Ask the expert whether he prefers Ecuador or Colombia

1st up. I  recently had coffee with a an expat in who has lived in Cuenca for at least 5 years. He now splits his time between Cuenca and Colombia. I forget which major city it is but I recall either Bogota or Medellin. Probably the one with the higher elevation since he referred to himself as a mountain boy.

He made  the following claim to me: Where he lives it costs about 1/2 of Cuenca.

Now, you seemed to express skepticism about whether Colombia is cheaper than Ecuador. Please opine whether you think the aforementioned expat is FOC.

If somebody is living as a “mountain boy” .. there's no telling how cheap are his living expenses.

If his lifestyle in the capital district of Colombia, however, is virtually identical to what he knows from Cuenca, the claim of 50 percent savings is dubious.

As for elevation... Bogotá, at 8,600 feet altitude, is a few hundred feet higher up compared to Cuenca .. and about 3,700 feet higher than Medellín.

Key reasons why I am spending more time in Colombia -- not Bogotá! -- are air and altitude.  The air in Quito has less oxygen than here in Coffee Country .. and, as is well known by now, the cheap gas running through the Quito buses often creates asqueroso black smoke that benefits nobody.

Sure, I could have visited other areas of Ecuador -- Vilcabamba, for instance.  But Ecuador's ban on casinos -- in particular, casino blackjack -- pretty much ruled that out.  Here in COL, I've got game.

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Brother Archer was the one who commented that cost-of-living is higher in Ecuador than Colombia.  So we invite him in on this discussion.

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Get well soon, Nards.

cccmedia from Quindío, Colombia

So how's the Juan Valdez coffee up there compared to leftovers we get down here? ajajaja

BTW, I don't drink Colombian coffee anymore, I'm all in Ecuador. It's probably a phase but that's all drink now in cafes and home.

I don't drink 'ordinary' hot coffee.  Never liked it.  Was mostly a tea drinker for many years.

However, I enjoy the ice-cold cappuccino they bring me, gratis, at the blackjack table at Río Casino.

Now, if I could only find my longtime favorite, coffee ice cream.

cccmedia in Juan Valdez country (Quindío, Colombia)

Why do you say you are in Quindío, Colombia? Quindío isn't a city is it, but rather a depart
ment?  I assume it is for the same reason you don't want to announce where you do your banking.

And I hope you are getting a good monthly room rate considering all that blackjack you are playing.  And unless you count cards, I doubt being a good player will still keep you from walking out of there with a hole in your pocket.

Nards Barley wrote:

Why do you say you are in Quindío, Colombia? Quindío isn't a city is it, but rather a department?

That's insightful .. not that I expect less of you, Nards.

The city where I am staying in department Quindío is Armenia.

Since there is a more famous Armenia (you know, the one Trump probably wants to invade to impress Putin) , I am training myself to say Quindío (kin-DEE-oh) instead of Armenia whenever possible.

I also prefer the name Quindío to Armenia.  Seems classier and more Colombian than Armenia.

The famous (in Colombia) tourist town of Salento is also in this department (a department being somewhat equivalent to a U.S. state).  So is my favorite suburb in this area:  I posted a new thread titled “Circasia, Colombia” on expat.com's Colombia forum earlier today.

However, Quindío is one of the smallest departments in COL geographically -- sort of the Rhode Island of Colombia in that respect.

I'll have more on the other stuff later.  But it's Saturday night .. and I'm on the move.

cccmedia in Quindío, Colombia

As far as cost of living in Colombia vs. Ecuador I will just provide the link to what I posted earlier, which has links to the Numbeo comparisons for several cities in each country:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 44#3535800

For what it's worth...there are so many variables and lifestyles.

And coffee!  In Colombia the Juan Valdez is very good but a lot cheaper and just as good, I think, are brands like Oma, Lukafe, La Bastilla, Colombia Export, La Palma, Bemoka, Canaima, Mejia, La 14, Sello Rojo Espresso, Café Quindío, and there are more...I bring as much as I can back to the States, ground, in 500g bags but always run out too soon.

I would love to visit Columbia, as they seem to have more lax restrictions on imports from the US than Ecuador. I've also done a lot of research of where to "live" throughout the rest of the world.  I have read that columbians are a bit "cliquish", but who am I to judge these days, as I believe I have become the same way since living in a foreign country.  I would love to visit Cali, Medillin, and/or Bogota.  But hell, even from Ecuador, the flights are just as expensive as to Miami, and let's face it I would rather be there any day of the week.  (I so miss my condo in Miami Beach!!  But we all do what we have to at a certain time in our lives)   Since I'm not a coffee drinker, but my husband is, I always order lots of Starbucks coffee from my prime account for him when I go back to Florida.  The coffee here in ecuador sucks (from what I'm told) & always buy Juan Valdez espresso brand when it's on sale for my husband and keep it in my freezer to keep it fresh.  But oh how I miss those salted caramel hot chocolates from Starbucks, even if I'm not a coffee drinker. 

