Absolutely Anything Else

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Our system here is made by Bosch and does both the central heating and the water.

Any pics to share?

Yes, here:



Not our house by the way.  That's far too thought out and tidy and doesn't show the pipes sticking out the bottom.  Note: not enough flashing lights for my taste but the indicator light in the middle goes up and down like a flame when it's operating.  It's something.  Oh, and it's gas powered btw.

This is one reason we have decided not to get overly serious about redoing our flat.
Too old and too afraid of what can or could happen once you tear things apart to fix them.Once you take one thing apart, 2 things might break down in the process.
We are thinking of just selling as is, just a few minor repairs for cosmetic purposes.
Been talking about selling for ages, to actually get to that point is another matter...
We bought a nice house in S.Ca. in 1986 which was a "upper working class" home when it was built in the mid 1950's.
Nice wood floors, laundry room, corner lot with built in pool, garden, huge healthy tree lined st. with many homes occupied by original owners, lovely quiet neighborhood.
Paid allot more then we had planned but after seeing the home I just knew it was the one.
We had to tear down old wallpapers and redo the wood floors, we decided to do it ourselves.... Nightmare, tore off the wallpaper in our sons room and half the plaster came off... Took forever to repair it layer by layer.
In the end we brought over my husbands step-bro who was a professional builder in Hungary. Paid him out of pocket plus airfare, vacation a 2 month trip for him for free with about 5 weeks of work involved. ..
It was worth it to just place all the jobs in his hands and just pay for the work rather then trying ourselves and getting frustrated.
So much nicer to buy the material and tell someone else how it should look, sit back and let them get to it. If he was still living and had his crew, we would of redone the flat here. We don't really trust anyone else but family with these big jobs.
We realized we should just stick to the skills we have...
Retiled a bit in our kitchen here in HU, came out-so-so. Better then the old wallpapers but could of turned out better in a pro's hands.
Not so easy to repair 119 years of wear and tear on this place.
Need a total redo, not something we want to do at this late date.
Couple years back our new upstairs neighbor redid the entire flat, took over 6 months and sometimes we still hear them get out the hammer.
Have settled here with the mind set that I am living in a museum.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

This is one reason we have decided not to get overly serious about redoing our flat.

Probably wise.

Paint covers a lot of sins. Wall paper, even more.

Part of our house was actually build against the hill behind it (I am completely at a loss why this was done this way). The walls were so water damage from water seeping in from the soil in contact we seriously considered tearing down that part of the house and rebuilding. We eventually decided to try renovating. Dug around the building so the walls no longer contacted the soil, put up a retaining wall to hold the hill back and away from the house, installed drainage around the house, and put a polycarbonate roof over part of the space between house and hill (too keep the space dry since the wall is still likely to uptake ground soil moisture and to give some outdoor dry storage space). Still took two years for the wall to dry out enough before we could move forward with either external or internal renovation. Fortunately, we did not live here during that time period, so we did not have to live full time in the house being in such a wet mess.

klsallee wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

This is one reason we have decided not to get overly serious about redoing our flat.

Probably wise.

Paint covers a lot of sins. Wall paper, even more.

Part of our house was actually build against the hill behind it (I am completely at a loss why this was done this way). The walls were so water damage from water seeping in from the soil in contact we seriously considered tearing down that part of the house and rebuilding. We eventually decided to try renovating. Dug around the building so the walls no longer contacted the soil, put up a retaining wall to hold the hill back and away from the house, installed drainage around the house.......

I agree.

It baffles me why the obviously unworkable building techniques here always included some obviously bad engineering.  Doesn't matter what it is really.  Drains, electrical, plumbing, there's always something not quite right. 

It's blindingly obvious that if you put soil against walls, it's going to transmit damp to the other side.  It's been known since year zero.

Part of my stairwell is under the ground. I was very observant of what they were doing but I had quite a heated discussion with the "architect" over the drainage. Even after insisting on improved drainage we ended up with a French drainaround the underground parts, I found they only installed it on one side.  Why? I don't know. Presumably laziness or plain ignorance or that they know better. 

Moreover, I am quite sure many construction people here expect water to flow uphill.   In fact, it seems that drainage and damp is something they just don't get. I've now got a bee in my bonnet about drainage. 

I'm going to have to fix a bunch of drainage things here they screwed up.  Everything from the guttering not actually reaching the end of the roof (gaps at the end),  stupid design on our terrace (another uphill drain issue), insufficient fixings for the downpipes, no sealant on the edges around my porch roof so we have  a leak now and on and on and on.

