find it interesting to compare  people of different countries sometimes.
Being a child of the 1950's raised in average American family and people I know of my generation who were raised somewhere else, such as in Hungary.
As it was World Women's Day this week this seems like a decent topic.
Most but not all women of my time in the US were not overly encouraged to be good in school, just being pretty, clean and a good citizen was enough.
My friends from HU were expected to do well in school just like any boy.
I was raised in the time where if you came from a good family your mother usually didn't work, or just worked as a little hobby.
My own sister had an IQ of over 145, never went to college either, ran an office for some CPA's , actually ran it but never saw the big bucks.
She also modeled,was in GQ men's mag in her youth, thought it was lame to model so quit, was more encouraged to model then to go to higher education.
I met my 2nd cousins raised in Hungary and in Poland, just around my age.
One is a doctor and the other a teacher and runs a part-time tour service with her husband.
Same family just raised in a culture where women didn't get by just on their looks.
Had several school mates that were straight A students and skipped levels, Only one went on to college the smartest of us all cleans homes for a living. I asked her why 2 years ago, she said no one told her to go to college, not expected of her.

It is interesting to me to see how much society can change one's whole life.
I know my own mother used to tell us to put down a silly book and learn how to iron or make a pie crust.( Very important if one wants a husband... bla bla bla used to hear that a wife should never be smarter then her husband is, if so don't let them know it)
Well, I still iron badly and my pie crust falls apart.
Should of gone to college like my cousins.
I think it is exciting that the world is changing and the internet has opened up so much for everyone.
I know most of the Hungarians we know were way ahead of most Americans we knew as far as seeing and acting on opportunities available in the US. Most Americans could not see right was right in front of them.
Almost every HU we know in the US opened their own business or landed some sort of great job just by being willing to put in a few more hours of work,

Marilyn Tassy :

I know many people probably think Las Vegas casino dealers are uneducated, only slick movers and talkers.

I have known a few dealers. Never had that impression.

I am of the view that those who have an opinion without any real direct first person experience on the topic, really do not count.

klsallee :

..... were nurses with RN degrees from the Philippines. But because they did not have an "American" RN degree, they were delegated to the role of "nurse helpers" (which included less pay, fewer rights). Yet the RN I knew said the nurses from the Philippines knew more, and were far better nurses, than the American trained RNs.

Just a quick note on this.  In the UK, my mother had her heart valve repaired and the majority of the nurses were Filipinos on contract.  Somewhat oddly, some of them were MDs as well but as they were not allowed to practice in hospitals in Europe and so obtained a nursing certificate and kept quiet about their MD degrees.   They also did other things like eye screening, ultrasounds, EKGs and all these kinds of support services.  They were paid just the same as the UK nurses which is a huge amount more than they would get back in the Philippines.

So the RNs might actually have been MDs working on the quiet (as RNs, not MDs).

fluffy2560 :

Just a quick note on this.  In the UK, my mother had her heart valve repaired and the majority of the nurses were Filipinos on contract.  Somewhat oddly, some of them were MDs as well but as they were not allowed to practice in hospitals in Europe and so obtained a nursing certificate and kept quiet about their MD degrees.   They also did other things like eye screening, ultrasounds, EKGs and all these kinds of support services.  They were paid just the same as the UK nurses which is a huge amount more than they would get back in the Philippines.

So the RNs might actually have been MDs working on the quiet (as RNs, not MDs).

No, they really were RNs.

But after reading this, all I can say is: really terrible how the UK treats Filipino MDs. And sort of proves my main point.

FWIIW (for what it is worth), both of my wife's parents are MDs and even when they "escaped" from Hungary before the wall fell to Western Europe, while their Hungarian MD degrees were not fully accepted, at least they were allowed to work as physician assistants until they passed the required tests to classify themselves as full MDs in the west. They were at no time required to downgraded themselves to "nurse" status to get a job at a hospital.

I am sorry, and I really and truly mean no personal disrespect, especially since I know you are a UK citizen, but reading things like that does leave me thinking that UK society is kind of xenophobic and sick in its own way.

P.S. Yes, I know, I know.... Being an American citizen myself, you can easily trump me with such commentary about the UK with critiques about the USA with.... Trump*.  :(

* and Cruz and Rubio.....

