Absolutely Anything Else

Makes me think of Jimmy Savile, he died before his horrors came to light.
My father once skated at Madison Square Garden with Sonja Henie.
He was about 19 or so , just before he was drafted into WW11.
She was done really with her days of competing in figure skating but was working the circut doing exhibitions and some performances.
Her regular skating partner had a injury and she saw my father doing his thing at a rink and asked him to practice a short program with her.
After the performance my father noticed she had sliced the top of his skate with her blade and he had a tiny bit of a mark with some blood in his boot. No wonder she went through handsome young men like nothing.
Heard she was a bit of a "maneater" and never liked to be outshone by another skater.
Fame makes people crazy
I have run into a few famous to semi-famous people in Ca. years back. I never liked it at all, always tried my hardest to not see them even if they were right in front of me.
I once served Mickey Rooney a hamburger, that was weird.
I also had David Carradine come in and order 2 dry meat patties for his dog at the same working place. He was very odd even for a movie star. He was doing that Kung Fu TV show at the time he came in.
He looked like a bum, he was obviously stoned out of his mind or just had normal blood shot eyes and a strange glassy eyed over look to his face while driving a baby blue old open topped American car.
His passenger was a homeless looking older man, 3 days of stubble on his face, no shirt on , just some old bib top blue jeans and a ragged old dog in the back seat...That was more then weird, boarded on creepy. david just stared into space, looked right at me and then stared off again. The old guy did the ordering and paying... Gave me a dollar tip! 2 dry meat patties to go, hold everything else.
My sister had so many stories about famous people. She was always eating dinner in high end places on dates and often sat near the "rich and famous".
Once in N. Hollywood at a traffic light she said James Woods the actor jumped out of his car ,his girlfriend also got out and he was screaming and chasing her around the car...My sister drove off when the light changed.
6 degrees of separation. So true sometimes I think the world actually is less populated then they say.
Seems I am always running into someone who knows someone that knows yet another someone who lived close by.
I worked early on as  a hairdresser in a shop in Ca. on ventura Blvd. Many B level stars would come in for a cut or bring in their kids. Not a high end shop but ok and in a great neighborhood.
My manager was a super cool women who was about 10 years my senior. For the life of me I can't remember who her grandfather was but I do know when she told me I knew straight away who he was at the time. A old stage actor from the UK who came to Hollywood in it's hey day and worked in big films.
She had the best of it,she inherited his huge estate in the Hollywood Hills, had millions in the bank but worked as a stylist because she said she didn't want to be a boring Hollywood kid with nothing to do, she liked doing hair.Nice to be able to pick and chose  to work or not.

She got all the fortune without the trouble of the fame.
I also helped a Hungarian gay women get a job in our salon, so again back to the LGBT Hungarian connection...Seems wherever I go, I always run into a Hungarian or two.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Ha! Really? Where do you get your information?  If the foreign media was caught spinning a pack of lies then they'd soon be caught out and discredited.  That's why no-one believes Fox News or Breitbart.

Maybe you don't get the real message which was that the foreign media is likely to be more objective as it's not state controlled and more verified - proper journalism.  What is reported these days in Hungary is sometimes conjecture, speculation and short on facts. 

The main issue as I see it is that many people in Hungary are not able to easily access independent opinion through an independent media.

Haha, really.
Here CNN manufactured a demonstation:
http://pestisracok.hu/lebukott-az-alhir … tek-video/

The main problem of foreigners and immigrants that they think they are better than locals. It simply does not occur in the mind of liberal that (s)he might be wrong.

You are the one who blindly believes leftist propaganda, not me. I am a right wing voter, and read index daily.

Breitbart is ultimate truth, compared to BBC or CNN:

Rawlee wrote:

.....

The main problem of foreigners and immigrants that they think they are better than locals. It simply does not occur in the mind of liberal that (s)he might be wrong.

You are the one who blindly believes leftist propaganda, not me. I am a right wing voter, and read index daily....

Blindly?

Have you actually ever been to Africa? Asia? Or even Syria?  Any third world country? Post-conflict country?

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Makes me think of Jimmy Savile, he died before his horrors came to light.
....
I also had David Carradine come in and order 2 dry meat patties for his dog at the same working place. He was very odd even for a movie star. He was doing that Kung Fu TV show at the time he came in.
He looked like a bum, he was obviously stoned out of his mind or just had normal blood shot eyes and a strange glassy eyed over look to his face while driving a baby blue old open topped American car.
....

Jimmy Saville was creepy anyway.  And the British government was in collusion with him. 

Allegations are now appearing against George Bush Senior! 

Shame about David Carradine - ended his days in a wardrobe in Bangkok.

Yes, too bad about David but believe me, he seemed very, very odd when he came into where i worked, a good couple of decades before he died.
Worked there around 1974-75.
Takes a certain sort of person anyways to seek fame and quick money.
Maybe he was just trying hard to blend in like a "normal" everyday person when he drove in.
With his distinctive  looks, he wasn't fooling anyone.
I used to be a liberal but lately not so much so, more like a sea saw, one way then the other depending on the topic.
I have super right wing friends in the US and some that are so liberal I think they have really lost their minds.My liberal friends are either collecting benefits for a physical disability or teaching in a college or have had family on the staff of a college. My working class friends are not liberal at all.
I also know people collecting disability in the US who are very much against helping refugees and are very pro gun, I mean they take photos with their guns even!
Not sure what I would label myself these days.
I do not vote, can't vote here in Hungary and not living in the US and not having to live with any bad results of my vote.
No matter, I have a bad feeling our votes do not count for much anyways. They just want you to think they do. It's already in the bag.
My husband voted here once and I think he is always pro Hungary as it should be for him.
Not sure exactly what they would entail but always for the common man is the best way to vote.
We I think tend to not fully understand how much the average family in Hungary has seriously suffered in these last few generations and coming in with my vote would not be fair to me.
I know my one grandfather was  not on speaking terms with my father, my grandfather was a very stern man, and wrote monthly to a column to Pravda in Russia...Sort of different not like most other American grandfathers who like to toss a ball around with the kiddies.
He however did put his money where he mouth was, he came over to eastern Europe around 1917 and was active with politics and fighting. Not sure what he was doing exactly, a big family secret of sorts...
He was born in the US so I suppose he couldn't be tossed out for his political views.
Just wasting time here waiting for my evening MRI, already sort of tired from the time change and the rain. Super windy outside on my walk to the market today.