What a huge hassle that must of been, I know by photos that is looks great now.
No, not willing to go through that at this time and place.
My in-laws built their own house in Erd in the 50's, My FIL did a great job with making his cellar because almost everyone in the area of Erd has leaks because the ground is so wet.
With a few really wet years even my FIL had a few issues with water leaks in the cellar and he really put allot of effort into making it water proof.
That can also be a huge issue with these older flats/apts. in the city. Ground level places often are very damp inside and show water marks over the years on the walls, They get musty and dank smelling.
One reason we never even looked at ground level when we were buying, just more issues then it was worth.
I think at some point just renting or leasing a condo with good management is the way to go.
In past years when we rented in the US we never waited more then a day to get a repair done and anything in a emergency was looked at right away. They always had at least 2 on crew to take care of any  problems. Gosh, in Vegas having the A/C going done is a real emergency.
I only once in my life had a rotten maintenance in a apt. Actually it was a flee bag old hotel in Silverlake , Ca. Was a "freeloader teenager" Living with my male gay friend and another person.
Our gay friend who actually had the lease on the place had not been paying rent for a few months without telling us. He was spending more time with his new love and not coming home much.
We got very ill with the flu and the WC broke at the same time.
Never was so ill in my life, probably would of killed me off if not for being so young and strong.
OK, 4 days of being ill and having nothing to eat or drink but sips of water, we went to the manager to tell him the WC was not working.
He refused to fix it because rent was overdue.
Totally against US health codes for him to do that, actually on serious reflection, he and his wife were some sort of eastern Europeans, I do honestly believe they were Hungarians, this is before I met my husband so could of been from another eastern country.
Anyways, smart a** teenager me, took a huge trash bag and left him a treat  outside his front door. He came over the same day to fix the WC and never said a word about his "gift".
I think he knew he was breaking health codes rent or no rent so he got busy and fixed it right away.
Wouldn't of been as lucky if we owned the place.
Moved out of there right after that not for lack of rent being paid but it was time to move on.
I feel for that manager now but kids will be kids.

Trouble is if you live with horrible bathrooms, hideous decor, drafty windows,  damp, crap wiring etc for too long a time you get used to it. And eventually don't see it. But everyone else does.

I'm all for doing things as early as possible if you can. But sometimes finance holds us back.  I've just finished my galleria in my main room and fitted bookshelves.  And also  redecorated my hallway. I find if you do things bit by bit it is always cheaper. I've done all of my apartment now apart from treating myself to a new feature fire in the living room sometime this year and  hopefully fitting in a new  bathroom and separate shower room.
Everything works OK its just ugly. Since prices have risen in Budapest I think doing things properly is an investment.
It's taken me a long time because I  don't want to take the risk and employ the wrong person to do the bathroom. They may make  things worse and some of these tradesmen do not really have the skills . So am doing my separate toilet and shower room first to test the water. Pun intended.

At my holiday  cottage everything works fine and I am realistic enough to know that anything you do doesn't increase the value of the place. So I tend to just enjoy it as it is and not overinvest . I spend very little on the place and it is very make do and mend. Any old junk I don't want in town ends up there.
When I am properly retired I will let it go back to nature. Especially the garden.

But I have just set myself a target to paint one or two rooms a year. It's all white but I love brighter colours. I agree paint hides a multitude of sins. But part of the charm is an earth floor, old tiles and wonky walls.
I've painted one room already and it looks fab

anns wrote:

..... Any old junk I don't want in town ends up there. ...

That's the Hungarian way!

Some junk you cannot even  give away.  We've got rooms of it out in the countryside.

Yes the people who sold me my apartment left bookshelves wardrobes and beds  and it has all ended up there. And occasionally on rubbish day I have found tables or chairs cupboards in the street and they have furnished the place very well.

I think, at least in villages, a lot of the problems are due to the fact that people were doing something akin to a self build but employing other villagers who often only had basic skills and were not trained builders.  There is also a mentality issue, in that houses are not expected to last a long time. My house in Hungary was built in 1948 and extended in 1969. In UK that would not be regarded as a particularly old house but several Hungarians have asked me why I bought such an old house!

I know Budapest is different but I do miss the old buildings you see everywhere in UK. In most of Hungary there are very few old buildings, certainly in terms of buildings contemporary with the English Tudor, half timbered structures. The materials may be much older than the structures, recycling has long been an economic necessity rather than a desire to be "green". The random notches in my roof timbers show that they are at least 2nd hand, perhaps third. The bricks were probably also old ones, some in better condition than others. Some of them are falling to pieces, they were probably left outside and got frost damage before they were re-used. British bricks can be stacked outside and left for years, Hungarian bricks need to be protected from rain or they will return to nature.

anns wrote:

Yes the people who sold me my apartment left bookshelves wardrobes and beds  and it has all ended up there. And occasionally on rubbish day I have found tables or chairs cupboards in the street and they have furnished the place very well.