I really do not know much about the UK and society there, only what I have heard from some UK friends and from what my elder sister told me, She lived in the UK and was married to a UK citizen.
Worked for a major tv news dept.
Not sure if it was NBC or ABC news with Peter Jennings, back in the 1970's.
She lived and worked in London for nearly 10 years.
She is American.
She loved living there for the most part, only thing she found odd was from what she observed was that way people seemed to still hold on to their classes.
No matter what one did to improve themselves, go to college, work hard open their own business they were still looked down on by those of a higher class.Even people who never did a thing with their lives thought they were more deserving just because they were related generations ago by "someone".
Some people she worked with at the studio just were handed jobs because of their family, she went to college in the US and landed that good job by hard work and skills.
She always felt she was under pressure as an outsider from the US who was a nobody.
The nice thing in the US is people judge by what you have done with yourself and no one asks who you are related to only have to be yourself and do your best, family does not matter, no one cares where you came from only what you have done with your own life.
I know my husband said when he first arrived in the US he would go to Hungarian gathering just because everyone felt comfortable speaking Hungarian as newbies in the US.
Some of the older people were in the US since 1956.
Some were from "old families" in Hungary and they would greet each other by their former titles.
He said it was really weird to hear people address each other as  your this or your that.
He also came from an "old family" but because of the time he was born and the gov. policies about being a "royal or blue blood" he was never told anything about his family background as he grew up, his dad knew to keep it quiet and secret from his children , otherwise the whole family would be in a re education camp.Or swinging from a tree.
Means nothing to my husband what he old relations did or who they had been, he only knew being working class and being poor in Hungary.
He thinks the way he was raised is more natural and better, people make something of themselves by their own hand not by what was given to them or what was taken by their family in the past.
Just what I have heard, not my own experience, I think though with modern times people getting by on their names alone is a thing of the past.
Good thing too, some of us had "Black Sheep" in the family, would hate to be held by my name alone.
Just for fun for a short season my husband who is retired and had the time to do some lite research did explore his family roots.
We mentioned it to a couple of HU friends who were more into knowing the details then my husband was. Sort of snobby on their part. Sort of got the vibe they were judging him by his family name.
Weird stuff.
He stopped his research after a bit just thought it didn't matter had nothing at all to do with his reality in the here and now.
The only thing he got out of his studies was that his family were well off and often had allot of pressure to uphold   things to the crown. They were asked to do allot of public duties and take charge of issues in the name of the crown, some were doctors to the crown, some in church service , some did land management and one was a acting King  ( Viceroy) way way back just meant they had a good name and not to dishonor themselves, interesting but that doesn't buy one even a cup of coffee, these days no one cares.
The only really interesting thing we would like to know is from a letter in the National Archives in Budapest. There seems to be a sealed letter, sealing wax and all from one King address to one of my husbands long ago relations. Never opened up, would be fun to know what that was all about, just curious.Some sort of national treasure that is filed away.
I think the blue bloods were a bit insane, had to be intermarriages and all.

Marilyn Tassy :

She lived and worked in London for nearly 10 years.
......
She loved living there for the most part, only thing she found odd was from what she observed was that way people seemed to still hold on to their classes.

I was in the UK once at a conference as a business display vendor.

The head organizer of the event came over and started to deeply apologize to me. I had no idea why.

It turned out they simply gave me the wrong table. It was "no problem" to me, but to them it was a major breach of etiquette. I tried to put them at ease by saying I thought it was all going to be a real big issue, such as my not having black tie dress cloths for the reception dinner....   :)

Marilyn Tassy :

The nice thing in the US is people judge by what you have done with yourself and no one asks who you are related to only have to be yourself and do your best, family does not matter, no one cares where you came from only what you have done with your own life.....

He also came from an "old family" but because of the time he was born and the gov. policies about being a "royal or blue blood" he was never told anything about his family background as he grew up, he dad knew to keep it quiet and secret from his children , otherwise the whole family would be in a re education camp.
Means nothing to my husband what he old relations did or who they had been, he only knew being working class and being poor in Hungary.

