Colombia or Ecuador?

I agree - I'm looking at both countries myself but I'm also considering Cali and Cartegena Colombia along with Salinas Ecuador.

I'm with you. I'm open to those locations as well. I'm really torn btwn a tropical paradise and  city life. I think I'll post this on my expat FB communities. Will likely get a lot of feedback there. Keep me posted on your findings and plans!

There are so many variables and since each person has their own criteria for what he/she considers "ideal", there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

If you like or can stand heat and humidity, coastal areas and the Amazon jungle areas of either country might suit - but not all coastal areas are safe, and the Amazon jungle areas are sparsely populated with fewer amenities.

You have a choice of climates depending on altitude ranging from tropical steamy at low elevations to chilly at high altitudes and if the area is in a "rain shadow" or not, from wet to dry.

You can get some idea but not the whole picture by checking the weather of various cities - but note if the weather station is at an airport, it may not accurately reflect the weather and climate of a location even only a few kilometers away, for instance the temperatures reported for Cali may be those of the airport which is located some distance away and is often cooler:

http://www.accuweather.com/en/co/cali/1 … ast/111732

Weather for Bogotá:

http://www.accuweather.com/en/co/bogota … ast/107487

Big cities have more crime and congestion, but also more lifestyle choices and things to do.  In the bigger cities of both countries is where you can tailor your lifestyle to more closely resemble a first-world developed country experience but without many of the things that may annoy you about life in a developed country.  But if you don't live more like a local don't expect to save a lot of money.

My impression of Ecuador vs. Colombia is that Ecuador is less developed, the economy is not as strong, the people are not quite as friendly, and the cost of living is higher than in Colombia.  YMMV.

See, for instance, these comparisons between Quito and Cali, Quito and Bogotá, and Cuenca and Medellín:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c … Comparisonhttps://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c … ty2=Bogotahttps://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c … 2=Medellin

But also Ecuador is more "gringo-friendly" at least in Quito and Cuenca and several other cities, than most places in Colombia - with respect to government policies as well as that more expats get by there with little to no knowledge of Spanish than in Colombia, which is more of a do-it-yourself (or else) type of environment.  But overall I think most Colombians are more friendly and open than most Ecuadorians.  Again this depends on your personal experience.

The only way you will find out is to visit and see for yourself.  Just like some people think New York, New York is a wonderful place and the only place to live, you could not pay others to live there.  Just like some love Nashville or even Memphis, others could not stand the culture (or the lack thereof) except for perhaps a short visit.

This is a great topic, Smith, although it's a bit tricky.  That's because you really can't perfectly compare living in two countries of such size -- you really are better off comparing individual cities.

That said, Colombia is on the rise for Expats while Ecuador has been struggling.

Colombia signed a peace pact with the FARC ex-guerrillas last month .. and is negotiating a similar deal with the ELN.  The stigma of the Escobar Era -- which technically ended a quarter century ago with his death -- has been slowly lifting.  Expats -- who have made Colombia the #1 vacation-destination country in South America -- are now more open to moving here full-time or as snowbirds.

Meantime, Ecuador has been struggling with volcanoes, budget deficits, demonstrations and earthquakes.  Its Expat-friendly larger cities, Quito and Cuenca, do not offer as many first-world amenities as, say, the Poblado sector of Medellín, Colombia.

cccmedia from La Zona Cafetera, Colombia
   (condo owner in Quito, Ecuador)

smithcgc wrote:

I've been researching a move to either Colombia or Ecuador.  Medellin, Cali, Cuenca, Guayaquil.

Let's start with the two Colombian cities.

Medellín is a great story of a city that has transformed far beyond expectations when given a second chance.

Expat-friendly areas such as the Milla de Oro in Poblado sector are now well-patrolled by police and ubiquitous private security.

Medellín -- perhaps due to global warming -- is not the eternal-spring city of lore during the June-August summertime months.  Expect highs in the low 80's Fahrenheit most of the year and close to 90 during hotter periods of the summer.  A bonus is outdoor swimming pools at some apartment complexes, something you won't find in Cuenca, Ecuador.