I've seen some quite good stuff in the street.

On the other hand, leaving it in an apartment is one way of dealing with it.  I had to specify to the previous owners to clear it completely.  Even so they ignored us somewhat and we ended up with piles of junk like sofas.  In the end, we just got the builders to dump it in their skip.

Now we have even more junk to get rid of like dishwashers.   Even though Mrs Fluffy is a local, even she cannot find out how to get rid of it. Someone could get the dishwashers working or use the parts for repairs or just sell the scrap metal.  I am sure it's possible.  Some nice motors and valves in them. 

It's a shame there's not something here like Freecycle.  It would be very useful for many people here.

I'm usually after metal like steel or real wood - this is pricey stuff.   I saw some rather nifty larger sized clay flower pots last year but I was on my bike and didn't have a way to carry them.  By the time I got back in the car, it was all gone!

Of course I am no professional builder or contractor but I do think considering how old many of these city apts. are that they were built very well.
In the 1970's my husband lived in Paris France for a year, he said most of those apts. back then could easily be punched through to the next flat since the walls were crumbling to pieces.
In 1986 we looked at the old place he had lived in in 1971.
It had turned into a nice hotel on the left bank, a far cry from what it had been.
From the outside it looked almost the same as it had always looked.
He also said in 71 not all apt. in Paris had their own WC or bath, in Hungary almost every apt. had at least their own WC, some did share with neighbors or have a key for the entire floor to use in the house.They redid apts very fast after the war and putting in a WC or bath in each apt. took some time.Most people were happy to have a roof over their heads.
Think that was also common in many European cities in the 20th century.
My step-dad was stationed in 1962 in Germany and used to go to the UK all the time when he was free. Said many apts. and places still used a outhouse even in the city.
Big deal to have indoor plumbing let alone a bath just for your own use.
When the communists came into power they may of taken away some flats that were too large for one or two people, made 2 apts. out of them or even just moved a family in with the old owners, let them hash it out themselves who got what room etc.
It's a wonder there wasn't more murders back then!
Before my husband left Hungary he moved out of his parents flat in the 5th to a bed sit in the 8th. His room mate was a widow in her 80's. That's how hard it used to be to find a place to live in Budapest.This was around 1968. Strange to have a young Mod guy living with a 80 year old women. He said she was the sweetest room mate ever. Cooked for him and sewed his socks etc. He never even asked for that extra service but she was available and he paid her extra for extra service like cleaning , cooking and sewing. That's how hard times here used to be.
In fact when he was thinking of leaving HU, she was the only person he told. His parents were dragged into the police station and questioned as to where he went but no one knew of this old friend of his who knew it all. Bless her heart.


One thing they did do was to make sure apts were modernized .
One of my husband uncles lived in the 5th , our niece now owns the flat and rents it out.
It didn't have a WC pre WW11 when he moved in, had to use the common one down the hall and go to the bath house at the Rudas to take a bath.
This uncle was a huge party member but silly him was a true believer because the party chose to fix up his flat for him for free, put in a shower and WC and redo the entire place in the 1950's. They moved him out for months to another apt.near the Market Hall, free rent and all.
He was so mad at the party for wasting money on him that he gave back his party book!
Thought that was a bit extreme on his part but shows how frugal some people can be, one does get used to things the way the are and adapt to circumstances.
All these flats seem to have had a once over at some point from 1900 to now, almost all the flats in the city were built larger but chopped up after the war years to make room for more people in the city.
One thing I do like about these old places, they are all different inside and no two are exactly the same.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.....
It didn't have a WC pre WW11 when he moved in, had to use the common one down the hall and go to the bath house at the Rudas to take a bath.
This uncle was a huge party member but silly him was a true believer because the party chose to fix up his flat for him for free, put in a shower and WC and redo the entire place in the 1950's. They moved ....

That reminds me of the old "joke" about extending life of your underwear by several days - turn it inside out for the 1st extra day and then back to front for a 2nd extra day.   That's one way to get a UTI (Urinary Tract Infection).  Bath time once a year or once a month.

In my UK school days, Soviet sphere communist health policies were never mentioned as having any positive effects whatsoever.   

We're taught more or less that the Romans brought bathing (and central heating) to us and then with major health emergencies like the spread of typhoid caused by poor human waste management into the water supply, we ended up with proper sewers (even though the untreated waste went in the rivers and/or out to sea).   And of course - just to fly the flag a bit more - we have the famous Mr Crapper, inventor of the siphonic toilet flush and improver of the S-bend.

I've always wondered if and how the old guard true believers rationalised the failure of that political system.  How did they explain it away to themselves?  Or even feel the need to apologise to those who suffered?