Where is this landmark located?

Rawlee wrote:

You are the one who blindly believes leftist propaganda, not me. I am a right wing voter, and read index daily.

Breitbart is ultimate truth, compared to BBC or CNN:

Again. Ironic.

Whenever someone says their version of a story is the "ultimate truth", they are in fact promoting propaganda.

For example, which is the "truth": a glass is half full or half empty? Both "full" and "empty" may be the "ultimate truth" to different people. Each unwilling to admit the other's world view is anything but despicable. Wars have been started on just as flimsy divergence of "truths" by different groups. How silly that all is.

What really mattes among human affairs should be objective facts. In the example above, the fact is that "half" of the glass has something in it. Which "half" it is are not truths, just opinions. Everyone has a right to have a divergent opinion, as long as we all acknowledge them as opinions. In fact, all opinions must be based, ultimately, upon some objective fact, else and absent that they are at best gross ignorance and at worst delusions.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....Super windy outside on my walk to the market today.

I am pretty sure I saw a min-tornado in my garden!   A lot of stuff has been blasted around so there will be cleaning up tomorrow when the issue has ...err....blown over...

animsaj wrote:

Where is this landmark located?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fIre … snimka.jpg

Don't know exactly but it looks like it's possibly at the Budapest Castle District judging by the difference in height between the foreground and background. 

This type of thing is probably a "szentháromság szobor" which means Holy Trinity Column and would be near a church and in a square.   

If you Google that you might be able to locate it.  Bear in mind it might be in Slovakia or another ex-Hungarian place.

Up at Budai Var.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Rawlee wrote:

.....

The main problem of foreigners and immigrants that they think they are better than locals. It simply does not occur in the mind of liberal that (s)he might be wrong.

You are the one who blindly believes leftist propaganda, not me. I am a right wing voter, and read index daily....

Blindly?

Have you actually ever been to Africa? Asia? Or even Syria?  Any third world country? Post-conflict country?

Here, an other lie:

2017.4.27
There are no no-go zones in Sweden
https://www.euractiv.com/section/langua … -in-malmo/

2017.3.31
No-go zones across Sweden, told by our government
https://www.hirado.hu/2017/03/31/meneku … -zonakbol/

2017.10.20
Swedish politicans propose deploying army to no-go zone.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/10 … -go-zones/http://www.stockholmdirekt.se/nyheter/m … FMsOCgNnA/

Strangely, this goes unreported in liberal media.

Rawlee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Rawlee wrote:

.....

The main problem of foreigners and immigrants that they think they are better than locals. It simply does not occur in the mind of liberal that (s)he might be wrong.

You are the one who blindly believes leftist propaganda, not me. I am a right wing voter, and read index daily....

Blindly?

Have you actually ever been to Africa? Asia? Or even Syria?  Any third world country? Post-conflict country?

Any chance of actually answering my question to you?

What is your real like experience? Been in impoverished sub-saharan Africa? Or even North Africa?  What about Asia - say Bangladesh or Burma? Or how about Syria? Been there?  Kosovo? 

My expectation is obviously that you have not.  On the other hand I have so I know what it's like in these places and I know what their governments are like too.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Any chance of actually answering my question to you?

What is your real like experience? Been in impoverished sub-saharan Africa? Or even North Africa?  What about Asia - say Bangladesh or Burma? Or how about Syria? Been there?  Kosovo? 

My expectation is obviously that you have not.  On the other hand I have so I know what it's like in these places and I know what their governments are like too.

And you point is? Immigrants are always right, because they have been to other places? Seen other cultures? Or that I should be welcoming to everybody, because reasons?

I have been to Tunisia. My parents have been to Egypt. They told me that was the last time they went outside of Europe. When a tourist bus has to be escorted by military vehicles if they dont want to be kidnapped or killed en route to Luxor, that tells me I have no place there, and they should have no place here.

Rawlee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Any chance of actually answering my question to you?

What is your real like experience? Been in impoverished sub-saharan Africa? Or even North Africa?  What about Asia - say Bangladesh or Burma? Or how about Syria? Been there?  Kosovo? 

My expectation is obviously that you have not.  On the other hand I have so I know what it's like in these places and I know what their governments are like too.

And you point is? Immigrants are always right, because they have been to other places? Seen other cultures? Or that I should be welcoming to everybody, because reasons?

I have been to Tunisia. My parents have been to Egypt. They told me that was the last time they went outside of Europe. When a tourist bus has to be escorted by military vehicles if they dont want to be kidnapped or killed en route to Luxor, that tells me I have no place there, and they should have no place here.

Thought so.  Indirect experience, presumably as a tourist with limited interaction with local people.

The points are rather obvious. These policies and views are formed from people who have no idea of the challenges and difficulties faced by people in these impoverished regions. 

