Some schools are refusing to accept the old ‘A’ ID card.

ricky wrote:

Hi Caroline,

that is one question I'm not sure about !

As England is not part of the Schengen area that might complicate things.

I wish you luck that things get worked out. Please let me know what reply you get so I can help others in your situation.

Cheers
Ricky

Yes Ricky, I will let you know. From what I can gather, once you are in a Schengen area, after 3 months and becoming resident, you don't need one...Who knows?!
Will keep you informed

Caroline

toonarmy9752 wrote:

bottom line is as an EU citizen - as long as you can prove your entitlement to EU rights by any other form of documentation the e-Residency card is not required. simple really.

As simple as this:

‘……….the European Commission has confirmed in writing that non-Maltese EU citizens ‘are entitled to prove their right of residence in Malta and any right connected to it by any means of proof (e.g. work contract, former and current payslips, utility bills, etc.).’…………..’

Source:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=291993

Feel free to contact Christian Bulzomi to verify the above paragraph.

Christian Bulzomi

Legal Officer

Christian.bulzomi[at]ec.europa.eu

European Commission
DG JUST – UNIT C2
Citizenship and Free movement
MO59 06/91
B-1049 Brussels/Belgium

+32 2 29 85 878

ricky wrote:

If you and they are British you can apply for passports through the British Embassy in Paris

As from June, it moved back to the UK
https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

Hi Caroline,

you have to register your children that were born outside of the UK and have their British citizenship determined and a UK birth certificate issued.

If you did that and have the UK birth certificate you are ok otherwise you should do it now !

I did the same with my children who were born in Germany.

Malta cannot make your children into UK citizens -)))

Cheers
Ricky

ricky wrote:

Hi Caroline,

you have to register your children that were born outside of the UK and have their British citizenship determined and a UK birth certificate issued.

If you did that and have the UK birth certificate you are ok otherwise you should do it now !

I did the same with my children who were born in Germany.

Malta cannot make your children into UK citizens -)))

Cheers
Ricky

Ricky, Wow! I had no idea, with all the officials I have spoken too, no one ever said a thing. Where did you find that out?? Where do I do it??

Caroline

Ricky,

I found the site. It doesn't say I have to or that I need it for a UK passport but I will do it anyway, will make life a lot easier!!

Cheers
Caroline

Ps...Just seen the price...170 euros!!!

Hi Caroline,

I have 4 sons who were all born outside of the UK.

Depending on the birth dates my oldest had British citizenship and not German although born in Germany even with a German mother.

The three younger ones were born in Germany and German citizens but I had them naturalized and UK birth certificates issued.

It is not about the passport but about the British birth certificate. The Maltese birth certificate says nothing about the citizenship but just where the child was born and who the parents are.

At the moment your children have no official citizenship so obviously Byron's EU citizen rights do not apply! Strange but that is the way it is.

Cheers
Ricky

I would like to point out that I know some people who haven't registered...and their reasons are not to 'avoid anything', its just because it is all so confusing that nobody knows what they need to/ should / have to do, and any advice received is just as confusing and conflicting too!

Damsel wrote:

nobody knows what they need to/ should / have to do

If you live in Malta for more than 3 months you have to apply for an eResidence card

I mean absolutely no insult to anyone but it is my thinking that all this confusion is the result of the (general) Maltese mentality.
They are a very parochial race and I remember being told in the 70's that there were those who would not move out of their own parish. There are some, who living on Gozo, never go to the mainland. All some know of the world is that it is limited only by how far they have to travel to exist from day to day. Then they get the opportunity for investment, money!!!! from the EU. To them that's all that mattered, how much money they would get to use to attract more tourists; their 'cash cows'. Are they interested in the aims and objectives of the EU? Of course not!! Why should they be? And let's face it, not all members/residents of the EU believe they should be members/residents either. Here, at Government level they know what they should do but they also need to remain popular, so whilst appearing to comply, nothing is really enforced as it should be, so their voters remain appeased. Now, having stated that what also needs to be remembered is that they are also a very proud and resilient race who have been ruled over by others throughout their history until relatively recently. (Another theory as to why money is so important to them is that it assuages their sense of insecurity; it compensates; money becomes their security. This happens in other countries with a similar history of occupation and rule too.) Although they have their political parties they are all very nationalistic and they will not be told what to do by anyone, anymore! If one compares the race to that of an individual’s development, I would suggest that they could be seen as adolescents. They are convinced they know but have much to learn.
This is a sweeping generalisation, I know that there are many exceptions but when dealing with many ‘front line’ staff we also have to remember that they cannot make decisions only do what they have been told to do. It also gives some an opportunity to put their own prejudices into action, which they do and then they hide behind the ‘rules is rules’ mantra.
But, just think on……there is another country that acted in a very similar manner and some would argue, still does.
That country is Britain.

