Just returned from Panama

This is definitely why everyone needs to visit first.  We are going on our second trip to Panama (leave in three weeks) and will visit farther west but not quite to Boquete yet.  We hope to see Boquete on a third trip lol  BUT then again, we may rent in Panama an hour or so west of the city and look to buy elsewhere once paperwork in order, etc.  Who knows!  Thanks for posting and good luck wherever you go and retire to!

bpcahoon,

I'm sorry your trip didn't turn out like you expected. I remember the first time I visited (my wife is Panamanian) and I thought, "There's no way I can live here." Here I am several years later. To get a good view of what Panama can really offer, you'd need to get outside of the two major cities in Panama, which are Panama City and David. You mentioned your age, and I don't know what that is, or if that would be a factor in not wanting to go too country or local, but I really wish you would've gone to see Boquete. It really is a beautiful place. And there are so many other beautiful places in Panama. It's hard to see that when you're in the city. Plus, where you stayed, next to the canal, is not even in the cool parts of the city. Did you get a chance to check out Casco Viejo or Punta Pacifica or Costa del Este on the outskirts of the city? These are all nice, clean places. Don't give up just yet. If you felt that Panama was for you (at some point in time) it might be worth visiting again and getting out of the cities. Go to the mountain towns like El Valle or Altos del Maria or go hang out in the expat bars in Coronado. This can be a really cool place.

Chris

We haven't given up completely on Panama; we just know that Panama City & possibly David are not the places for us. We actually didn't feel as overwhelmed in David as we did in PC. We were really torn on going to Boquete but the flip of the coin took us to Playa La Barqueta. We are very much beach people. We would of liked to of gone to Coronado but that will have to be on another trip with more time.  We are both in our early 50's and small business owners so we are in that “limbo” stage of life not ready for retirement but don't want big city life. We are very realistic people when it comes to living in an area, you can't hide in some gated community (it seemed the people we meet at David did exactly this) and pretend the rest of it isn't there. Thanks for the suggestions of other areas!

I notice that no one even mentions Volcan, which is on the other side of Volcan Baru from Boquete. Volcan is much less "gringo-ized" (and much less expensive) than Boquete. I've lived in Volcan for eight years and I love it there. But it isn't for everyone, just as moving from one's home country to one where there is a totally different culture and language is not for everyone.

For people interested in Panama, I'd advise joining the following yahoo groups:

[email protected] (The owner/moderator of this group is a jerk but sometimes you'll find a useful tidbit of information)

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

As with any yahoo group, you'll have to wade through a lot of posting that don't interest you, but search the archives and ask questions.

Dear muffiemae,
I am glad someone is happy there.  Do you know of any rentals there that would take a dog, cat, human, and possibly a horse?  Is it relatively safe there? I was looking to move to Boquete but sounds like Volcan is less expensive.  I am a quiet country type, outdoorsy and likes the quiet.  Is it quiet there also?
thanks for all of the info and other chat sites, Julie

There are many places you can rent that would allow you and all the critters you mention. Volcan is generally quiet except for holidays when they go crazy with fireworks - but that's no different from any other place in Panama, or Latin America in general. Or, unless you live next to someone who lets their dogs bark all night long.

Volcan has gotten more "social" activities, but if a lot of socializing is what you like, then Boquete is a better fit. You can subscribe to [email protected]. There are numerous emails every day announcing activity after activity.

I'm not one for much socializing myself and Volcan suits me very well. However, do NOT up and move anywhere before visiting to see for yourself.

I had read enough on the yahoo groups about Volcan to know that's where I wanted to visit. So I made a two-week trip, went back home and sold my house, and three months later my container was on the way. I've never regretted it for a second, and I have no desire to return to the US, ever.

Thanks so much for your info.  I am not much of a social person either, every now and then.  Is Boquete close enough to go to for a few social activities?  I don't think I would miss America much.  I have no house hold goods, no house, and a temp job so I am prepared just to go and live for a few months if I don't like it I can leave.  So its not trashy or real noisy most of the time?  thanks again for replying, Julie

Boquete is about 1-1/2 hours from Volcan. However, Volcan does have some social activities. You mentioned that you have a temp job. If you come to Panama you will need to have enough funds to live on. Under most circumstances expats are not allowed to work - although many (in this area mainly in Boquete) are working illegally. If they are caught they will likely be deported.

I plan to fly back and do assignments every now and then.  I am a nurse practitioner and there is a big need for us in the USA.  I may also teach English, do computer work so I have a few options.  Julie

There is a nurse in the Volcan area who does the same thing.

Do you mean she works in the states?  Julie

We felt much the same way. Panama City is too much for us at our age. But we are very happy in David. I wouldn't want to live in the center of town with all the traffic, activity, and messy looking streets but I love going there. We found a lovely area on the north edge of town and it's worked out wonderfully, great neighbors, attractive neighborhood, a bit cooler, quieter, next to the woods and river, etc.
Interesting - we just went to Las Olas yesterday and saw a minimum of trash on the beach. IMO the beaches a bit farther away are even more lovely.
What do you enjoy in the way of entertainment? This could be a problem here if you want concerts and shows. If you enjoy hiking in the woods and visiting beautiful places and other such things, you will have plenty to do.