One has not seen in your face poverty until one has been in sub-saharan Africa or Bangladesh or even the Philippines.  In these places there's also oppression and corruption on a level that has to be experienced to be believed.  Who can blame these people for wanting to have a better life?  It's not just about economics - getting money - it's multi-faceted - religious, politics, LGBTI etc.   Not  saying any country should welcome all comers but compassion for fellow human beings is necessary.

Syria is another matter - this is an active war zone. Before the war, it was a middle income country and for those who supported the regime, life was pretty good.  Many Syrians are well travelled, highly educated and secular.   Same for many Kosovans. Hungary has a refugee care obligation under the 1951 UN  Convention (on Refugees).

Just a few weeks ago we had the 1956 Hungarian revolution anniversary.   Lucky that refugees from Hungary then managed to make it out of here and were provided assistance.  Glass houses and stones etc.

I have traveled somewhat in the world: Hungary, Austria, Italy, Croatia, Slovenia, Turkey, Germany, Slovakia, Belgium, France, Spain, Netherlands, GB, Ireland, USA, Canada, South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Mainland China. I have spent long periods of time in Hungary, France and South Korea. I can say that based on my experiences, countries with homogenous populations, and less social stratification, i.e. South Korea, are safer and have a better quality of life and are nicer to visit for tourists. The principal concern of the Hungarian government should be increasing the quality of life for the Hungarian people. Bonafide refugees can be helped near their country of origin financially and with support services. After their homeland is secure they can return home and help rebuild their country. Illegal migrants who are not refugees should be returned as soon as possible to their country of origin. they should not be allowed to wander around and cause problems, i.e. sleeping in parks, urinating in historic fountains, accosting tourists with aggressive panhandling, etc. Hungary was never a colonial power and has no obligations to former colonial subjects or GB, France, etc.My father was in fact a bonafide refugee, after having fought in 1956 and was sponsored to come to the USA after he could no longer return to Hungary from DP camps in Austria and Germany.  What has been happening in Europe is a largely an illegal migration or economic migrants, not a refugee situation.

Chikagoan wrote:

.... What has been happening in Europe is a largely an illegal migration or economic migrants, not a refugee situation.

That's one of the problems - the politicians deliberately mixing up economic migrants with refugees.   They do that quite obviously for their own ends.  Here, there's a blurring of the lines (and in reality too) in determining who is fleeing persecution and danger and those who just want work.  It's a fairly well rehearsed technique - dehumanise to create a focus for all that is wrong. Yup, scapegoats.  Happened in the 1930s and we all know where that ended up.   It's not a simple matter at all.

The Hungarian military  does participate in peace keeping missions - they were in Afghanistan and they were also in Kosovo (as were the British, US, Norwegians etc).   They participate as part of the NATO obligation.  They obviously think that's worthwhile but the spirit of the UN convention is not worth adhering to.

I should point out the UK has no obligations to its former colonies.  Most of them become independent a long time ago - 40-50-60 years or more. Way in the past compared to the age of the economic migrants.  Any obligation to colonies has long since evaporated.   Not to say the UK does not provide free aid to assist - it does.  And billions of £s too.

Very good points. Very true regarding Britain and other former colonies as well. There is no reason why people who are absolutely not refugees are allowed to wander around Europe and basically trash public spaces, i.e. Calais. It is dangerous and destructive for the native population and really degrades their quality of life.

Chikagoan wrote:

Very good points. Very true regarding Britain and other former colonies as well. There is no reason why people who are absolutely not refugees are allowed to wander around Europe and basically trash public spaces, i.e. Calais. It is dangerous and destructive for the native population and really degrades their quality of life.

As someone who passes through Calais sometimes 2 or 3 times a year, it's quite true there are mostly men there but conditions were or are quite intolerable at "The Jungle". But it's totally the French authorities fault.  Even in Dunkirk, just up the coast, there are migrants living in derelict buildings or tent encampments on the old docks.     They need to be provided with a basic level of maintenance and healthcare otherwise they'd be a public health risk or otherwise to the rest of the population.  So, my point is that while they are being assessed on their status they still need to be maintained.  But to deny them even basic care would be inhumane.   

In any population there are elements which would degrade public spaces.  But not helping them and moving them on, only moves them to another part of the city.  Case in point, I noticed that the tent camp in the woods next to the Budapest airport road near the Terminal Shopping Mall no longer seems to be there but hard to tell with the leaves still on the trees.  But now I've seen a new tent city appearing. It's just between  Lágymányosi  and South Rail (Összekötő vasúti) bridges at the Western end.  Note: It'll always be Lágymányosi to me, despite it now being officially called Rákóczi bridge.

The British attitude to citizenship was always a bit strange.  People sometimes had a choice on nationality upon independence.  Until that time, everyone in the colonies was British, with a full right to come to the UK.  I should say Canada was not a colony but a Dominion.  Over the years, various incarnations of the nationality laws occurred which created some citizenship anomalies - British Overseas Citizens, British Subjects etc.  BOCs were part of the Hong Kong handover if I remember correctly. People born in some current UK dependent territories places like St Helena, Falklands etc, are also fully British with UK residence rights.  Commonwealth citizens can also serve in the British Army too.

I think one of the problems with any current European immigration debate is that there are presumptions made that do not have to be sustained. It's like treating the symptom but offering no cure. Giving Aspirin to a brain cancer patient with a headache...

There should be no presumption of a status, nor inherent right simply by virtue of being on one side of a line versus another (borders).  And there is not an apples to apples comparison when one speaks of intrinsic European emigration / immigration versus a completely different culture and religion.  A Polish plumber in London is not the equivalent of a Sudanese radical in Belgium.