The best areas of Medellín are modern and up-to-date.  Supermarkets, shopping centers and other amenities in its best Expat-friendly areas would not be out of place in Beverly Hills, California.

----

Traffic in both Cali and Medellín can be a problem.  Air pollution theoretically, too, although I have personally not seen anything that is as bad as the bus routes of Quito, Ecuador.

Cali is at lower altitude than the Antioquian capital .. and thus warmer, more humid.

Cali is widely considered, in both Ecuador and Colombia, as a dangerous city .. although I have no statistics to prove how bad it may be.

Cali, from what I have personally seen, is nowhere near as beautiful a city as Medellín, which IMO is exceptional in this regard.

cccmedia from La Zona Cafetera

On to the Ecuador cities Smith mentioned -- Cuenca and Guayaquil.  Let's address them in reverse order.

Guayaquil is easy to rule out.  It's not Expat-friendly.

The Big G is hot, humid and dangerous.  You can't hide out in Sambo sector all the time.

How did Guayaquil even get to be the most populous city in Ecuador?

Geography.  Its land and water configurations were ideal for a port and for transportation.  The port and transport workers wanted to live close by .. and so Guayaquil grew .. and grew .. and got overgrown.

Guayaquil is an hour from the nearest ocean beach, traffic is awful .. and the schvitz factor can be off the charts.

-------

Cuenca is a different story entirely.

Its weather -- highs just below 70 Fahrenheit as a monthly average year-round -- is the coolest of the four cities Smith mentioned.

The Expat community is vibrant, with more Expat meetups and events than any other city in Ecuador or Colombia.

Cuenca has been, for years, one of the top Expat destinations worldwide.

It has a preserved historical district that is considered a jewel of La República.

cccmedia from La Zona

Wow. CCC and OA, your feedback is great! So much here and it's really helpful! Gotta go bck through and look at some of the links. Will respond soon. Thank you!!

OsageArcher wrote:

My impression of Ecuador vs. Colombia is that Ecuador is less developed ... and the cost of living is higher than in Colombia.

Huh?!

Cost of living higher in Ecuador?

Is that a typo?

cccmedia from La Zona Cafetera, Colombia

smithcgc wrote:

Ecuador also seems to have more outdoor green space options included with its in town living (i.e., condos with nice terrace and private grass areas), which I need for my 2 small dogs. Of course this given my limited online research.

I think Medellín will surprise you in this respect.

There are plenty of trees, parks and green spaces in the Paisa capital.  My principal experience has been in Poblado sector.  There are plenty of terraced apartments with green views from what I've noticed.

cccmedia in La Zona

OsageArcher wrote:

Ecuador is more "gringo-friendly" at least in Quito and Cuenca and several other cities, than most places in Colombia....

About the “government policies” ... there's one particular sphere where Colombia can be Gringo-unfriendly.  It relates to taxes for some Gringos.

Colombia taxes worldwide income and that can put a nasty bite on some, though not all, Expats.

It's a complicated subject, further made complex by the fact that Colombia has apparently just enacted new tax regulations this month .. and the Expat sites have yet to decipher the new rules.

I think we'll know more about this shortly.  Potential new arrivals may need to pay attention to this.

cccmedia in La Zona

OsageArcher wrote:

Ecuador is more "gringo-friendly" at least in Quito and Cuenca and several other cities.... more expats get by there with little to no knowledge of Spanish than in Colombia, which is more of a do-it-yourself (or else) type of environment.  But overall I think most Colombians are more friendly and open than most Ecuadorians.

I don't think that Medellín presents more of a language challenge than most of Ecuador's cities.

Take Poblado sector.  More Expats land there than any other place in Medellín, perhaps more than any other sector in Colombia.

That's plenty of incentive for lodging and other businesses to cater to English-speakers .. and some do.  It's still spotty, but (outside of Cuenca, perhaps), it's spotty in Ecuador's cities too.

