How do you solve a problem like Brazil?

And Capitalists destroy the Middle Class. Look whats going on in the USA - cost of tuition, few jobs for graduates, low-paying jobs where they can be found, pensions have disappeared except for government workers (and they are under attack), taxing Social Security (Reagan) and lowering or eliminating taxes on the filthy rich, cost of medical care, attacks on Social Security which the capitalists lie and call it a give-away (you're darn right I'm entitled to it. I paid into it for 46 years), etc., etc.
Look how socialism works in Scandinavian countries - everybody eats, goes to college if they wish, has housing, had medical care and the "happiness' scale is the highest in the world.

Brazilians love to talk about all their problems. Except their cause.
Don´t ever criticize a Brazilian, although they have made of a paradise land a third world country where votes are bought with a pair of shoes, because you know, it´s not the fault of 190 million people, but of a few bureaucrats, that the entire country is all screwed up.

How do you solve a problem like the Kobayashi Maru ?
Whether your income is reals or dollars get ready for another loop on the Brasil economic roller coaster.
BRASILIAN REAL ROUT INTENSIFIES AFTER SPENDING VOTE
Efforts to put it's fiscal house in order were dealt a major blow after Brasil's lower House of Congress voted overwhelmingly to increase spending. In a first round vote, the lower house voted 445-16 to pass a bill that would raise wages of some public employees and police officers. The bill, which still needs to pass a second round vote before going to the Senate, could cost state coffers an extra R$ 2.5 bn per year.
The Real just tumbled 2.4 per cent to a fresh 12 year low of R$ 3.56 per dollar. The drop is the currency's biggest one day decline since May and takes the Real's losses this year to over 25 percent.
Analyst reckon there is more pain to come with Societe Generale forecasting the Real to sink as low as R$ 4 per dollar in the coming weeks.

My wife, who is Brazilian, told me something I had never heard after I met her and we started dating about 18 years ago in Chicago. She said that in Brazil they say "in a democracy, the people get the government they deserve".
It took me a while, but then it made a lot of sense.
In other words, in a democracy the people elect the leaders. The problem in Brazil, as well as in the USA, is a  combination of low-information voters who don't understand the issues and, instead, vote based on their prejudices there-bye voting for parties who are out to screw them and/or lazy voters who don't show up at the polls.
Example - voting based on social issues like abortion, birth control, etc. casting votes for politicians who want to take Social Security away from you. These people get the government they deserve.

That´s it.
When you look at how ignorant the French were in the 17th century, you can have faith that
Brazilians will be a serious people one day,

The problem is they are willing to learn by pain.

I dont see Brazilians really wanting to become a developed country as a whole, and this is one of the main reasons I defend that São Paulo should become an independent country, which has never been the typical Brazil and one of the few where people have a minimum interest in becoming a civilized land.

No judgement here, I just think that we don´t need to keep trying to impose our views on the direction that country should take on each other.

Hi everybody,

Again, i would like to remind you that according to the Brazil forum code of conduct, topics on politics and religion are prohibited on Expat.com !

You can of course discuss on the problems that Brazil is actually facing, but bear in mind that we should not give our own opinion on government, politicians etc. We should also avoid being judgmental.

Thank you for your consideration,

Priscilla

Daugustonew, your analogy about how ignorant the French were in the 17th century, is a bit strange... They were clearly ignorant by today standard. But 17th century is the "Grand Siecle". Actually when France became first European superpower, domining Europe in military, politics and demographic. Century of Louis XIV, Versailles, great writers, philosophers and scientist (Pascal, Descartes).
I just hope that Brazil would be like that...

daugustonew wrote:

Brazilians love to talk about all their problems. Except their cause.
Don´t ever criticize a Brazilian, although they have made of a paradise land a third world country where votes are bought with a pair of shoes, because you know, it´s not the fault of 190 million people, but of a few bureaucrats, that the entire country is all screwed up.

I both disagree and agree with you.  Most of the Brazilians I know love to talk about this country's problems...and their causes as well. However, in my opinion, they are not good at taking responsibility ("Let's blame the others.") and they're not good at offering any solutions. I think the lack of solutions is a result of their feeling helpless. The poverty, corruption, and crime...everything has gotten so out of hand here. Look at Rio (or any major city in Brazil)...what kind of country allows its slums to grow THAT big??? Someone else said it here in this thread...but many Brazilians are just too passive. Maybe it's cultural? I love my Brazilian friends - they are some of the warmest and friendliest people that I've ever met - however, there is such a thing as "social responsibility" and I think that most of my friends don't have a clue about social responsibility. Again, maybe it's cultural? Are there any Brazilians who think, "I need to act for the benefit of society at large.  I need to make some sacrifices so that my country as a whole can become stronger."

Go 49ers wrote:

ps, I don't think the problem is "socialism," it's stupidity, greed, and racism/elitism.