Nut the point has been made the the large majority of this debate is between true refugees and economic migrants. Much of the 2 billion people on the planet living in poverty would love to attach themselves to a European social security system that by law cannot disgorge these same people back to unsafe conditions.

Rather than name people who have severe reservations about the ability of cultures to absorb a large influx of largely male opportunists and calling those same people xenophobic or uneducated about the source country misses the point.  There are a number of foreign nationals who would like to some to Europe, illegally if they have to, taking advantage of European generosity and laws if they can, but the situation is simply unsustainable.  It is also NOT what the majority of people pay taxes for -- the good of the country. I do not pay taxes to benefit Syrian, Sudanese, or Pakistani migrants of any religion. I pay them for the benefit of my children, and my fellow countrymen first. And if there is some largesse left over, I am happy to help others in their own countries or in safe havens that do not have to be on European soil. To suggest that migrants must come to European lands for European help would mean that Europe could not assist in countries not within reasonable distances, and yet I would like to help many people in Southeast Asia, and Central and South America. I just don't need the entire continents to walk to my buildings in order to try to help them.

So my half full, half empty glass sees a compromise where I can help without having to coddle everyone who knocks on my door.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Thought so.  Indirect experience, presumably as a tourist with limited interaction with local people.

The points are rather obvious. These policies and views are formed from people who have no idea of the challenges and difficulties faced by people in these impoverished regions. 

One has not seen in your face poverty until one has been in sub-saharan Africa or Bangladesh or even the Philippines.  In these places there's also oppression and corruption on a level that has to be experienced to be believed.  Who can blame these people for wanting to have a better life?  It's not just about economics - getting money - it's multi-faceted - religious, politics, LGBTI etc.   Not  saying any country should welcome all comers but compassion for fellow human beings is necessary.

Syria is another matter - this is an active war zone. Before the war, it was a middle income country and for those who supported the regime, life was pretty good.  Many Syrians are well travelled, highly educated and secular.   Same for many Kosovans. Hungary has a refugee care obligation under the 1951 UN  Convention (on Refugees).

Just a few weeks ago we had the 1956 Hungarian revolution anniversary.   Lucky that refugees from Hungary then managed to make it out of here and were provided assistance.  Glass houses and stones etc.

I thought so too. These people need condoms, not food. Poverty accross the world is not caused by us, but by food aid. These people get free stuff (hence have no understanding that someone HAS to work for those too) and then only breed, and then beg for more. Example: Mugabe's Zimbabwe.
https://diasporabrazil.org/uploads/imag … 210090.png
I refuse to have sympathy for these savages.

We were reduced to ruins 2 times in the past 100 years. And we received no aid during rebuilding. In fact we were held at gunpoint to give reparations. Yes, Hungary has refugee obligations. Except 99% of the people turning up on our borders are not refugees.

I see now that you one of those special type of people who cant grasp the concept  of "different opinion". Hungarians dont want anybody here, end of story. The FACT that we dont have mass rapes, acid attacks, child prostitution rings, sharia law are proof that WE ARE RIGHT. You can go back home and be generous, here WE decide what will be done. Like we welcomed you here, despite your ancestors deciding this place is not good for them. I guess you lowered their standards? Or, just maybe, this is place is good as we run it, in which case maybe you should stop trying to change it?

Final thought - the hungarian government, and the hungarian people have only obligations towards other hungarians, and the people already inside the borders. We showed solidarity to serbian/croatian REFUGEES, when they fled the Yugoslav wars, or ukrainan REFUGEES, who fled the war in Ukraine. We have no obligation to take care of billions of people from places across the globe.

By the way:
http://www.unhcr.org/4ca34be29.pdf

Every refugee has duties to the country in which he finds himself, which require in particular that he conform to its laws and regulations as well as to measures taken for the maintenance of public order.

So the refugee must follow local laws. Dublin regulations say:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation

Usually, the responsible Member State will be the state through which the asylum seeker first entered the EU.

Anybody, who left Greece/Italy have broken EU (local) law, hence are no longer refugee. So really, anything we do here, is just turning back ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Frankly, as a 'new' Hungarian citizen, I do not want to see Hungary go the way of parts of Western Europe have gone in the last 50 years; filled with large foreign populations that do not assimilate, are dependent on public aid, have higher crime rates, may harbor terrorists, and most importantly, are not desired by the native people of the host country.
Hungary is Hungarian. That is why I love it.

fluffy2560 wrote:

animsaj wrote:

Where is this landmark located?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fIre … snimka.jpg

Don't know exactly but it looks like it's possibly at the Budapest Castle District judging by the difference in height between the foreground and background. 

This type of thing is probably a "szentháromság szobor" which means Holy Trinity Column and would be near a church and in a square.   

If you Google that you might be able to locate it.  Bear in mind it might be in Slovakia or another ex-Hungarian place.

Thanks for the reply!
The photo is certainly from Hungary - from Budapest or near Balaton.
Unfortunately, I think it's not Holy Trinity Column.

Very good points. Hungary is not yet a truly wealthy country, and many Hungarians still live in relative poverty. Rather than help able bodied, illegal, economic migrants from Africa or South Asia, the government and EU should help impovershed, elderly Hungarians and Europeans.

I ain't touching this refugee subject with a 10 foot pole.
Way over my head politically etc. as to why it seems they, those in power seemed to want to destroy western civilisation with bringing in hoards of people who seem to think their way of life is better then those who have lived , died, suffered to build up a certain country or two....
I also grew up in S. Cal. and had many Mexican friends over the years, not everyone was a illegal who was Mexican, in fact those who were legal were even more concerned because their way of life was being threatened by non tax paying under the table workers.
Gosh, once we were moving and in the US it is common for Mexican and other illegals to do day work for a set price, they openly hang out in front of stores in the parking lots.
We were not going to hire help for our move( wish we did, so sore afterwards) but just to find out how much they charge we stopped and asked a group of illegal or at least they were working illegally in the US tax free for cash.
I couldn't believe how much they wanted each per hour, a $10. an hour and this was over 10 years back!
Dang, they make more money then many legal workers do who pay taxes.