The part about Colombians being extremely friendly and open to English-speaking foreigners .. I agree completely with Brother Archer on that, especially if an effort is made to communicate in Spanish.  Even if that's just to say hello, how are ya' .. and a few other phrases.

cccmedia in La Zona

cccmedia wrote:

Huh?!

Cost of living higher in Ecuador?

Is that a typo?

cccmedia from La Zona Cafetera, Colombia

No, it is not a typo - these previously posted links below to numbeo.com support that assertion, plus reading expat posts about food and rent costs in Ecuador on this blog and others also make that clear.  From my previous post above:

======================================================
See, for instance, these comparisons between Quito and Cali, Quito and Bogotá, and Cuenca and Medellín:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c … Comparisonhttps://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c … ty2=Bogotahttps://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c … 2=Medellin
======================================================

YMMV of course depending on your lifestyle.  But I know I can get an adequate and satisfying "almuerzo ejecutivo" in Cali for $5000 or $6000 COP (around $2 USD) while expats in Cuenca and Quito are posting how "reasonable" a lunch costing $10 USD or more is...that's more than I pay here in the States!

Good, documented answer, Bro.

However, your final paragraph comparing the price of meals eaten by sophisticated diners such as Nards and V Simple against the price of an almuerzo undercut your point.

--------

At numbeo.com, I compared a monthly rental (3 BR) outside the city center between Cuenca and Medellín.  The Cuenca apartment was more expensive at $401 than the Medellín apartment at $353, supporting your point.  Cuenca, widely considered the most expensive city in Ecuador, does not have many low-rent favelas as found in the Paisa capital, so the results of this comparison are not surprising to me after further consideration.

The once-common view of Ecuador being cheaper than Colombia is clearly subject to review.  You may have noticed that the OP's research, mentioned in her second sentence of this thread's initial post, indicated a finding that Ecuador was cheaper.

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera

It should also be noted that Ecuador's monthly minimum wage is now set at $375 USD, while in Colombia depending on the exchange rate it's below $250 USD.  That's a big difference.

Of course the true minimum wage anywhere always has been and always will be ZERO.  The higher the minimum wage, the fewer employees a business can afford to hire if their productivity doesn't have a corresponding increase to cover costs.  And if you don't get hired, you don't earn anything...

Right now if you can believe official unemployment statistics (which I always take with at least several large grains of salt) both countries have similar unemployment percentages although Colombia's have historically been higher than Ecuador's over the last decade.

In any case the difference in the minimum wages with roughly comparable unemployment rates would lead one to expect that generally costs would be higher in Ecuador, since generally speaking as wages rise, so does the cost of consumer goods.

Ha, just noticed who you are 😉 Dcasanares

cccmedia wrote:

OsageArcher wrote:

My impression of Ecuador vs. Colombia is that Ecuador is less developed ... and the cost of living is higher than in Colombia.

Huh?!

Cost of living higher in Ecuador?

Is that a typo?

cccmedia from La Zona Cafetera, Colombia

So this comment raised my eyebrow also. All research I've done showed me that Ecuador had a lower COL. Of course I was basing this only on rentals.  Perhaps the difference was due to the cities I reviewed in both countries.  Since this feedback I've gone bck and reviewed Colombia again. Understanding the conversion better and checking out some add'l cities.  There are lower rentals available in Colombia as well.  It will depend on thie city and what is desired.  This is great feedback.  It is really helping me to finalize my thoughts.  Thanks all!

the cost of living  changes every day ..depends on the exchange rate  USD-COL

Ccc and oa have been a wealth of knowledge to me after reading their posts. I too researched C. And S
America for ovet a year before making the move. I had ended up choosing Salinas Ecuador but last moment chose Colombia and never regretted it. Its not perfect but where is? Its beautiful but its the people that won me over. I live a little over an hour from medellin. But for several reasons i wouldnt choose to live there...maybe poblado but nowhere else. It is a beatiful city though.

