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Black Canadian interested to live in Thailand

Hi there,

I'm a Black Canadian and I'm interested to live in Thailand, to teach ESL. I am also fascinated with the digital nomad culture there.

I'm aware that in some parts of the world, discrimination/racism is experienced by those who are Black. I wanted to write to find out the experience (directly or indirectly) of Blacks who have lived there in terms of inclusion, friendliness of natives, safety and what are the areas where there is a presence of Blacks (it would be difficult to be in an area to be the only one)?

Any feedback would be helpful.

I see black people throughout thailand. ESL teachers x 4 black guys in little city I live in north east thailand. Do not see a lot cannot name any particular area where there are black persons but I see a few from time to time throughout thailand some with families who are mix thai/black.

@Traveller61

The way i read you message, it make me think you never being to Thailand, Is that correct ?

IF you never being here, Then come for a longer trip 2-4-6 month, Try living here.
Try stay away from the Tourist Area, live among the "normal Thai" and experience live here on you own body.


About the Racism !!

In Thailand it is White is pure, good, high class.

Where Black is the opposite, Bad, do crime, low class and so on.

Dark / black skin is look at a worker skin = Lower class.

A Thai school is proud to say to the Parent, See we have a white foreigner teaching you kids, And we therefor need ekstra money to keep him (her).

Where the school is not going to say, We have a black foreigner teaching you kids and ask for ekstra money, As the parent are not going to pay for that.

In Thai tv serie, The white skin is the heros, Where the Dark / Black skin are the evil / bad guys (girls).


Hard for me to write what i am trying to say in English, But hope you get the idea ?


Many time in bus or other transport i can hear Thai say, See Black drug dealer when we pass a Black person, Even so they clear don´t know that person.


I go to language school years back that have many Black people come all so.
And the 7-8 from Europa all stop and leave Thailand inside 1 year,  As it become to much for them.

I see police stop us when we going out to eat after school, Ask for paper, When we all start to find passport, Police say to me, You can go your white. I never have to show my paper here in Thailand.

Where my classmates (Black) all have to show paper, sometimes get take to police station even so the have all the correct paper.
School have to go to police station to get them out.
If this happened Friday after midday, Many time they didn't come out before Monday.

We go to restaurant together where the people there say, i can come in and eat, but my "staff" have to go to other place, or go to the back and sit outside and eat.
No point to write, We find other place to eat..Where we all was welcome to eat together.

Classmates from Afrika was okay about the way Thai look down on them, They told me this happen all over the world for them, So they learn to live with it.

At Immigration every 90 days for Extension, i got mine fast, But every time Immigration was not happy about the Black people, And try all kind of things.
Again, Many time the school have to send someone to help out.

Again, We all have the correct paper work, nothing was missing.
Only different was our skin color.


The Black / White thing is one of the few things i don´t like about Thailand and Thai.
And even so many Thai never say it out open, I never meet any Thai, That don´t think like that at some level.

My own father in law first time i meet him, Didn't understand why i want to date hes daughter (Now my Thai wife), As she is Brown skin as many Thai is. And i am white skin.

I was hard and long talk, Many talk, explaining that i dont care about color of skin, I dont think people are lower or high class, I see all as even.
I think it toke maybe 1 year before he trust what i told him.



This is from my own experiences, So others might be different.
I didn't write this to offend any, So hope all are okay by it, Only try to share what i experiences.

I'm shocked by the last post, everything is false.
Thai people don't care about black people, they say "farang" and if the person is correct and polite, they will appreciate it as any foreigner.

There are two wildly opposing views here.
Would other posters give their experiences, please?

Racism is very silly but is also a fact of life, so could be an important issue for potential expats.

I know 2 blacks people in Thailand.
One is english teacher in all the schools of the island.
The other one is a fat black american, a caricature, extremely kindness. His wife is young, nice, fresh. I really think she loves him because he's a good person.
Thai people don't judge by appearances.

Traveller61

I have been in Thailand full-time for just over 1 year now (on-and-off 12 years) and I could say racism exist. It is not blatant by very covert.  As a Canadian you have a slightly upper hand. Passports matter. Forget the smile to your face - it may be more of a smirk.

Thais, especially those that had not traveled or educated, are particularly so. Some language schools would tell you point blank but to save FACE a gentle smile and say we would see. Thais do not say things direct. Everything must look good. I understand Thai and told many bad (dumb, stupid and ugly are common) things in Thai then the say something different in English but never when my wife's around. Must appear nice is the Thai way. 

You may have read ajarn.com and other teaching sites but it exist. Blacks are tolerated. Having a USA Canadian or UK passport helps.  There are black teachers here but most are not by first choice and their hiring is usually because the insistence of other foreign teachers who look more at qualification - competence not color. Go to any major international school and look at the foreign teachers. Almost all white by school administration choice.

I am black and married to a Thai who lived outside of Thailand.  Came to Thailand. My Brother-in-law is a white Irish guy without a degree went to a language school and was offered a teaching spot almost immediately. He told me and two days later I went (with a FT top 50 MBA plus working in six countries in the oil industry) and told well we would call you back. Three times I have spoken to HR persons on the phone and said I was qualified but need to send a photo to complete the process. Never heard anything back after sending the photo. Walked into magazine (which published my writing) to discuss possible employment and writing projects and was told ,"you sound American on the phone." Never heard anything back.

My step-daughter attends a private school in Pattaya area which hired a teacher who had a USA passport. Turned out he was a dark skin Indian.  Despite students liking his approach and teaching was asked to leave after 3 months - no reason given.

