Digital Nomad & Taxes

Hi all,


I am a French citizen, currently employed in France in a multinational company. Am already working remotely, and I was thinking of joining my significant other in São Paulo for a ~2 years while she finishes her PhD in Brazil, and until we figure out if we go back living in Europe or

I learned that Brazil recently opened Digital Nomad Visas and I seem to meet all the criterias to get it. 1 year and can be extended for another year, seems perfect for my situation. 1st question then , am I missing something since its very much new, or is it actually my best go-to ? Any advice about it is welcome

Second question, which am not sure fits here since it's more of an HR/Tax question : How do I/my company handle that from a legal/administrative perspective ? I'll keep paying taxes on my salary in France, but will I pay taxes in Brazil too ? My company HQ is also in the US, would it be simpler then to get "hired" at the US side of my company and not the French side ? My manager is already in and and from the US, even tho am working from France, so that wouldnt be a problem. Working from Brazil would even be better for everyone because of time zones. However from an administrative point, am still hired in France, by the French "department" of my company, and pay taxes in France. If I move to Brazil, I doubt it will be as simple, just want to know which administrative and legal hell am facing here, if any
Like
If you have your payroll processed  here, in other words you collect a check through your employer here, then you are liable to pay taxes here.  It matters little if your employer's HQ is in France.

Unless you come up with some arrangement. 

Get an accountant to sort your affairs. 
Like
Unless you have a work authorization visa in the US, or you're also a US citizen, you will not be able to get hired on the US side of your business. 

According to this site:

******

Digital Nomad visa tax treatment is still unclear, but you may not be subject to taxes during the first six months of you stay in Brazil.  After that you may be subject to being a tax resident regardless of your visa status (one condition that subjects anyone to tax resident status in Brazil is being in Brazil for more that 183 days in a year).

According to this website, Brazil has a tax treaty with France:


So you may be able to avoid double taxation. 

To echo sprealestatebroker's comment, you likely best off consulting a tax professional prior to moving out here. 

I would suggest you consult with a tax professional in Brazil first; ask about the tax treaty in place with France and how that works, as well as when you may be subject to taxation on your global income income in Brazil, ask about Carne Leao payments (monthly payments on income derived from other countries, which would not normally be subject to customary payroll deductions here in Brazil), and ask their opinion on tax treatment of the digital nomad visa. Once you have that information, talk to a tax professional in France and see how to go about implementing the specifics of the tax treaty between the countries in your situation.

Here are two Brazilian tax firms I'm aware of who have English speaking tax professionals on staff and are familiar with international taxation circumstances:
*****

*****
Moderated by Djameel last year
Reason : No external links on the forum please.
We invite you to read the forum code of conduct
Like
Does anyone have more info regarding taxation? As I understand it, if you stay more than 183 days in Brazil you have to pay taxes on your worldwide income, unless there is a dual taxation treaty between your country and Brazil.

That being said, it kind of defies the purpose of a digital nomad visa if you are doubly taxes.
Like
07/12/220Does anyone have more info regarding taxation? As I understand it, if you stay more than 183 days in Brazil you have to pay taxes on your worldwide income, unless there is a dual taxation treaty between your country and Brazil.

That being said, it kind of defies the purpose of a digital nomad visa if you are doubly taxes.
- @littletower

Hi, littletower,

As a general rule, Brazil tries to avoid double taxation.  If Brazil and Luxembourg have a Tax Treaty, taxation would follow the rules of that treaty.  If not, Brazil would probably only try to tax income that the digital nomad actually brought into the country.  There are a lot of exceptions and special considerations to that, though, so before incurring a tax liability by spending more than six months in-country, a person should discuss his/her personal situation with a Brazilian accountant.
Like
Does anyone have more info regarding taxation? As I understand it, if you stay more than 183 days in Brazil you have to pay taxes on your worldwide income, unless there is a dual taxation treaty between your country and Brazil.

That being said, it kind of defies the purpose of a digital nomad visa if you are doubly taxes.
- @littletower

After 14-years of owning a rental home in both Brasil and living half-time in the USA where are the majority of our income is earned, we have never had to pay income tax in Brasil. I do see a professional in Brasil every year to confirm this.], not just assume and not file. Brasil seems to be very good at not double taxing.   
Like

@rraypo

Hello there.

I am also an expat from USA.

Just wondering a couple things about what you mentioned.

