Fair amount for child support Vietnam????

-JohnD- wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Hapiness1988 wrote:

What a mean brother-in-law!

Brother of my wife.

LMAO

Pretty sure Hap was saying the brother-in-law was mean, not "what means brother-in-law".

Thanks for the laugh :-D

There's that Vinglish again.

Happiness, no he is not mean, the mother and mother-in-law refuse to let him see the child.

I also wouldn't pay in that case.

And it seems the brother-in-law must be Vietnamese so he has the luxury of not paying. My thinking was if I am not allowed to see my son, and now I am not. I too would not pay support. You pay support to share in the your parental responsibility and I believe we should all pay. But if you are only there for the money and can not be the child's male roll model and share in the custody why do you owe anyone anything. And here there is no such thing joint/shared custody here under the law. The mother controls everything. When the child is 7 now, it use to be 9, they can decide which parent they want to live with. But if the father is denied access to the child for the first 7 years chances might be slim he can get the child. But as foreigners we do not have the luxury of not paying if we ant to remain in VN.

That's quite the lesson in a first post from someone who's online ID is Heretolearn. 

I had the same thoughts THIGV. I was going to say something befitting the handle Heartolearn how these Western ATM machines work. She got a great lesson. She joined and jumped all over that. And the other with the handle ending in 1988 I assume is her year of birth is of the same ilk.  They wonder why we are dubious of their intentions. Green cards, money, a house and bye bye birdie. Funny and we do not learn fast either. Like I said long ago they are looking at the bludgeon in our pants, and not the one up front. Funny

No one suggested that you pay 100 million a month.  That was given as an example of how expensive it can be to raise a child who is attending an international school. If you reread the post,  it also says that is for two children. It's up to the father of he wants to pay that. Oh and all you guys who are talking about greedy Vietnamese mothers,  well they're the ones taking care of your kids on the measly amounts you talked so proudly of giving.

Kerryhcm wrote:

No one suggested that you pay 100 million a month.  That was given as an example of how expensive it can be to raise a child who is attending an international school. If you reread the post,  it also says that is for two children. It's up to the father of he wants to pay that. Oh and all you guys who are talking about greedy Vietnamese mothers,  well they're the ones taking care of your kids on the measly amounts you talked so proudly of giving.

Its better than the zero they would get from a VN father. Hard for you to fathom child support as its usually the woman who never pays.

Hapiness1988 wrote:

Tuition fee for 1 child at BIS/IS: 40-45 mil/ month, Fee for servant and other fee: 10 mil. 50-55mil/month for 1 child => 2 children: 100-110mil/month

There are some real examples for you guys to see, can visit this link: https://m.vov.vn/van-hoa/nghe-si/he-lo- … 781307.vov

Because the father loves their children and want them to have good education. You all know the fee of international schools, i am sure about this. I feel surprised when some expats here were surprised with the price I mentioned.

The people in your example are neither the average American nor the typical Vietnamese. The ex-wife is known as a diva, singer, show biz host, and media personality, while the ex-husband is a pilot and successful international businessman.  With his income, 100M perhaps isn't a big deal, but I can assure you, for the average American (not just American expat), $4400 is about the income s/he brings home each month. 

In some states in the US where the court uses flat percentage to determine child support, in order to pay that amount, the non-custodial parent would have to earn 4X as much so s/he can live and pay child support at the same time.  Do you know many Americans whose income is >$17K/m or >$211K/yr?  I know quite a few of them, but they all work 80 hrs/wk and suffer from permanent stress-related illnesses.

Child support amount has nothing to do with love.  It's only a reflection of what a person can afford to spend and/or what the court orders him/her to do.  Most of the time, the two numbers are one and the same.

FWIW, I'm speaking from my long ago experience as a single mother who raised two children for almost 15 years in America, most of the time without any support from the children's father.  He was supposed to pay $60/m for both children and he didn't even do that 80% of the time.  Granted, that was 35 years ago, but even with inflation, that amount is equalled to less than $200 today.  That's the court order, mind you.  You betcha I would've been happy with 5M each month.

In short, I'm with the men who have expressed their sentiments here (don't get too comfortable, guys, it hasn't happened very often so far and I doubt it would change in the future  ).  I'm not just surprised reading about that obscene amount, I'm flabbergasted.