My husband was a "refugee" in 1971 from Hungary.
He however knew what to expect, nothing really.
He entered with another man into Italy and walked up to the first police man he saw and let him know he was ready for jail.
They were very nice, just a formality to put him in jail for the night , left the door open.
Next day was placed in a camp for 8 months.
Was given a full background check by Interpol and the US gov. before being allowed into the US.
He was in demand because of his work skills, He was a fully trained machinist, all those years of going to super hard Hungarian schools was a bonus.
They at the camps also brought in reps from several countries to show films etc. to let these young Hungarians see how life was in their countries before having them go there.
He said he was treated very fairly in Italy and in all the refugee centers, spent some time ( long story about a broken arm) In Sweden in a refugee center in Malmo then went on to France. In all spent 2 years in western Europe before deciding on coming to the US.
Of course when he was a refugee there was perhaps only hundreds of refugees in these camps, not thousands of them like now.
He was given a airline ticket which the IRC paid for and given a hotel room  in a run down rat invested hotel in NYC, they paid for only 2 weeks and gave him a list of places to go to find a job.
Many of the Hungarians we still know respect my husband and call him "uncle Laci" because he like many others helped his fellow HUngarians in NY and later in Ca. He taught at least a dozen of them how to drive plus when their 2 weeks time on their hotel rooms ran out and they had not found a job, he moved people into his tiny room and fed them.
He was just a few years older then some and they had quit school when they came to the US and had no real job skills.
He supported them until something else came up for them.
Even some of the young HU girls told me what a gent he was even giving them his bed or letting them sleep in the bed without being more then a big bro to them.
Not at all like what we hear now with some refugees who want free everything for nothing and also want to be in charge and make changes.
All these Hungarian my husband helped over the years finally found their footing and most have done very well for themselves in the US.
It blows my husbands mind now to see how many of these refugees are acting, he tried to blend in to his new surroundings ,not try to make trouble and change things .
Just like the American/ Mexicans I knew as a child, these old time refugees are so embarrassed by these new refugees who make everyone look so bad by their bad behavior.
My husband was only 23 and had been spoiled in Hungary by his mom, he always had spending money in HU. In the US he had to learn that if he blew his money before payday, then he didn't eat for a few days. Didn't blame anyone but himself and never asked for help.
Here and there a few were into criminal  activity and a few were deported but over all almost all of them worked very hard, mixed with American society and have become US citizens on their own merit.
Hungarians should be proud of those they never brought shame on Hungary.
I watch the news from Sweden and German as well and it doesn't look too good there, not even interested in traveling to western Europe let alone going to the middle east for a holiday.
Things are crazy out there and I don't see it getting better anytime soon.
One of my friends in high school was a baby of 2 years old in 1956 when her parents took her and left Budapest. They were very much a "normal" American family, except my friend would not speak Hungarian in front of her friend s to her mom. Her mom was forever trying to feed us all too.
Noticed they will end the Netflix show, "House of Cards" after season 6. Allegations against Kevin Spacey is one reason given.
Hollywood is going down like a real house of cards... I liked that show very smart story lines.Too bad.

animsaj wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

animsaj wrote:

Where is this landmark located?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fIre … snimka.jpg

Don't know exactly but it looks like it's possibly at the Budapest Castle District judging by the difference in height between the foreground and background. 

This type of thing is probably a "szentháromság szobor" which means Holy Trinity Column and would be near a church and in a square.   

If you Google that you might be able to locate it.  Bear in mind it might be in Slovakia or another ex-Hungarian place.

Thanks for the reply!
The photo is certainly from Hungary - from Budapest or near Balaton.
Unfortunately, I think it's not Holy Trinity Column.

Things are quite different around that castle area with redevelopment going on - check it out on  Google Maps. 

Here's my thinking:

There's no guarantee that the building behind the statue are still there or look exactly the same.   They may even have moved the column.  If it was a Holy Trinity Column, it would not go far from the church. 

At first I thought it was the Castle District, then I was thinking somewhere around the Parliament. The biggest issue in locating this for me is the difference in height between the foreground and the background.  There are many buildings of that type in Hungary with columns and rounded windows but the height difference is an issue.  The double column on the right is also different.   

The picture seems to date from the 1970s judging by the clothing and the printing give the impression it was in a newspaper.  Any further clues?  Caption on the newspaper?

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....
Noticed they will end the Netflix show, "House of Cards" after season 6. Allegations against Kevin Spacey is one reason given.
Hollywood is going down like a real house of cards... I liked that show very smart story lines.Too bad.

Anthony Rapp is in Star Trek Discovery and he plays a gay character - first ever in a Star Trek show.  He's gay I believe in real life too.  Reminds me of the time Kirk kissed Uhuru - ground breaking at the time but laughable these days to think anyone actually cared back then.   

Kevin Spacey is a great actor and HoC is a great show.  Seems to me that he's not been tried on evidence other than what Anthony Rapp said. There are no criminal charges but he's already been convicted in the court of public opinion.

First gay man in Star Trek was Lt. Sulu (George Takei).  He's been together in real life with his partner since 1987, married in 2008.