I found out only after I married my wife that she actually is a Baroness. Historical title only (even if those were done away with). No money or land... darn it.....  :mad:

I know, no goody bag through marriage for us!!
All good though, don't have to have high standards to live by...
Husband only found out about his family roots when he was in his 30's. Someone had brought out a rare very old document written on fine dog skin, hench the term, dog tags. Dusted it off from it's hiding place.
Had stamps etc. from the crown stating their "title"
You know just about everyone I meet in Hungary says they are from some old family or the other, makes me wonder if there were any real farm hands at all back in the day...
Even my father from some tiny mountain village in SE Poland had documents that his mom brought to the US with her when they came over in the 1920's.
Stated something about my father inheriting  the title of Mayor.
My step- mom tossed them out one day with her spring cleaning, my dad went through the roof was so angry with her , not worth a thing at the time when Poland was still communist during my father's lifetime.
We looked up the family motto and crest, filed it somewhere for future generations but really who cares these days about such things, unless there is some money behind it.
My FIL did grow up in a huge house with servants and had his own car in his youth, last of the money was gone before the war.
All they had left was their "good name".
Sort of do believe it as later in the 1980's my husbands niece had a ex boyfriend who's grandparents had been my FIL's servants, made for issue in their relationship, odd stuff.
Communists dragged my FIL to the police station to force him to change the last name spelling, he proved  they didn't just buy it in the middle ages but had it from forever, they got to keep the spelling without changes.
His parents divorced because my FIL still was in a dream world even after the war, he couldn't go to work, his wife had set him up even in Commie times with his own small shop, he was always closed for the day and spent his time at a Gentle mans' Club, not the sort you find in Vegas but a men's only club where they drank fine wines and spent the day reading the papers .Hard to believe some were still around post WW11.
MIL was killing herself working to take care of 3 kids and a lazy spoiled husband, he had to go.
He was a trippy guy, when I met him he still was using silk robes and in another world of his own.
Became a pro long distance driver just to be free of real work, loved it when he had to stay over in hotels for his driving job.
My MIL was of working stock thankfully someone had to carry the load.
I always wondered how they ever met pre WW11 from 2 different worlds, my MIL was a red haired tall beauty in her day  with 8 yes 8 older brothers while my FIL was a tiny little strange person.
He must of meet her brothers standards at the time, can't imagine having 8 brothers approve ones date.
No such issues in my family on mom's side, oh forgot probably someone was a Native Princess, everyone has to be someone! No really just very average people, no high standards to live up to.
We were the servants!!
My sister almost bought into the whole class thing when she was invited to the Queens High Tea for her job. She has always been the "snob" in the family used to make us all follow her miss manners at the table, her wedding had to be just so etc. These days however at age 68 she hunts, rides a motorcycle and is a 4 x divorcee ,just one of those old ladies with her dogs.

klsallee :

.....

But after reading this, all I can say is: really terrible how the UK treats Filipino MDs. And sort of proves my main point..... they were allowed to work as physician assistants until they passed the required tests to classify themselves as full MDs in the west. They were at no time required to downgraded themselves to "nurse" status to get a job at a hospital.
.......

I don't want to give a wrong impression that somehow these MDs were treated badly. They were not hired as MDs but RNs.  In most cases, the hospitals (or specifically the NHS - National Health Service) were not even aware they were MDs as the authorities were only told they were RNs. This was in order to get around the immigration restrictions as they were not hiring MDs and they were not immigrants, just guest workers (like the Turkish in Germany are "gastarbeiters").   So to get the job, they had to shorten their qualifications and possess an RN certificate which I believe for MDs is an easy thing to do. 

They were brought en-masse into the country so the checking was done by contractors, not by government officials.  As a system it worked really quite well.  Nursing is very much in demand as a profession and as it's government funded, the temporary workers all get exactly the same salaries as local workers.   Compared to Philippines salaries this is a great offer for even MDs (ok, it's not doctoring but it is medical experience).  No harm done to anyone.

There are no positions as physician assistants as such in that hierarchy and no mechanism for mutual recognition of MD qualifications from Asia.  It's different in Europe where there's mutual MD recognition. I think also MDs from Australia and NZ are mutually recognised.  Most other doctors have to pass through a standard training programme to be registered as MDs in the UK just the same as they would as in the USA.  I believe it's less about qualifications from places like South Africa, Canada, USA etc and more about insurance liability.