I agree Mick. I have always felt, the fighting spirit, that has helped generations survive countless invaisions, is the fighting spirit that remains and they were able to say no and stand up to their beliefs until they joined the EU. As you say, they try to say no but then thier hand is forced and we suffer in the confusion.
It is something that I like about the Maltese. It's only when you get caught up in it all it drives you mad!!

"But, just think on……there is another country that acted in a very similar manner and some would argue, still does.
That country is Britain".

Please explain how Great Britain is or was similar to Malta.
Did Malta have an empire that covered the globe?
Did Malta develop infrastructure and democratic systems in countries that still exist and thrive today?
Does the UK allow EU citizens to enter the country and settle without any controls?
Great Briton has a history of excepting immigrants and immigration with open arms.
I could go on but please, their histories may be linked but they are not the same.

Terry

tearnet wrote:

"But, just think on……there is another country that acted in a very similar manner and some would argue, still does.
That country is Britain".

Please explain how Great Britain is or was similar to Malta.
Did Malta have an empire that covered the globe?
Did Malta develop infrastructure and democratic systems in countries that still exist and thrive today?
Does the UK allow EU citizens to enter the country and settle without any controls?
Great Briton has a history of excepting immigrants and immigration with open arms.
I could go on but please, their histories may be linked but they are not the same.

Terry

I think you may have missed what I was trying to state, that refers to the last part.....

This is a sweeping generalisation, I know that there are many exceptions but when dealing with many ‘front line’ staff we also have to remember that they cannot make decisions only do what they have been told to do. It also gives some an opportunity to put their own prejudices into action, which they do and then they hide behind the ‘rules is rules’ mantra.
But, just think on……there is another country that acted in a very similar manner and some would argue, still does.
That country is Britain.

Britain used to and to a great extent deals with less advantaged public, immigrants and asylum seekers in very much the same manner. As one who used to work, allegedly with but more usually against, Education Departments, Benefits Agency and others I can assure you that their attitudes and methods of dealing with entitled people is very similar.

Hi all,

I think the comments are getting off-topic from the original post which was titled:

Some schools are refusing to accept the old 'A' ID card.

Lets not water down the contents of the thread referring to the original post.

Cheers
Ricky

I am just suggesting that if one gets to understand the Maltese 'psyche' then one can understand better the issues and perhaps how to deal with them. Not that I know, I'm just trying to learn.
I think that applies to any situation but I also take your point.

I think you will find that every country in the world will have its rules and staff that may or may not be flexible in interpreting those rules.
We lived in France an EU country that regularly flouts EU rules and insists that all forms and procedures are carried out in French, no translated tax forms etc. A country that regularly refuses or makes it very difficult for  EU immigrants to join the health care system and aids the movement of illegal TCN's into the UK.
The point is that if you live in a country then you should expect to abide by the laws of that country.
If the requirement is that you need an EID then that's it until the law changes. That fact that you may think its unfair has no bearing on the requirement.
The process may be a pain but a least it's carried out in a Language you understand, it could be a lot harder if they insisted it was carried out in Maltese!
The whole EU thing is a red herring, forget it ,you are in Malta just suck it up and move on or move out!!

Terry

Exactly my point!

ricky wrote:

Hi all,

I think the comments are getting off-topic from the original post which was titled:

Some schools are refusing to accept the old 'A' ID card.

Lets not water down the contents of the thread referring to the original post.

Cheers
Ricky

I don't think its off topic, if schools are refusing to accept the old ID its because there is a requirement for the new EID.
People keep dragging out the "Its against EU law" mantra, so what?
Its not against Maltese law and that's where you live, start the process for EID, if you have to pay for your children's education until the card come through then do it, if you can't afford it then give something up or you probably don't meet the requirement for residency anyway!
The bits about Passports for children was intended (I guess) to assist in them being able make the registration process easier.

