Looking to move to panama or Costa Rica. Would love some advice

Hello keithzeiler and welcome to Expat.com!

Do not hesitate to browse through the forum, it may help.

I wish you all the best,
Harmonie.

Pick another country..... u r close to Canada and they are expat friendly. Costa Rica and Panama SUCK. Been in both since 91 so I know. They are backwards and really pretty stupid when it comes to everyday things. Forget residency...immigration is a freakin nightmare.


I wouldn't do it again...I just left so the feds wouldn't get my money!!! Hmmmm isn't that what they are doing now!!!!

Eastern Europe is maybe a good choice. Not Central America.

Good luck.

We are also looking into moving to Panama.. I have heard it's a great place to relocate to. Why have you had so many problems Invader609??

It's NOT just me...ask others who have built or had built new homes or done big renovations. Dealing with any govt agencies is a nightmare. They are suppose to have english translations for all legal docs. If u want it u have to pay for them. Also, they never let you know they speak english, when most do. Every time you drive out of PC u need to have at least 5 or 6 $5. bills ready to pay the "Pago" police. These are the ones that sit in the phony speed zones, traps, and pull u over, never to show u the speed on the gun, threaten u with a $160 ticket and other things they can nail you for like ur seat belt or a lite out. So make it quick and just give'm the $5 bucks and be on ur way. Remember its a "GIFT", not a bribe. If they ask for more tell'm to F'off and u want to speak to his supervisor. Then burn his ass on the 5'er!!!!

The "Jubilado" thing is a joke.....ur lucky if u get 2% at some super markets. Wait'll u try to get the discount at the airport. Maybe the movies or certain restaurants but thats about it.

U will be lucky to get ur residency after jumping thru hoops for a few years and more legal fees. ...no passport or citizenship for u. Also, if ur lawyers lips are moving...he's lying to u. They all do....almost forgot...the banks here are IRS stoolies. They collect as much info about u and ur FAMILY as possible then sell it to the IRS, for a nice bounty. Hows that for a welcoming to ur new home. Do not let them know you have any credit cards or family in AmeriKa. They want all that info too. Its called knowing our customer!!! Its actually selling you out to the IRS.

Believe me when I say it will be ur worst nightmare!!!! Pick another country.

Invader

WOW!  That is quite a bubble buster.  I would really like to hear some other responses from those there on the ground.

You want to move from beautiful, friendly, wonderful Montana into this hellhole???? WTF is wrong with you??

OK, you like the warm weather, maybe the food but you can just come for vacations or go to Puerto Rico or the Caribbean Islands. Don't come here or CR. It will be your worst nightmare.

Sorry,
Invader

Every Paradise has it's down side!

Hello,

I hope other members will soon share their positive experience on Panama.

Thank you.

Boy is that a lot of questions.  But I have all your answers. I figured out a way to move to Panama, make your money go four times as far, gain a community quickly, avoid all the pit-falls of moving to a completely new country and culture. Yep, sounds like another real estate advertisement. Thats becouse it is, but thats only part of the great plan that I came up with. Even better yet, I'm not looking to gain an profit from you. If you want to inquire about the concept that we are building currently, write me now. I stand to gain from building this private community, but it won't come directly from taking a profit from your hard earned money. I receive financial gain utilizing shared resources. What exactly do I mean. Imagine building our own micro-hydroelectric plant on our own stream shared by the community. Complete electric independence....forever. Virtual food independence through a community run farm. Nope, you are not gonna be asked to help water the tomatoes. It makes more economic sense to help support the community by giving a local laborer that job, and he pays for his own wages through his work producing a profit on the farm. Which brings to mind the subject of association fees. This would be optional. Imagine no hassles with getting robbed because you are not familiar with "the way things are done" in Panama by govermental graft, building permits, local builders, the mechanic down the street, etc... The combined 16 years of living and working in Panama that my partners and myself have, will enable us to avoid any pitfalls. We are starting a private community in which you will also share in being the developer. So we don't have to write in the cost of overhead and profit because a risk is not incurred on our part, as the original investors. If you want to hear more, write me at jdeslondes@gmail.com.
This is the big break that we are all looking for. It only takes the willingness to share resources, which is a bit different concept than we've all been programed to operate at when we are raised in a first world country. This is not and will never be a commune concept. It is about pooling financial resouces for a better way of living for the entire community. Imagine having four acres for your own for $20k. It still exists, but not if you are looking to purchase it in the normal manner, through an agent selling for developers. If you think that this is to good to be true, take a look at the pessimistic information that I have posted on this sight about a year ago, warning gringos about the pitfalls that one would face moving to any latin country. We all absolutely love living here, and I have now figured out a way to help expats moving here to transition very smoothly, and for the prices that could only be had over 10 years ago.
have a great day and we can't wait to hear from you,
Jim, Teresa, and Kevin