I have heard it's changing with technicians now able to obtain degrees like medical radiography, phlebotomy etc and carry out tasks normally associated with RNs and MDs.  But still no physician assistants I'm afraid as far as I know.

fluffy2560 :

No harm done to anyone.

One may call it mutually "beneficial", in that the UK gets nurses and Filipinos get to work for wages they would not otherwise get in the Philippines.

But to say that no harm was done to anyone, when a qualified MD has to be reduced to working as an a nurse, simply for money, is somewhat ridiculous. Someone can swallow their pride to do what they have to do to survive, but that does not mean they were not personally, emotionally, or psychologically harmed in having to make that decision.

Not to even mention the damage to a patient who has an MD standing over them when they go into some critical, time sensitive arrest, but that trained MD can not immediately oder and administer what they know would stop that arrest, if such measures fall only into the MD rights (as is true for administering many drugs, as just one example), simply because they are "classified" as a nurse in that country.

My wife's father a trained MD, was for example, at first delegated to "just" transport patients from the ambulance into the hospital. He refused to do this after a short period because, as am MD, the rules for this job violated his Hippocratic oath, as he could not provide the needed assistance to patients they needed even during that short trip.

No way around it: it is clearly a problem.

klsallee :

.....

.....Not to even mention the damage to a patient who has an MD standing over them when they go into some critical, time sensitive arrest, but that trained MD can not immediately oder and administer what they know would stop that arrest, if such measures fall only into the MD rights (as is true for administering many drugs, as just one example), simply because they are "classified" as a nurse in that country....

Well, it's only same in the USA and not unusual.   

They might be MDs but they are not licensed to practice in the UK only in the Philippines.  It's not about stating their competence as such but about assigning liability.  MDs would not be able to get insurance to (mal-)practice medicine if their qualifications are not recognised as being to standard.  Hence the idea of "board certified" medics.   

I am sure your FIL could only practice when he became board certified and could be insured.  If a patient died due to an unauthorised intervention (i.e. not excused by a good Samaritan act) the liability would inevitably fall on the "errant" employee and the employer.  If the patient survived, there would still be a case to answer of course.

In the UK, all the public hospitals and doctors are employed by the NHS.   They regularly get sued for messing things up BUT they and the employees are insured as they must be.   If you really want to get into it, check out "Crown Immunity" and its implications.   

There's a bit of a culture of negligence cases for accident and injury going on in the UK.  People are paralysed mostly with fear over involvement in case they get sued.

Does anyone know of any patients rights in Hungary?
Any recourse for injury done by medical staff?
I heard personal injury cases are not taken seriously in HUngary if at all.
Is this true?
Was told that if one gets hit by a car even on a walk sign in a crosswalk they have little to no case against the driver who hit them.
Might be lucky to get $300. for injuries.
I know if the personal injury laws were updated in Hungary the lawyers would have a field day, courts would be back logged for ages and many false claims would have to be investigated , wasting everyone's time.
My sister's ex was a personal injury attorney in S. Cal.
I also know back in the 1970's so many Hungarians in Cal. were making "auto accidents" that the FBI got involved to find out why so many people from Hungary were having accidents, not because they couldn't drive, because there was easy money in false claims.
Of course not all were false but enough to bring in the FBI.
Staged accidents etc.

Marilyn Tassy :

Does anyone know of any patients rights in Hungary?
Any recourse for injury done by medical staff?
I heard personal injury cases are not taken seriously in Hungary if at all.
...

I think they are zero.  The medical professionals will close ranks. 

Mrs Fluffy's uncle was allegedly done in by incompetence. As far I know the Professor who as due to do his heart operation left it to his underlings who when sowing up a major artery, did not put enough stitches in.  Consequently his blood vessel burst and he was dead.  Professor was at home.

I think for motor accidents there's a minimum 3rd party liability under European law which works everywhere.  It means if the driver is negligent and crashes into another car, then the driver of the other car can claim for his/her injuries against the negligent driver's insurance company.

This was a fairly interesting web site (covers also the Topic subject):

Meanwhile in Budapest

A .com web site. Registered in the USA by "WILD WEST DOMAINS, LLC", which is an Arizona (USA) company. Do note, to get a .hu domain you you have to have a Hungarian address.

