Education advice please

Hello,  this link may be of interest to you if you haven't reviewed it already

https://hslda.org/hs/international/Hungary/default.asp

Sorry I cannot be of more assistance, I HS my kids in neighboring Romania...which is a slightly different game

There are typically Facebook groups for homeschooling in various countries, maybe try searching some?

Romaniac
Expat.com Experts Team

@Romaniac  Thank you so much for responding.  I shall check out the link too.  Thanks again.

SueinHullUK wrote:

Hi everyone,

Just looking for a bit of advice on home educating my son who is 12.. when we eventually move over to Hungary permanently. (Probably in about 6 months). I have visited a school in a nearby village where we are going to live, and spoke to the Head, it would seem my son would have to be fluent in Hungarian before joining the school as there are no English teachers there. My questions are:

I am considering homeschooling him until the age of 16 (which i think is the compulsory age in Hungary), but am struggling to find information on HOW to do it?

Do they follow a Hungarian curriculum and can it be done in English?

I understand my child has to enrol at a school to take the statutory tests, does anyone have any school recommendations?

We will be living in Kisszekely (Tolna), are any other Expats doing home schooling around this area? 

I really appreciate any information.  Thanks very much.

Kisszekely is really out in the sticks.  The only things it's vaguely near are Paks (nuclear power station) and Balaton (closes down during winter). Are you sure you want to live there? 

The headteacher is correct, not speaking Hungarian out there would be quite a difficulty.  Moreover, it'd be very isolating at the beginning.  Remedial language lessons would be needed.  My MIL did that kind of thing - she doesn't speak English and is now retired.  But it was all aimed at equipping those particular kids for Hungarian school.

Conversely, there are problems the other way. Helping with homework in Hungarian would be nigh on impossible.  I don't speak Hungarian and I find it very difficult, if not impossible to help with homework. I cannot help there so I end up doing the "practical" things like football or art where language is less necessary.  That's despite being well qualified academically in "difficult" numerate subjects.

Anyway, maybe 7 years ago, we looked into home schooling as we didn't like the schools in the area we live.   It is possible but as was said, you need to follow the curriculum because of the tests.  We found the establishment put barriers in our way to stop us doing it.  We were even told it was illegal (apparently it's not).  There are other weird things that need to be done for school - vaccinations and a minimum weight/health tests.   

Even if you home school, you need to find a qualified teacher to do the assessments. Finding one who speaks English is very difficult.  Mrs Fluffy's relatives are mostly teachers and none of them speak English.

In the end, we gave up with it.  Our kids are bilingual anyway.  So we sent our kids to the local school  but then we got stuck on choosing a secondary school (11+). To get what we wanted, Mrs Fluffy has to transport them 8km to a school in another village.   

Sending them to a Hungarian school made them even more Hungarian than they were before.

You might be able to track down a "home schooling" association or something in the UK, then ask them about parallel organisations in Hungary.

You could even ask the British schools in Hungary about it.  They would almost certainly know.

BTW, there are boarding schools in Hungary.  Mrs Fluffy's cousin was sent from the sticks (down near Romania) to Budapest to live at a school there.  Obviously the education was excellent because she's now a scientific researcher with a PhD from a prestigious UK university.

SueinHullUK wrote:

I am considering homeschooling him until the age of 16

Are you sure you want to keep your son isolated from other kids of his age and have him grow up as an outsider, a stranger, a weirdo? In small, remote villages like Kisszekely there won't be many people and kids who speak english, he won't have friends. Boarding schools, as others have mentioned, are a good option, I found a list with shools that have classes in english: http://kettannyelvu.com/kie/?p=tip_altalanos

