New apartment, landlord doesn't want to register with police

Hello,

I am newly arrived in Vietnam and I have just signed a lease for an apartment in Phu My Hung. People tell me I'm a bit of a worry-wart, and they say in Vietnam you don't need to worry, things can always be worked out, albeit sometimes expensively. I still worry.

After signing and handing over the deposit, I asked about registering with the police, the landlord said he didn't want to do that. If he did that, I would need to pay more money (invoice fees, or something).

From what I understand, these are the facts
(registration)
1. Anyone staying at a property must be registered with the local police (Cong An?)
2. This is the landlord's responsibility
3. If the police check, it is the landlord that is fined
(tax/invoice fees)
4. The tax/invoice fees are 10%
5. The landlord is legally allowed to retrieve these fees from the tenants
(temporary residence card)
6. I will need to modify my temporary residence card to change to my new address

Please correct any of the above if I'm wrong.

I haven't seen my temporary residence card yet (still in progress), so I don't know if it was initially registered to my employer's address or my address. Do I need to change my address when I move in? My employer says don't worry, but if it has the wrong address, will it be a problem in future?

My biggest issue is this: If I am not registered with the Cong An, and I change the address on my temporary residence card (arranged by my employer), will there be a problem?

To make things more complicated, the landlord has gone to the US since I signed the lease. I am not due to move in for another week. Can I register with the Cong An myself, without the landlord?

Does anyone have any recommendations?

thanks,


Marcus

1. Anyone staying at a property must be registered with the local police (Cong An?)

Yes, it is absolutely obligatory !

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2. This is the landlord's responsibility

Correct. The Owner must ask your visa and go to the police to declare you live i his house.

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3. If the police check, it is the landlord that is fined(tax/invoice fees)

Yes, but with police, we dont know exactly,if the smell money,because they see you are alone, dont know a lot,mayby they will ask you some meony to help you.

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4. The tax/invoice fees are 10%

Correct. Here, Vietnam and vn comanies use a red bill (bill from the government,with a number, and with the registered number of the company). If you ask a bill for the vietnam,you need a red bill (+10%), if you need a bill for outside, ask a white bill (classic bill with the name of the company and their stamp). This white bill is free of charge,but have no value un Vietnam, eveybody in vietnamcan make a white bill. If you return in your country and buy for example a real swatch clock, you will need a white bill for the custom to prouve it's not a copy (the red bill have no value for the foreign custom,that mean it have 2 bills : ared one for the vietnam,awhite one for outside...).,

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5. The landlord is legally allowed to retrieve these fees from the tenants
(temporary residence card)

witch fees of landford you talk ? i dont undestand....

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6. I will need to modify my temporary residence card to change to my new address

That, i dont know,somebody else will answer for this point, i never use a temporary card.
(i'm surprise you have this paper,i beleive it is only for students, but i dont know a lot this paper,nevermind....).

If your presence here is not known to the local cong an precisely with a correct address,  you can get by for a short while. BUT when you renew your visa, you will need the cong an's stamp and signature and they will only sign after verifying your details in the household log book.  Then you will be in hot soup but as they say, you can 'pay through anything ' but it just costs a lot more than you bargained for..

you will get trouble in your next temporary card renewal. you need the police to certify that you are recently living there and the period of time that you had live. if the. land lord not register with local police, how to certify for you?
mostly the land lord will not want to do that. they will have to register to issue invoice, register for fire fighting prevention and pay tax. if they keep silent, they can keep all the money and you will suffer with that.
as you sign and paid the deposit, and paid up in advance,no way to cancel the lease contract. but maybe you can try not to pay in the next rental due and ask them to do their duty then you pay. it will play safe for you.

Hi Marcus ,
i think must landlords in Viet Nam must do the registered at police for you that is the landords reposibility of the landlords and must this clause but in the contract in part the reposibility of the landlord  event in D1-4-5-6-7 or the landlord he a president he also to do that not u ,and u no need to pay anything for the police  and the landords either ,  but if the landlords  but do do fast without any question from the police he can tip 200-300vnd .
in case the landlords want to u to pay u can bring him to to police to ask rite or not , if he not  registered for you u should cancel the lease .
if you want to help  email for me by [email protected] or 0903818687
good luck

This is a common problem of so many expats and tourists! :D
"Think twice before you leap"
Nobody care. Just see one room/house/apartment, agree everything with the landlord. Never ask for facilities or documents or even bargain for the high rent! No patience!
In your case, yes, you were ignorant! It's the duty of land lord to register in the ward police station. So many expats scared of police. No need to worry too much. Just take your passport to the ward police station and you can register yourself without any fee. In some apartment management office arrange this with a 'small fee'.My apartment authority asked 1 million!:D
I just called my landlord, she paid 600 VND as 'bribery' for 1 year and registered.:D
It's not an emergency to register but whenever you need criminal record from nearest police station, then you need this registration!