I am always suspect why Americans are so interested in Hungary. Mostly those that are seem to be USA libertarian organizations which support the DK party.

Which is fine, if you are a libertarian.

But that just shows, like I said already and elsewhere, most sites about Hungary (especially those in English) are politically biased.

I think the whole of europe is in a state of emergency even though europe do not realise it yet. By letting all the immigrans in europe is opening a door it will not be able to close again. Europe will change forever and not necessarily change for good from the looks of things.

Jennifer_BudaVar1014 :

I think the whole of europe is in a state of emergency even though europe do not realise it yet. By letting all the immigrans in europe is opening a door it will not be able to close again. Europe will change forever and not necessarily change for good from the looks of things.

Europe does not let in all immigrants. That is a fallacy.

But, all expats by definition are immigrants.

Thus, do you realize all of us, all immigrants at expat.com, with our vast variety of different nationalities, cultures, ideologies and world views that may affect Europe, including yourself, are then apparently also included, in mass, in your current prophesy?   ;)

klsallee :

But, all expats by definition are immigrants...

I don't think we are unless we intend to  stay.  Otherwise we're just visitors.  Sounds like semantics but I would say, immigrant=intention to stay permanently, expats=temporary visitor (however long temporary is).

fluffy2560 :
klsallee :

But, all expats by definition are immigrants...

I don't think we are unless we intend to  stay.  Otherwise we're just visitors.  Sounds like semantics but I would say, immigrant=intention to stay permanently, expats=temporary visitor (however long temporary is).

Wikipedia definition of Immigrant (and do be aware of all the "or"s there included in the definition):

Immigration is the international movement of people into a destination country of which they are not natives or where they do not possess citizenship in order to settle or reside there, especially as permanent residents or naturalized citizens, or to take-up employment as a migrant worker or temporarily as a foreign worker.

Considering all the "or"s (especially the rather broad first pre-"or" definition which mentions nothing about "staying"), I have yet to meet an Expat that does not meet this criteria, and even then all expats still fall within the second or third criteria, else they are not expats, but merely tourists. So the point is mute. But, of course, if you do not agree, feel free to log in at wikipedia.org an try to edit it.  :)

"Otherwise we're just visitors.  Sounds like semantics but I would say, immigrant=intention to stay permanently, expats=temporary visitor (however long temporary "

I think that is quite a good description. I also like to use the term  incomer. Although I feel very settled here I still like to travel and keep an open mind so everywhere is temporary. I also like to think of my home here as a holiday home even though I have owned it for over five years.
Both of my parents moved around a lot for economic and social reasons. I was born in the UK and have lived there for most of my life and I imagine I would like to live there when I am elderly.

My cousin who is a bit more native American by blood then I am always loves to post about all US   citizens other then Natives as being illegal immigrants.
Even after over 400 years, she can't let it go.
I do feel badly at times because my intention when first thinking of living with my Hungarian husband in Hungary was to respect the locals by learning to speak more Hungarian.
I over the past 11 years found that at least in Budapest, everytime I even try to speak my limited Hungarian a Hungarian will start speaking English to me.
Even just yesterday in the shop a elderly Hungarian man was talking to me about one of my fave subjects, beer and wine.
He was well in his mid 70's but spoke perfect English.
I was a bit surprised as his Eng. was better then many younger native HU speakers.
He didn't seem like a person who had lived outside of HU in their lifetime either.
Makes me feel sometimes a bit dumb for not getting my language skills at a higher level.
Day by day, I seem to forget more of the Hungarian that I used to know and we are in the heart of the city.
I feel in another few decades not many people will be speaking HUngarian much, perhaps only at home with their families.
I know my father spoke a dialect of Russian/ Polish in the home but in his later life he only spoke it with his siblings for fun.
He and my step-dad would speak a form of Slav together just to keep their brains working.

Marilyn Tassy :

I over the past 11 years found that at least in Budapest, everytime I even try to speak my limited Hungarian a Hungarian will start speaking English to me.

For me, at least, it is because of accent.

I finally realized, that nobody can understand me if I try to speak Hungarian, because of my USA accent. It is just too unusual.