I have been thinking, as a total hamburger and hot dog crazy person (but only certain brands), do you guys think a Nathan's franchise or a Krispy Kreme franchise would be successful here?

Any input would be appreciated.  The sad thing is that at Reba Smith grocery store in Panama, I can get Nathan's hot dogs and all/any cheese I would ever want (not to mention Diet Coke in the can).  But it would cost me a lot more to live there and at that point, I would just be better off to move back to US (one day 🙏🏻)

A friend of mine - longtime expat in El Cangrejo district in Panama City - has been traveling and taking extended stays in Medellin, Colombia - maybe four over the past couple of years - and was very impressed with the climate, the people and the costs.  He spoke of possibly relocating and helping another friend in a restaurant venture.  Recently, however, the bubble burst when he was perhaps profiled as a drug smuggler or something - his luggage was handed over to him with dozens and dozens of knife stabbings by Colombia agents - ruining the bag and everything in it.  So, one bad experienced soured him on Colombia.  I take no view one way or the other.

SawMan wrote:

the bubble burst when he was perhaps profiled as a drug smuggler or something - his luggage was handed over to him with dozens and dozens of knife stabbings by Colombia agents - ruining the bag and everything in it.  So, one bad experienced soured him on Colombia.

That's pathetic. 

One bad experience .. and he writes off Colombia.

The “profiled as a drug smuggler” concept, if that's what he told you he believes:  that's a creative, but possibly incorrect, explanation. 

Some folks are just not cut out to be Expats in countries in South America, where nutty stuff happens once in a while.

When things go sideways, that's a great time to use your Spanish, if you've learned it.  If you haven't, paranoia is a possible outcome.

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera, Colombia

cccmedia wrote:

The “profiled as a drug smuggler” concept, if that's what he told you he believes:  that's a creative, but possibly incorrect, explanation.

That's my speculation - stab bags and see if white stuff comes out with the blade.  I saw it on TV!

cccmedia wrote:

When things go sideways, that's a great time to use your Spanish, if you've learned it.  If you haven't, paranoia is a possible outcome.

He's fluent in Spanish and has lived in Panama City ten years.

Nards Barley wrote:

I hope you are getting a good monthly room rate considering all that blackjack you are playing.  And unless you count cards, I doubt being a good player will still keep you from walking out of there with a hole in your pocket.

I'm paying an above-market rate, about $800 US, for one month, for a furnished view-apartment on the 16th floor with a rooftop swimming pool and jacuzzi .. in the el primo part of the city.  It's not a casino-rate as the casino does not have its own hotel.

Would it surprise you if I told you I've lost half a million Colombian pesos playing blackjack about three sessions a week during my two months in Colombia?

It shouldn't surprise.  That's only $167 US.  Back in the day (the 90's), I used to win or lose more than that in a single session in Vegas and Atlantic City.   Last night, I was down 350,000 pesos in the first half hour to a ‘hot' dealer .. then fought my way back to being down only 45 lucas* ($15 US) at the end.

Of course, I'm compensated with free ice-cappuccinos on demand .. and the entertainment of playing a game that is banned in Ecuador.

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Little-known fact:  I was barred from El Cortez casino in downtown Las Vegas two times for counting cards.  Banned from two casinos in Reno for the same reason.

Counting cards doesn't work against the big dealing shoes of South America if you don't have a counting team as in the movie '21'.  I am playing without a team.

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera

*One luca equals 1,000 Colombian pesos.  Colombians say lucas the way North Americans would say bucks, smackers or simoleons.

Sophems wrote:

I have been thinking, as a total hamburger and hot dog crazy person (but only certain brands), do you guys think a Nathan's franchise or a Krispy Kreme franchise would be successful here?

Any input would be appreciated.  The sad thing is that at Reba Smith grocery store in Panama, I can get Nathan's hot dogs and all/any cheese I would ever want.

Nathan's Famous hot dog eateries -- founded as a single hot dog stand in Coney Island, Brooklyn, in 1916 -- recently celebrated it's 100th anniversary.  (Wikipedia)

I think a well-run Nathan's would do fantastic business on Plaza Foch in Quito .. or in Salinas, Ecuador, during high season -- Xmas through May.

