Maybe some perspective for those frustrated in Libya about work permits, visas and driver's licenses.
While in Libya (just one year 2009-2010) I was often frustrated and furious at the incomprehensible red tape and mysterious, inconsistent procedures for the above.
We arrived in Calgary, Alberta 9 days ago and I've been frustrated here as well. We get double talk, conflicting information from different people at different government offices - in person as well as over the phone. And seemingly incomprehensible delays. One example:
Driver's licenses. Alberta has three "normal" (as opposed to commercial) driver's licenses based upon experience (goal is to phase in youthful drivers). Since our previous licenses from Michigan do not show first issue date, Alberta assumes we've only been driving 18 months and will issue a stage II license - with restrictions on driving at night and of course attendant higher auto insurance rates. So we need to contact Michigan and get our driving records.
My husband goes home, digs out his Ontario license which does show original issue date many years ago and we go back the next day. This time the clerk is okay with the license transfer, but, the clerk won't accept our lease agreement as proof of address since it is a private lease between us and the homeowners. (need I add the clerk the previous day said nothing about this when we showed her our lease?) Clerk number 2 tells us we need a corporate letterhead on the lease. Or a utility bill in our name. But we won't be moving in to the house until mid September and are in temporary housing - no utility bill will be in our name until then. So husband needs a letter from employer verifying his employment and our home address. We did have the employment letter which they would not accept in conjunction with the lease. So we need a new letter from his company stating employment and home address.
Meanwhile I contact Michigan to get my driver's records and find that I must apply for two different pieces of information - one with original issue date the other showing my actual record of tickets (I haven't any). They won't mail a certified copy to any place other than my Michigan record of address...... even though I've rented that house out and I need it here in my new residence. So I had to go back to Alberta and ask if a faxed record is acceptable. yes. Another delay however in that Michigan won't fax it to us for three weeks.
We've faced similar, but far more complicated and convoluted problems with our health insurance, husband and daughter's social service numbers (equivalent of USA's Social Security Number).
One agency accepted Ian's Canadian passport as proof of citizenship, the other required passport AND birth certificate. Daughter is a Canadian citizen by way of father, not birth in Canada, so it turns out we need her citizenship certificate AND her passport to prove her citizenship.
Don't even ASK about my residency status and paperwork applications. There is a glitch that will take between 3 weeks and 4 months to fix - depending upon how the clerk who opens my application feels about my request for urgency.
Can't remember the reason the bank wouldn't let us open a joint bank account. But when I went back three days ago with the info we needed, found out I couldn't open our joint bank account solo (husband had to go back to Toronto for a funeral) nor can I open a single bank account then add husband later and vice versa.
All this in just nine days here.
Bottom line: bureaucracies (especially government) around the world are uncaring and frankly obstructive toward the people they are supposed to serve - the citizens and residents of the country. Oops, rewrite required: bureaucracies around the world work to ensure their own existence - and the job security of their employees. Job security is measured by lines in the agency offices and telephone calls on hold.
On government agencies (with a rant thrown in)
What should we, the people, do?
Bureaucracies all over the world specialize in the same bull$hit.
These are just some of the hoops I've had to jump through in order to get on the UAE resident visa bandwagon:
While in the UK...degree certificate, marriage certificate and birth certificate all have to be notarized by a notary public. £100. I then have to take the same along to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office to be attested. Another £100. Then I take the same along to the UAE embassy in London to be legalized. Another £100. Along with train fares, petrol etc it comes to around £500 plus 3 days running around.
Now the same docs have to go to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs in Abu Dhabi for yet another stamp!
Sandman6 wrote:degree certificate, marriage certificate and birth certificate all have to be notarized by a notary public. £100. I then have to take the same along to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office to be attested. Another £100. Then I take the same along to the UAE embassy in London to be legalized. Another £100. Along with train fares, petrol etc it comes to around £500 plus 3 days running around.
Being able to have a glass of Wine at the Yacht Club in Abu Dhabi, Priceless!
justice4pal wrote:Don't even ASK about my residency status and paperwork applications.
How are you getting on with your residency status and paperwork applications ? 
While in Libya (just one year 2009-2010) I was often frustrated and furious at the incomprehensible red tape and mysterious, inconsistent procedures for the above.