Nothing new for me actually. I once knew a field crew in SE Asia that I was training, who could not understand me because even though they spoke English, they only understood the New Zealand accent of their boss, not my American accent. Their boss, who was also in my training seminar, literally had to "translate" from "American English" to "New Zealand English".

I thought this was going to be about the cold weather as a lot of people have already frozen to death in their homes. My little corner of Hungary is certainly in a state of emergency. Today I have had to clear up flooding first in my kitchen then later in my bathroom. I had got back from about 3 weeks in Croatia yesterday to find all the pipes frozen. When they did finally thaw out, 2 fittings failed, my expensive thermostatic shower / bath mixer valve and a stopcock I had fitted in the supply line to the kitchen. The water had been left turned off at the stopcock underground  near my boundary fence but I think I should have left all the other taps turned on. I tried to go to town to buy bottles of water and plumbing stuff but the car would not start. In Croatia I keep the car in the garage but in Hungary it stands outside.
It does not help that I'm suffering from a very bad cold which I've had for about 3 weeks.

I think any severe cold or severe heat provokes some state emergency action.  In the uk certain people will be paid severe weather payments.  The elderly are at risk of hyperthermia and extra support towards the cost of heating was developed to address this.  In Budapest there is some kind of organisation collecting and  taking street vagrants to the shelters. Also there seem to be more voluntary activities supporting this.
One year my water tank split and a few years ago a pipe burst inside the bathroom wall.
I suppose we have otherwise become used to much milder winters so this cold spell is a bit of a shock.

fidobsa :

I thought this was going to be about the cold weather as a lot of people have already frozen to death in their homes. My little corner of Hungary is certainly in a state of emergency. Today I have had to clear up flooding first in my kitchen then later in my bathroom. I had got back from about 3 weeks in Croatia yesterday to find all the pipes frozen. When they did finally thaw out, 2 fittings failed, my expensive thermostatic shower / bath mixer valve and a stopcock I had fitted in the supply line to the kitchen. The water had been left turned off at the stopcock underground  near my boundary fence but I think I should have left all the other taps turned on. I tried to go to town to buy bottles of water and plumbing stuff but the car would not start. In Croatia I keep the car in the garage but in Hungary it stands outside.
It does not help that I'm suffering from a very bad cold which I've had for about 3 weeks.

Sounds like plumbing problems of the nightmare kind.  Just last week our underground valve split and broke and the manhole was full of water. Plumbers fixed the valve after emptying the hole using buckets. However, they found the meter had been destroyed.  So the water company came the next day and replaced the meter.  We were number 3 on a list of 38 properties for that crew to visit that day.   

Apparently you turn off your water, wrap your pipes in thick insulation blankets (polystyrene is not enough).  Then you open all the taps to empty the pipes and fittings so there's less chance of them breaking through ice.

We used a windscreen insulation cover for a car as the insulating blanket.  Seems to be working well.

-16c here again this morning. :(

fidobsa :

-16c here again this morning. :(

Terrible.  It's the same all over central Europe.  People are dying.  I saw in Budapest, some workers checking on the homeless as they could (and do) freeze to death in this kind of weather.  Weather forecast doesn't really show any let up for quite a while.  3 weeks and it'll be much better.  In the middle of Feb once, it was about 20 C.  Roll on Feb.