I didn't want to burst your bubble but as some other posters have mentioned, your child would be a bit of a "weirdo" maybe even some mean kids would call him the "village fool" for not speaking HUngarian and being from a different country.
I mean your planning on moving out to what even my Hungarian husband called,"The country-country".
I have posted in the past a few examples of how difficult it was for children of Hungarians who returned to HUngary to live.
These 2 families we knew spoke HUngarian is the US to their children but their kids had a non typical accent in Hungarian.
When they went to school, all the kids ripped them apart.
Both families gave up everything in the US, sold out their homes, quit jobs etc. and have a nicer home and retired early in HUngary.
Their kids were however so miserable that within the first year they returned to the US and had to start over.
We ran into one of these families in a large store in Las Vegas, they told my husband in person how horrible it was for their kids.
My husband had worked in the same co. as this man, he was a Gypsy man , super nice guy. My husband and I visited his mother in Hungary before they couple moved back. She was excited to have her grandkids coming back to HU to live.
Sad it didn't work out at all for them.
The boys spoke Hungarian but with a accent, they had nice tennis shoes and clothing so their school mates made fun of them all the time, it was a nightmare. When we saw the couple in the store in Vegas the guy was so depressed, having to start all over at the co, from the bottom. Lesson learned, don't cut down / burn bridges behind you.
We were just visiting the US and retired ourselves but by then our son was an adult on his own.That couple said maybe someday when their kids grew up they may return to HU but until then no way and they both were native Hungarians.
The other HU couple with a 12 year old daughter moved to a village, not all that remote  but a village in HU bought the best house in town, shipped over their big American car and retired. The couple was older when they had their girl so the man was collecting SS from the US. Easy life for the parents.
Their daughter hated school, came home crying all the time. Kids made fun of her in every way, boys and girls, they were jealous. Her accent was weird, her way of dressing was weird( too nice for the other kids) in the end within the first year they sold what they could in HU and returned to the US, forgot where they moved to but no fancy house for them.
Parents should think of how their moves will effect their children, sometimes we have to put our own dreams on hold for awhile.
We moved from a nice home in S. Cal to a nice home in New Mexico when our now 41 years old son was 16.
After about one year we all moved to Hawaii, our son had been born in Hawaii.
He hated it, didn't have friends, didn't speak the local way in Hawaii and spent over a year in his room, didn't even want to see the beaches.
Kids get depressed when they have radical moves like picking up to a new culture.
Not all kids go crazy and sad but some are more sensitive then others, to this day our son says we ruined his teenage years.
I suppose that's why they say being a parent means giving up your life for someone else.
I just thought about a women I met in the US embassy here in Budapest last Oct. 
I was doing paperwork for my US SS and she was waiting with me to get a new US passport for her daughter who was 12 yeas old. The women was born in Hungary, lived for 15 or so years in the US where her girl was born, she was divorced from a US military man, a black US citizen.
The girl, her mom and a few siblings had been in HU less then a year and were going back to the US because that one child the girl who was with her at the embassy was miserable in Hungary. They had come back to HU she and her kids to help out her parents, her father, the grandfather had been very ill.
The girl was teased all the time in school and this was in Budapest, she seems a very shy bi racial girl. Even with a parent and grandparents who spoke HUngarian, they kids hardly spoke it at all, the girl was even going to the American school a private school in Budapest and still was unhappy, didn't like anything about HUngary.
They were getting the new passport so they could move back to Conn.
Sad, that' s just my experience and my advice would be to put off a full time move for a few years , let your kids grow up where they feel comfortable and do not have to try and make new friends and fit into a new culture, not just a new town but a whole new culture. You as adults are going to have a hard enough time fitting in, kids always get the brunt on it from mean spiritied children their own age. Lifetime scares.

My two youngest speak Hungarian totally fluently without accents. But in these times, my 11 year old was teased in kindergarten (about 6 years old) over not being "entirely Hungarian".  So that wasn't good.  But now, because it they all know she can speak English as well, she's very popular for some reason - probably because she did the English homework in 30 seconds and then helped everyone else.  She was against speaking English previously because of the kindergarten experience but now she's revelling in the attention.

My son is also popular because he's a nice kid, really gets on with his friends, is good natured and is very sporty.  He's not so "engaged" with English but understands everything.

So mixed bag really over time.