Don't use some celebrities' capability to judge a lay person's circumstances. or as we say in English, don't compare apple and orange, and in Vietnamese, đừng so sánh không đúng cách.

Kerryhcm wrote:

That was given as an example of how expensive it can be to raise a child who is attending an international school.

Not all children need to attend international school to be academically successful.  My grandniece was educated in public school in Saigon for her entire life, although her parents skimmed and scraped so she had always taken English classes after school.  She'll start her 3rd year at University of British Columbia in the autumn.

BTW, her family never has a maid, or even a part-time cleaner, ever.  Their house is always clean, the food is always wholesome, and the quality of life is always the best they can achieve.

That obscene child support is also to pay for a maid for each child.  I doubt if the expats in Vietnam believe their wives are all on the same par with Angelina Jolie thus they would need to prepare to pay for a maid per child.

Kerryhcm wrote:

Oh and all you guys who are talking about greedy Vietnamese mothers,  well they're the ones taking care of your kids on the measly amounts you talked so proudly of giving.

I understand your sentiment, Kerry, I truly do (been there, done that, didn't care for the T-shirt).  However, it's not the men on this forum who are paying "measly amount" for child support, nor only Vietnamese mothers take care of the children.  It's a universal scene where the non-custodial parent tries to justify for the amount of support s/he has to pay, and the custodial parent expresses his/her resentment about being stuck with the children.  It's the same scene in every country and it will continue to be the same scene as long as divorce is a fact of life.  As I'm an old woman who has been through everything that life has thrown at me and came out the other side with a few hard-earned tidbits of wisdom, I can tell you that resentment doesn't make anything look, feel, taste, or become better.

Please don't say "your children".  The children are not the ex-husband's children but also the ex-wife's.  In fact, children are always the mother's children first before they become the father's.  After all, the mother carries her child in her body for months before the father has a chance to say hi to the child, so wouldn't you say the child is hers first before becoming theirs?

Loving and taking care of the children is also the mother's dearest goal in life, whether she's married or divorce, whether she's from the East or the West, whether she's a diva or a peasant, whether she works at home or away from home.  A good mother should unconditionally love and automatically take care of her children no matter the circumstance.  Father should certainly do the same thing, but loving and taking care of her children are the things that come to the mother instinctively, while the father usually has to acquire them through learning.

Using the children (with or without the possessive pronouns) as a guilt provoking weapon is never a good thing to do, thus we should all leave the innocents out of the battle.

Thanks ciambella, as usual you so articulately said what many have tried to say. The thought of the crazinesss of what was said and implied kept me up most of the night. I guess many think fathers do not live their childern and are happy to fly the coup. And perhaps there are some. But this is not child I dream to of having since the age of 12. Had to have IVF treatment to have a child at 66. I put aside the funds so he could go to university in America, and in general just wanted the best for him. Unfortunately his mother has mental issues so we end up where we are at. And yes I tried to get her help she refuses. I suggested we live near, very near. I was going to rent two homes a stones throw apart on the same street so I could care for him when she worked and she could be with the remainder of the time or what fit her needs best. But she says he will never be out of her sight until he turns 18. I am not even allowed to hold him.
My point is I am not a dead beat dad and am very capable of doing all the mother does,  sans  breastfeeding. I have rabies two brothers and 3 step-chidern. I taught my wife how to feed and burp a baby, how to bath and in all aspects care for him. There are many men in my country who care for the childern along and are single parents. Here it is written into law thatthe only the mother is capable of this. And here that is probably true. I have a comfortable retirement life here or in my home country. I would saraficw all of my needs to be able to give my son every cent I have. I only wanted a better life for him than I had. My wife agreed before marriage to everything then as soon as the ink was dried disagreed with everything. From the outset I was to homeschool him and we would set aside $400 a month for his university education. Now she refuses all that and says she does not want her child to be smart. He can never play a musical instrument she demands. So it is better just to not fight over such a huge void in our desires for our son. I am old. In all likelihood I will die before he graduates. It is better she take it from here than me. I do not want my son to live in s none of constant fighting. We can not cut him in half and share him. So I must let him go. But what is fair in the convaluted greedy system here was my question.
Thanks again well said. Thanks for the obvious time you took to put it together

@Ciambella: At my first point, I didn't mean to compare the amount, I know the amount depends on their situation. There are some posts in this thread said that 6mil - too much or nothing, no need to support bla bla... so I just told them that there are some expats support much more than that, therefore, please don't think that 6mil/month for a child is a big deal!