First off, you should know that over the last five or so years expats have been making a mad exodus from Costa Rica to Panama.  Violent crime against grindos (read "whites") has increased to shameful levels.  These expats are those who had been living in Costa Rica for years and decades for some, completely set up in the community.  They have had to practically give away their properties to get out.  Greed is the ultimate reason.  Costa Rica is not a good choice.

Greed is no different in Panama (or any other Central American country) but the violent crime rate is significantly lower against gringos.  Maybe the occasional robbery or whatever but if you watch what you're doing like in any city, Panama is fairly safe.

With respect to issues other than crime, I have to agree with Invader609 on most points, especially "gifting" the police while on the road. 

Some points to consider:

1.  Alot of lawyers aren't really lawyers at all.  Wealthy Panamanians are able to purchase law degrees for their kids and set up an office to start doing business.  You really need to do your due diligence in finding an actual lawyer that knows what they are doing and won't suck every last dime out of you.  Luckily, there are some out there.

2.  As for immigration, we didn't have too much problem getting our cedulas (photo identification cards).  This is because we have a good lawyer.  As for the Pensionado visa, most restaurants will give the discount, along with movies/cinema, Copa Airlines, pharmacies and even doctors/hospitals.  This is a good program.

3.  Those who read International Living and similar publications are not getting an accurate picture - in fact it is quite distorted.  There are plenty of other publications out there, written by expats that actually live in Panama that are truthful depictions of it really is down here - both the good and the bad.

4.  Expats that have lived in Panama for ten years or longer are staying because either they have fully adapted to how life works down here and accept it, or they have no other options available to them, mostly due to lack of funds.

5.  Expats that have moved to Panama in the last five or so years (including those who had moved from Costa Rica) are leaving.  This is either due to:

(a) Climate: After spending a full year and experiencing both dry and wet seasons, alot of people can't handle the stifling humidity and move to cooler climates, especially fellow Canadians.  They are moving in droves to mainly Ecuador and Columbia.

(b) Inflation: Inflation rates are causing Panama's cost of living to not be the deal it used to be.  For example, in the last quarter of 2011 grocery prices increased 30% - it is now cheaper to buy groceries in the U.S. than in Panama.  This is also causing expats to leave the country in search of the ability to make their money go further - again Ecuador and Columbia.  As a fairly accurate assessment, basic monthly costs for a couple to live in the city are approximately $400 for groceries, $150 for electricity, $20 for water.  Add in rent, which will start at $1,200 - $1,400 (minimum) for a decent unfurnished two bedroom condo in good areas of the city (El Cangrejo, Obarrio, Paitilla, Punta Pacifica) on a one year lease.  You will pay more for temporary, furnished rentals.  Taxis cost pretty much $2 anywhere in the city, except to the Amador and out to Costa Del Este, which will run $4 - $6.  Add in $40 for monthly taxi fare.  This already gives a total of $1,810 and this does not include going to restaurants, going out for a few drinks, attending expat events, etc.  Living in David or Bouquete can bring down the costs but you are very isolated with very limited services.