I do believe they have a online site here to unload free items.
I'll look into it and let you know.
Funny hearing about used dishwashers etc.
Takes me back some.
In his youth my step-dad, no. 2 , had his own heating, A/C business in N. Ca. with about 15 trucks.
Long story PTSD etc. he lost it all in his 6 divorces...
Anyways he dabbled part-time doing home repairs like washing machines, dryers, dishwashers freezers heating. A/C in our small town in Ca.
Sometimes items were too far gone and the clients just gave them to my step-dad.
He unloaded them in my mother's huge patio in her back yard. Dang, talk about one angry women, it got out of control, he collected more then he was repairing to resale. She need a new fridge herself at one point, step-dad didn't fix one that was in his collection so she bought herself a new one for over $1,800 .in the 1980's.Just to rub it in his face so to speak. Made her madder then a hatter to have her home turned into a junk yard. Once he even bought a small boat and placed it in her yard, she couldn't swim either!


Then she called up a junk yard to just remove all of his "projects" from her patio.

I just found out why our uncle in the 50's had no WC or bath in his flat.
After WW11 he had no place to live, so the house converted a store room, a large one into a flat. Took a couple of years before the gov. came around and fit it with good plumbing etc. and added the bathroom for him.
Seems there really was a tight housing shortage after the war, so many buildings went down and people were happy to live anywhere.
Now that old storage room is worth a pretty penny... I wonder what the history is of many of these old apts. some may of been wash rooms or food storage units in their day, now turned into posh flats.
I know the history pretty much of our flat, our 72 year old neighbor was born growing up next door. We are the 5th owners of our apt.
Not too bad considering it is over 100 years old.
Our building was always apt. units built for middle class tradesmen.
Not posh but not bad either.
I know that in 56 many people just left everything and left the country. People just claimed apts. for their own, moved in and held their ground.
Our old friends father was killed because of this.
He moved his family into a empty flat in the 5th, a really large place with 2 patios on what is now a very quiet st. which cars are not allowed on.
Someone else wanted the flat so they made up lies about him from the war years and during the insanity of 56 he was taken to a kangaroo court and then hung.
His wife tried to collect in 1989 from the gov. for this crime but was turned down. Not fair at all.
Sad, really sad because he really died for a piece of material property when his family would of rathered he moved them into a tent then lose him.

Not sure about old uncle, he was a sore spot for some of the family, my FIL was held for 5 or 6 years in the Gulag because he was captured in WW11 with his unit. Family dinners were not exactly fun times between the two of them.
Then again uncle was a sweet man, who gave up his whole life for his family.
Never married because he was the eldest of 9 kids.
Their father died in his 30's leaving the mom with all those kids. His role was to step in and get a job and help raise his younger sibs. I met him when he was in his 80's but in his youth he was very good looking and women loved him but he turned everyone down in marriage because he had a role as helper to his mother. He took care of her until she died at 86 years old. By then it was too late for him to have his own family. Very dramatic stuff, serious minded selfless people who never stopped giving.
Hard to judge them now , we can't see the world the way they did.
Feeling a bit like a boob today, so nice outside and I'm indoors today!! Having Sunday roast on Saturday so that's one reason I give myself  for being a shut in today. Tomorrow is another day.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've always wondered if and how the old guard true believers rationalised the failure of that political system.  How did they explain it away to themselves?  Or even feel the need to apologise to those who suffered?

It is important to know that some people like demagogues, authoritarians, and dictatorships because only under such regimes and social/political structures can they personally profit. So, no, by their very nature of who they are, to their core, they do not care about others that suffer under such regimes.

And, yes, the same can be said about ultra-capitalists (i.e. few in Europe understand the high cost US Health care system. Or why the US lacks a single payer system).

Far left or far right: lack of empathy toward others never seeks apologies. Sad.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Moreover, I am quite sure many construction people here expect water to flow uphill.   In fact, it seems that drainage and damp is something they just don't get. I've now got a bee in my bonnet about drainage.

I have had the same experience. They do not understand water here. Especially water in soil, but not limited to that. Such as installing gutters. Not uncommonly without much thought as to what happens at the bottom where the water comes out. Excellent jaw dropping example on a newly renovated house nearby. Will try to remember to take a picture tomorrow and post it here when I take the dog for his morning walk.

fidobsa wrote:

I think, at least in villages, a lot of the problems are due to the fact that people were doing something akin to a self build but employing other villagers who often only had basic skills and were not trained builders.  There is also a mentality issue, in that houses are not expected to last a long time. My house in Hungary was built in 1948 and extended in 1969. In UK that would not be regarded as a particularly old house but several Hungarians have asked me why I bought such an old house!