P/s: It is very kind of you when translating into Vietnamese just in case I don't know English. Thank you.

I thought being a mom you understood deeply what I said, please don't judge me if you don't understand what I meant.

Regards.

colinoscapee wrote:

-JohnD- wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Brother of my wife.

LMAO

Pretty sure Hap was saying the brother-in-law was mean, not "what means brother-in-law".

Thanks for the laugh :-D

There's that Vinglish again.

Happiness, no he is not mean, the mother and mother-in-law refuse to let him see the child.

I also wouldn't pay in that case.

Hi,

Why do the mother and mother-in-law refuse to let him see the child? I read the post and reason was the brother-in-law paid nothing for supporting the child.

And yes, I am Vietnamese- I am using Vinglish, and I always wonder why expats leave their country for Vietnam but cannot speak Vietnamese to us instead, and we must try to learn English well to speak to them. So I hope you appreciate my efforts on trying to use non-native language to make you understand.

Regards.

@celtichello,
Enforcement outside of the depends on the particular country, and in the case of the USA it varies by state. However, they wold have to present a case to the US juristuctation ( they being the spouse). So it would be quite difficult I think just do to the cost of hiring an attorney. Unless they wanted to do it pro se. But just the travel, visas etc would make it hard. If you apply for US citizenship for the child you sign an affidavit saying you will support the child. But there is no amount specified. The case law I have read on it the USA most courts are very indifferent when it comes to support. But they gave interceded when the Arab father absconded with the child or filed for divorce in their country. Quite acinvulted thing. I will let you know if I end up going that route is she tries to take advantage of me.

Kerryhcm wrote:

No one suggested that you pay 100 million a month.  That was given as an example of how expensive it can be to raise a child who is attending an international school. If you reread the post,  it also says that is for two children. It's up to the father of he wants to pay that. Oh and all you guys who are talking about greedy Vietnamese mothers,  well they're the ones taking care of your kids on the measly amounts you talked so proudly of giving.

I don't mind what they say Just give ideas and I am sure there are those who understand my point of view and those who tried to think it in the negative ways, it is very normal in life, right?

The host of this thread should be happy because it attracts many comments

And thank you for understanding my point of view.

Hapiness1988 wrote:

P/s: It is very kind of you when translating into Vietnamese just in case I don't know English. Thank you.

I haven't any doubt that you understood what I said, so I've never had any intention to belittle your very good English.  Multiple similar descriptions, the way I used in that post, is to capture the particularity of a sentiment, idea, or image.  It's a common practice in novel writing.

Examples that you may recognise :  "Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nil" or  "Au revoir, sayonara, adios, get lost!"  There's no need to employ words of the same meaning, but the sentence flows better when you do.

Vagabondone wrote:

I had the same thoughts THIGV. I was going to say something befitting the handle Heartolearn how these Western ATM machines work. She got a great lesson. She joined and jumped all over that. And the other with the handle ending in 1988 I assume is her year of birth is of the same ilk.  They wonder why we are dubious of their intentions. Green cards, money, a house and bye bye birdie. Funny and we do not learn fast either. Like I said long ago they are looking at the bludgeon in our pants, and not the one up front. Funny

Hi,

No need to guess my birthday, I can confirm with you I was born in 1988. I am here to help expats on matters regarding authorities, Vietnamese lifestyles,...(100% you will doubt about my help) but I still want to say my main purpose.

And I think I don't need to prove with you my properties here to let you know that Vietnamese women are not too poor to live on “Western ATM machine”. If you used to marry with a Vietnamese woman (I am not sure -just if), you must have known the reason why you loved her and decided for a commitment. Like all mothers in the world, they love their children unconditionally. If you love your children unconditionally, you will never post a post with the title “Fair amount...”

Regards,
Ni

@ happiness1988
Thanks for joining the conversation and providing your valuable inputs. I hope. I one truly is trying to denigrate you on your English abilities. They are, by the way, quite good.
You will find it common if you travel the world that people arrive in a guest country and want it to be line their mother country. This is my 72 country and I do not recall any that deviated from that. But most eventually come to their senses and realize at the very least it is not fair to anyone in the guest country.
Again thanks.