Not that long ago but even recently it was a time of nationalism when Jobbik was on the ascendancy.  No. 1 Fluffyette had to take up folk dancing.  Other useful sports skills supposedly offered at ethnic included archery and horse riding.  We got kitted out for horse riding (not cheap) and found the programme got cancelled. Riding hats make good cycle helmets.

Sounds cool that your kids do archery and ride horses.
In my previous posts I mentioned both my sisters doing those activities, not really Hungarian but more of a native American activity.
Almost the same thing when one thinks about the past, having survival skills never hurts.
My talent is getting thrown off horses and blacking out for 8 hours.
Everyone has different talents.
Super cool that your children know Hungarian so well.
As far as being teased about being only "part" Hungarian that seems a issue here in Hungary as well.
Many years back when we rented a home in the lake area our then 21 year old son went out clubbing while my husband and I had a night on the town.
Our son came home before we did ( strange...) and didn't have the house keys with him. He sat outside the house to wait for us.
The cops came by the house( they seem to be around more in nicer areas otherwise, good luck) they asked to see his papers, when he went to show them his HU passport but couldn't  follow what they were saying , they both laughed at him and said,"What kind of HUngarian are you?" If you do not speak fluent Hungarian then you are just a outsider no matter how strong your blood line is.

Hi everyone,

Can we please focus on the topic launched by the initiator?

If you have any school recommendations or any information about home schooling, they are the most welcome on this thread.
Our first target is to help SueinHullUK. 


Thanks all,

Priscilla
Expat.com team

Priscilla wrote:

Hi everyone,

Can we please focus on the topic launched by the initiator?

If you have any school recommendations or any information about home schooling, they are the most welcome on this thread.
Our first target is to help SueinHullUK. 


Thanks all,

Priscilla
Expat.com team

Thank you Priscilla, I was feeling the negativeness too, obviously homeschooling is not for everyone, I have very few options left and was looking for constructive help.  Thanks again for your support :-)

SueinHullUK wrote:

Priscilla wrote:

Hi everyone,

Can we please focus on the topic launched by the initiator?

If you have any school recommendations or any information about home schooling, they are the most welcome on this thread.
Our first target is to help SueinHullUK. 


Thanks all,

Priscilla
Expat.com team

Thank you Priscilla, I was feeling the negativeness too, obviously homeschooling is not for everyone, I have very few options left and was looking for constructive help.  Thanks again for your support :-)

While the general responses are negative, there is useful information there. 

It's not that homeschooling is bad, it's just that the authorities take a disinterested or worse view of it. 

As in everything Hungarian, it's not easy to find out a definitive answer from anyone, even those in the know.

Hi there,

My name is Andrew James Chandler, and I live in Kecskemét. I have a binational, bilingual son (13), who attends elementary school here. He's in a dual language programme (Hungarian-English), which he began in 2011 when we returned here from the UK. He spoke very little Hungarian at first, but soon became quite fluent and able to read and write. Hungarian is phonetic, so that helped. He is now very well integrated, has great friends and is very happy. Of course, his dominant home language is English, but he gets to use it quite a lot at school too, both formally and informally.

I used to teach in that school when he started there, and my wife, a bilingual Hungarian, now teaches there in the dual language class. She translated the Hungarian curriculum for History and 'Civilisation' and has written a number of English Language PPPs which she uses. I'm sure she'd be willing to send you these. I don't know if there are any official translations, or syllabi for other subject areas.

As your son is twelve, you might find a dual language programme in a Paks Secondary School, possibly a six-form gimnázium which would take him from the age of 12. In any case, the schools there might have better advice about his options.

You are not that far, timewise, from Budapest, via the Mecsek express (70 mins), or Dombovár (which has English teachers) and Pécs, which has a dual language school of some standing (my wife and I both taught there). The school has a hostel, and many of the kids stay there during the school week. I can help with contacts if you need them.  As well as international schools offering British curriculum, there is also at least one state dual language school in Budapest which offers a parallel IB. We have been thinking of Oliver attending when the time comes. I'm just about to teach him KS3 English and Humanities at home, and then GCSEs in these subjects (which I used to teach in the UK).