This is an interesting string...I live in ecuador, try to speak Spanish and communicate with locals.  My problem is the pronunciation, even if I know how to spell it I almost always say it wrong.  Living in a coastal "cholo" Spanish community, what I find most of the time is this.  Even if I try, most Ecuadorians know I am a gringo based on my apparent really white skin and blonde hair.  Even if I do happen to pronounce the few words or phrases that I know correctly, they take one look at me and automatically think I don't know the language.  So I downloaded my translate app to work offline (since my service for my phone is still based in the US, and always on airplane mode), I have noticed that most people in my area don't want to look at it or act like they don't know what it says.  It took me a while to realize that I don't think many here in my area can't read, so they don't even want to read a translation.

Regardless of that, the buy in for permanent residency is so much more for Columbia than ecuador, which was our initial attraction to moving here.  We own our house, and as an educated accountant (& CPA test qualified in all states), I know eventually the money conversion will bite you in the ass.  In today's world, with all unknowns, who knows when that could or will be.  I don't like surprises and like to be able to always know what my budget results are gonna be, I do like the fact that I could live my normal lifestyle more so in Columbia.  However, Ecuador has taught me what is really more important in life and not so much material things.  The fact that a pair of my shoes cost more than the minimum wage in both countries makes one think a little bit.  However, I still love my shoes and purses, I have learned a lot about myself and lifestyle.  So I'm thinking the fact that I own my own residence,

Sophems how old are you ?

This is a difficult question for me. I love both countries very much. If I could pick up all my shit and move to either Ecuador or Colombia, I'd be packing up my things this second.

Ecuador is more expensive right now. It's odd because in 2013 I spent 3 months in Ecuador and then rode the bus to Colombia for 3 months. I had a bit of price shock going into Colombia. But now, the Colombian peso is Soooooo cheap.

I liked Cuenca even though I got a bit bored there. Very nice weather. A beautiful city.

I didn't have any desire to visit Guayaquil. I've never heard any good things about it. I'm an open minded guy, but I just don't think I'd like it. Every time I met any sort of unsavory Ecuadoran, he was from Guayaquil. Every damn time. It's my opinion without even visiting the place that Guayaquil is full of criminal assholes. If I'm wrong, then enjoy the place. I'm not going.

If you want to see Ecuador, my favorite place in the world is Banos. I spent 2 months there and smiled from ear to ear every day. I would just walk around town and have this big goofy grin because I was so happy to be there.

As far as comparing the Colombians to the Ecuadoreans, that's hard to do. They're very different. I can't say which I like more. I love both of them. The Ecuadorans were nice to me but they're more shy and they keep to themselves. The Colombians are VERY much more outgoing and social. And the Colombians love Gringos in general. I don't think either country is more pro or con about America. They're just different. They both will wear Boston Redsocks or New York Yankees jerseys. You'll be welcome in either place.

I can't say which is more beautiful. I've seen some incredible scenery in both countries.

I don't know what to tell you. I love Ecuador and Colombia very much. But Colombia is cheaper right now, and that's my next trip.

cccmedia wrote:

At numbeo.com, I compared a monthly rental (3 BR) outside the city center between Cuenca and Medellín.  The Cuenca apartment was more expensive at $401 than the Medellín apartment at $353, supporting your point.

The once-common view of Ecuador being cheaper than Colombia is clearly subject to review.  You may have noticed that the OP's research, mentioned in her second sentence of this thread's initial post, indicated a finding that Ecuador was cheaper.

OK, thanks to Brandon, we now realize why Ecuador used to be cheaper than Colombia but now the opposite appears to be true:

Ecuador remains on the US dollar as currency, while the Colombian peso's value against the dollar has dropped by over 30 percent in the last year-plus.

Brand-new condos here in the Coffee Zone, with two bedrooms and a swimming pool/jacuzzi on property, are now selling for as little as $18,000 to $19,000 U.S.! 