Terry

Damsel wrote:

I would like to point out that I know some people who haven't registered...and their reasons are not to 'avoid anything', its just because it is all so confusing that nobody knows what they need to/ should / have to do, and any advice received is just as confusing and conflicting too!

i have to agree that many of the older generation are in that boat too. its a good job theyre not immigrants theyd be sent back!

redmik wrote:

I am just suggesting that if one gets to understand the Maltese 'psyche'

Not possible.

I was thinking and the whole point of this thread is about providing proof of residency and how we have the right as a EU citizen to reside in any EU country and whilst in that country you are protected by EU law to be treated the same as the natives.
In the UK and a patient comes into the dental clinic and says they are on income support, you don't ask for all their paperwork, you don't ask if they are resident, you get them to sign a declaration, confirming that they are aware, that if the information is incorrect, that they will be fined, THAT is what is giving equal rights to all EU citizens, being treated the same.
You could argue that it causes costs to the UK government, fraud etc but then in that case, EVERYONE should be asked to see all paperwork, residency etc.
This is a dental clinic example but it extends everywhere, work, hospital, prescriptions, the list is endless.

exactly

coxf0001 wrote:

I was thinking and the whole point of this thread is about providing proof of residency and how we have the right as a EU citizen to reside in any EU country and whilst in that country you are protected by EU law to be treated the same as the natives.
In the UK and a patient comes into the dental clinic and says they are on income support, you don't ask for all their paperwork, you don't ask if they are resident, you get them to sign a declaration, confirming that they are aware, that if the information is incorrect, that they will be fined, THAT is what is giving equal rights to all EU citizens, being treated the same.
You could argue that it causes costs to the UK government, fraud etc but then in that case, EVERYONE should be asked to see all paperwork, residency etc.
This is a dental clinic example but it extends everywhere, work, hospital, prescriptions, the list is endless.

I accept the dental clinic example but I know that it does not extend everywhere, work, hospital, prescriptions, the list is endless.

My email to the originators of the article:

Hi, I have been following this with interest via GozoNews and Patricia Graham has kindly suggested that |I contact the group by this method to ask the questions;
Can anyone state how many times this has happened?
Can anyone cite specific examples?
Thank you,

The response (reproduced in relevant part only)

Thank you for contacting the "Up in Arms" action group.
Regarding the "school enrollment issue" we are currently investigating how many children this affects.  The immediate unconfirmed report is that due to procedure changes within the Department of Education  children not in receipt of the e-residency card will be asked to produce one and that the extended 'A' ID card is not being accepted as a means to enroll children at school.  It has however been verified in two instances to date, (two verified- six unverified)  that children already enrolled and attending school have been asked to produce this card in order for them to remain in school. 
Please bear with us whilst we take the time to verify with the Department of Education exactly what the procedures are, which should be done by tomorrow, and if there are any temporary solutions to this issue.

My reply to that:
Thank you Patricia for such a swift response and the reason I was asking the questions is that the article suggests that this is a major issue and whilst I agree it is for those affected, in the ‘grand scheme of things’ it appears that there are only a very few instances.
Now I  know on matters of principle, one instance is enough, however do you not think perhaps that the released article was a little premature and could be quite startling to some?
Lynn and I have no issues in this respect and our connections with Malta for me go back 40 years and for Lynn, since her birth at Mtarfa, though she is British.
We sometimes feel that the EU connection is sometimes ill used when dealing with Malta’s bureaucracy and an understanding of the Maltese psyche may help towards better understanding and lead to better solutions.
After all, it’s not that much different to British bureaucracy, especially when dealing with public departments, particularly when disadvantaged.
Anyway, I prattle, so thanks again,
Regards,

redmik wrote:

coxf0001 wrote:

I was thinking and the whole point of this thread is about providing proof of residency and how we have the right as a EU citizen to reside in any EU country and whilst in that country you are protected by EU law to be treated the same as the natives.
In the UK and a patient comes into the dental clinic and says they are on income support, you don't ask for all their paperwork, you don't ask if they are resident, you get them to sign a declaration, confirming that they are aware, that if the information is incorrect, that they will be fined, THAT is what is giving equal rights to all EU citizens, being treated the same.
You could argue that it causes costs to the UK government, fraud etc but then in that case, EVERYONE should be asked to see all paperwork, residency etc.
This is a dental clinic example but it extends everywhere, work, hospital, prescriptions, the list is endless.