Racism is rampant in Thailand but not overt. The treatment you get, personal experience , is one of disdain and bare tolerance.  I could you some more horror stories. Even my wife feels bad - "How Thai could behave so."  I am looking for a job outside Thailand and hoping the oil price go up.

Your passport helps. But beware that smile may be someone laughing AT you - not WITH you.

okimmel :

I'm shocked by the last post, everything is false.
Thai people don't care about black people, they say "farang" and if the person is correct and polite, they will appreciate it as any foreigner.

First i know what i see with my own eyes, You was not there, So stop the *** about false.
It is fine you dont agreed and have a other view, Post that, fine, Say everything is false, Show how not so smart you are.

I have room in my life for people can experience things in others way then me, i dont go around and say it false (lying)


Farang mean White foreigners, Go google it, because dont take my word for it.

Here is from Wikipedia, but you find same infomation all over.

Farang (Thai: ฝรั่ง  [faràŋ], colloquially [falàŋ]) is a generic Thai word for someone of European ancestry, no matter where they may come from. The Royal Institute Dictionary 1999, the official dictionary of Thai words, defines the word as "a person of white race".[1]

NO Thai person are going to say Farang alone to a Black foreigner, Never !!!
But Thai are going to say Farang-Dam.

Edmund Roberts, US envoy in 1833, defined the term as "Frank (or European)."[2] People of mixed sub-Saharan African-European descent were called farang dam (Thai: ฝรั่งดำ; 'black farang') to distinguish them from white people. This began during the Vietnam War, when the United States military maintained bases in Thailand. The practice continues in present-day Bangkok.[3]



Hope you learn something, But pretty sure you don´t.

Kindly.



Edit:
Try google "BLACKFACE AND RACISM IN THAILAND" and read about it, it is so common here in Thailand.

Yes, I confirm it's just false :)

Never done that :

Show how not so smart you are.

This is a very good argument :) I'm not smart but I don't lie, I speak thai with thai people, I don't just "learn" on google or wiki. Think what you want but stop telling b... nonsense.  :P

Hi everybody,

Can we please avoid arguing with each other please?
Do note that we have different opinion on this subject as not all expats experienced racism in the same way. Some may have not experienced it at all. :)

@ Traveller > Maybe you should go to Thailand for a visit first so as to get an impression of how is life there. ;)

Thank you,

Priscilla  :cheers:

Rc2702 :

I see black people throughout thailand. ESL teachers x 4 black guys in little city I live in north east thailand. Do not see a lot cannot name any particular area where there are black persons but I see a few from time to time throughout thailand some with families who are mix thai/black.

Thanks for writing, it's good to know that there is a presence.

Never done that :

@Traveller61

The way i read you message, it make me think you never being to Thailand, Is that correct ?

IF you never being here, Then come for a longer trip 2-4-6 month, Try living here.
Try stay away from the Tourist Area, live among the "normal Thai" and experience live here on you own body.


About the Racism !!

In Thailand it is White is pure, good, high class.

Where Black is the opposite, Bad, do crime, low class and so on.

Dark / black skin is look at a worker skin = Lower class.

A Thai school is proud to say to the Parent, See we have a white foreigner teaching you kids, And we therefor need ekstra money to keep him (her).

Where the school is not going to say, We have a black foreigner teaching you kids and ask for ekstra money, As the parent are not going to pay for that.

In Thai tv serie, The white skin is the heros, Where the Dark / Black skin are the evil / bad guys (girls).


Hard for me to write what i am trying to say in English, But hope you get the idea ?


Many time in bus or other transport i can hear Thai say, See Black drug dealer when we pass a Black person, Even so they clear don´t know that person.


I go to language school years back that have many Black people come all so.
And the 7-8 from Europa all stop and leave Thailand inside 1 year,  As it become to much for them.

I see police stop us when we going out to eat after school, Ask for paper, When we all start to find passport, Police say to me, You can go your white. I never have to show my paper here in Thailand.

Where my classmates (Black) all have to show paper, sometimes get take to police station even so the have all the correct paper.
School have to go to police station to get them out.
If this happened Friday after midday, Many time they didn't come out before Monday.

We go to restaurant together where the people there say, i can come in and eat, but my "staff" have to go to other place, or go to the back and sit outside and eat.
No point to write, We find other place to eat..Where we all was welcome to eat together.

Classmates from Afrika was okay about the way Thai look down on them, They told me this happen all over the world for them, So they learn to live with it.

At Immigration every 90 days for Extension, i got mine fast, But every time Immigration was not happy about the Black people, And try all kind of things.
Again, Many time the school have to send someone to help out.

Again, We all have the correct paper work, nothing was missing.
Only different was our skin color.


The Black / White thing is one of the few things i don´t like about Thailand and Thai.
And even so many Thai never say it out open, I never meet any Thai, That don´t think like that at some level.

My own father in law first time i meet him, Didn't understand why i want to date hes daughter (Now my Thai wife), As she is Brown skin as many Thai is. And i am white skin.

I was hard and long talk, Many talk, explaining that i dont care about color of skin, I dont think people are lower or high class, I see all as even.
I think it toke maybe 1 year before he trust what i told him.



This is from my own experiences, So others might be different.
I didn't write this to offend any, So hope all are okay by it, Only try to share what i experiences.

Thanks for being so honest with your perspective, I value that since I've never been there. It is helpful to know that racism does exist there when making a decision on visiting. Once again, thanks for being truthful.

okimmel :

I know 2 blacks people in Thailand.
One is english teacher in all the schools of the island.
The other one is a fat black american, a caricature, extremely kindness. His wife is young, nice, fresh. I really think she loves him because he's a good person.
Thai people don't judge by appearances.