I noticed that Brazil taxes their residents (while they are living in Brazil) on their world wide income.


Questions:

1) Does Brazil check on residents (residing in Brazil) to see if they have foreign income paid to them in other countries (especially their home country).

  • Example someone lives in Brazil on a Permanent Residency.
  • Money paid to their USA bank account.
  • Money paid was from commissions from a USA online retailer for sales from digital products, etc.
  • They are given a 1099 report at the end of the year, so they can pay their taxes to the IRS.
  • They pay taxes to the IRS in USA.
  • They do not have a Brazilian Bank account.

2) You mentioned that you never had to pay taxes to Brazil. Was the money generated only from property rentals?

I would like to speak to someone who knows about this kind of stuff. You mentioned that you had an accountant that handles things for you.

It would be great to talk to someone. Do you have their contact info?

Thanks! 1f601.svg

Like

@rraypo
Hello there.
I am also an expat from USA.
Just wondering a couple things about what you mentioned.
I noticed that Brazil taxes their residents (while they are living in Brazil) on their world wide income.
Questions:
1) Does Brazil check on residents (residing in Brazil) to see if they have foreign income paid to them in other countries (especially their home country).
Example someone lives in Brazil on a Permanent Residency.
Money paid to their USA bank account.
Money paid was from commissions from a USA online retailer for sales from digital products, etc.
They are given a 1099 report at the end of the year, so they can pay their taxes to the IRS.
They pay taxes to the IRS in USA.
They do not have a Brazilian Bank account.
2) You mentioned that you never had to pay taxes to Brazil. Was the money generated only from property rentals?
I would like to speak to someone who knows about this kind of stuff. You mentioned that you had an accountant that handles things for you.
It would be great to talk to someone. Do you have their contact info?
Thanks! 1f601.svg
-@ExpatUSATravels



1) Does Brazil check on residents (residing in Brazil) to see if they have foreign income paid to them in other countries (especially their home country).


Not unless it shows on your spending and bank balance this side of the pond. 


Hey, you are dealing with unmotivated public servants.  They go after big fish out here.  Real Tax Cheats.   " commissions from a USA online retailer for sales from digital products, etc. " is chicken shit for them. Some big time racketeer huh?


Otherwise, You can declare ,voluntarily, on your pro forma, money earned abroad, as a Legal Resident.  I am sure there is a field for this one on the online forms.


I've done my taxes. on my own.  I am no tax expert. Don't need to .. It ain't rocket science, if you can read the language. If I am not running a complex business and I can make  time for this, it's just like making crossword puzzle.


His rentals might just fallen short of the taxable treshold for all we care.  Don't ask these questions in public forum.  He is a registered property owner, For all he has told us, He's under R$ 24,000 per year on his rental. That means, full exemption. He declares his gross rent, pays zero on the bracket. and he is free of any further encumbrances. Simple as that.


"I would like to speak to someone who knows about this kind of stuff."   This ain't your friendly H&R Block.  Go get professional advice.

Like

@sprealestatebroker

Gotcha,

Thanks for the candid comments as I'd like as many of them as I can collect.

I know how things work from home country.

I just need to know how things work here.

The one thing I do know, that many places on the globe now share information and I am not sure how advanced it is and what is connected.

I did not know these days, if by the click of a button important records can be downloaded within seconds from country to country for new residents.

Or annual stuff if you know what i mean.

My main concern is to just fly low and have no issues.

The most important thing in my example was that there was no bank account for Brazil.


And would like to add that...

*From what I'm thinking that all is cool if just wanting to use credit cards from USA to buy stuff at grocery stores or eat out,

*And also maybe pulling out some cash in BRL from ATM's here using debit card which might total about 2K in BRL per month or so.

I'm guessing if this is the case then filing stuff is not needed.

One last thing to add - My name now is not on anything in Brazil. No cell phones, no rentals, nothing, esp. not banks...

Only thing I want my name on is with the BR Gov in order to get another PR here (which is easy to get since I'm married to a BR.

Like

@sprealestatebroker
Gotcha,
Thanks for the candid comments as I'd like as many of them as I can collect. 

You are welcomed

I know how things work from home country.

US citizen here. I get it.

I just need to know how things work here.

Fair

The one thing I do know, that many places on the globe now share information and I am not sure how advanced it is and what is connected.

Ok, but don't go asking compromising questions.


I did not know these days, if by the click of a button important records can be downloaded within seconds from country to country for new residents.