I accept the dental clinic example but I know that it does not extend everywhere, work, hospital, prescriptions, the list is endless.

Maybe it has changed in the UK now Mick but I have never been asked to provide my paperwork/residency or passports when getting a prescription or going to the hospital and was unaware of anyone else in the queue being asked either?
Are you saying, that when someone, with slightly darker skin or a funny accent, is asked to provide residence proof when picking up their prescription?? Political correctness in the UK wouldn't allow it??

coxf0001 wrote:

I was thinking and the whole point of this thread is about providing proof of residency and how we have the right as a EU citizen to reside in any EU country and whilst in that country you are protected by EU law to be treated the same as the natives.
In the UK and a patient comes into the dental clinic and says they are on income support, you don't ask for all their paperwork, you don't ask if they are resident, you get them to sign a declaration, confirming that they are aware, that if the information is incorrect, that they will be fined, THAT is what is giving equal rights to all EU citizens, being treated the same.
You could argue that it causes costs to the UK government, fraud etc but then in that case, EVERYONE should be asked to see all paperwork, residency etc.
This is a dental clinic example but it extends everywhere, work, hospital, prescriptions, the list is endless.

If you lived in North Korea you would probably be shot for writing on a forum like this but the point is you are not in the UK or North Korea you are in MALTA!! Its their country and their rules, despite the EU .
The fact is you do not need an EID just to live in Malta, only to use some reduced price or free services that the government provide for residents.

"Its their country and their rules, despite the EU"

not quite sure if that is the case anymore....especially the rules bit..... if thats what is wanted here and if they need that to remain then malta needs to do some hard re-negotiation of their EU membership or LEAVE

tearnet wrote:

coxf0001 wrote:

I was thinking and the whole point of this thread is about providing proof of residency and how we have the right as a EU citizen to reside in any EU country and whilst in that country you are protected by EU law to be treated the same as the natives.
In the UK and a patient comes into the dental clinic and says they are on income support, you don't ask for all their paperwork, you don't ask if they are resident, you get them to sign a declaration, confirming that they are aware, that if the information is incorrect, that they will be fined, THAT is what is giving equal rights to all EU citizens, being treated the same.
You could argue that it causes costs to the UK government, fraud etc but then in that case, EVERYONE should be asked to see all paperwork, residency etc.
This is a dental clinic example but it extends everywhere, work, hospital, prescriptions, the list is endless.

If you lived in North Korea you would probably be shot for writing on a forum like this but the point is you are not in the UK or North Korea you are in MALTA!! Its their country and their rules, despite the EU .
The fact is you do not need an EID just to live in Malta, only to use some reduced price or free services that the government provide for residents.

So, if Malta turned round and said, that's it, all EU citizens must leave Malta now, would you say, oh well, that's Malta's rules??

wasnt there a rule during WW2 that all jews had to be rounded up and gassed - ah well its the rules so thats what must happen. no questions no challenges and it must be right!!!!!! despite the geneva convention.

harsh analogy but nevertheless true.

coxf0001 wrote:

redmik wrote:

coxf0001 wrote:

I was thinking and the whole point of this thread is about providing proof of residency and how we have the right as a EU citizen to reside in any EU country and whilst in that country you are protected by EU law to be treated the same as the natives.
In the UK and a patient comes into the dental clinic and says they are on income support, you don't ask for all their paperwork, you don't ask if they are resident, you get them to sign a declaration, confirming that they are aware, that if the information is incorrect, that they will be fined, THAT is what is giving equal rights to all EU citizens, being treated the same.
You could argue that it causes costs to the UK government, fraud etc but then in that case, EVERYONE should be asked to see all paperwork, residency etc.
This is a dental clinic example but it extends everywhere, work, hospital, prescriptions, the list is endless.

I accept the dental clinic example but I know that it does not extend everywhere, work, hospital, prescriptions, the list is endless.

Maybe it has changed in the UK now Mick but I have never been asked to provide my paperwork/residency or passports when getting a prescription or going to the hospital and was unaware of anyone else in the queue being asked either?
Are you saying, that when someone, with slightly darker skin or a funny accent, is asked to provide residence proof when picking up their prescription?? Political correctness in the UK wouldn't allow it??