Manta, where Sophems lives:  who knows?

FYI... at the worldwide map at nathansfamous.com, you'll see that there are no Nathan's locations shown in South America, although the company has outlets in Central America, Moscow, Turkey, Australia and Yankee Stadium, among other venues.

cccmedia -- not able to get Nathan's products
    at my current location in Quindío, Colombia

Being it is Superbowl Sunday today, and I don't want to overburden the expert, I am going to ask a very simple question.

On a Colombia thread, you once referred to one of Colombia's food staples--the arepa--as being "infamous".   

Why?

Nards Barley wrote:

Being it is Superbowl Sunday today, and I don't want to overburden the expert, I am going to ask a very simple question.

On a Colombia thread, you once referred to one of Colombia's food staples--the arepa--as being "infamous".   

Why?

It's halftime, so I am pleased to respond during the game.

By the way, I was restricted to Spanish-language audio the past two Super Bowls on DirecTV in Quito.  So I was happily surprised to discover that Claro Cable TV shown here in my furnished Colombian apartment is televising the game on the Fox Sports 3 channel with English audio.  Another Fox channel is showing the game with Spanish audio.

--------

Anyway, my bilingual temporary landlord was showing me around this apartment a few days before I moved in last month, when we got to the kitchen.  We were talking in English....

"Here's the arepa maker,"  Señor Rodriguez is telling me, holding up the aparato.

"I won't be needing that," says I.

"Why not?" asks Sr. Rodridguez.

Coming down more on the side of honesty than diplomacy, I respond:  "Most Gringos think the arepa is a Colombian national mistake."

"Why is that?" Sr. Rodriguez wants to know.

"Because it has no taste," I explain.  I could have added that the arepas I have sampled were also dry and hard.  I could have said there's already enough starch on the plates of most Colombian meals with the potatoes, the plantain and the rice .. that there's no need to add any arepas. 

But all I mentioned was the arepa's tastelessness.

Sr. Rodriguez didn't try to defend the Colombian arepa.  Instead, he turned and showed me the oven, the kitchen cabinets and the microwave.

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera

I have had the hand made arepas from a Columbian owned restaurant in the "elite" tennis club restaurant here in manta.  It took forever to get the order and honestly I wasn't impressed. But to be fair I don't eat rice very often or anything made with corn, UNLESS I am making my mushroom risotto from the U.K. Famous chef that does Hell's Kitchen or some show, oh never mind, Gordon Ramsey.  As I wanted to make the Italian rice balls and I just stopped at the mushroom risotto part or my southern  style cornbread so I am right there with you.  Not to mention the fact that I have to make stuff to make a recipe, we have lost tons of weight without trying or exercising.  Ok I know that's important and maybe I will get to it this year, but cutting out all the processed food here, I am able to now compete with those younger than me health wise without really trying, but that's just my experience.  And don't get me wrong, I usually did take out or dinner out when living in the US.  I still battle with the fact that I cook so much, as it's totally not my thing.  And no dishwasher in my house, except me, gets old to.  But if I can look great, be healthier and eat better, in my opinion I have grown a little more used to it.  I still have days, weeks and months where I would prefer to work the 60-80 hours a week that I find gives me more purpose in my life, I start to find myself thinking maybe not.  Time will tell as my resume is now updated and sometimes I hope to land a job back in the US, but with no "assets" left there makes me take pause.  But oh how I miss those South Beach Super Bowl nights.  To me, aripas are over rated and only what we are used to.  So is the super bowl if you ask my drunk ass tonight.

cccmedia wrote:

Sr. Rodriguez didn't try to defend the Colombian arepa. 
cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera

He probably was remembering the Biblical injunction, something about "neither cast ye your pearls before swine", ni echéis vuestras perlas delante de los cerdos, ja ja...

You need to get you some arepas made by real home cookin'...although they are just corn cakes, when freshly and expertly made they do have a subtle flavor meant to accompany other dishes, or to be stuffed, rellena, with meats or vegetables, or served with butter on top.  They can also be made with cheese in the mix, which despite the lack of variety and taste of Colombian cheese, does add more flavor.   At first over 16 years ago I did not much care for them, it is an acquired taste - but my wife and her family convinced me otherwise pretty quickly with their stellar culinary skills.

And yes, sophem, unfortunately this Super Bowl is not one to be remembered for very long, unless you are a Patriots fan and like dwelling on disappointments...oops, with the Patriots now scoring and pulling within 8 points it could be a fight right down to the wire!

