Verify Marriage Status in Brazil

We just bought an apartment from a woman who was listed as "seperado" on the RGI/escritura. Our lawyer and the cartorio both required her to get a new original protocolo and escritura showing her as divorced before we closed the deal. She had a QR code in her phone linking to the documents we needed at another cartorio, showing her as legally divorced. While this did not suffice for the RE transaction, I think there is an online way to find out, but you'll need a CPF and full legal name to get a search done. Might be tricky if you've just started dating her.

@Gasparzinho 777 I have full legal name and CPF.

It is important to differentiate between dating and real estate in this matter.

Perhaps, if you are dating someone, then their current and past relationship history is not so important. If things progress, and marriage is considered, then certainly. But until then it probably will not have too much impact.

But in real estate dealings it is crucial. Brazil law is quite clear - the spouse will get 50% unless you make specific arrangements before marriage. So if someone is married, and does not tell you, then you are potentially giving 25% of your property to a third party.

How to tell? Ask to see a recent birth certificate.

A Brazilian only has a birth certificate while they are single. Once they are married it is cancelled and becomes a marriage certificate; if divorced, a divorce certificate. They can never produce a birth certificate, as it no longer exists.

This is why real estate cartorios ask for birth certificates - because it is absolute proof that someone is single.  Of course this does not apply outside Brazil, but they do not know that!

@Gasparzinho 777

Equally as important, a married person cannot legally sell a property without the consent of their spouse. Hence the need for the cartorio to prove divorce in this case.

^^^ Exactly what our lawyer said.

@Alan279

Both cartorios I use in RJ state have online services, so, did you check to see if the one in Ilheus does as well ? If so, maybe you, or preferably, your lawyer, could make an jnquiry there. But, if you are trying to do so in a place where the other party may be well known to others, that may be difficult to keep quiet.

I'm not dating and I'm not involved in any real estate deals. I'm just curious because the woman that wanted to marry me last year told me she was divorced and I read that her marital status was "married" when she ran for city council recently.

10/19/24 I'm not dating and I'm not involved in any real estate deals. I'm just curious because the woman that wanted to marry me last year told me she was divorced and I read that her marital status was "married" when she ran for city council recently. -@alan279

That's because lying to the Justiça Eleitoral is crime; lying to you is just a sin, and she's already shown you how much THAT bothers her.   More proof that you had a narrow escape!

BTW, did she win the election?

@abthree She didn't win the election.

@Gasparzinho 777Equally as important, a married person cannot legally sell a property without the consent of their spouse. Hence the need for the cartorio to prove divorce in this case.

I should add that this also applies if the property is in one person's name - if married, they cannot sell it without the consent of their spouse, even if the spouse's name is not in the docs...

That is the same as what we call "dower rights" in Canada. Exact same application and intent.

@Peter Itamaraca And if the spouse is dead?

Provided your marriage certificate shows 50/50 common property rights, you use the spousal death certificate to change the escritura to the survivors name, the status to widowed, etc, and you reregister the RGI. That's what our lawyer says anyways.

Marriage regime aside for the moment.

Survivor's names (plural), possibly several lawyers involved. And there are specific laws about inheritance in Brazil.

A veritable gold mine for lawyers?

@Peter Itamaraca So, hypothetically, the woman couldn't sell her other property because she is technically still married after a not quite finalized divorce twenty years ago.

So she can't sell one of her apartments without the zombie husband's signature?

And she has little labor income in her advancing years, and virtually no government pension to look forward to.

She has an interest only construction loan at Secredi and has to pay the ever increasing montbly interest payments.

What does she do to solve her cash flow problem? Marry a supposedly rich gringo? Run for vereador? These attempts have failed. What's next?

@Gasparzinho777 - Your lawyer was probably referring to a specific case, as he did not mention children's rights.

@Alan279 - When a spouse dies, their share is split 50% to the surviving spouse and 50% to any children. So you can end up with a situation where the surviving spouse may own 75% but still cannot sell without the agreement of ALL of any children as they will share the other 25%. This is when Brazil real estate law can get very complicated... If one of the parties does not agree to the sale (even if they only own a tiny share), it cannot legally be sold.

On a couple of occasions I have bought investments which appears to be in one person's name, but the contract (and escritura) has required 8 or more signatures!

You can imagine if any of the children get married, then acrimoniously divorced, followed by a second marriage and children, how it may become virtually impossible to achieve a legal sale...!

@PeterItamaraca

We didn't breed......kkkkkkkk......so yes, a specific situation.

If you create a will however, children have no rights then, as I have been told. Now, of course, any will can be contested. Having said that IMHO, they are usually held up as valid however, as evidenced by the recent case of the divorced socialite in Miami whose name escapes me. She didn't get a penny after it was all said and done from her ex-millionaire deceased husband. Brasilian law can also be influenced by the "homem de mala".........

On a couple of occasions I have bought investments which appears to be in one person's name, but the contract (and escritura) has required 8 or more signatures! -@Peter Itamaraca

Would you recommend to have a 15 day limit to the completion of the sale?  And if the sale is not completed because of those "technical" delays, is there recourse and what would that be?

The reason for asking is mainly to make sure to answer the original question....

What does she do to solve her cash flow problem? Marry a supposedly rich gringo? Run for vereador? These attempts have failed. What's next? -@alan279

@alan279, just in case you are writing a book here - my wife would say that she is a gold digger and that anyone who would try to "rescue" her would get into more trouble.  The issue here is that she needs to decide how to cut her losses and resolve outstanding debts and problems.