Will your partner be working? If so, where? Obviously, having your own transport will provide more options, and the road connections are much better than when we lived in Pécs in the nineties. 

All the best,

Andrew James.

Just send your child to the local Hungarian school. If they start in September they will be fluent in Hungarian by June. They will learn the language in the playground and from the other children.

Their second year in the school will be much easier as they will be able to understand everything and take part fully in all lessons.

Children with no English show up to schools in England all the time and they survive fine.

Home schooling will just isolate them and do a lot of long term damage in my opinion. I am a primary school teacher BTW.

Thanks Brian for the advice :-),

This was our intention initially.  We visited the local Hungarian school and the Head needed my son to be fluent in Hungarian before she would accept him.  So that avenue is closed.

We are learning Hungarian in England (we haven't moved yet) and as you say social contact with the locals will improve language skills and not make him feel isolated.

Hungarians rock up in schools in the UK with no English and they are accepted. The principal is denying your child an education. He has no grounds to not accept them.

Another option would be for the school to take your kids but your children bring their English coursework with them and work on their English work while the Hungarians do their Hungarian work. The children will then socialise with the Hungarians and pick up the language from them. In year two they could join the mainstream class.

Brian32 wrote:

Hungarians rock up in schools in the UK with no English and they are accepted. The principal is denying your child an education. He has no grounds to not accept them.

The principal is following Hungarian law, which gives schools the right to require a student to take private lessons unless they speak Hungarian. 

Every country may have their own tactic on how to deal with this issue. So what is done in the UK is not relevant here (and do consider, English is far easier to learn than Hungarian).

For example, in my home country the student is often placed into bilingual classes where both English and their native language are both used to help them assimilate. And my wife, who was a Hungarian refugee in Switzerland as a child, had a private language tutor provided and paid for by the state to help her integrate. She was in the normal classes for math, art, PE, etc, but for any subject that required German she was removed from those lessons and studied German. Both these solutions are different but both cost the state. And if you know anything about Hungarian public education, you know it is underfunded; especially in rural areas, where the school will not have the funding to provide language assistance, so they expect the foreign parent to do so on their own and out of their own pocket.

So just consider there are many solutions to this issue. And Hungary will not by default use UK methods. And the educational system here may overall disagree with your solution for "social learning" of the language for their own and varied reasons. And despite your, mine or the OP's opinion of the local conditions, and how they solve them, that is way things often work here and they are nearly impossible to change.

Brian32 wrote:

Another option would be for the school to take your kids but your children bring their English coursework with them and work on their English work while the Hungarians do their Hungarian work.

Huge assumption that the school will want to bother with this. Remember, this is a rural area, and they will probably not make special arrangements for just one student.

Brian32 wrote:

The children will then socialise with the Hungarians and pick up the language from them. In year two they could join the mainstream class.

Some assumptions there. Mainly how much any one child, at different ages, may pick up language skills (especially a difficult language like Hungarian) via "socializing" without first knowing more about that child. For example, I was always a quiet child. Preferring to read and spend time with myself or in the library rather than "socializing". Not unexpected, I was also the bottom of the social peeking order (often bullied). I would have learned little language skills under your proposed method. It would have been more like throwing me to the wolves. Someone like me would excel better with a private tutor. In other words, one should be careful when saying "just" do something without first knowing more about the child.

The OP's decision to learn Hungarian now, before coming to Hungary, is the correct one, IMHO. Not only for the child, but for them all, as it will allow the entire family to integrate into Hungarian society when they hit the ground here and take off running. Even so, the school might, depending on the child's language skills, put him in a lower grade level to start. Again, just how it may play out here.

And yes, I have also have a great deal of professional experience in the training and education, not uncommonly dealing with bilingual education.

I do not agree with your comment that Hungarian is harder to learn than English. Hungarians really struggle with English. I live here and hear poor English spoken to me everyday. Mainly down to the methodologies used here to teach English. Even after 10+ years of learning most Hungarians struggle. Only those who have lived abroad or have an English spouse speak it well.