Awesome, that's good to know that in some cases, an individual's character is seen as more important than his ethnicity, or colour.

TriniMario :

Traveller61

I have been in Thailand full-time for just over 1 year now (on-and-off 12 years) and I could say racism exist. It is not blatant by very covert.  As a Canadian you have a slightly upper hand. Passports matter. Forget the smile to your face - it may be more of a smirk.

Thais, especially those that had not traveled or educated, are particularly so. Some language schools would tell you point blank but to save FACE a gentle smile and say we would see. Thais do not say things direct. Everything must look good. I understand Thai and told many bad (dumb, stupid and ugly are common) things in Thai then the say something different in English but never when my wife's around. Must appear nice is the Thai way. 

You may have read ajarn.com and other teaching sites but it exist. Blacks are tolerated. Having a USA Canadian or UK passport helps.  There are black teachers here but most are not by first choice and their hiring is usually because the insistence of other foreign teachers who look more at qualification - competence not color. Go to any major international school and look at the foreign teachers. Almost all white by school administration choice.

I am black and married to a Thai who lived outside of Thailand.  Came to Thailand. My Brother-in-law is a white Irish guy without a degree went to a language school and was offered a teaching spot almost immediately. He told me and two days later I went (with a FT top 50 MBA plus working in six countries in the oil industry) and told well we would call you back. Three times I have spoken to HR persons on the phone and said I was qualified but need to send a photo to complete the process. Never heard anything back after sending the photo. Walked into magazine (which published my writing) to discuss possible employment and writing projects and was told ,"you sound American on the phone." Never heard anything back.

My step-daughter attends a private school in Pattaya area which hired a teacher who had a USA passport. Turned out he was a dark skin Indian.  Despite students liking his approach and teaching was asked to leave after 3 months - no reason given.

Racism is rampant in Thailand but not overt. The treatment you get, personal experience , is one of disdain and bare tolerance.  I could you some more horror stories. Even my wife feels bad - "How Thai could behave so."  I am looking for a job outside Thailand and hoping the oil price go up.

Your passport helps. But beware that smile may be someone laughing AT you - not WITH you.

From what I've seen, covert and overt racism exists there. Wow, it sounds scary living there being a visible minority, but I'm glad I asked and got the truth. I value the honestly. Good luck with your next move.

Some thai people like any race can harbour some racism but I think if you have witnessed it first hand as a farang then it may be to simply curry favour with farang. Get you on side just something to talk about or perhaps the chaps were seeing if said person had disdain them self. 

Farang dam is simply a differential to the farang for white and in Arabs case I believe they say caak.

That's not racist.

I have been treated badly by some thais but that had nothing to do with colour it had to do with not being thai.

I am sure we have all had this at some point.  I get a bit bored of hearing the word farang when I'm strolling about, just makes me think " really is this a highlight for you that you must talk about it"  but maybe it is! I do not think thais are racist toward one race I think if a thai is racist he is racist to all who are not thai. 

These first hand experiences mentioned sound like they may be from another time. He mentions years ago so maybe it was different years back. In my tiny city of 100k population I'd say there are:

10 blacks - 4 being teachers I have seen 1st hand
200 whites
20 Arabs

The most obscure farang is female wonder how they feel. I seen 1 farang lady in my city. We're not talking holiday spots here either.

So yeah you will stick out like a sore thumb, but anyone non thai does and farang dam or just farang your on the outside anyway so I do not see how it matters.

Thais especially the southern thais absolutely Love Bob marley and I met loads of thais who have dreads etc and a few who look like bob himself.

If you in bkk wrong place wrong time and you not thai bad stuff may happen but i doubt that is due to being black/white it is due to not being thai therefore you become an easy target.

All that said I have never had an altercation here with a thai. Nearly but never happened so don't read too much into the wrong place words thailand is a beautiful country and the upside heavily outweighs the downside IMO.

I also recommend to make some «test living» here - and to start learning Thai.

It is true, that in Thailand, white skin is preferred. Just everybody wants to have white skin and the stores and ads are full of all these «whitening products».

On the other hand, it is not clear what Thai people think. Thai people tend to be a little. I try to figure out it within my Thai family. Everybody answered, that they don't have problems with «black people». As mentioned from others, Thai people often don't say what they think.

I assume, that it depends in the area you live. Bangkok may be different that a rural village. Otherwise, in a rural village it is easier to setup personal contacts.

@Never done that
You are really idiot and you don't know how help people or explain something , I don't know where you are from but if I guess you are from one of the white poorest countries that don't have knowledges and experience about life .

You are clear racist but know that you don't enter paradise for your white skin , every nation has bad and good , you cannot claim goodness because no body knows you who you are though you look bad when I checked your writing and how you explain something , I hope you will never write again anywhere and any website's discussion forum because no one needs your dirty openion.
I hope you will refrain what your dirty heart tell you.

@Abdisiyad1

I don't think that Never done is a racist. He only wrote down his impressions and how he thinks, how Thai people thinks about «white» and «black».

It is not his opinion!

Very harsh message, very disrespectful you should keep a more open mind the guy is simply detailing some experiences.  What he said about drug dealer black guy is highly likely as some uneducated thais simply learn such things and make a lot of effort to talk and commentate when they see something different. Exactly the same thing happens when they see a white guy or even a ladyboy. Example: during songhkran day we hired a big truck took a load of locals in the back. One particular youngster would simply comment on anything she saw that was notable. The word "katoey look look" was shouted as we passed this ladyboy. Same thing with farangs do you not hear this word a lot when you out and about.