Anyone who legitimately wants to help her should not have to deal with her past baggage - as this would weigh heavily on the relationship.

@Pablo888 Maybe a book, or maybe a telenovela?

Would you recommend to have a 15 day limit to the completion of the sale? And if the sale is not completed because of those "technical" delays, is there recourse and what would that be?-@Pablo888

15 days is a bit tight in Brazil, unless your broker or attorney has completed all the due diligence, and everything is very straightforward. A deadline of 30 days is more normal.

But if the deadline in a contract is passed and no funds have changed hands, then the deal is dead, although of course it could be resurrected by the parties if they both wish so to do. Simply rewrite the contract with new dates...

Sometimes a deposit will have already been paid, in which case it is common to include a clause in the contract to the effect that if the buyer pulls out, the seller keeps the deposit; if the seller pulls out he has to pay 2 x the deposit to the buyer.

Without a deposit (or a clause in a contract that specifies compensation in the event of a default), a contract is actually legally unenforceable as it has no value. When you give me a bunch of money, I will give you the keys to the house; no money - no keys, you keep the money I keep the house. Nobody loses...

Sometimes a deposit will have already been paid, in which case it is common to include a clause in the contract to the effect that if the buyer pulls out, the seller keeps the deposit; if the seller pulls out he has to pay 2 x the deposit to the buyer.-@Peter Itamaraca

@alan279, great way to spice things up for your book / telenovela....  Have a contract with the woman where you leave a small deposit to ensure you get all the desired information, and if there are complications, the woman owes you twice the amount of the deposit.....

That's a way to get both the real estate and the woman or make a profit if neither pans out....

...Have a contract with the woman where you leave a small deposit to ensure you get all the desired information, and if there are complications, the woman owes you twice the amount of the deposit.....That's a way to get both the real estate and the woman or make a profit if neither pans out.... -@Pablo888

It was a simple deal, I offered to give her all my money and she could do with it as she liked when we married. Thats marriage in the US, community property.

When she learned that I had spent all my money on supporting her temporary cash flow problems, she left.

I had no interest in acquiring her property, and she was emphatic that I have no claim on her "patrimonio".

It turns out that people over 60 years old in Brazil can only marry with property separate (bens separado).

If only my lawyer wasn't a complete idiot, I could have mitigated the machinations of the black widow.

But then I'd not have a telenovela script to sell? 😀

@Peter Itamaraca Can a person in Brazil obtain a construction loan without a spouse's signature?

@alan279

Theoretically, if she has a bank account in her sole name, it should be possible to get a small loan in her name alone.

However, almost certainly the bank will have her recorded as married, and if she is going to construct (and she will have to justify what the loan is for), then her husband will automatically receive a share of the building so he will have to sign as well. The bank will also require security for any construction loan, and if this is in the form of property then again she will be recorded as married and it will require the husband's signature.

It is a fair question to ask why Brazilians sometimes do not complete the estate process after death, or divorce after the termination of a marriage. Usually this involves the payment of costs, and in particular taxes (of which there are frequently many outstanding especially after a death), and this is something they hate paying! And the process can take years to complete and involve lots of legal fees as well...

@Peter Itamaraca She said she divorced twenty years ago, but discovered that the divorce wasn't "finalized" as we were about to get a marriage license last December.

She has an apartment building, lives in one unit and rents the other units. She has owned an old house on my street for several years and rented it to tourists.

She razed the old house last year and started construction of a new building with three floors of 80m2 apartments. She said she had a construction loan for the full costs of the project.

But she had to pay the interest every month. She had little work and three vacant apartments. I paid some of her bills, expecting to soon live with her in a new apartment by the sea. Happily ever after.

When I couldn't pay any more of her bills, she left.

I know she had a bank loan, I made a payment to the bank. I know she was constructing an apartment building, as I watched the construction progress from my veranda. I saw her existing apartment building.

As I run the numbers, she needed to sell one or two existing apartments to pay the construction interest on the new building. But could she sell any property without her husband's signature? Did she get a construction loan without his signature? Is his name on the existing apartment building? Or the new building?

I'm just curious. I gave serious thought to constructing a small apartment building in the US twenty years ago. Such a project appears to be quite daunting in Brazil. 

@alan279

Construction in Brazil can be daunting, but the best way is to carry out complete due diligence before starting anything, using an attorney if necessary. If anything fishy comes up - walk away, and look for a new project. Not all Brazilian land and homes are messy like this, but it can be a nightmare if you are not prepared for it.

I am in court on 1st Nov for a judgement on an investment I made 7 years ago - and this is just to sort out some missing paperwork - a previous owner died a long time ago after signing a contract but without completing the escritura. I am certain to win, as there is no opposition, but it needs a judge to sign off on it. BUT I knew this would happen right from the get go... It simply meant I could rent the property but not sell it legally until the case was settled.

I think I do not have the courage to build anything in Brazil.

An American friend never finished the divorce with his Brazilian wife. He died in the US. She rents the house to tourists.

@alan279 Funny You Should Ask. I am responding to this post from my home in Northeast Brazil as a Permanent Brazilian Resident ONLY because of my Brazilian Daughter. My wife and I had some document missteps along the way that resulted in us being married in the USA, but not in Brazil.

We are going to have to get married and verified again in Brazil. You'all are invited.

Roddie in Retirement🕵