¡Vaya!

cccmedia in the Coffee Zone

43

Ccc can you name a few citìes that have prices like that? Im going to visit a friend who lives south of cali end of this month and were going roadtrip around. Hes told me prices there

cccmedia wrote:

Brand-new condos here in the Coffee Zone, with two bedrooms and a swimming pool/jacuzzi on property, are now selling for as little as $18,000 to $19,000 U.S.!

lolwut? That's so great.

Is it a difficult task for a foreigner to own a house? Would you have full rights to it?

I read my husband your post on the cheap condos in the coffee section, which neither of us knows where that is in Columbia.  The first words out of his mouth were let's buy one.  I laughed and said over my dead body.  He complains about the building here and getting things done right and in a reasonable time frame.  He threatens to sell everything we have here and move to a " better" country.  I keep saying they are all the same and this was your dream not mine.  If we move I'm going back to the US, unless of course it's a tropical island in the South Pacific.  He tried to convince me it would be a great rental opportunity, which we did for 3 years on our Florida home until I finally convinced him to sell it.  When I went back for the inspection I was floored at the mess the rentors had made and was surprised anyone wanted to buy it without repairs being done.  Never again!!

The under-$20,000 (US) condos are in the Pereira and Armenia area of western Colombia, five-plus hours south of Medellín by bus .. about halfway between Bogotá and the Pacific Ocean.  The altitude in this area is about 4,900 feet above sea level.

The company that is offering them has a website at www.fincaraiz.com.co

This is a well-established developer.

However, don't expect to find the $18,000 condos on the website.  I found them in a newly-published company real-estate booklet .. and many of them are new construction, as in ‘being built now'.  I'll post more details, including the names of some condo projects, a bit later when I have more time.

As for having "full rights", I expect so but have not seen the purchase paperwork.

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera

BrandonBP wrote:

cccmedia wrote:

Brand-new condos here in the Coffee Zone, with two bedrooms and a swimming pool/jacuzzi on property, are now selling for as little as $18,000 to $19,000 U.S.!

lolwut? That's so great.

Is it a difficult task for a foreigner to own a house?

By “house", I presume we're talking condos.

I have bought a condo in the capital of Ecuador, but not in Colombia.  So I can't speak from personal experience about the ease of the purchase process in Colombia.

I expect you should be able to buy a condo here as a foreigner if you can pay cash.  Financing?  You'd have to communicate with the developer to see what, if anything, is being offered.

Important caveat -- if you buy anything in pre-construction or during construction, expect delays.

Don't rush into anything without doing your due diligence.  The caution not to buy property in South America before spending a year in the target area .. has not been lifted.

cccmedia in La Zona.

Crazy delays I learned that lesson the hard way, but it was a blessing in disguise.  We got tired of waiting, we bought pre-construction knocked out walls and a bedroom.  Doubled the size of my kitchen and made my second bedroom and closets bigger.  After having to pay $1,100 a month for rent here for over a year and a half we sold it for a profit and bought a bigger house brand new for less.  Since the earthquake had we kept it, the value of it from my preconstruction price is down $50-60k, if not more.  So we ended up being better off but it was a year and a half of hell!!

Hi SmithCGC - you definitely started a great thread here. Some really helpful responses. I haven't been to Ecuador (I plan for that to be the next place I check out) but I did spend a month in Medellin (last November).   I see on your profile that you were interested in Puerto Rico at some point as well. Do you already speak Spanish?  In any of these countries, speaking Spanish makes a HUGE difference. For everything.  Where do you live now?

OK, time now permits posting more information about the under-$20,000 (US) condos offered by the Finca Raiz development company.

Keep in mind that some of these projects may be in the construction phase...

In the Pereira, Colombia, area:

1. Loma Linda -- 3 bedroom condos with one bathroom

2. Acqua Gran Parque Residencial -- 3 BR, 1 BA

In the Armenia, Colombia, area .. these under-20K condos are 1-BR units, with larger condos available but not necessarily under 20K*....