Their normally commentating on you.

As I said it is simply a highlight for them. The guys experiences especially the language school points sound from another time but I do not doubt for a second they happened and hopefully to a lesser extent i'm sure they still happen.

I think where your based in thailand is also going to produce very different experiences.

If your in Isaan, your going to come across people with very different views to people in bangkok and the south and north because those areas have strong tourism connections which has prompted mire open mindedness amongst thais.

Also read the other posts the black guy with thai family was giving a 1st hand account. Do not see anyone slating him so why this guy?
and this Danish guy I think his English is being written in a very clear manner in order to ensure those with a lower level of English can understand. I am sure we all do this when speaking to a thai in order to be clear.

I recall being in a bar in KL with an English lady from a Chinese family, sitting at a table with a very pleasant Malaysian lady from a local Indian descended family.
I commented on a drug dealer, noting I'd just found the local 'connection'.
The English lady suggested I was being racist because he was a black guy.
Nothing to do with his skin colour, just the fact he kept taking people into a corner and exchanging little packages for cash ... like, bit obvious.

I pointed out our very mixed race situation, asking if I was likely to be a racist - She shut up, realizing she'd been a twit.

Another was in Rotherham whilst doing some business for the local council, something that needed some Urdu language checking.
The dude I was with was stuck, unable to offer suggestion as to how to make sure it was right. There were a couple of Pakistani ladies there so I asked one if they would be kind enough to help us. Turns out she was a lovely lady, more than happy to assist.
Problem solved.

The council guy told me it was racist to do that.  Drr, what should I do, ask a selection of races if they speak Urdu, hoping a Chinese guy could do the honours?
It isn't racist, it's logical.

Point being; people sometimes see racism when it isn't there.

Never done that :

@Traveller61

The way i read you message, it make me think you never being to Thailand, Is that correct ?

IF you never being here, Then come for a longer trip 2-4-6 month, Try living here.
Try stay away from the Tourist Area, live among the "normal Thai" and experience live here on you own body.


About the Racism !!

In Thailand it is White is pure, good, high class.

Where Black is the opposite, Bad, do crime, low class and so on.

Dark / black skin is look at a worker skin = Lower class.

A Thai school is proud to say to the Parent, See we have a white foreigner teaching you kids, And we therefor need ekstra money to keep him (her).

Where the school is not going to say, We have a black foreigner teaching you kids and ask for ekstra money, As the parent are not going to pay for that.

In Thai tv serie, The white skin is the heros, Where the Dark / Black skin are the evil / bad guys (girls).


Hard for me to write what i am trying to say in English, But hope you get the idea ?


Many time in bus or other transport i can hear Thai say, See Black drug dealer when we pass a Black person, Even so they clear don´t know that person.


I go to language school years back that have many Black people come all so.
And the 7-8 from Europa all stop and leave Thailand inside 1 year,  As it become to much for them.

I see police stop us when we going out to eat after school, Ask for paper, When we all start to find passport, Police say to me, You can go your white. I never have to show my paper here in Thailand.

Where my classmates (Black) all have to show paper, sometimes get take to police station even so the have all the correct paper.
School have to go to police station to get them out.
If this happened Friday after midday, Many time they didn't come out before Monday.

We go to restaurant together where the people there say, i can come in and eat, but my "staff" have to go to other place, or go to the back and sit outside and eat.
No point to write, We find other place to eat..Where we all was welcome to eat together.

Classmates from Afrika was okay about the way Thai look down on them, They told me this happen all over the world for them, So they learn to live with it.

At Immigration every 90 days for Extension, i got mine fast, But every time Immigration was not happy about the Black people, And try all kind of things.
Again, Many time the school have to send someone to help out.

Again, We all have the correct paper work, nothing was missing.
Only different was our skin color.


The Black / White thing is one of the few things i don´t like about Thailand and Thai.
And even so many Thai never say it out open, I never meet any Thai, That don´t think like that at some level.

My own father in law first time i meet him, Didn't understand why i want to date hes daughter (Now my Thai wife), As she is Brown skin as many Thai is. And i am white skin.

I was hard and long talk, Many talk, explaining that i dont care about color of skin, I dont think people are lower or high class, I see all as even.
I think it toke maybe 1 year before he trust what i told him.



This is from my own experiences, So others might be different.
I didn't write this to offend any, So hope all are okay by it, Only try to share what i experiences.

Well put and pretty accurate... It sounds like you have spent some time in Thailand and have an idea as to what you are talking about (unlike many members here who "wannabe" living in LOS but it seems these forums are as close as they will ever get - although this small fact is overlooked when they attempt to answer questions they have no experience of)

I would ignore some of the responses above as they seem very ignorant of the facts ( you will know which they are when you read them).

To answer the OP's question; Yes it is very racists and Yes you will stick out like a sore thumb everywhere you go. Thai people are some of the nicest and the most racist in the world... You don't have to be black to suffer racism in Thailand - just ask most Cambodians or Burmese who have had the experience of living and working in LOS...

Regarding a post above stating racism is not "overt" and another which mentions Arabs being called "Kak" (sic), sadly both wrong again... Overt racism, surely  means racism in the open, or institutionalized racism, as in having a double pricing policy for national parks, stadiums, or even bus/taxi rides. This would not be allowed to happen in other parts of the world yet it happens everywhere in Thailand and the excuse given is that "foreigners earn more money so they can afford it"... I see Koreans or Chinese get on Baht buses and as long as they don't open their mouths they pay the Thai rate, whilst any foreign looking person next to them will have to pay the Faraang, Kek,  (fill in your own derogatory label - there are loads to choose from) prices. If that is not blatant racism then please provide and example of what is considered racist.