Our house has two building periods. The main house (old wine processing house), was built over 100 years ago. It is built really well, even if just built of stone and dirt. Then we have an "extension" on the back, build probably in the late 1970's or early 1980's. This is built of brick and what might be laughing called mortar, and what I called sand with a dash of lime (you could remove it with your fingernail). It is really not build well at all (as part of the renovation we actually removed 2 cm of mortar around each brick and re-cemented it with a proper mortar). The cause of such rather shoddy construction seems rather simple to me: Communism. The so called "collective" society drained people's collective historical knowledge how to do things correctly.

klsallee wrote:

....I have had the same experience. They do not understand water here. Especially water in soil, but not limited to that. Such as installing gutters. Not uncommonly without much thought as to what happens at the bottom where the water comes out. Excellent jaw dropping example on a newly renovated house nearby. Will try to remember to take a picture tomorrow and post it here when I take the dog for his morning walk.

Yes, for sure.  The recent cold weather was a good example.  The water is dumped onto the paths from houses and then it freezing over turning it into a very dangerous ice sheet.  Just where people need to walk.  I've never quite understood why they put the drain pipes over the paths at gutter height to drain into the outside ditch.  Why not put them in the ground and then it can drain away more directly and not look so ugly. 

In my own direct case, I've had to dig trenches recently in the past to get the water away from the house - and I live on a slope.

klsallee wrote:

..........
It is important to know that some people like demagogues, authoritarians, and dictatorships because only under such regimes and social/political structures can they personally profit. So, no, by their very nature of who they are, to their core, they do not care about others that suffer under such regimes.

And, yes, the same can be said about ultra-capitalists (i.e. few in Europe understand the high cost US Health care system. Or why the US lacks a single payer system).

Far left or far right: lack of empathy toward others never seeks apologies. Sad.

Sounds like they were all to some degree sociopaths, psychopaths or possibly narcissists (at least at the very top). 

Or is it simply a variant on agency theory and moral hazard?

Obviously some of them really believed in that stuff which is hard to grasp that anyone could want to keep pushing that ideology these days.

klsallee wrote:

And, yes, the same can be said about ultra-capitalists (i.e. few in Europe understand the high cost US Health care system. Or why the US lacks a single payer system).

Yes, I'm one of those that doesn't get why universal health care is such a tough nut to crack there.   

I was just musing on a bit of juxtaposition  of two arguments - If the the founding documents of the USA included a right to access to universal (free) health care (e.g. all the lines of all (wo)men are equal etc),   I wondered if there would be a "NHA" ("National Health Association") in the Supreme Court arguing for rescinding it, vis-a-vis:  the NRA and 2nd amendment.   

Well, it's a thought.  Might muse on that a bit more with some Merlot.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Yes, I'm one of those that doesn't get why universal health care is such a tough nut to crack there.   

I was just musing on a bit of juxtaposition  of two arguments - If the the founding documents of the USA included a right to access to universal (free) health care (e.g. all the lines of all (wo)men are equal etc),   I wondered if there would be a "NHA" ("National Health Association") in the Supreme Court arguing for rescinding it, vis-a-vis:  the NRA and 2nd amendment.   

Well, it's a thought.  Might muse on that a bit more with some Merlot.

I think the average European simply can't comprehend the scale of corruption in USA. I see it as a country where you can buy anything:  a jury, a war, the presidency or just the status quo, in cases where you want to block changes, such as the introduction of universal health care.

klsallee wrote:

Will try to remember to take a picture tomorrow and post it here when I take the dog for his morning walk.

Well, here it is. Sorry it is not a great picture. I have a lousy camera, early morning shadows, and took it from the road (won't trespass). But I hope one can see that the multiple problems:

- Drain spout ends up on the stairs, making the wall wet.
- Water from this spout during heavy rains can also send extra water into the recessed cellar entrance
- The cement block terrace is new. Was just dirt before. Forward thinking about water disposal away from the house should have included a drain pipe under that terrace.  A bit late now.
- Because of the above, there are two "U" rain gutters just laid on the stairs and ground to catch and divert the water away from the house, terrace and cellar. Is this a temporary solution until they rip up their terrace (and a bit of newly poured concrete at the base of the house) and do it right? Or will this be their permanent solution? I don't know.






-

The US is so large and corruption at so many levels that the average person hardly notices it.
Deep state stuff.
In smaller countries it's more in your face.
The UK has it's share of scandals too. One that comes to my mind at a instant is that Jimi Saville  affair. Nasty, old, twisted perv taking advantage of ill and dying children. Went on for decades too.
It was known what he was doing but since everyone loved old Jimi they gave him a free pass. I actually can't understand how anyone could even look at him let alone think of him as some fantastic humanitarian.
He wasn't alone either which really is a kicker.
Lots of corruption world wide which is now being exposed, the veil has lifted.
What I think is going to be very hard for future generations is AI and 5 G networks, health and privacy issues are something to really think about.
In the mean time we must all deal with Fukushima and the fall out that's coming our way no matter where you live or what rock you try to hide under.
It's already too dangerous to eat most ocean fish these days.
Even "organic" foods are grown in soil that is already corrupted.
Let's not even get into the water supply or chemtrails.