In Star Trek Beyond, the latest film in the reboot, they made Sulu gay, portrayed by John Cho.  He has a very short scene in the movie where he is reunited with his husband, another Asian man, and their daughter.  A kiss between the 2 men was cut from the movie.  An interesting thing about this scene was that it was shot in Dubai.  They could not find an Asian actor willing to portray a gay character, so the director of the movie, Justin Lin, had to play that man!

The distinction seems to be it's the first in the TV Series.

I wholeheartedly agree that people are blowing the Kevin Spacey thing out of proportion. By both of their own admissions, Spacey may have made a gay teenager feel uncomfortable, but he hardly violated him in any way.  Plus it was 30 years ago!  Surely the "trauma" of going to an all-star Broadway event and being carried from a bedroom to a sofa (or something like that) must have worn off by day three, honestly. I've been treated worse by distant aunts and uncles I had to kiss during family reunions and holiday gatherings!

I also don't understand the minor backlash about Spacey coming out as gay. So many judgmental people!  Let the man make his own decision how he lives his life, as I am certainly sure those in "accusatory feigned horror mode" would want people to respect their own decisions.  And let's not forget that there was a generation of societal and civil change between those who paved the way to normalize gays in society and those who lived in that more welcoming, more accepting society.  It always gets under my skin when I see people who have had all the advantages of the gains that so many have fought and even died for take those same gains for granted without respecting those who won them, and "retro-judge" through this new lens of their own experience without understanding the previous generations.  This is not something limited to gays; Asian Americans, Blacks, Women, you name the group, I guarantee there is a standard through which people perceive past actions without understanding historical and cultural context.  (Stepping off my soap box now.)

Rawlee wrote:

....I thought so too. These people need condoms, not food. Poverty accross the world is not caused by us, but by food aid. These people get free stuff (hence have no understanding that someone HAS to work for those too) and then only breed, and then beg for more. Example: Mugabe's Zimbabwe.
https://diasporabrazil.org/uploads/imag … 210090.png
I refuse to have sympathy for these savages.

Savages? Really?  We should have a rational debate, not hype and hysteria.

Poverty is not caused by food aid. It's just not that simple. It's caused by multiple reasons. Generally, I would cite corruption and self-interest as a place to start.

In Mugabe's case, his rhetoric is based upon identifying a group to demonise (white settlers or colonial power) in order to further his own agenda/power.  Seeing any parallels? 

Rawlee wrote:

We were reduced to ruins 2 times in the past 100 years. And we received no aid during rebuilding. In fact we were held at gunpoint to give reparations. Yes, Hungary has refugee obligations. Except 99% of the people turning up on our borders are not refugees.

Hungary has a ongoing habit of backing the wrong side - check your history.   Might even be doing it again in alignment with Russia.

In fact, Hungary does receive aid and has done for many years, including post 1990 in the change of system. Hungary, as of 2016, was in net receipt of EUR 4 billion from EU funds (across the sector it's the 6th largest recipient).  It's still aid even if it's direct budget support.

Rawlee wrote:

I see now that you one of those special type of people who cant grasp the concept  of "different opinion". Hungarians dont want anybody here, end of story. The FACT that we dont have mass rapes, acid attacks, child prostitution rings, sharia law are proof that WE ARE RIGHT. You can go back home and be generous, here WE decide what will be done. Like we welcomed you here, despite your ancestors deciding this place is not good for them. I guess you lowered their standards? Or, just maybe, this is place is good as we run it, in which case maybe you should stop trying to change it?

I'm quite willing to engage on differing opinions. Not sure why you think my ancestors decided it was not good for them in Hungary.  My ancestors are supposedly Germans and Irish.

Unfortunately migration is a fact of life here in Hungary and everywhere else.  It's been going on forever.  I've got a book from the 1990s which shows different ethnic groups in Hungary.  The Schwabians are one well known group but there are even people here who declare themselves as Bosnians or even Egyptians.  The Roma supposedly came from India.

No-one is trying to introduce Sharia law anywhere in Europe. It's incompatible with the Human Rights laws so that ain't gonna happen.  It's hyped up by people to serve an agenda.

The other crimes are just that - crimes.  There's plenty of crimes here anyway, not just caused by migrants.  And in any case, those very large  crimes you quote are not happening every day anywhere in the EU.

Rawlee wrote:

...Final thought - the hungarian government, and the hungarian people have only obligations towards other hungarians, and the people already inside the borders. We showed solidarity to serbian/croatian REFUGEES, when they fled the Yugoslav wars, or ukrainan REFUGEES, who fled the war in Ukraine. We have no obligation to take care of billions of people from places across the globe.

I would disagree that Hungary has no obligations other than locally.  No-one has asked Hungary to take care of the world but Hungary, supposedly part of the democratic world, has an obligation to provide a proportional amount of support. 

The EU has suggested quotas for refugees and this is now been settled via the European Court of Justice of the EU (CJEU).  As part of Hungary's membership of the EU, it signed up to the ECJ.   If Hungary doesn't like this, it can always have yet another referendum and vote to leave the EU.  I would suggest Hungary doesn't want to do that as a net recipient of EU funds.

Rawlee wrote:

By the way:
http://www.unhcr.org/4ca34be29.pdf
.....Every refugee has duties to the country in which he finds himself, which require in particular that he conform to its laws and regulations as well as to measures taken for the maintenance of public order.........

So the refugee must follow local laws. Dublin regulations say:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation
.....Usually, the responsible Member State will be the state through which the asylum seeker first entered the EU.....

Anybody, who left Greece/Italy have broken EU (local) law, hence are no longer refugee. So really, anything we do here, is just turning back ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Kind of ironic to quote the EU regulations and laws while complaining about the obligations on Hungary therein. But I'm glad you took the time to look at the UNHCR web site. 