I would suggest the original poster look to neighboring countries as they are more tolerant towards other nationalities. I think given the current political situation in Thailand, I think places like Cambodia are much more favorable than Thailand today. On a personal note, it took me 16 years of living in Thailand to realise that (and my Thai partner agrees with me!)...

i think you overlooked the Question dear, the question from the original OP is specifically about black people when you say it yourself racism exists to anyone non thai in many forms.

Dual pricing is not a thailand wide problem it is a tourist area problem bkk included.

Not sure why you tried to say Kaak is incorrect but to save time google it or better ask a thai or three its a common name for arab, malay etc.

Thanks

Rc2702 :

i think you overlooked the Question dear, the question from the original OP is specifically about black people when you say it yourself racism exists to anyone non thai in many forms.

Dual pricing is not a thailand wide problem it is a tourist area problem bkk included.

Not sure why you tried to say Kaak is incorrect but to save time google it or better ask a thai or three its a common name for arab, malay etc.

Thanks

Firstly I am not your "Dear"...

Secondly, The OP was asking about racism as a black Canadian. My answer clearly told him that yes it is racist; so much that other nationalities from nearby countries suffer it too (meaning the racism for a black man will be a lot worse than the racism suffered by people who don't look a lot different to Thai folk).. The fact I didn't go in to greater detail as to specific cases of racism against "black people" is irrelevant and I am sure the OP understood this...

Regarding your "Dual pricing is not a thailand (sic) wide problem it is a tourist area problem bkk (sic) included" comment, I am not sure where to begin as your comment can be taken apart on so many levels that I won't bother to and instead I will show off what my many years in Thailand has taught  me by smiling and saying good luck with that mate...

Finally, I did not "try" to say "KaaK" is incorrect and I do not need to save time by googling it as I already know the word you are thinking of is "Kek" (pronounced the same as "Jek" meaning "Chink") and is refereed to Middle Eastern looking people... Arabs are called Arabs everywhere I have been but maybe I have been spending time with better educated more discerning racists.

In English, one of the meanings of "Kaak" is what people wear under their trouser... as in that guy's answer on the forum was so funny I nearly shat my Kaaks... or another meaning of the word could be rubbish or incorrect, as in That guys answer on the forum was full of inaccurate kaak... He may be full of kaak...

Hope the above helps...

Definite prejudice towards blacks, Cambodians etc., in Thailand. I am a white Canadian living here and teaching for more than 6 years.

You will be easily accepted, some schools may wish to pay you less money as they do Filipinas and Chinese.  Many Thai women say that they do not like black men, but many Thai women date and marry black men.

Colour should not be of concern for you as an individual, as long as you can pay your way in Thailand, your colour is not a hindrance.

colbamumbai :

Definite prejudice towards blacks, Cambodians etc., in Thailand. I am a white Canadian living here and teaching for more than 6 years.

You will be easily accepted, some schools may wish to pay you less money as they do Filipinas and Chinese.  Many Thai women say that they do not like black men, but many Thai women date and marry black men.

Colour should not be of concern for you as an individual, as long as you can pay your way in Thailand, your colour is not a hindrance.

Awesome, it's good to know that there is inclusion. I would like to visit in the near future.

There are a lot of nicer countries that you can visit. Many of us live here because we cannot afford to live in our countries of birth, also for climatic reasons. Thai people were very nice 40 years ago and much more welcoming. Unfortunately they have been Westernized. Thai children now grow up on I phones and television, years ago they were raised by their parents and had values and respect, today that is not the case.

Your thai partner will if course agree with you. Brave chap.

Dual pricing is not such a bad thing IMO and charging tourists more makes sense and some good can occur from that increased income. And I hope you never see where the positive is but here is an example:

3 years ago a man from Leicester (uk) was in a bar he was kind of working there unofficially, he was also living there. I spent an hour speaking to him he was a bit downtrodden not really looking after himself too well. I asked if he was ok. The story was pretty sad but he managed to travel throughout thailand staying with Buddhist monks for days sometimes weeks. For over a year before i met him. They fed him and when they had enough of him they gave him a bit of cash and said time to move on.

Thai people who are poor also utilise the monks for a bit of support now and then and as explained above so have farangs.

I hope no one is ever in that position.

Buses, restaurants etc yes wholly agree just greedy people making the system look very bad. Some buses are free in bkk for ANYONE. but tourists who are on holiday paying a tad more than thais to visit holy shrines, national parks. so what. Appreciate I'm a minority on this views but being a minority is old news for me.

Caak as in posters comments about caak pants that's a load of bull excuse the pun it is cack as in sh#t as in cack my pants it was a weak point with absolutely no relevance to the discussion other than a feeble attempt to mock an opinion.

The less said the better about the rest of the comments but the one I liked the most was what 16 years has taught someone. To not say anything but ok good luck. Let's just say Lemon.

I don't usually respond to posts that I think may be posted just get a reaction (there is a word for it!) but I think the OP deserves a few points above to be clarified. If you have spent some time in Thailand, (with pretty decent Thai people), you soon learn the importance of when to speak, when to smile, and when to keep your silence. Thai folk are the masters of this and it is probably the most important lesson for non Thai visitors to learn if they want to be treated with respect (regardless of colour or creed). I explain this at the bottom of a seriously long post (which I apologise for in advance and hope the good readers/Mods on epat.com forgive its length and realise my intentions are trying to be helpful and not in anyway malicious.