Sophems wrote:

I miss those South Beach Super Bowl nights.  To me, arepas are over rated and only what we are used to.  So is the super bowl if you ask my drunk ass tonight.

That's questionable timing and questionable remarks about the Super Bowl, but we'll give Brother Archer and Sophems the benefit of the doubt .. since they posted here before the Patriots finished pulling off the greatest comeback in Super Bowl History -- and Sophems was borracha to boot.

Heck, it may have been the greatest comeback in the history of all North American pro sports.

cccmedia

A friend of a friend that I met watching the game knew of someone that placed a $5,000 bet before the season started.  He had to pick both teams that would end up in the super bowl and the winner.  No point spread.  He picked both teams and the Falcons to win.  It would have sucked to have been him the last minutes of the game.  He would have won over $400,000 on that bet.  He has luck like me....

Must confess that i have never understood the coffee comments on various brands.  Here in Vilcabamba there is just Coffee,either grown here or grown in Malacatos.  It is marvellous, so good that I started drinking coffee here and never drank it in Canada.  Everyone here in Yamburara Alto neighbourhood lays out their coffee beans in the front yard to dry.  We do not do brands here.
HelenPivoine

I don't drink either.  I don't like the taste or smell of it even in candy.  When I lived in Florida I got my husband,who has everything and loves different coffees from all over the world, 2 pounds of special organic Hawaiian Kona coffee every month. It was a club that you had to join to get the locked in price, or you could order different flavors and roasts off their website, which were more expensive. They would roast the beans on Monday and ship to me fedex on Tuesday.  I could always smell it going in my front door when I got home from work and the fedex box was propped up against it.  He doesn't like the coffee here very much but I may try to order from a different area and see how he likes it.  I usually order a couple of the 2 1/2 pound bags of Starbucks dark French roast from Amazon Prime if they have it and I travel back to the US.  I keep it in my freezer and it usually lasts him a while.

HelenPivoine wrote:

Must confess that i have never understood the coffee comments on various brands.  Here in Vilcabamba there is just Coffee,either grown here or grown in Malacatos.  It is marvellous, so good that I started drinking coffee here and never drank it in Canada.  Everyone here in Yamburara Alto neighbourhood lays out their coffee beans in the front yard to dry.  We do not do brands here.
HelenPivoine

Hey HelenPivione, do you drink beer? It's essentially the same thing, beer is beer (coffee is coffee), but the different brands taste different. Some are better quality, some are lighter, others are stronger, and so on.

Like you I wasn't a big coffee drinker before, but the climate here (Andes-Quito) is ideal for coffee, and of course Ecuadorean coffee is great.

ccc, what about level of crime in Ecuador versus Colombia? Aside from your initial nightmarish experience how do you perceive safety there compared to here. On paper, Colombia is more dangerous, but would like your experiences so far.

Simply your perception as hopefully you haven't had more bad experiences. For example I've never experienced crime here, but when I'm in north centro Quito I feel good, but when I go south, I'm not as confident and certainly dress differently as my spidey sense goes off there.

Vsimple,

At the Marriott hotel in Quito in the lobby bar they make an orange flavored hot chocolate that is to die for!!  It is rich with cream and orange zest and if not mistaken a slight hint of orange liquor.  I can't remember for sure, if it did come with the liquor, I may have opted out.  I was up there to have a MRI at hospital metropolitano.  I would put it up against Starbucks and Godiva hot chocolate any day of the week!!  Just a thought....

Message me I have a very easy ice cream recipe you make without an ice cream maker.  I add what I want to it but since it doesn't turn in a machine the heavier stuff will sink to the bottom.  It's just as good as Ben and Jerry's.  You could add your coffee to it for coffee flavored ice cream.  I however, go more for hot fudge, ghiradelli chocolate chips and marshmallows.  For potential "figure" and cholesterol issues I only make it about once a year.  Takes 5 minutes and then into the freezer.

Sophems wrote:

Vsimple,

At the Marriott hotel in Quito in the lobby bar they make an orange flavored hot chocolate that is to die for!!  It is rich with cream and orange zest and if not mistaken a slight hint of orange liquor.  I can't remember for sure, if it did come with the liquor, I may have opted out.  I was up there to have a MRI at hospital metropolitano.  I would put it up against Starbucks and Godiva hot chocolate any day of the week!!  Just a thought....