Kris,
Thanks for writing.  I used to go to concerts and shows when I was younger but now I am into horses and animals.  I love the outdoors and ride my horse in lots of parks, ranches, etc.  It looks like Bouqete is my kind of place with the mountains and valleys and woods.  It sounds like you are happy there.  I am trying to find a sm place to rent.  Do you know anyone that is reputable, like how about Wolff realty or casa realty?  Julie

Horses and animals? This might be perfect! There are horses everywhere around here and so many beautiful places to ride. 
Write to Eduardo Horna. riochiriqui (at) gmail (dot) com He works in Boquete and David, is very ethical and reputable, and also speaks fluent English. He found the perfect house for us. Maybe he can help you too.

jultes wrote:

Kris,
Thanks for writing.  I used to go to concerts and shows when I was younger but now I am into horses and animals.  I love the outdoors and ride my horse in lots of parks, ranches, etc.  It looks like Bouqete is my kind of place with the mountains and valleys and woods.  It sounds like you are happy there.  I am trying to find a sm place to rent.  Do you know anyone that is reputable, like how about Wolff realty or casa realty?  Julie

Bpcahoon,
Agree with everything you say. But you just barely scratched the surface of the country.

We live in El Valle and the expats here started a litter cleanup and recycling program so our beautiful town is pretty clean. But litter is definitely my biggest peeve with Panama. Many positives for me here in El Valle-friendly locals, very safe, great expats, respect for local culture, simple living, and did I mention beautiful? Drawback to El Valle?-not much organized social activity. If I wasn't busy with a biz, I would start regular activities. Wouldn't take much...

As far as trash and litter, the best hope is the the likely next Prez. is an environmentalist. We'll see what happens...

Enough of the fluff for Panama. Now here's the reality....Forget about cheap living. The price of everything here has soared the past 4-5 years. Food prices are about the same as in the USSA. The price of medicines is outrageous and hospital care is off the charts if you don't have insurance.  The cost of living is about the same as the USSA now and even more, for electric and fuel. Dining out in good restaurants is expensive too.

We live about 4 hours from PC and gringe at the thought of having to go there for anything!!!

Your biggest problem areas are banking and immigration. The banks are not opening gringo accounts anymore bcoz of the IRS nonsense and if they do you would have needed to give up all your personal information including but not limited to your children's and parents info as well. Immigration is not only a nightmare of incompetence but a hellhole of bureaucratic bullshit for gringos. If you are anything but a gringo it's easy....but for gringos they like to screw you around for a few years. True you can get a carnet that you have to renew ever 6 months to a year but almost impossible to get your permanent cedula/residency. There are plenty of liars/lawyers who say "no problem, I can help you." Just remember, if their lips are moving they are lying. I've been here over 7 years and just finally gave up like 100's of other expats and are here over our legal time.

There is just a few of the problems with living here, so think carefully b4 deciding  on Panama. Maybe pick another country!!!

I have a beautiful operating organic fruit/veggie/vaca finca with water and a 2 story beautiful 6000sq' villa available. All equipment included. Cash but I prefer gold....no agents unless you have a hard buyer ready to buy.

Jim

Good luck

This has not been our experience at all!!
http://blog.thepanamaadventure.com/2013 … in-panama/

Renew a carnet every 6 months? Where did you get that idea? I've had a carnet (permanent residency) since 2004 and never had to renew it. I first came here for a visit, applied for my carnet with my lawyer, and she had it waiting for me when I moved.

A few months ago I got my E-cedula. No hassle at all - I used my wonderful lawyer. (Well, the only "hassle" was that it required a trip to Panama City - I don't like going there either.)

I read frequently on yahoo groups about new expats getting bank accounts. As I recall, Banco General is recommended a lot. I agree that the process of opening a bank account has no doubt gotten more onerous but that's the fault of the gestapo IRS and US government, not the banks in Panama. (Sooner or later that problem will come to a halt as the USSA will lose the status of having the reserve currency - and thus being able to tell the rest of the world how to handle their finances.)

I still love living in Panama and have never regretted my decision to move here. I love Latin America in general and I've spent time in Mexico and numerous Central and South American countries. Of all of them, I prefer living in Panama hands down. To each his own, however.

Where is your finca located, how many hectares, and what are you asking for it? (By the way, I love the picture of the dog. Yours?)

Great to see a person with the insight about the once great free country now know as the United Socialist States of America, soon to be known as the "New Free States of America"!!!

I've been here for over 7 years and all I get is screwed around by 3 lairs and the immigration morons. We've given up with the cedula stuff. We went there they basically said I had to start all over and the would issue another carnet good for 6 months then I could apply for my permanent cedula. I said why don't you just give it to me now??? They just stare at you or get up and leave. The have all my doc's and filings in the system so why do I have to start all over again bcoz they changed the law again??