I am considering fitting proper water barrels on my downpipes.

fidobsa wrote:

I think the average European simply can't comprehend the scale of corruption in USA. I see it as a country where you can buy anything:  a jury, a war, the presidency or just the status quo

Sure. Because there are no massively corrupt businesses, organizations or governments in Europe. Nope. None at all. 

Relatively speaking, of the places I have personally lived, I find Hungary more corrupt, on multiple levels, than either the Switzerland (least corruption) or the USA (a bit more corruption than Switzerland). Which pretty much matches what Transparency international' index reports.

One thing about health care in the US, unless you are willing to buy a hospital a entire wing, doctors never ever except or expect tips for health services.
Even after all this time in HU I still can't get my mind around the tipping thing for quality care.
Not every staff member or doctor expects or takes here but more then enough do to make one scratch their heads.
Another good thing in the US with min. health coverage is they don't over operate on people unless you have great health insurance.
My friend found herself cut, diced and sliced into a wheelchair due to her husband having great health coverage.With lesser coverage, she would of been sent off to PT or given a free gym membership, would of been better off in the long run.
Another old friend who I have known forever is very low income, she is a couple years older then I am and her husband has some mental issues.
Long story, they were homeless for a couple of years, now have a low income apt. but 2 blocks from the Santa Monica beach. One block from the mall and her fave Starbucks in on the corner.
She "worked" they system hard and is living in a very exclusive area for only $650. a month in rent.
I don't think they have many of these social services over here unless you are a refugee or immigrant.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Obviously some of them really believed in that stuff which is hard to grasp that anyone could want to keep pushing that ideology these days.

Plenty of books and articles written about this. Basically, my take away from them is I am not sure they do necessarily believe their own rhetoric. Some "true believers" do exist in the group, but I think for many in charge and at the top it is just a tool. A unscrupulous tool. But an tool. It puts them into power and keeps them in power. Which allows them to create and maintain a crony system for their and inner circle's benefit who also then support them to stay in power. They will do anything to then stay in power, as if they loose power they fear potential prosecution because it is not unlikely their actions were not aways, shall we say, "above board".

To stay in power they invoke fear in the population that only they can protect the population from some "threat". It is an internal threat that must be "purged" or external perceived threat that must be blocked. In either case, the "threat" is either exaggerated (over emphasizing the issue, or places many unrelated blames on this "threat" source) or may not be accurate, factual, even be real (but they can try to make the people think their version is real, even when it isn't).

This is an old game. And a frightening one. Because the person who described it effectively in cold, factual terms was Hermann Goering. (Yes, I know.... Godwin's law. Whatever. If the shoe fits, even if an ugly shoe, it is sometimes correct to put in on).

Speaking of homeless in the US.
My friend I was referring to actually was living out of her car between staying with people. Just no "official" address in her name.
She worked out of Starbucks, her job was posting her own Go Fund Me page.
Not sure what the heck happened to her over the years, but not exactly a friend to be proud of these days.
Now she and her husband have 100% health coverage with the Ca. state .
They work part-time doing music on the strand at Santa Monica and her husband's life time job was tuning pianos. I never knew that was a "real job"...Not like her worked for a orchestra, more like door to door tuning.
She will probably be suing the country soon because she had some PT for her strumming arm in her home of all things and the therapist popped her shoulder and now she thinks they tore her rotator cup. Her music days are over because of her arm so they will have to support her forever now.
Only in the USA.
I need new friends...
In other words, don't believe everything the media says about things in the US. If one has half a brain they can live very well there without doing much just need to work the system. Maybe Trump will put a tighter hold on these programs but in Ca. at least it is easy street for low income people. If you have small children or are a senior then they bend over backwards with different programs.
My cousin was a US vet for about 2 weeks, now get VA benefits. Is Bi-polar and a vet and disabled because he let himself blow up and get overweight. They gave him a brand new apt. in Albq. free health care services and free rides to doctors. All he seems to do is put photos of his nice dinners online and buy new guns... Makes me wonder really it does. Oh, yes, he also became a Muslim years ago and uses that excuse because he did a legal name change to a Muslim name. Says he is a minority ect. I mean, give me a break already!
Rich or "poor" in the Us is the way to go, middle class pays for everything, really going to break down the system any time now... working class can not support everyone and their uncles.
My bro makes a very good income but is so mad all the time, the taxes he pays are not a joke and his is armed and getting madder everyday. Something is going to happen and it's not going to be pretty.
I want to go "home" but if I believed everything the media was printing I would rather move to a remote Island in the S. Pacific and hide.

klsallee wrote:

klsallee wrote:

Will try to remember to take a picture tomorrow and post it here when I take the dog for his morning walk.