Thanks for the tip, if it's like Starbucks, it's all good. I tried Sweet & Coffee, and while their coffee is okay, their hot chocolate is horrible. A friend recommended Cyril for good hot chocolate or specifically chocolate con queso or chocolate (hot) with cheese, Ecuadorians love it.

http://cyril-boutique.com/

On another thread in the colombia forum CCmedia said

(Bogotá may be an exception, I wouldn't know.  But with the altitude and the traffic and the pollution, I don't think Bogotá is a top Expat destination -- unless you are offered a job to go there.)

to which I responded

Then neither should be Quito and Cuenca for the same reasons.

to which CCMedia responded

So, IMO, Cuenca -- with its beauty, its strong Expat community and the factors mentioned in the preceding paragraph -- is a solid Expat destination.  In fact, it's a world-class Expat destino.

To which I respond, the answer to the conundrum might be found between the 4:00-4:10 mark of the following youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont … bVxx6eFDwo

Right, smog and altitude in Cuenca.

Nards, to what extent has Cuenca's air -- and the unofficial Expat community's ability to adjust to it -- deteriorated since you arrived around 2012? 

There doesn't seem to be anything about this in the latest issue of International Living magazine.

Do you anticipate that the current public-works and transportation upgrades in Cuenca, including the Chinese buses experiment, will have noticeable and positive effects on the Cuenca air?

cccmedia

cccmedia wrote:

Right, smog and altitude in Cuenca.

Nards, to what extent has Cuenca's air -- and the unofficial Expat community's ability to adjust to it -- deteriorated since you arrived around 2012? 

There doesn't seem to be anything about this in the latest issue of International Living magazine.

Do you anticipate that the current public-works and transportation upgrades in Cuenca, including the Chinese buses experiment, will have noticeable and positive effects on the Cuenca air?

cccmedia

No idea on all counts.

However, folks are splitting town, including blogger for expat.com who acquired citizenship a year ago.

http://grimmsecuadortraveltales.blogspot.com

Nards Barley wrote:

folks are splitting town, including blogger for expat.com who acquired citizenship a year ago.

http://grimmsecuadortraveltales.blogspot.com

Given that Nards achieved EC citizenship in 2016, we're relieved to discover that it's not he, but the Grimms .. who are bailing on Cuenca.

Given that an apartment can be furnished for $6,000 .. it would shock me if they get anywhere near the $13,800 they are asking .. for the pictured muebles usados, etc.

Where are the Grimms headed?

cccmedia

cccmedia wrote:

Where are the Grimms headed?

cccmedia

I tried to elicit said information via an anonymous comment but failed.

Do you know the principal effect on his health that Frank Frugal attributes to the high elevation of Cuenca? Lack of sleep.

Nards Barley wrote:

Do you know the principal effect on his health that Frank Frugal attributes to the high elevation of Cuenca? Lack of sleep.

I did not know about Frugal's insomnia.  However, my previous research on the elevation issue indicated that some people do have problems sleeping well at higher altitudes.

In Quito, I have noticed a personal reduction in energy levels though not in my number of hours slept.

cccmedia from La Zona Cafetera

However, folks are splitting town, including blogger for expat.com who acquired citizenship a year ago.

http://grimmsecuadortraveltales.blogspot.com

Well at least their blog gave an indication that they're leaving. Other blogs that initally started with enthusiastic posts stopped updating all together.

Do you know the principal effect on his health that Frank Frugal attributes to the high elevation of Cuenca? Lack of sleep.

It could be other factors or underlying issues that are merely exacerbated by high altitude. People break down whether it's at high altitude or coast.

cccmedia wrote:

Where are the Grimms headed?

cccmedia

I found out.  Lake Chapala.  My insider said she knows two other expats heading there.  Does it beckon you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chapala

I haven't tried that link yet.  I know they say the weather's great at Laka Chapala and there's a serious Expat community.

I'll be heading right over there for a visit .. as soon as Mexico legalizes blackjack and casino table games.

cccmedia in casino-rich Colombia

According to Wikipedia at that link, Ajijic is the Expat favorite on the lake for numerous reasons.

Can you say Ajijic?

  -- cccmedia, further south of the border than Mexico

cccmedia wrote:

Nards Barley wrote:

Do you know the principal effect on his health that Frank Frugal attributes to the high elevation of Cuenca? Lack of sleep.

I did not know about Frugal's insomnia.  However, my previous research on the elevation issue indicated that some people do have problems sleeping well at higher altitudes.

In Quito, I have noticed a personal reduction in energy levels though not in my number of hours slept.

cccmedia from La Zona Cafetera

To reinforce this point, watch the following Youtube video between the 3;29 and 3:60 mark where Frank Frugal  is getting all weepy about going back to zero elevation in Salinas while drinking beet juice from a 2 liter Pepsi bottle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont … XcAcIwxyqI