1.  Oro Negro (Black Gold) Parque Residencial

2.  San Luis Rey Parque Residencial

Not all of the above projects/offerings are guaranteed to have swimming pools.

Dozens of condo offerings/projects are shown in this price range and various upper ranges.

The information, with photos or renderings, appears in the Finca Raiz booklet of the type given away at USA supermarkets, only here it's more likely you'll find them at real estate sales offices.  I got the booklet at a condo-project sales office, one of several, up the hill on the Armenia-to-Circasia road.  If you're going by, you can't miss the signage such as ‘Sala de Ventas (condo complex name)'.

Since many of these condo developments may not be shown at fincaraiz.com.co .. you may want to contact the company via the website contact info .. and then ask about the specific projects by name, as there may be video ‘brochures' available.

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera

*Unless otherwise stated, US dollar-prices on this thread as posted by yours truly are translated from prices in Colombian pesos .. at the floating exchange rate, recently at or near 3,000 COP to the US dollar.
  -- cccmedia

In Armenia -- my favorite city in the Coffee Zone -- another project worth posting about is Torres (Towers) de Orense, offered by a different company and with (apparently) more amenities.

For 80,000,000 Colombian pesos (and up) -- or about $26,600 US based on 1 USD = 3,000 COP -- units at this complex with swimming-pool and "inigualable vistas" (unequaled views) are offered.

The number of bedrooms in a unit available at that price is not mentioned in the flyer.  The square meterage is:  from 64 square meters.  That's a shade under 700 square feet.

source:  flyer for torresdeorense.com
    (phone number in Quindío, Colombia: 317-380-9508)

  -- cccmedia in La Zona

Thanks CCC!!

Hello.
Everything you are looking for you can find in Medellin, plus great weather (it's not called The City of The Eternal Spring for nothing).
Interesting you mention smog, only time it's been an issue was a few days last year due to an uncharacteristc weather pattern that avoided the wind blowing it away, but other than that smog is never an issue here, never mentioned.

Here i found article from April 4  2016

Colombia's second city has been forced to take drastic measures to combat the dizzying levels of pollution that the city is experiencing.

Medellín (the name is pronounced “Me-de-jeen”, by the way) was once famed for being the world's former murder capital. Today, it's seen as an innovation and tourist hub, too.

But, according to pollution watch-dog AQICN.org, the city currently has worse pollution than Mexico City (another Latin American city famed for its poor air quality). At the time of writing, the north of Medellín is experiencing pm2.5 levels – the number of micrograms of particles smaller than 2.5 thousandths of a millimetre across in an average cubic metre of air – of 154 µg/m3. That's two points higher than the most polluted area of Mexico City, and 15 times higher than recommended safe levels.

In response to the crisis, over the weekend, the city's mayor, Federico Gutiérrezn, issued orders banning cars and motorcycles from the road for 27 hours, and restricted the when and where dumpster trucks can operate in the coming days. He even announced the suspension of outdoor activities – including sports events and cycle paths – to protect citizens' health.

moreto62 wrote:

article from April 4, 2016....

Colombia's second city has been forced to take drastic measures to combat the dizzying levels of pollution that the city is experiencing.

By the time I first visited Medellín last June, that pollution incident was long gone. 

In my several visits since, like Juanabana, I have not experienced any smog problem in the Paisa capital.  Most of my time has been spent in the Expat-friendly El Poblado sector.

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera, Colombia

cccmedia: Regarding those $20,000 condos, do you have an idea what is the average cost for the monthly condo dues?  Does that cover property taxes?  What other costs would an owner have besides utilities?  That seems like a great deal.  I can hardly buy a car in the USA for $20,000.

Hi All - not sure if I should start a new thread.... 

Can someone talk about the relative stability (Government) between Ecuador and Colombia?  I'm back in Denver, but still looking at both countries, and I'm hearing some stories about the elections. 

Thanks!