@happiness1988
   I may have confused the comments of another of the ladies that posted. I certainly appreciate your comments. I think you can speak well for the Vietnamese. But I doubt you have walked in the shoes of an expat and witnessed the greed for money that they experience at every turn. You can speak for how you feel. But I can assure many want money, citizenship, or a house. So we then revert to questions such as what is fair in VN.
Once you have a foreign partner and go to the market and unless he walks far behind you, you too will be charged 3 times the going rate. The. They will tell you as the partner to help them rip off your foreign partner. When you refuse they will tell you you have to look out for the VNese people.
  So I think some of your assumption are quite wrong.

Sorry my comments I think were intended for heartolearn.

Vagabondone wrote:

@ happiness1988
Thanks for joining the conversation and providing your valuable inputs. I hope. I one truly is trying to denigrate you on your English abilities. They are, by the way, quite good.
You will find it common if you travel the world that people arrive in a guest country and want it to be line their mother country. This is my 72 country and I do not recall any that deviated from that. But most eventually come to their senses and realize at the very least it is not fair to anyone in the guest country.
Again thanks.

Through your sayings (including “I hope”), I acknowledge that I cannot help you to find out your desired answer. You know once you post this thread, you will see many unwanted answers due to personal ideas.

I also know that expats here are treated in the unfair ways, I see everyday and that is the reason why I am here to help if any. However; when you talk about the FAIR AMOUNT regarding your blood children, this is not a matter of being unfair of expats living in the guest country anymore.

Regards,
Ni

Well I respectfully disagree with you in regards t          “ Fair amount” for “ blood childern”.  Like I said, I do not think you have the experience when it comes to divorces an how things play out. I respect your opinion that whatever the spouse asks for is deemed fair. But unfortunately, here more than any country I have lived in women us childern as tools.
  And I think you and others said a mother loves her childern unconditibally. That is true in the majority of case. But I have seen many a story in the news where morhers killed their childern, sold their childern. Even here in VN I have seen mothers get their toddlers and infants drunk so people shed putty on them and will give them money. But in the general sense I agree most morhers AND Fathers in my country live their childern uncoditiknally. But that get far astray of the question of the thread.
  And as I said before without additional information my original question is unfair and even if it were could not be answered. I knew when I asked I would get many varied opinions. And all are welcome.
And I am trying to operate within the principals set forth in VNes Family Law also. And to an extent they deal with “fair”. So if that terms offends you when it comes to child support maybe you can come back and speak on the subject once you go through a divorce.

Funny I m not asking anyone here for money and I should learn how western atm machine works? I have friends with kids, they are my age. They n their husbands make around 50 mil per month and the cost for their 2 years old is about 15 million per month and for their new-born is 6 million per month. In my opinion, I would never bring a child into this world without at least giving them a good home and good education. The fact that you, for some reasons want a child your age and with a dementia, greedy woman as you described is just selfish. I don't wonder why you are dubious of my intentions. I wonder why you believe a woman I assume less than 40 would have a nearly 70 yo man s child not for money or visa, etc. If she just wants a child to raise by herself surely there are other options. And you always have the option to sign a contract before you imprenant her, why not do that. Honestly I don't make much money myself but I don't f*ck ugly guys  unless he is a millionaire at least. But then millionaires are out of my league so don't have to worry for your fellow expats that I m having bad intentions toward them. I am talking from the perpective of the child really. Not on the mother or the father's side cuz one is selfish and the other is stupid.

Nothing like judging a situation you know squat about.

6 million a month for new born, you have no idea what you are talking about.

@heartolearn,
Don't get your water hot dear. It was a tongue-in-cheek comment as we say in America. I think most accepted the remark knowing it was in jest. But I apologize if you took it to heart.
And there is no doubt about what you said in regards to couples of large age differences. Why the ole farts keep believing that the gals are madly in love with are deep wrinkles, ball heads, incontinence all all the other problems is ole farts have is something for another thread perhaps. But we keep on a doing it.
And it is funny I met the gal on here and she was here to learn more about the American way of life.
But don't throw in the towel and get to angry. You will find there is a lot of good and bad on here.
And thanks for sharing a part of your rich friends story with all of us.