Well, here it is. Sorry it is not a great picture. I have a lousy camera, early morning shadows, and took it from the road (won't trespass). But I hope one can see that the multiple problems:

- Drain spout ends up on the stairs, making the wall wet.
- Water from this spout during heavy rains can also send extra water into the recessed cellar entrance
- The cement block terrace is new. Was just dirt before. Forward thinking about water disposal away from the house should have included a drain pipe under that terrace.  A bit late now.
- Because of the above, there are two "U" rain gutters just laid on the stairs and ground to catch and divert the water away from the house, terrace and cellar. Is this a temporary solution until they rip up their terrace (and a bit of newly poured concrete at the base of the house) and do it right?
-

Classic!

That's a bit like my drainage problem.  I've temporarily "solved" it by adding an additional pipe on the end, leading to a trench .  Now the water flows away from the house (mostly).  When this is fixed properly (when the builders come back), the rainwater will go elsewhere (anywhere but there).

Mrs Fluffy actually met the "architect" in Aldi and he asked about the house to which she replied, the drainage is not very good and will need repairing.  His response, "nothing wrong with a bit of rain".

D'oh.

Speaking of "Drainage" , makes me think of Trump wanting to drain the swamp...
Hungary has very damp soil in many regions .
You would think by now they knew how to build on it.
Maybe going, "Island Style" and building up high on a platform would help.
Got very off topic even on this forum of anything else.
Suppose owning a house has a whole set of other issues from living in a flat.
Off to enjoy the great weather outside... Everyone have a great day...

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....
I want to go "home" but if I believed everything the media was printing I would rather move to a remote Island in the S. Pacific and hide.

Mrs Fluffy said she wanted to run upstairs and hide under the bed with all the HU politicking going on.  I said she couldn't do that because there would be no room. I would already be under there hiding from the UK and every other politicking I read about on a daily basis.

Whatever you do Marilyn, don't move to Favoriten in Vienna, it's full of evil foreigners*.

*if you don't know what I mean, I'll send you a PM about it.  Hot subject at the moment hereabouts.

Back already from our Sunday walk about.
Skies look a bit off now, grey, could be the trails...
My husband mentioned earlier that Brussels is putting pressure on HU to take in more refugees and that HU has to give each one 30,000 Euros to start off their new lives... At least 100,000 people to start with. I don't really know if this is actually going to happen or not but dang that's allot of people in a small country with a different culture... Just saying seems like oil and water to me.
Please tell me where a American women can go and be a refugee and collect 30,000 Euros, for a couple that would really be a nice jump start.
If this is true at all I by looking into my crystal ball ( kidding) predict allot of people demonstrating to get some EU funds themselves over here in Hungary. Or to leave the EU... Russia becoming a closer tie here again?
Most people I know have worked for it, not been given a penny for free, except for users .
Please ask Mrs. Fluffy if there is any room under the bed for us!
That's actually sort of cute, Hungarians can come up with some of the sweetest little things to say not knowing how charming they are.
Going back to 30,000 Euros, reminds me of my crazy bi-polar cuz( from the black sheep side of the fam) who is now living of the gov. of the US in his new apt. with food stamps and VA health care... He was turned down the first time he claimed disability with the US gov.
Took a couple of years of his drama to be given these benefits. They back paid him a lump sum of over $30,000 to make up for the time between his filling and his claim going through...
Middle class rioting is another thing I see in my crystal ball, something has got to give.
My son is just about ready to head for the hills in Japan.
His in-laws have a mountain hideaway in S. Japan with garden etc. He is ready to give it all up ( whatever that is) and find his peace on earth.
Maybe some day , who knows I may move over there too to be with him in my very old age... That would be very odd but then again, I love sushi, not to mention the sake... Sake, yes, I may start packing now.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Back already from our Sunday walk about.
Skies look a bit off now, grey, could be the trails...
My husband mentioned earlier that Brussels is putting pressure on HU to take in more refugees and that HU has to give each one 30,000 Euros to start off their new lives... At least 100,000 people to start with. I don't really know if this is actually going to happen or not but dang that's allot of people in a small country with a different culture... Just saying seems like oil and water to me.
Please tell me where a American women can go and be a refugee and collect 30,000 Euros, for a couple that would really be a nice jump start.
If this is true at all I by looking into my crystal ball ( kidding) predict allot of people demonstrating to get some EU funds themselves over here in Hungary. Or to leave the EU... Russia becoming a closer tie here again? ....