I think you are getting a little too paranoid. They need to have a good reason to be on your case.  Just don't go giving.  Don't be a sitting duck.


Or annual stuff if you know what i mean.

Get used to file your stuff, save receipts, be organized. 


My main concern is to just fly low and have no issues.

Makes sense.


The most important thing in my example was that there was no bank account for Brazil.

Not a deal breaker. If you must, then you will have one. 


And would like to add that...
*From what I'm thinking that all is cool if just wanting to use credit cards from USA to buy stuff at grocery stores or eat out,
*And also maybe pulling out some cash in BRL from ATM's here using debit card which might total about 2K in BRL per month or so.
I'm guessing if this is the case then filing stuff is not needed.
One last thing to add - My name now is not on anything in Brazil. No cell phones, no rentals, nothing, esp. not banks...
Only thing I want my name on is with the BR Gov in order to get another PR here (which is easy to get since I'm married to a BR.
-@ExpatUSATravels



And would like to add that...


*From what I'm thinking that all is cool if just wanting to use credit cards from USA to buy stuff at grocery stores or eat out,

*And also maybe pulling out some cash in BRL from ATM's here using debit card which might total about 2K in BRL per month or so.



A: Yes you can.  Most of Brazilian taxes are pulled on consumption, not on income. So by the time you paid your tab. there is a lot of built in Taxes in what you paid for.   Don't forget certain Banks will charge you points for the exchange rate. You can get nickeled and dimed from this.



I'm guessing if this is the case then filing stuff is not needed.


A : It depends on how much you draw here. On money deposited here.  Up to R$ 2,000/month, no need to report.  You may report it, but no taxes are taken out.  At the store or restaurant, when they ask you for the Nota Fiscal, get the recept, but no CPF tied in it. That's how the loop back into your data. B y building a spending profile.  The CPF thing ( in Sao Paulo is the Nota Paulista ) is supposed to be a cash back rebate program to enforce retailers to actually report all receipts. Tax evasion here is huge. And as I said, I am not the one to let them know my spending patterns, as frugal as they might be. So get the receipt, and eschew the rebate.




One last thing to add - My name now is not on anything in Brazil. No cell phones, no rentals, nothing, esp. not banks...

A: Keep it that way. If you need a car, make sure it is imperative.  Taxicab fares here are cheap, and you can rent a vehicle  when you really needed it.  Enjoy frugality and the beauty of of being free from possessions for a change.  Sao Paulo's public transportation has been dicey lately with urban violence post pandemic, so if you are in SP, get car fare if your haul is a long one.


Only thing I want my name on is with the BR Gov in order to get another PR here (which is easy to get since I'm married to

okl

a BR.

It's good to be hitched, but always control the outflows. Women here can be spendthrifty with hubby's money.

Like

@rraypo

This is interesting. I would like to speak with your accountant.

So if holding a permanent residency card in Brasil and getting paid a 1099 at the end of year from earnings generated for sales from a popular online website in USA for example, while living in Brasil does Brasil check to see if there was foreign income earned?

Brasil does not have a tax treaty with USA.

And noticed that they tax on world wide income if resident in Brasil and living in Brasil.

Like

Articles to help you in your expat project in Brazil

The Brazilian labour market
The Brazilian labour market

In recent years, Brazil suffered through an economic recession and a government austerity program. Still, Brazil ...

Working in São Paulo
Working in São Paulo

São Paulo is Brazil's largest economic center by far, with many Brazilian firms headquartered here, as ...

Finding a job in Brazil
Finding a job in Brazil

It's better to get a job from abroad if you want to work in Brazil. In this article, find useful information to ...

Invest in Brazil
Invest in Brazil

With a population of more than 212 million and a growing middle class, Brazil represents many investment ...

Working in Curitiba
Working in Curitiba

Curitiba attracts many foreigners, who come both for work and because Curitiba offers a high standard of living ...

Working in Rio de Janeiro
Working in Rio de Janeiro

Rio de Janeiro is Brazil's largest commercial center after São Paulo. With a diversified economy, it ...

All of Brazil's guide articles
Choose the best health insurance
Protect your health and get easy access to treatment for expats in Brazil.
Open a bank account that suits you
Discover the best international banks to manage your money securely.
Plan your international move
Facilitate your move to Brazil by getting a quote from our top rated movers.
Send money overseas at the best rate
For fast, safe and secure money transfers to and from Brazil.