Prem Charma

My advise is to register ASAP! A friend of mine was fined 3 million dong when the local police did a routine check at the apartment he was living in. The landlord was fined 5 mill on top of that as well. This happened last year at Conic Garden in Bin Chanh district.

I own 2 apartments so i know that in order to rent your property to foreigners, the landlord needs to get a special licence (the fees depends on the district and value of the rental). All this should have been costed into your rental. Welcome to Vietnam! :)

Yes, good old police scamming money as always,when will these grubs be cut down to size. I had a landlord in Saigon who was a 65 year old woman, she refused to pay and the police made her run around getting all sorts of documents, when she obtained them and took them back to the police, the police said they were of no use to them. In short, the police dont have time to catch criminals, but plenty of time to collect bribes from every business and rental that houses a foreigner.Welcome to the world of Viet Nam.

They also part of society, need to swim!
I rarely see some landlord register for their tenants. If they compel to register just give 'something' to the charge official of that location so he/she enter details in the police station register! Anyway government get nothing!:D Tax evasion is not a new phrase!

Prem Charma

I would be looking you up for help if I needed it while in HCMC.:D

:D

I moved into a house in Binh Tan recently. I asked if the landlord was licensed and i gave them a copy of my passport and visa. In my last house in D1 the landlord put my details in the red book and when i renewed my visa, i had to get a copy of the red book. I have just found out that my landlord is not licensed, she just paid the local police some "tea money". How will i go renewing my visa? I think this is going to be a problem.

If landlord they dont have the license they cant get the red boom however u can asked owner if they know any friends got house for rent license they can registration in their friends house then borrow the red book just do for visa is ok

ghengis212 wrote:

I moved into a house in Binh Tan recently. I asked if the landlord was licensed and i gave them a copy of my passport and visa. In my last house in D1 the landlord put my details in the red book and when i renewed my visa, i had to get a copy of the red book. I have just found out that my landlord is not licensed, she just paid the local police some "tea money". How will i go renewing my visa? I think this is going to be a problem.

One thing Internal Security likes to know who is living where. Recording occupants of houses is very big here, forgetting about the Cong An inspections and taxes.

Foreigners laugh at the VNese for using paper systems rather than computers but I know from first hand experience the paper system might be slower but it does work!

The 'Red Book' is usually pink and this has been superseded by a smaller book that costs VND20,000.

In addition to the 'Book' (SO - Dang Ky Luu Tru) the owner has to provide other documents that prove registration with 'relevant authorities'.

Since it is your interest to protect yourself, and the LL has - in effect - lied to you, get prepared.

1. The Cong An can order you to move (unapproved premises)
2. This makes you vulnerable to the expense of moving and finding a new place at short notice.
3. You must be prepared to say (lie) you gave everything to the LL and she said she would 'do everything'.
4. Do you know real LL name? Does she give you a receipt? (Have her write her ID card number on it) What of your rent deposit - do you have a receipt for this payment?
4. Collect all information you can about her from envelopes (utility bills, cable TV bills, MOTORCYCLE PLATE NUMBERS) etc. Too many LL 'forget' to refund deposits and they 'disappear' so they avoid refunds.

When you come to the end of your lease (you have one) don't pay the last two months - tell the LL to deduct it from deposit (if you left two months).

IF YOUR LL DOESN'T PROVIDE RECEIPTS - make a receipt - in VNese - and have her sign it. Tell her you need it so you can get paid by your employer.

Better still, pay by BANK TRANSFER! Third Party proof (receipt)  is always better.

VN has the same system as the Chinese - a Cong An spy in every block or street. Usually nosy older women who 'chat'. They then have monthly meetings in the local Cong An office where they all report things that are happening. Then the Cong An 'leaps' into action.

Don't worry about your visa - the LL is the cheat. If / when you move simply advise the Permit issuing office of your new address (take two copies - get them to sign they received it). Attaching a photocopy of your visa/permit/documentation will make it easier for them to file the change.

I have my landlord write a receipt in a book I keep,the date and amount each month.

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