But one should not try cherry pick a self-serving justification. It's best to read it all to see what the overall obligations are as they have to be seen as a whole other wise it's a-la-carte and locally politically driven.  One of the things the UN convention says is that refugees must not be treated less well than nationals.   

So it's not so black and white.  People are desperate and will do desperate things.  If someone steals bread because they are hungry what punishment would that deserve?  One of the indicators of a developed nation is proportional justice (I can give you a bigger list if you want).  Forcing people into destitution and starvation outside a fence is not an indicator of developed status.   

While I'm no fan of European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, I can agree with what he said recently (specifically about Hungary's government):

“Solidarity is a two-way street. There are times in which member states may expect to receive support, and times in which they, in turn, should stand ready to contribute,” .....
....
“And solidarity is not an à-la-carte dish; one that can be chosen for border management, and rejected when it comes to complying with relocation decisions that have been jointly agreed.”

I think just about everyone has experienced a kiss or two from a "creepy uncle" as a kid.
I lived for 6 months with a gay friend in Ca. when I was 17.
Never felt anything other then him being super kind and taking me under his wing.
2 unlikely room mates.
I did once come home from a night out to find he had some company. I just closed the front door and went to another friends house for the night to sleep on her couch. No biggie.
Funny story, sort of.
in July 2013 I finally went to Poland to meet up with long lost family for a reunion.
I was a bit surprised to find my cousin was a gay man who owned the B&B where my husband and I stayed with a couple of other cousins from the US.
I was surprised that in that small village that he was open and had a thriving business. Times do change.
We also attended a house party the last night we were in Poland, had about 14 relations at the house, home made honey vodka too.
In HU it is the custom to kiss a person once on each cheek.
In Poland it is a 3 cheek deal.
Ok, arrived at the house of one cousins who was holding the party.
We stood in line to be introduced to a few older relations who had not been at another gathering we had.
3 kisses each person and a hug.
It was my Hungarian husbands turn to meet one of my older male relations he must of been in his early 80's.
They kissed once on each cheek , as they were exchanging kisses a Polish relation told then older man in Polish that my husband was from Hungary.
He got so excited that after the first 2 kisses, he grabbed my husband by his shoulders and planted a big fat one on his mouth!
We all laughed and said, Wow he must really like Hungarians"! My husband looked very embarrassed, made us laugh even more. We just blamed it on the vodka!!
There was also a couple from the UK, two gay men who one of my cousins was helping out to find some land in the area.
I had a blast talking with the two of them all night long, so many funny tales.

No one was upset about all these gay men in the village, no big deal, not sure why Hollywood is freaking out now.

Vicces1 wrote:

First gay man in Star Trek was Lt. Sulu (George Takei).  He's been together in real life with his partner since 1987, married in 2008.

In Star Trek Beyond, the latest film in the reboot, they made Sulu gay, portrayed by John Cho.  He has a very short scene in the movie where he is reunited with his husband, another Asian man, and their daughter.  A kiss between the 2 men was cut from the movie.  An interesting thing about this scene was that it was shot in Dubai.  They could not find an Asian actor willing to portray a gay character, so the director of the movie, Justin Lin, had to play that man!

The distinction seems to be it's the first in the TV Series.

....

Yes, absolutely, I forgot about Mr Sulu, but he wasn't gay in the actual show even though he's clearly become an icon since then. 

Great background trivia on the ST franchise there as well.

In ST Discovery, Anthony Rapp's character is "actively" gay with his partner being shown (I think he was killed during a Klingon attack on a Federation ship around episode 3 or 4).  He might have  another condition as well as he's strangely "robotic", even less human than Spock. 

I hesitate to label him with a condition but it might be an interpretation of Asperger's or some other thing sci-fi like genetic engineering.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....

No one was upset about all these gay men in the village, no big deal, not sure why Hollywood is freaking out now.

Wow, another story for your book Marilyn.

You might find this YouTube video amusing:

Little Britain - Only Gay In The Village

It's from a TV comedy show - Little Britain.  Ground breaking at the time.

fluffy2560 wrote:

In ST Discovery, Anthony Rapp's character is "actively" gay with his partner being shown (I think he was killed during a Klingon attack on a Federation ship around episode 3 or 4).  He might have  another condition as well as he's strangely "robotic", even less human than Spock. 

I hesitate to label him with a condition but it might be an interpretation of Asperger's or some other thing sci-fi like genetic engineering.

Yes, it's very common in TV Shows to say they have a gay character, then neuter him as quickly as possible to as not to "offend" people with actual sights of homosexual actions (kissing, holding hands, etc. -- I'm not even going to suggest 2 men in bed, and JUST lying in bed!).

From Billy Crystal's first portrayal of a gay man (in Soap) to Will and Grace, where they completely neuter the leading man to ensure no one confronts the sight of male romantics, to evidently this new TV Series where they kill off the gay and then leave the one "robotic", we are moving all too slowly in normalizing relationships.

Personally, I say bring back the days of All in the Family and the original Star Trek where these social issues were tackled head-on in a respectful manner.  You remember ST TOS when they had the 2 white/black-halved faced aliens on-board trying to kill one another, because one was black on the left side, one on the right side?  Social commentary at its best, Meathead!!

fluffy2560 wrote:

You might find this YouTube video amusing:

Little Britain - Only Gay In The Village

It's from a TV comedy show - Little Britain.  Ground breaking at the time.