Same as assume someone you know nothing about having golddigger friends or is a golddigger herself. I don't mind being a gold digger actually but I don't have the chance since I m not stupid enough to blow my body up for nine months, almost no hope of getting my old body back ever and stuck with a really huge responsility of raising a child for 18 years for 23 millions per month. Again, when I wrote this. I thought about my childhood, wishing I could go to British Council for some english classes with native english teachers like my classmates, wishing I could have beautiful clothes like them, wishing I could take a piano lesson. I know if my parents can affort it they would not refuse me sth like that. I felt funny people here thing 5 mil is generous. It is better than nothing for sure but it is not generous by any mean.

Well dear “ heartolearn”. There is a great deal more to parenting, divorce etc. Than mere money paid as child support. I am one gal of the parents in his life. He has two, a mother and a dad. I have made it clear to the soon to be ex that I will pay for any of my sons needs that I can take him to and pay for myself. If shecwould allow him to take piano lessons I would sign him up in a heartbeat and pick him up promptly to go. Unfortunately she has forbidden him to ever play an instrument ( to dangerous for his ears). LikewisezI would pick him up and take him shopping for whatever nice clothes he wanted. I could pay his mother 500 m vnd a month and he will get nothing.
So to boil life down to just money might be a good approach to life.
Again thanks for all your great inputs. And It is great  your hear to learn as many of us are also.

@Vagabondone
As you said I had no experience on divorce, so I would like to ask you 2 questions to expand my knowledge (1) Can you tell me what average amount do the husband pay for the wife to support one child in USA? (2) When they divorce, do they divide the existing properties in USA?

Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks in advance.
Ni

Heretolearn, your comments are embarrassing.
You seems to be really frustrated not found a millionaire yet.

I wish you will find soon a rich fool who finances your glamorous life and I hope that he does not impregnate you, because:

Heretolearn wrote:

...I m not stupid enough to blow my body up for nine months, almost no hope of getting my old body back...

With such a mindset you should not post anything in a thread about kids.

Just to add information related to the initial question, a Vietnamese friend of mine (who lives in Canada) has a wife and two kids in Vietnam (Rach Gia) and sends about CAD$1000 (USD$750?) a month, which is seen a very generous in his Vietnamese circle. Granted, life is Rach Gia is probably much cheaper than Saigon. Also, they're still married so he supports also the wife.

Thanks to Heretolearn, I am now practicing pretending I'm a millionaire for my next trip to Vietnam. Where's that Monopoly money again?

Hapiness1988 wrote:

@Vagabondone
As you said I had no experience on divorce, so I would like to ask you 2 questions to expand my knowledge (1) Can you tell me what average amount do the husband pay for the wife to support one child in USA? (2) When they divorce, do they divide the existing properties in USA?

Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks in advance.
Ni

Read the post #47 from Ciambella.

You should start a self-help group together with Heartolearn.
Maybe with the hashtag #WeTwo. 

Hapiness1988 wrote:

@Vagabondone
As you said I had no experience on divorce, so I would like to ask you 2 questions to expand my knowledge (1) Can you tell me what average amount do the husband pay for the wife to support one child in USA? (2) When they divorce, do they divide the existing properties in USA?

Look forward to hearing from you.

I know quite a bit about this matter, so please allow me to answer your questions while waiting for Vagabonde:

In 1985, my children's father paid $60/m for two children.  As I mentioned in earlier post, with inflation, the amount is comparable to $140 in 2018.  That's VND 3,225,180 on today's exchange. 

OTOH, in 1988, my niece received $1800 support payment for one child during the 4 years she stayed home (no income) to care for the child.  When my niece went back to work, her income became part of the total upkeep for the child and the child support was reduced.  The father petitioned for lower payment every time she had a promotion and her income became higher.  When the child was in high school, his and her shares became 60/40 (40 was his part) due to the extra expenses that the child wished to have but her father didn't think she needed.  The court agreed with him.

In the US, there's no "average amount" in child support.  It's different with EVERY. SINGLE. CASE.  It's also different in every state. 

As for the division of assets and properties, anything existed before the marriage belongs solely to the party who owns it.  This rule applies uniformly in all 50 states.

In common law property states, properties that are acquired after the wedding in both spouses' names are divisible (though not equally), but properties acquired by one spouse and registered only in that spouse's name belong solely to that spouse.  Debts that occurred during the marriage by one spouse are that spouse's sole responsibility.  However, if the debts are for necessities such as food and shelter for the family or tuitions for the children, then both spouses must share the responsibility to pay upon the divorce.