Having said that, I have never replied to a forum question and then received a PM from one of the posters (Rc2702 - not OP) informing me that "... in the coming days I am going to try to make sense of what you have said and reply to that post so relax take a rest and give your fingers a break:-)"

I didn't reply to the PM but have attached this post so others can see the joys one can expect when one tries to help...

So for the sake of making things a bit clearer,

Rc2702 :

Dual pricing is not such a bad thing IMO and charging tourists more makes sense and some good can occur from that increased income.

In your humble opinion why is dual pricing not a bad thing and what good can come from the increased income? Do you think that extra income gets "trickled down towards building a better infrastructure for the paying tourists, or perhaps they use the extra money they fleece from "non-Thai looking tourists" towards paying for extra cleaners to pick up empty bottles of Red Bull and foam boxes littered on various beaches and National Parks (the very same places the tourists are paying 10 times the ticket price to enter). "the some good can occur from that increased income" that you mention actually means that extra bottles of Chang will be bought that night, whilst the wife/gik/gf can lose more at cards knowing hubby can cover the cost.

Rc2702 :

And I hope you never see where the positive is but here is an example:
3 years ago a man from Leicester (uk) was in a bar he was kind of working there unofficially, he was also living there. I spent an hour speaking to him he was a bit downtrodden not really looking after himself too well. I asked if he was ok. The story was pretty sad but he managed to travel throughout thailand staying with Buddhist monks for days sometimes weeks. For over a year before i met him. They fed him and when they had enough of him they gave him a bit of cash and said time to move on.

Thai people who are poor also utilise the monks for a bit of support now and then and as explained above so have farangs.

I hope no one is ever in that position.

Really? This is your best yarn as to the positives of dual pricing? Lets translate what you have written for the sake of those on this thread who have never lived in Thailand:

3 years ago a LOSER from Leicester (uk - as opposed to Leicester in Lahore), also now known for their "Siam Foxes", due to their Thai owners, (a topical bit you should have thrown in as titbit but sadly missed), was "kind of" ILLEGALLY WORKING and LIVING in a BAR (quality kind of visitor Thailand loves to welcome with open arms). It took a whole hour of talking to the bum before realising the bum illegally working and living in the bar was  a bit "DOWNTRODDEN"  and not really looking after himself "TOO WELL". (Hope the immigration officials "kind of" catch up with his sorry ass and "kind of" deport him)

You think the story you heard from the Bum From Leicester (BFL!) is pretty sad as he begged around the country staying with and getting fed by monks for days and "sometimes weeks". Imagine that, you go to a foreign country and when your visa and money runs out, you don't do what any other sane person would do and return home; instead you decide to trek around a foreign country staying in the equivalent of free lodgings where the kindhearted people there feed you and put you up (probably not caring that you are a BFL on a very cheap jolly for a few months.) There was a story on social media a few months ago regarding a German national with a gammy foot who spent the days begging the streets of Bangkok before mongering with his earnings at night.

Your sad story is nothing short of shameful and the main reason why the Thai gov't has constantly moved the goal posts regarding Visas and immigration, which ultimately effects those of us who are  legally working, staff employing, tax paying expats in LOS. The funniest part of your story (which sums up the rest of your post nicely) is the bit about the monks who "fed him and when they had enough of him they gave him a bit of cash and said TIME TO MOVE ON". Do monks do that? Do they have a reservation system in place and was the temple overbooked when they turfed the BFL or was the guy such a pain in the arse that even the Buddhist monks, with their amazingly trained patience, thought to themselves, sod the years of teachings we have been given, lets throw this guy out. Not the kind of Monks I have ever met.

Your comment about poor Thai people utilising the monks for a bit of support now and then is also not very accurate. Yes poor people can take refuge at a temple (just like unwanted/stray dogs) and the monks will make sure they don't go hungry. But to say they "utilise" it now and then makes it sound like a cafe you pop in to for a meal when you are short of cash. A more correct statement would be that it is the Thai public that give the daily food in offerings that feed those that have taken refuge at the temple and nothing to do with dual pricing withing the Kingdom. Do your research about the work Monks in LOS carryout on a daily basis with HIV suffering people who have been abandoned by their own families, or the help they provide for the "Thai" drug addicts that the rest of the society has shunned; then your story about the guy from Leicester doesn't seem either relevant or particularly sad.

Rc2702 :

Some buses are free in bkk for ANYONE. but tourists who are on holiday paying a tad more than thais to visit holy shrines, national parks. so what. Appreciate I'm a minority on this views but being a minority is old news for me.

More nonsense. Unless you are taking the free shuttle bus between the two airports in BKK, then you will have to pay when riding buses. A simple google search will tell you and the OP that "Regular buses cost 7 baht (cream-red), and 8 baht (white-blue). Expressway buses costs 8.5 baht. Air-conditioned buses (cream-blue) cost from 9 to 19 baht (depending on the distance traveled). All-night buses (cream-red) are 8 baht." Perhaps by "free for anyone" you really mean it's free as long as you are driving the bus.

Tourists on holiday visiting shrines and National Parks paying "a tad more" seem indifferent to you. The island where I live charges anyone who "looks" Thai 45 baht to enter the National Park whilst others have to pay a "tad" more; 450 baht. That's 10 times the price to go in to the same place. How about if you took a holiday to Ibiza or Paris and was charged 20 euros for a 2 euro beer "because you are there on holiday". Would you be happy paying it and say "so what"? You seem to overlook the fact that not all tourists to the Kingdom are well loaded off-shore working sex tourists who visit a few times a year to spunk their hard earned cash and "lord it" over the locals thinking they are big-shots as they can afford to pay 99 Baht for a full English breakfast (bet you had a few of those in BFL's shack of a bar!). Some tourists have to work for years in a crappy job to save up enough money for a once in a lifetime visit to the Far East only to be ripped off once they get here. Very sad and very ignorant of you to think "so what"!