Sounds like a nightmare, sorry Fidosba!
Sorry for any plumbing issues to all.
Sad to see people sleeping on mats under the subways but there are plenty of homeless shelters all over the city which have warm up room 24 hours a day. They also serve hot food and tea.
No booze allowed however, think that is the major reason these street sleepers don't go indoors.
I seem horrible but my younger half-sis was homeless for 5 yeaers in Cal. She made my bro promise not to tell me, besides I was here in Hungary most of that time.
She had a full time job and a husband who she left for a homeless man. They slept in her new car at night. She found churches to wash up and they ate out everynight.
She got fat because of the junk food dinners.
She worked hard but her alcoholic "lover" out right refused to even look for a job.
I finally did find out about this situation one visit to the US. We drove to Cal to try to get her head on straight and find out what was up with this messy lifestyle.
Her boyfriend refused for hours to come indoors and met me because the word was out that I was madder then a hatter at him.
We heard straight out of his lazy mouth that he thought he was too good for a low pay job so he would rather just sit in the park with his buddies drinking while my sister worked. He was a lucky homeless man since he used her car all day long while she slaved away to make money for his booze.
After 5 years her husband flew back to Cal and "collected" her.
I think she has a few mental issues for sure!
These homeless do not want to play the game of working and paying their own way, easy out beg and look sad.
I was a homeless runaway for 6 months , my choice, I know what it is to not have a meal. Was only a teenage rebel and asked for freedom from going to school and following the rules.
A soon as I turned 18 I called my parents up to get me outta there. They paid 3 months rent on a flat and bought food and goods for my new place, told me that was it, you left home early so get a job and take care of yourself. I knew in my heart I could always go home but I wanted to prove I could do it on my own. What is wrong with these full grown men?
Still if a person in need wants to change they can.
How much help can we keep giving to those who just don't give a darn about themselves or others. It is selfish to be homeless, they would rather drink or use drugs then work because they are too good to waste their time and energy like the rest of us saps do.
Heard it straight from the horse's mouth. Dam sisters ex boyfriend, he even had the darn nerve to sneak in the fridge and steal the last few cans of beer from under our noses!

Sorry folks, once again I got carried away.
Not to seem totally heartless, we did once gather all the old warm feather comforters and old warm clothing from my deceased FIL and drive into Budapest from Erd to give them out to a group of homeless men.
I also once volunteered to give a whole day of my hairdressing services to the homeless in Calf.
These were people who were trying to land jobs and needed a clean up first.
No need to pat myself on the back however because I still think most are not willing to pull their own weight.
I suppose if anyone has a large enough place they can always offer a warm place to spend the night to a homeless person.
My younger bro was sort of "stuck" for awhile with my sisters dumped homeless boyfriend for a few weeks after she was "saved" by her husband who took her back after she ran away for 5 years.
My bro was a single father and had no desire to have this bum hanging around his son or home.
The guy would knock on my bro's door all the time until my bro finally gave him his last free meal, shower and $40.
The problem with being too kind is some people just don't know when is enough.
We knew a Hungarian in Cal and later he moved to Hawaii.
He has since been deported from the US back to HU.
He burnt all the bridges in the US with his heroin  use, rehab and not ever in nearly 40 years actually getting a real job and paying taxes in the US to qualify  to get his US papers in order.
He played the system to the limit. Finally it was enough to get him tossed out of the US forever.
Ran into him on the st. in Budapest, still on smack and living off old girlfriends.
Crazy, always going on about how he should be living in his castle in Romania and a duke or some such fantasy.
After so many chances what do these people expect from hardworking everyday people?
Sad but it is more sad to work hard and be forced to give to those who are too good to work.
Oh, that HU/RO  duke would receive funds in Hawaii from the state, he would blow it all in one night by checking into a 5 star hotel, ordering food from room service and then taking all the towels and toilet items. The rest of the month he either sold himself for a bed or slept behind a dumpster.Not sure what to say about that.

People fall on hard times for all kinds of reasons and sadly addictions to drugs and or alcohol can be part of it.  Also in my working life experience some of these homeless people can be ex forces or suffering from mental health difficulties or being mentally handicapped.
It's good that there is some support for those who are able to accept it.

anns :

People fall on hard times for all kinds of reasons and sadly addictions to drugs and or alcohol can be part of it.  Also in my working life experience some of these homeless people can be ex forces or suffering from mental health difficulties or being mentally handicapped.
It's good that there is some support for those who are able to accept it.

Any addictions are a symptom of some other mental health issue.  Not sure of the culture in Hungary now but Mrs Fluffy told me the mentally ill were hidden away - communism was perfect of course. They also fairly recently closed the mental hospital in Budapest and a lot of the patients have ended up on the streets as there's nowhere for them to go. 

I've also seen people recently camping in the forest in the winter - they sometimes have makeshift shelters.  At least they have access to fuel but it looks really a dodgy existence.   There was almost an entire scrap material "village" on the Budapest Airport road forest area just after the Terminal Shopping Mall.  It looked like there were about 7 "houses" there. Almost a community.

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