Just watched this -- OMG HILARIOUS!!  I'm still laughing!
Thank you for sharing!  Now I'm likely to go down a rabbit hole of YouTube videos...

fluffy2560 wrote:

In fact, Hungary does receive aid and has done for many years, including post 1990 in the change of system. Hungary, as of 2016, was in net receipt of EUR 4 billion from EU funds (across the sector it's the 6th largest recipient).  It's still aid even if it's direct budget support.

If that is your understanding of this transnational contract, then it is useless to discuss with you anything, as your understanding of the world is limited to pink textbook ideas.

Rawlee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

In fact, Hungary does receive aid and has done for many years, including post 1990 in the change of system. Hungary, as of 2016, was in net receipt of EUR 4 billion from EU funds (across the sector it's the 6th largest recipient).  It's still aid even if it's direct budget support.

If that is your understanding of this transnational contract, then it is useless to discuss with you anything, as your understanding of the world is limited to pink textbook ideas.

I think you are referring to the EU treaty that led to Hungary's accession to the EU.  But, notwithstanding signing up to it and all that comes with it, I was quoting a statistic on net contributions as published in EU data.   Of course, everyone knows there are lies, damned lies and statistics but the numbers don't actually lie.

Some final thoughts to reflect upon with parallels to this ongoing conversation (maybe you'll get it):

Cool Hand Luke (the Warden):

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Forrest Gump:

"....When raccoons try to get on our back porch, Mama just chases 'em off with a broom."

Josey Wales:

To hell with them fellas. Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms.


BTW, I'm not an armchair commentator, it's many years of direct experience in foreign lands.

The EU does not give out "aid". The funds it gives to the member states' projects must be submitted to it as requests, should be financially sound, and goes through rigorous examination before approval. and after that, even more examinations, and they can even be demanded to be repaid.

Yet you think of it as aid. Hence your understanding of it is armchair commentator.

Yes we signed up to it. We also acted according to the letter of the Dublin Regulations.  The "refugee quotas" are not in the Lisbon Treaty. Nobody signed up to them. And the 1951 convention does not overrule national laws (as it is written in first damn line of the convention).

Also, you said the host country must treat refugees as it treats its citizens.
http://f21.hu/wp-content/uploads/2016/1 … ktalan.jpg
He is one of us. He doesnt get free food or housing in containers, unlike the "refugees"
http://mandiner.hu/attachment/0132/1319 … garnal.jpg
Hence they get better treatment. Now you should give up 1-2 rooms in your house for a few homeless, since you are so generous offering up our homes.

This is really pointless. You dont offer any kind of solid argument, only "principles".

Vicces1 wrote:

...Yes, it's very common in TV Shows to say they have a gay character, then neuter him as quickly as possible to as not to "offend" people with actual sights of homosexual actions (kissing, holding hands, etc. -- I'm not even going to suggest 2 men in bed, and JUST lying in bed!).... we are moving all too slowly in normalizing relationships.

Personally, I say bring back the days of All in the Family and the original Star Trek where these social issues were tackled head-on in a respectful manner.  You remember ST TOS when they had the 2 white/black-halved faced aliens on-board trying to kill one another, because one was black on the left side, one on the right side?  Social commentary at its best, Meathead!!

Now you say that, yes, I can see they do that in Hollywood - someone will always be offended.   Not quite the same in other countries as Little Britain illustrates.  Most UK soaps have gay characters and two men kissing is ordinary. 

BTW, Daffyd Thomas (Daffyd is David in Welsh) in Little Britain is played by Matt Lucas who is gay in real life.  The other guy is David Walliams (real name David Williams - Welsh name) who is straight. 

I remember that episode of ST TOS very well.  The actor - Frank Gorshin - who played one of the "Yin-Yang" aliens was the same guy who played The Fiddler in Batman.   

Batman, now that was so utterly camp - what was Batman doing shacked up with Robin in a creepy old house and dashing about in Spandex.

Rawlee wrote:

The EU does not give out "aid". The funds it gives to the member states' projects must be submitted to it as requests, should be financially sound, and goes through rigorous examination before approval. and after that, even more examinations, and they can even be demanded to be repaid.

Now you are really in difficult ground....

Yes, whatever the process of housekeeping, the EC does give out aid.  Note I said EC, not EU but people don't know the difference.

The EC and others made many grants to Hungary post-1990 at the change of system.  It did this to restructure the economy and ease the transition.   The same goes for other organisations. Countries "graduate" from being borrowers to lenders.  Countries that have graduated include Germany and South Korea.  These are generally in reconstruction.

These organisations make loans to countries at low preferential rates with long loan periods.  These are not on commercial terms.  This amounts effectively to a subsidy.  The closest analogy is being in a credit union.

You need to do some reading to understand the interrelations between these groups and their motivations.  This system has been in place since WW2.

I suggest you start with these:

EIB
EBRD
Bretton Woods Institutions

and others....like World Bank, OECD or IMF

fluffy2560 wrote:

BTW, Daffyd Thomas (Daffyd is David in Welsh) in Little Britain is played by Matt Lucas who is gay in real life.  The other guy is David Walliams (real name David Williams - Welsh name) who is straight. 

I remember that episode of ST TOS very well.  The actor - Frank Gorshin - who played one of the "Yin-Yang" aliens was the same guy who played The Fiddler in Batman.   

Batman, now that was so utterly camp - what was Batman doing shacked up with Robin in a creepy old house and dashing about in Spandex.

Wonderful trivia. I had no idea Matt Lucas was gay, although I've seen him in so many shows. Most recently, Dr. Who.  I do know of David Williams, seen him on the BBC many times. Knew he was straight.  That episode you linked was hilarious. And it had a gay guy in it urged by the bartender to get cock! No harm done it seems...

There have been rumours of course about Batman and Robin.... :-)