Rc2702 :

Caak as in posters comments about caak pants that's a load of bull excuse the pun it is cack as in sh#t as in cack my pants it was a weak point with absolutely no relevance to the discussion other than a feeble attempt to mock an opinion.

Very hard to decipher what you have written above without an "Enigma machine" but here goes anyway... You still don't get it. Don't come on forums giving "Kak" advice pretending you know what you are talking about. It is not helpful. Once again, the word you were referring to in your earlier ill-informed post was "Kek" pronounced the same as "neck"; not "Caak" which sounds like "Pack" or "Kak" as in what your last post was "packed" full of. In my other post I was not trying to be condescending when I tried to explain the English meaning of "Kak", as from your writings I guessed you were not a native English speaker and perhaps would appreciate some clarification (saving you time looking up big words in your well worn dictionary), but then in your cowardly written PM you mentioned that you are half Pakistani, half Irish, and live in Birmingham. Once I read that I realised there was no point in explaining the intricacies of tonal pronunciations in LOS. Again I suggest the OP check the validity of the words mentioned on this thread through Google before hurling them at anyone (Refrain!)

Rc2702 :

The less said the better about the rest of the comments but the one I liked the most was what 16 years has taught someone. To not say anything but ok good luck. Let's just say Lemon.

The first and hardest thing for anyone moving to Thailand to learn and get used to is the "Jai Yen" or "Cold Heart". It is what attracted me to make the move in the first place. The concept of "Jai Yen" is pretty simple; just when you are ready to scream and shout, maybe rip someones head off, and someone is sticking it to you even though you are in the right, DON'T DO ANYTHING but smile and say to yourself NEVER MIND and IT DOESN'T MATTER (the second and also very hard lesson to learn - Mai Bpen Rai). That was the point of my 16 years of learning in Thailand and being able not say anything except good luck to you (sadly that has gone to pot as here I am, having taken the bait wasting my time replying - to my defense, I have been in London for the last two months on a visa run so all my better attributes learnt in LOS is slowly being eroded away hence the need to get back sharpish.

Once again trying to stick to the topic of the thread and to try and answer the OP's question, here is a funny relevant example that happened to me a few days ago. As mentioned above I am currently in London picking up a visa and on a call to my Thai partner I mentioned the OP's question and how he is concerned about racism in Thailand. I also told her that I replied to the forum (something I rarely do) saying Thailand is pretty racist and some guy started picking fault with most of the stuff I wrote on the forum. (Here comes the funny bit) The first think she asked me was where was the guy from and I said Birmingham to which she cracked out laughing saying "well what do you expect"... "Must be another Bill and Ben (I have changed their names!)"... Bill and Ben were a couple of chaps from Birmingham who came on holiday to Thailand for two weeks and visited our island about 10 years ago. they loved it so much that upon returning to Britain they sold their business in Birmingham (they had a company that put up the crossed finger billboard for UK Lottery outside newsagents in the Midlands area and they had made good money at it). One of them (Ben) even left his wife and didn't tell her. I mean literally popped out to buy something and got on a plane to Thailand. She only found out three weeks later when his mobile phone bill arrived and saw all the calls being made in Thailand. They had a couple of bungalows near me and had taken a couple of the local ladies and were paying them a daily amount to stay with them. I would often see Ben sitting in the balcony nursing a beer at 10 am whilst his lady friend would be preparing a seafood BBQ feast whilst calling her friends over to join them (Farang Ngoh โง่). Anyway, to cut a long story short, they tried to setup a water-sport business on the island, spending millions of Baht on speedboats, jet-skis, and other equipment without bothering to see who exactly is running the various businesses they were thoughtlessly encroaching upon. Within 12 months they had lost everything and had to return home broken. Ben's money ran out earlier and he was without a lady for a while before (and I swear to god I am not making this up!) his estranged wife who he hadn't even bothered to phone before leaving, turned up to our island and stayed with Ben for his last few weeks before both returning home a little wiser to sunny Birmingham.

So all it took was for me to say the guy was from Birmingham and she automatically remembered the idiots from years ago and tarnished this guy with the same brush. Her labeling of all people from Birmingham as foolish shortsighted people similar to Bill and Ben is pretty racist and she has similar incorrect views regarding people from Russia, Germany, Israel etc. (the list is long and this from an educated business person who has had numerous business experiences with these nationalities and has reached her conclusions as a result).

In the PM sent to me it states,

"Sleep well dear and stop being so uptight or I may have to name you OH and give you the surname Dear :-)"
and
"Only 2010 was my 1st time and then every year for 2 months minimum until 2014 then 6 months then this time 14 months ( 3 weeks break. SHIT HIT THE FAN) all with the same person who is far from silly and my Rock. Time is what you make it."

You perfectly seem to display my point about "wannabe" citizens of LOS going on about how "regular" tourists they are, and yet they remain too gutless to pack a bag, say goodbye to daddy's convenience store/home and leave the hovel that is Birmingham for pastures new and afar... Or perhaps your "Rock" (don't make me laugh!) may have another "SHIT HIT THE FAN" moment and you have had to "help" out another family emergency (sick buffalo, English lessons, Bad Landlord, leave Bar - take your pick, I know this because Thai people who live and work near me (men and woman!) often come to my place of business, and as a favour ask me to translate sob story letters to various love-stuck "teeraks" around the globe. Some would even offer to pay but I never accepted as the bad karma involved in writing the letters was heavy enough for me to burden.