In community property states, all assets acquired during the marriage are owned by both spouses equally, also all debts acquired during the marriage, even if only one person borrowed the money, are the responsibility of both spouses equally.

Hapiness1988 wrote:

(1) Can you tell me what average amount do the husband pay for the wife to support one child in USA? (2) When they divorce, do they divide the existing properties in USA?

1) Unfortunately, because for certain matters of law, the US is a federation of 50 states, there are 50 answers to your questions.  I do know that in my state, there are quite complicated tables involving income of both spouses.  Here is my state:  http://www.courts.state.hi.us/self-help … ld_support  If you have nothing else to do for a week,    perhaps you could begin to understand by following all the links and downloading all the worksheets.  Then you could find another state and do it again and repeat the process 50 times.

2) Again laws on division of property vary state by state.  In some states it is straight 50/50.  In others it depends on how much each party brought into the marriage.  I can say that division of property is an alimony related question which in the US is entirely separate from child support.  I know in my state, alimony is supposed to afford the lower income spouse the "lifestyle to which they are accustomed."  However, if you think about it, that could mean 100% of the higher earning spouses net income.  The amount is set by the judge so, unlike child support, it can vary considerably from case to case.  This would be only a casual observation, but usually division of property is only a real issue for rather wealthy people.  I did know a person who fought his wife over a piece of land with no house long enough that the lawyers for both sides received more than the total value of the land.

I am sorry if this confuses things but the almost unique structure of US government makes you question almost impossible to answer.

me psy UK oe EU

Here is a more precise answer to your question #1.  As Gobot likes to remind us "Google is your friend."

The average child support payment (2010 census) is $430.00, in other words less than 10 mil VND.  Given the differences in cost of living and keeping in mind that child support in the US is usually not directly tied to the husband's income, that makes the woman's demands in this case seem more than a little high.  I don't think that I am one of those who will say not to give her anything, but she does seem to be asking for a bit too much.

Thaiger wrote:

me psy UK oe EU

Maybe you should come back when you are sober.   

THIGV wrote:

I don't think that I am one of those who will say not to give her anything, but she does seem to be asking for a bit too much.

If I'm not mistaken, no one actually said not to give her anything, but rather, everyone seems to agree with what Vagabondone has been doing and will continue to do: paying all expenses directly to the providers instead of giving the woman the cash.  I don't think that's a bad idea at all.  If the child's every need is taken care of, including his future, then what's there for the mother to worry or demand?

Again, if I'm not mistaken, Vagabondone is willing to pay all expenses (medical bills, child care, food, clothing, music lessons, etc.) in addition to some sort of stipend to the mother in exchange for the rights to see the baby.  From where I'm sitting, that's a pretty generous proposal even if the portion to the mother is only 500K.  Child support, after all, is the fund to support the child, so who cares how the expenses are paid as long as they're paid?

I think some of us should re-read what Vagabondone wrote before continue bashing the man over the head (this excludes THIGV who does read everything):

These are the quotes from his posts: 

"My wife wants 23m and told the court she was paying 6m a month for English classes, 1.5m for extra curricular activity, 1.5m a month for medical ( and I pay for all my child's medical at FV and Diamond plaza) and she says she feeds him 370g of beef a day. My word he is 19 months old and in diapers and barely able to say a word. What English school would take on changing diapers while teaching a child English. What extra curricular could the child be taking....he does not even have curricular training."

"I will provide anything my child ask me for. But that is apart from what I am compelled by the court to pay. I have told her I will pay for anything I can take him to go do or get."

"I was supporting all of his needs, sans his food exspenses and living quarters. And had agreed to support him continually in that way and pay for all his education through university. She told the court no, she wanted the cash." 

"I was thinking 5 m should be fair. Considering she makes 10m and I am responsible for 1/2 of his support and none of hers." (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he meant 5M to pay for the intangibles.)

"What I said was I proposed that I co to he paying all his tangible exspenses no matter what they were if I paid them directly to the provider of the service or the item, in lieu of support payment paid to her."

BTW, Vagabondone, either disable autocorrect or type slower, please.  Your posts give me quite a bit of challenge and I'm too old to decipher before reading.   

Understand. If I knew how I would. I have seen it in my phone before. But where I do not know. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to tech.

I tbink I found the right things to disable. Something I should have done long ago and wanted to. Thanks for pulling my chain to get me to do it.