Why couldn't you be puzzled and mildly annoyed?
It wouldn't make any difference to Libya, but would make the world of difference to your life.
I very quickly learned to take everything with me everywhere.
ALWAYS take every single scrap of paper with you. Passports, birth certificates, licences, naturalisation papers - absolutely every single piece of paper you've ever had and several photocopies of each as well.
If someone asks you for a piece of paper that you don't have, next time, make sure that you have it.
And you can't blame the banks for sticking to rules. Next time, ask in advance if you can open a joint account by yourself (and wait for the laughter to die down) before you waste a journey.
Yes, bureaucracies have a life of their own. This should not be news to you. And they create their own world. You either live happily in the world as it is, or you live a life of frustration and futility trying to make the world as you would like it to be.
The choice is yours. It sounds as if you make poor choices about the way you react to the world.
I think the clerks at the D/L branch are full of S**t. What if your family was moving to Calgary to settle down and did not have a job yet?
They are just yanking your chain.......... go raise hell, make a scene and your License would be processed without any further ado........
How are all the immigrants arriving in Canada getting their D/L's made? If corporate letterheads were a requirement none of them would be driving as most are not fortunate enough to get a job when they land in country.
Raising hell is no solution...
They will find deep pleasure in making matters worse, to show their authority, this is what I have noticed,
Best would be to get hold of some local, or sumone here who would help u make sense to them...
.
ErRm!
Siddiqui wrote:(1)I think the clerks at the D/L branch are full of S**t. What if your family was moving to Calgary to settle down and did not have a job yet?
(2) They are just yanking your chain.......... go raise hell, make a scene and your License would be processed without any further ado........
(3) How are all the immigrants arriving in Canada getting their D/L's made? If corporate letterheads were a requirement none of them would be driving as most are not fortunate enough to get a job when they land in country.
(1) You're probably right. But who cares?
(2) This technique is 100% guaranteed to fail. At the very least, it will make whoever is dealing with you to dislike you and make things as difficult as possible. At the worst, they will call security and have you ejected from the building.
You might imagine that your feelings are important to other people, but you are wrong. Public displays of anger and loud words simply make you look small and immature.
(3) They've probably had the good sense to get an international licence from their own country. That would be good for 6 months. If they didn't, it's their own stupid fault, isn't it?
I haven't checked, but I would imagine that the Canadian/State authorities probably post all the information on their web sites. You will probably find somewhere:
>> In order to be issued with a driving licence you will need to produce the following documents: ...
>> In order to open a joint account at this bank you will need to ...
>> In order to register for health insurance you will need to ...
>> If you have Canadian citizenship and you have a child who was born overseas ...
etc.
If the information isn't available on a web site, it will be available from a call centre.
If you can't be bothered checking before going, what do you expect? And to imagine that creating a scene and screaming and shouting is going to get you what you want, well, that defies belief.
if only the Almighty dollar talks everywhere!
Seymour, Siddiqi et al
Clarification: most of the time I do approach the bureaucracies and lfe's hurdles with much more tolerance and calm. But there are times in life when it all seems too much. Like now. There's alot more than driver's licenses and moving to Canada complicating my life. Hence the origin of my post's title: a rant thrown in.
Alberta gives new residents 90 days to get licenses. That's nice. With so much to do settling in to life here, we want to get as much done as early as possible. WRT licenses, my Michigan license will be sufficient for now for driving;
And with respect to on the spot arguments and raising hell, clearly I'd make us vulnerable to further delays. The objective is to get the people manning the counters to be on our side. So, I'm polite there, and rant here. As long as none of you are the manager or a clerk at the Alberta government offices I've been to, I'm "safe".
The primary objective of my original post was less to rant and more to illustrate that bureaucracies are tough to deal with in countries other than Libya. I've also learned from the employees here that in the States as well as here in Canada, much of the paperwork requirements have been stepped up since 9/11. Security.
IMO
Socialist states such as Libya et al, with relatively high birth rates and mediocrhe education systems simply churn out thousands of poorly qualified and inexperienced graduates, year after year.
Question for the State - wtf do we do with them all?
Answer - make a desk for them to shuffle paper.
Result - More and more idiots to shuffle more and more paper.
Conclusion - The bird in the first post said it all.
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