I have over $1mil plus a Teca Finca, which is for sale as well, invested here so I'm pretty much stuck here. We left CR bcoz the USSA took it over so we left with 100's of other expats and came here. Little did we know that bagboy martinelli would sell out the country and the people. Moscoso told Bush to F off and she wasn't changing the Constitution to suit the USSA and their nation building goals. 

Don't get me wrong.....I like it here if it weren't for all the political corruption, militarized police, phony police check points, high prices, groceries that are outdated, short dated, store returns all from USSA vendors. True we don't pay any taxes but that is going to come sooner than later.

As far as info on the Finca goes, I'd rather not discuss that on this blog. You can communicate with me directly by email. fenixmgmt@gmail dot com.

Yes, the dog is mine along with 5 others and 2 cats. They are my KidZ.

Hi there. I am sad to hear that your overall experience was not up to par for you. I think you may have felt better if you had gone to Boquette or to Volcan. The elevation there is a bit over 4,000 so it is always pleasant, never too cool or too hot. There are lots of places to live and in communities that are wonderful. A couple of days sadly is simply not enough time to explore all of the areas of Panama. I have heard of some really nice places on the beach in various areas but it does take some time to check them out and see if it is what you want. We met a fantastic lady that is a realtor who speaks excellent English as well as a couple of fantastic attornies who would help you with the Pensionado visa which gives you wonderful benefits...better than any other country around.

If you have any specific questions we'd be happy to help. We have been involved in checking out Panama for months and just got back from eight days in Volcan and a full day in Panama City.

We have really enjoyed our time there.

joel and terre

We just spent a week in Volcan and we could not be happier. It is very quiet, very peaceful and very pretty. We have found a nice 3B2B house to rent not too far from the almost finished hospital. We can't wait to get back and start living. We have met so many wonderful local people as well as some very nice American expats. Just as in any place in the world, you have to take time to get to know people and hear their hearts. Lots of folks have lots of different opinions. We met a wonderful attorney who has a stellar reputation and has done lots of work for lots of US expats. Anyhow we love it and feel sad that there are those who live in other areas and cannot stand it. Perhaps the best thing for them is to live elsewhere and not pollute Panama for other newbies who may take everything said as fact. Just me...

joel

Thanks Kris, I appreciate the info.  How long have you lived in Panama?  Julie

We realize we only scratched the surface of the country and that is why we said we haven't ruled it out. It is a beautiful country and the Panamanian's that we came into contact with were the most wonderful, helpful & kind. We never felt unsafe anywhere we were (and we got lost in some dicey looking areas of the city)but its just like the US or wherever you go you need to be aware. I just know I would never want to live in PC.

We liked David much better but our next trip will be more geared to the coast/beach areas. I will also take the time to check out some of the other areas mentioned. We don't need organized social activities. Heat is not a factor for us as we are from Southern FL on the gulf coast.

So glad to hear about the litter cleanup!

jonoyakker wrote:

Bpcahoon,
Agree with everything you say. But you just barely scratched the surface of the country.

We live in El Valle and the expats here started a litter cleanup and recycling program so our beautiful town is pretty clean. But litter is definitely my biggest peeve with Panama. Many positives for me here in El Valle-friendly locals, very safe, great expats, respect for local culture, simple living, and did I mention beautiful? Drawback to El Valle?-not much organized social activity. If I wasn't busy with a biz, I would start regular activities. Wouldn't take much...

As far as trash and litter, the best hope is the the likely next Prez. is an environmentalist. We'll see what happens...

Six months now

jultes wrote:

Thanks Kris, I appreciate the info.  How long have you lived in Panama?  Julie

I am disappointed that you found that you would not be able to live to the standards that you want.  WE where hopeful that it would be possible to live for less. Can you add some specifics as to the barriers of living well in Panama?
Thank you, Jeff

Hello, I am a new arrival to Panama City - and shocked everyday by all the WASTE! And pollution. Everywhere.
I have learned that there in El Valle you built up kind of an anti-waste program - I am planning to go into schools and try to establish some consciousness for this beautiful country and nature before it is too late (for the nature and the kids - once used to throwing all waste out of the cars and on the beach...) - but don't know yet where to start and how. So I thought maybe build on someone's experience! Do you have a cotact for me?
Thanks a lot ni advance and Happy belated Earth Day
Maike

To Jeff - We are at an age where we can't yet retire (in our early 50's)and small business owners. We would have to open a business wherever we went but from many people we have talked to that is not an easy task and very time consuming. As for the life style I think that if you really look at the big picture it really is not cheaper unless you are willing to live like the locals, buy from the local markets for food, not have AC, not have hot water, renting vs. owning, do we want to give up our boat. The heat / humidity is not an issue as we are from SW FL and live on the water. When we were in Panama in Feb. it was 95 most days but it seemed that there was a breeze all the time. Its not a knock against Panama it's just that after doing a lot of research spending a week there we have to be realistic in what "we" feel comfortable with. We have moved a lot and been in many successful business ventures, when we look at something like this we do not let emotion take over, we are very realistic. We have seen many people move to FL thinking its going to be like vacation every day. It doesn't mean that we would never consider it, just right now in our life its not for us.