Hope you don't end up like the people you frequent with on your visits.

Nearly forgot to mention, I am not white and would be considered a "Kek" in Thailand...

***

Lol. As I said. Lemon. Very very bitter and predictable.

I live in Thailand since 2009 and I can say that Never done that is quite right about people with darker skin, the prejudice, etc.. He is very spot on on the police and immigration thing as I have witnessed these myself with a white skin and a darker skin foreigner. The way they are dealed with are contrasting to each other. Now, let's say that the darker skin foreigner is married to Thai, you will hear lots of gossiping around as to why the Thai lady had married such a person. But still, you do have Thais that do not care about skin at all, the newer generation that is. Now let alone a darker skin foreigner, there are prejudice among a darker skin Thai and a pale skin Thai... so go figure.

However, you should not let these dictate your decision. These are just facts but you could be treated differently as it all depends. John Maxwell always says that connecting to people make a lot of differences. Nowadays, a lot of people can communicate to each other but very few can connect to people. If you can do that, I don't see why won't  you be successful in LOS.

Let me tell you something, my in-law's house is opposite to a school and there is the darker skin foreigner working as a teacher. I spent every free time I have at my in-laws and I can see the difference. Since he is friendly and generous, kids, parents and his colleagues, all like him a lot. Every time he's leaving after school, parents will "wai" to him, and kids shouting "see you tomorrow teacher". Why can't you be successful if you can connect to these people?

Hi i am from india, i am regularly traveling to thailand since last 3 years, in an year atleast 3 months i will be at thailand for personal and official duties.  I never face any of these racism of partiality problems anywhere in thailand until today. 

In my opinion thais are one of the most polite people in the world.  there culture and lifestyle is one of the best in Asia also.

If there were 1 or 2 cases of racism or something else, its happening all over the world, not only in Thailand.

Welcome To thailand Friend.!

Based upon my observations, Bangkok/Thailand (on-the-street level) is considerably safer than most places in the world.

Filipinos may well speak some of the best English in SE Asia, however Asians are still Asians everywhere, with all the entrenched cultural biases, especially a skin-color, Negro_Phobic social caste system,.........even among themselves.

For example, you will never see a "brown-skinned" Flight_Service_Attendant on Thai Airways, representing a country of predominately brown-skinned people, for a clue.

Otherwise, Thailand gives the best Asian "bang for the buck", bare none. Good luck, :cheers:

I have a Thai lady friend in Chiang Mai. When she drives in the day she wears a mask, one of those hospital things. I asked her why. She told me that she didn't want the sun on her face. Does that say anything?

I have said it many times over the decades. People in New York go to Florida in the winter to get a sun tan. (Donald Trump has his face painted sun tan.) In Thailand as many Thai's as is possible avoid the sun because a sun tan is low class. They even sell this white pearl type of make up for their face.

All I can do is observe.

With all this talk. This makes me wonder what was the prevailing attitude towards our (then) "President Obama"?

To the Original poster:
you bring up an interesting subject. I have traveled to LOS on numerous occasion (I am an American of African Decent; aka "a black male") with plans to move to Thailand in the very near future. I have not experienced the degree of racism experienced in some of the previous post (then again, aside from my skin shade, i don't come across as a stereotypically threatening black male). I have gotten the "look" but I consider that flattery on my part. Most of the women I have dated in Thailand were worried that I would reject them because of their skin shade (which was surprising for me considering the history of "my" country). This is not to say that racism is not present and rampant. Most of the described perception of "racism" seems to be culturally ingrained (which is typical of my experience in my travels to Asia, but still doesn't make the attitude acceptable, but I am a guest so I roll with the punches). With that said, I would not let that behavior deter you from travelling to an otherwise beautiful country.

As much as people will adamantly deny it, prejudice still lives in America.

If history gives us any knowledge, prejudice is something that can not be completely eliminated. But enforced laws to stop it help. There are parts of the south where the "N" word in acceptable. With Trump some of those people are now more emboldened.

Let us all stop here with this topic before this post is stopped, for good reason!

bill kip :

As much as people will adamantly deny it, prejudice still lives in America.

If history gives us any knowledge, prejudice is something that can not be completely eliminated. But enforced laws to stop it help. There are parts of the south where the "N" word in acceptable. With Trump some of those people are now more emboldened.

Let us all stop here with this topic before this post is stopped, for good reason!

a couple of things...
1. i was conveying to the original poster my experience in relation to his post and question, and as such only made one comment regarding "my" history of racism in my country of origin in comparison to my experience in Thailand.

2. It is really unfair and inconsiderate of you to suggest to end this discussion after you made a comment without giving me or other posters an opportunity to respond (awfully one sided of you). My apologies if my comment made you uncomfortable. This is a subject that is uncomfortable for me, as it affects me directly, but I choose to  directly discuss this subject directly and to leave myself open for responses and comments to grow and understand each other from multiple perspectives.

The growth and understanding is something that I adamantly support, it's that getting off track and whatever that I question.

bill kip :

The growth and understanding is something that I adamantly support, it's that getting off track and whatever that I question.

Please convey to me what in my comment is considered off track. all in my original comment was in response and in answering  to the original poster's question.

Hi all,
I just received a notification yesterday of a new posting. I've read through the responses, and appreciate those who have shared their insights, thoughts, etc. I still live in Canada, but very much interested to visit overseas. Thanks.

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