Foreigners who put the effort in reach the same level in Hungarian in a much shorter time (not perfect either).

Just my opinion.

Back on topic. Yes of course it would depend on the childs ability. However a child with average ability would learn Hungarian in a year. A low ability child could learn it in less than 2. In theory the child could then join a mainstream class. But this those not happen in Hungary unfortunately as i just found out.

Best way to learn a language is to be thrown in the deep end. Hungarians are not familiar with this methodogy and rather learn grammar.

Learning a new language is pretty hard to anybody thats not a linguist, but it has to be said its far easier for a young person to learn than someone that is a lot older.

Brian32 wrote:

Best way to learn a language is to be thrown in the deep end. Hungarians are not familiar with this methodogy and rather learn grammar.

Yes, if your only goal is to learn the language.

But a child so immersed will be spending a disproportionate amount of time learning the language while loosing ground on other subjects in the curriculum in relation to his/her peers. This is a potential disservice to the student and his/her holistic educational development. 

Which is why bilingual education has been shown to be a better approach in most cases. Immerse the child in the local language, while as the same time keep them on par with their peers on the entire curriculum by teaching them these subjects in their native language. For example:

http://education.stateuniversity.com/pa … ation.html

The best option In lieu of an official bilingual education is what the OP is currently doing, maintaining a English language education while learning Hungarian on the side.

Brian32 wrote:

Hungarians really struggle with English. I live here and hear poor English spoken to me everyday. Mainly down to the methodologies used here to teach English.

I would rather say Hungarians are thus struggling with their education system, not with the language itself per se.

Thats true.

Hungarians who lived abroad seem to speak it well. Hungarians learning English in schools is doing them more damage than good. Hungarians with broken English are teaching other Hungarians bad English and passing on their poor accent and pronunciation.

Brian32 wrote:

Thats true.

Hungarians who lived abroad seem to speak it well. Hungarians learning English in schools is doing them more damage than good. Hungarians with broken English are teaching other Hungarians bad English and passing on their poor accent and pronunciation.

In my area, English language is included at a basic level, with non-native teachers.  Extra lessons cost money.  A lot of money.

However, for German, it seems there's plenty of free support, including at higher level. Rumour is that it's supported by the German and possibly Austrian government(s).

Brian32 wrote:

I do not agree with your comment that Hungarian is harder to learn than English. Hungarians really struggle with English.

Generally speaking it's difficult both ways, given how different the two languages are, but chances are greater that you're starting with another latin language in your pocket, which would make learning english easier. For hungarian, there are some ugric languages in Siberia which are supposed to be close. Finnish also belongs to the finno-ugric family, when I listen to it, it sounds familiar, but can't understand shit...

atomheart wrote:

.... when I listen to it, it sounds familiar, but can't understand shit...

It's the same the way Dutch and English sound.  Dutch has the same kind of rhythm and sounds as English.  Hardly surprising really.   

I guess it might be the same kind of feel with Spanish and Italian for native speakers of those languages.

A linguist told me years ago there's a word for this kind of familiarity.

My father and step-dad would sit around the kitchen table and speak a dialect of Slav, step-dad was half Czech and my father was Rusin, both grew up speaking their mother's language in the house as children.
They didn't want to forget it so once in awhile they would pop a few beers and speak their "languages".
At those times they were buddies again.

So really you must practice often even with languages you learnt as a child or you will forget many things.
One thing I find funny sometimes is when my husband has to translate between English and Hungarian,he often starts getting tired and speaks HU to the Eng. person and then other way around.
Have to use it or lose it.
Also moving to a country village means you will all pick up the local dialect for the region.
Hick Hungarian is a accent. Sometimes city people and country people can hardly understand each other even in the same language.

@Marilyn, I know exactly what you mean about dialects.  Even in England in my hometown Hull we have a quite extreme dialect which is quite intimidating to outsiders.  I think everywhere you go there are different ways of saying things, I guess Hungary is no different. Lol.