Please read what I wrote earlier again, which was,

Britain used to and to a great extent deals with less advantaged public, immigrants and asylum seekers in very much the same manner. As one who used to work, allegedly with but more usually against, Education Departments, Benefits Agency and others I can assure you that their attitudes and methods of dealing with entitled people is very similar.

I also know that when it comes to letting property, full nationality and residence status checks are carried out as we rent out our property. Not just private renting either, also public tenancy procedures are the same. I know that because my daughter works for one of the largest public accomodation companies in Britain.

is that an across the board process for every agent? that they must adhere to.

Mick,

I wasn't aware of this, has certainly changed in the last 9 years.

How would you rent a property then? You don't have to register your residency for 3 months. If you get a job in the UK, how on earth would you get a house??

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/toug … mmigration

New measures announced in today’s (8 May 2013) Queen’s Speech will help tackle illegal immigration and ensure those living in the private rented sector have leave to remain in this country.

First set out by the Prime Minister in March, new legislation will stop rogue landlords cashing in from renting homes to illegal migrants; and new rules will ensure fair play in taxpayer-funded social housing.

Government plans for tackling illegal immigration in private rented accommodation would impose, as early as April next year, new requirements on landlords to check that every adult they let a house to is entitled to be in the UK.  In May, when the plans were trailed in the Queen’s Speech, the government suggested they would apply only to high risk parts of the private sector, such as houses in multiple occupation.

http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/migrat … gration-st

But the plans now cover any property let for rent, including short-term licenses and even long stays in hotels, and possibly people who take in lodgers.  No one knows how many private landlords there are in Britain, but a good guess is that at least two million property owners or agents will have to start checking immigration documents if the scheme goes ahead.

My understanding is that this is done in the public sector also.

coxf0001 wrote:

You don't have to register your residency for 3 months. If you get a job in the UK, how on earth would you get a house??

You can register before the 3 months are up - in Malta you have to register before starting work

coxf0001 wrote:

Mick,

I wasn't aware of this, has certainly changed in the last 9 years.

How would you rent a property then? You don't have to register your residency for 3 months. If you get a job in the UK, how on earth would you get a house??

Provided you can prove, 'leave to remain' then no probs.
And that I believe includes children, hence the need for their passports.

georgeingozo wrote:

coxf0001 wrote:

You don't have to register your residency for 3 months. If you get a job in the UK, how on earth would you get a house??

You can register before the 3 months are up - in Malta you have to register before starting work

You can't register for residency on work grounds until you have the job and job contract, so where would you live until that is sorted?

Mick, at least they are doing what they are suppose to do "if the scheme goes ahead, EVERYONE will be asked for proof of residency"

This is it, the schools are not asking everyone for proof of residency, they are just asking the people who look like they don't.
The children should come first, educated whilst the evidence of residency is checked by the authoroties?

Hi Caroline,

I don't know where you got the impression that the UK is a free-for-all health-care paradise !

3 years ago the the German girlfriend of my son , who at that time was a carer for my mother in the UK, was denied any free treatment in the UK because she was not considered a resident and was not working herself and had lost her entitlement from Germany as she was not working there anymore.

Maybe she did something wrong or had the wrong skin colour but for her, just being in the UK, did not give her free treatment for anything!

Cheers
Ricky

coxf0001 wrote:

This is it, the schools are not asking everyone for proof of residency, they are just asking the people who look like they don't.
The children should come first, educated whilst the evidence of residency is checked by the authoroties?

Agreed but it also appears that this has happened in a very small number of cases only and the reports have not been verified. (See my emails etc.)

Also as I wrote:

I know that there are many exceptions but when dealing with many ‘front line’ staff we also have to remember that they cannot make decisions only do what they have been told to do. It also gives some an opportunity to put their own prejudices into action, which they do and then they hide behind the ‘rules is rules’ mantra.

And that happens in the UK.

What I am trying to say is the same as Terry and George et al.
We are guests in another's country. They set the rules. And, they are very little different to anyone else, including Britain's.

Hi Ricky, I am getting the impression it is changing. I can only go by my experience years ago.
When patients came into the clinics, we never asked if they were entitled, nor when I got prescriptions etc. I had presumed it was the same now...it seems not!

Caroline