I don't believe a word of that 30K EUR being given to each refugee.   And I don't believe the 100K people either.  Hungary agreed to the quotas anyway, it's already been decided in the courts and the EU pays Hungary billions each year - a very significant amount of their budget which they (Hungary) cannot afford to lose.   It all sounds like politicking again.  No doubt some one will refute it easily enough.  I'm going to hide under a blanket.

In any case,  who needs the EU? I regularly get offered money from the USA and other places.  Yup, incredible, some Nigerian guys sent me an e-mail variously telling me they were the Nigerian Fraud Office and the US government, Bill Gates, the UN, Lassie, The Waltons and the cast of Cats have decided to get together to compensate me anything between $1.5M - $49M for being scammed previously.  Their info must be good because I didn't even realise I'd been scammed. All I have to do is send the  Nigerians $$$$ at their Western Union account or Bitcoin wallet and they will do the rest.  Hungarian government could get in on that as alternative to funding from the EU. 

We were going out to walk about in the hills but after some intensive gardening this morning, we saw that rain was forecast and decided not to go. Big black clouds loomed ....and....nothing happened!  Wasted opportunity.

Next week, I'm seeing 21 C on the weekend forecasts.  'bout time.

It's true, can't believe anything you read or see any longer. Think the media is owned by only 3 different companies in the world.
Talk about one sided.
Might be a good idea to hide under the blanket but I guess I'll settle for my tin foil hat. Have a good day.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

It's true, can't believe anything you read or see any longer. Think the media is owned by only 3 different companies in the world.
Talk about one sided.
Might be a good idea to hide under the blanket but I guess I'll settle for my tin foil hat. Have a good day.

I might take up a different job  working with pandas.  Ok, yes, I can wear pyjamas all day:



I know. WTF?!

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

My husband mentioned earlier that Brussels is putting pressure on HU to take in more refugees and that HU has to give each one 30,000 Euros to start off their new lives... At least 100,000 people to start with. I don't really know if this is actually going to happen or not

Not. Because it is fake. I won't call this "fake news" because it is not "news". Just fake.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

It's true, can't believe anything you read or see any longer.

That is basically the point. Disinformation. To make you doubt professional information sources as well. Old style methods employed especially when pushed from authoritarians or authoritarian states. Can be quite effective if you want to destroy something.

Web 2.0 where everyone is talking and few are listening makes free democracies vulnerable by outside actors in this way simply by giving more opportunities for disruption and chaos. And in chaos there is opportunity (paraphrased from "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu 5th century BC --  the idea has been around a long time).

As a thought experiment: It is like trying to have a football game where naturally everyone wants their team to win, but everyone also agrees to respect the calls of the referee (of course they can complain about it -- but in the end accept the referee's final judgment). Now imagine some outside actors who have a side bet on the outcome of the game. If they can find a way to make the referee be seen as "untrustworthy", and then moving in and telling the cowed they, as outside actors, are the only ones that can give everyone an "honest game". Then they take over. But of course, they won't give an honest game -- they started with completely opposite plans to only enrich themselves.

fluffy2560 wrote:

In any case,  who needs the EU? I regularly get offered money from the USA and other places.  Yup, incredible, some Nigerian guys sent me an e-mail variously telling me they were the Nigerian Fraud Office and the US government, Bill Gates, the UN, Lassie, The Waltons and the cast of Cats have decided to get together to compensate me anything between $1.5M - $49M for being scammed previously.

Funny stuff.

But to be serious. I have not gotten any emails from Lassie et al. for years. The modern SPAM system on my email account is that good. Which is why Facebook saying they can not deal with similar fake content on their system is bogus. The company does not want to. Because of the bottom line. The various and vast number of email providers had it in their financial interest to create better and better anit-SPAM systems because enough of their users hated such junk mail and complained. And those who had better SPAM blocks could get more users. Facebook is a closed system -- one company, maybe a effective monopoly as there are few "other places to go" -- that values harvesting user data. Limiting user content, even to bogus content, limits interactions which cuts into the bottom line. Facebook has little to no fiscal interest in truly and correctly "de-SPAMMING" their system.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Mrs Fluffy actually met the "architect" in Aldi and he asked about the house to which she replied, the drainage is not very good and will need repairing.  His response, "nothing wrong with a bit of rain".

Boom! Right there I would have "fired" that person. I pay them for their work, as per my specs. I won't be "handled".

fluffy2560 wrote:

I know. WTF?!

Looking closely at its wide open eyes, I think that is what the baby panda is thinking.

Exactly what I was thinking, is this animal abuse or not?...