c) Non-acceptance:  Some expats simply cannot accept the lack of service that is EVERYWHERE.  Whether in a grocery store, department store, utility company or restaurant, employees are typically on their cellphones and by them helping you in any way (like paying for a purchase) is a huge interruption and they make it known they aren't too happy to assist.  This is certainly not everywhere but is definitely the norm.  Note:  Huge numbers of Columbians and Venezuelans are moving to Panama, purchasing properties, starting businesses and obtaining employment.  This is a very good thing.  In those countries people are educated and give good service, on the whole.  By them coming here will hopefully in time (in the next decade one can only hope), turn customer service around a bit.  Until then be forwarned.  Typical complaints among expats are when someone, any kind of worker/installer, says they will come to your place on Monday morning, chances are they will show up on Wednesday or Thursday, with no phone call to either tell you they are not coming or when they are coming.  You can call them all you want but they will not answer their phone until they are ready to do so.  Panamanians hate confrontation and will tell you what you want to hear.  What they actually DO is another story all together.  While in Chile in November I was speaking to a friend who has lived near Santiago all her life.  She is educated, has money and is a prominant figure within the community.  She has the exact same story with an electrician in trying to get an electrical outlet installed in her home.  A few months later she was finally able to have it installed.  I was so suprised by this but she just shrugged her shoulders and said, "It's a Latino thing".  There you go....

6.  If you think you can come down and befriend the locals, think again.  Panamanians are generally kind, happy people but at the same time are very private and close-knit.  You may feel a sense of community being able to walk down the street and receive a genuine "Buenos Dias" from the shop/restaurant owners and they will even remember your first name but mingling with them on a social basis is practically unheard of, even though you can carry on a conversation with them in Spanish.  They mingle with their own and expats generally do the same.   Again, there are a few exceptions, especially those in the 20's/early 30's, but this is hugely predominant.

So if you have found yourself a decent lawyer, have secured proper immigration papers, have rented or purchased acceptable living quarters, think you can hack the weather and have a "live and let live" attitude, you are on the right track to start.  The best possible advice is to spend more than a fews weeks on vacation in Panama to really check it out.  North Americans can now enter Panama and stay for six months before having to leave the country.  This provides a good opportunity to explore.  To sell and shut down everything in North America before spending a good deal of time here is not recommended.  Really do your homework!!!!

Whew............so much information there.......enuff to give u indigestion. But after 22 yrs down here between Costa Rica and Panama, I am inclined to agree with Invader and Panama Jane........its not what its cracked up to be........Costa Rica with a good govt. that hasnt capitulated to globalist agenda and greed would still be the place, but no longer is.........more expensive than Hawaii....and not as safe....or as professional.....but still better and more cultural than Panama.......Panama is a mixed bag, and there are nice people, but in general, it is full of neanderthals and is calculated to drive u round the bend.....and they steal here too, almost as much as Costa Rica.......and the traffic cops are a plague.......Martinelli the Prez, says he wants to make Panama into the Switzerland of the Americas......well, let me tell u, he's got a HUGE job there......cuz Panama is trashed out.....and corrupt.......and good luk if u need to go to court over any issue...........Ive been here 11 yrs or so, and speak the language well, and have  Pana friends, but I am bored with the culture, the music, the food............and the prices are goin up month by month..........believe me, its losing its luster and Im already lookin for the next place.......any of you looking for a good deal on a slice of upcountry paradise?  Cuz Im sellin.......best offer......and then Im movin on....someplace where the President hasnt sold out to the globalists and the U.S. govt..........does it exist? Oh,  Venezuela, u say? Ecuador, maybe....................the Philippines, could be.......I hear they listen to old rock n roll over there.....not the vomit reggaeton they seem to love here in Panama...........Panama may be booming economically right now, its true......so, thats an advantage.......but its mostly fueled by govt spending, which is based on debt to the international bankers.........and we all know where that leads....................

send me your number.  I can call you toll free thru a vonage system

Jim

Panamajames wrote:

send me your number.  I can call you toll free thru a vonage system

Jim

Who? Me? And if its me u want to call, how can I send u my number or skype address so that the whole world doesnt see it?

Please write me at des_lon@hotmail.com
I'll give you my phone number.

Ciao y buen dia,
Jim