SueinHullUK wrote:

Priscilla wrote:

Hi everyone,

Can we please focus on the topic launched by the initiator?

If you have any school recommendations or any information about home schooling, they are the most welcome on this thread.
Our first target is to help SueinHullUK. 


Thanks all,

Priscilla
Expat.com team

Thank you Priscilla, I was feeling the negativeness too, obviously homeschooling is not for everyone, I have very few options left and was looking for constructive help.  Thanks again for your support :-)

That's one thing I found, nothing much about the positive side of Hungary but a lot of the negative.

klsallee wrote:

Brian32 wrote:

Best way to learn a language is to be thrown in the deep end. Hungarians are not familiar with this methodogy and rather learn grammar.

Yes, if your only goal is to learn the language.

But a child so immersed will be spending a disproportionate amount of time learning the language while loosing ground on other subjects in the curriculum in relation to his/her peers. This is a potential disservice to the student and his/her holistic educational development. 

Which is why bilingual education has been shown to be a better approach in most cases. Immerse the child in the local language, while as the same time keep them on par with their peers on the entire curriculum by teaching them these subjects in their native language. For example:

http://education.stateuniversity.com/pa … ation.html

The best option In lieu of an official bilingual education is what the OP is currently doing, maintaining a English language education while learning Hungarian on the side.

Brian32 wrote:

Hungarians really struggle with English. I live here and hear poor English spoken to me everyday. Mainly down to the methodologies used here to teach English.

I would rather say Hungarians are thus struggling with their education system, not with the language itself per se.

I think Brian is right. We came to France and our children did not speak French, A few months on and they could speak it. As for not keeping up, my daughter is getting top marks. So for the French children who have spoken it from day dot she is ahead of them in various lessons.

davemoore wrote:

We came to France and our children did not speak French, A few months on and they could speak it. As for not keeping up, my daughter is getting top marks. So for the French children who have spoken it from day dot she is ahead of them in various lessons.

Which lessons? French? Mathematics? Other? It actually may matter.

I ask because my wife, who became a refugee in Switzerland at age 9, excelled in math upon arrival because it was language neutral. But did not do so great at first in German. So she ended up in a technical Gymnasium. But she really, in her heart. loved languages, not mathematics. She is today a translator. Knows five languages fluently. But always regrets she did not go to a Gymnasium that could have promoted and refined her real aptitudes and love. And that decision was based on misguided linguistic limitations in her younger years.

What I am saying is this: it this is a complex issue. A very, very complex issue. With consequences you and a child may not see for years. Choose wisely.

klsallee wrote:

davemoore wrote:

We came to France and our children did not speak French, A few months on and they could speak it. As for not keeping up, my daughter is getting top marks. So for the French children who have spoken it from day dot she is ahead of them in various lessons.

Which lessons? French? Mathematics? Other? It actually may matter.

I ask because my wife, who became a refugee in Switzerland at age 9, excelled in math upon arrival because it was language neutral. But did not do so great at first in German. So she ended up in a technical Gymnasium. But she really, in her heart. loved languages, not mathematics. She is today a translator. Knows five languages fluently. But always regrets she did not go to a Gymnasium that could have promoted and refined her real aptitudes and love. And that decision was based on misguided linguistic limitations in her younger years.

What I am saying is this: it this is a complex issue. A very, very complex issue. With consequences you and a child may not see for years. Choose wisely.

Physics, French, maths, geography, history etc, yes they be language neutral but my children have learnt it in another language (ok maths are numbers) that they have only just learnt. If you wait until you are perfect at doing something, life has passed you by. I think, this is my opinion and I have not done too bad by it, if you think you can do it and want to have a go, go for it.

davemoore wrote:

If you wait until you are perfect at doing something, life has passed you by. I think, this is my opinion and I have not done too bad by it, if you think you can do it and want to have a go, go for it.

I actually agree. 1000% (no typo, I meant the added zero).

But that is only for myself.

For others who depend on my decision, such as children, it can be more complicated.