I mostly agree with you. In my opinion, the problem is ignorance (different from stupidity and even more frightening than stupidity), greed, and racism/elitism. So far, I've had pretty honest, interesting conversations with my Brazilian friends about this country's ignorant/uneducated population and greedy politicians, but the racism/elitism is a touchier subject. I don't know how to bring this up without personally offending my Brazilian friends, who all happen to be "white," educated professionals. I tend to be highly critical of Brazil, but naturally, I am less critical of my friends, whom I truly care for. However, if I am honest with myself, my privileged Brazilian friends, who also enjoy ranting against their politicians and the people in the Northeast, are part of the problem. While they may not have been slavers, and while they shouldn't be held personally accountable for the actions of their ancestors, they do need to take some social responsibility for some of the existing ills in their country. Whether they realize it or not, they benefit from a system that marginalizes the poor. And is it any surprise that in this country that brought over 5,000,000 African slaves, that most black or dark-skinned Brazilians are poor? (In contrast, in the United States, which brought over roughly 400,000 African slaves, most of the poor are WHITE. If you want to cite percentages, then yes, a HIGHER PERCENTAGE of blacks than whites receive government assistance, but if you look at just the sheer numbers, there are more poor white people in the U.S.) So, I think the first step is that my Brazilian friends need to acknowledge that simply by having been born "white," (even if they were born into a poor family), starting from Day 1, they had an advantage over their dark-skinned fellow citizens. Maybe if they start here, they'll realize that in order to reform this country, they have to start with education...they need to educate those who didn't have the same opportunities as they did...so that those same people don't grow up in poverty and commit future crimes...and so that those same people don't grow up and elect and re-elect such horrible politicians to run this country.

This past week, I went to a student's apartment and got in the wrong elevator. My student lives in a building where there are two apartments per floor, and there are two private elevators that service the apartments on either side of the building.  I took the wrong elevator to the 13th floor and rang the doorbell to the wrong apartment.    A very attractive Afro-Brazilian woman answered the door, but I knew without a doubt that she did not reside in that apartment. I knew that she was either the nanny or maid. In the city where I live, there is just no chance that a woman with her "coloring" could afford to live in that apartment. How sad...that I've been here less than a year, yet I already know that most of the black Brazilians in my city have been relegated to the lower classes.

Did anyone read this article? I found it enlightening. It's long but worth the read.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor … e25779474/

This maybe a little bit wide of the current topic but does anyone else have a sense of this ?
I live in Ipanema and on one of its busiest streets for foot traffic. It seems as though common courtesy towards each other is lacking in the culture here. I sense this on the sidewalk, in the shops, the metro and while driving on the road. I liken it to a people who are all in their own little bubble floating through the world with complete ignorance to the rest of the population (unless they happen upon someone they are acquainted with).  Is this a cultural thing ? Is it nationwide ? Or is it exclusive to Cariocas ? This living in a bubble concept seems to also be exemplified by the fact that everyone lives behind some sort of wall or gate.
If this is just a misconception of mine then I need an attitude adjustment, but if it is for real then its something I need to come to accept. What do you think ?

I understand what you are saying about racism in Brazil. It's kind of low-key when compared to how it was when I was growing up back in the 50's and 60's in the US with the murders and lynchings which were an every day occurrence in the South back then.

My wife is Brazilian and she is Black (I am white).

At 11 years of age, she left her home to move in with a rich white family to basically raise their three kids. This family owned cattle farms.

My wife studied on her own as she was not able to go to school. When she was 18 a Catholic priest helped her get into a college from which she graduated.

Although she had a government jobs and taught school, nonetheless, it was more financially advantageous for her to some to the US on a travel visa and to babysit for wealthy Americans and/or clean their houses. In spite of her education and dedication to hard work, she just wasn't going to get paid well in Brazil because of her skin color.
We met 18 years ago when I moved to Chicago from Philadelphia following my company's merger with a Chicago company. We started dating, got married whereupon she got a green card and eventually citizenship.

For the pat 15 years she has worked as a case worker for the Department of Human Services for the State of Illinois and has done remarkably well and recognized as one of, if not, the most dedicated worker in the office. She could not have accomplished this in  Brazil. She could have worked, but would not have made much money back then.

I say "back then" because things have been improving a little down there. Because of Lula, the previous president, more Black and racially mixed children have an education available to them.

The following story may help to make your point:

Ten years ago my wife and I offered to take two of her sisters and a brother-in-law living in Brazil on a vacation to Italy (I used to work in Italy and we travel there a lot).

So I contacted Varig Airline's US office and arranged to have my sister-in-law pick up three round-trip tickets from Belo Horizonte to Rome.

When she got to the airline's office in  Belo Horizonte she was mocked, humiliated and bullied and left without any tickets. The entire office gathered around and laughed at her expressing disbelief that this Black person came in to pick up flight tickets/ Mocking her they asked insulting questions like "and how did YOU pay for the tickets?" etc., etc.

When she called my wife to explain, I called Varig and spoke with a no-nonsense person (an American) in Boston. This woman took care of things. After she called down to Varig's office in Brazil, they immediately called my sister-in-law, apologized for the "misunderstanding" and delivered the tickets to her home.

Like I said, things are improving (but have a ways to go).

I first visited in 2001. Back then you would not see a Black or mixed race person working at a bank or government office. Now you see them.

And a very big reason for the lack of professionalism and dedication to service is that White's used to have jobs handed to them especially if they came from certain higher-up neighborhoods. They didn't have any competition.

ndfansince53 wrote:

I understand what you are saying about racism in Brazil. It's kind of low-key when compared to how it was when I was growing up back in the 50's and 60's in the US with the murders and lynchings which were an every day occurrence in the South back then.

ndfansince53, thank you for sharing some of your personal stories. I'm glad that your wife was able to find better opportunities in another country. As for the story about your sister-in-law, I'm sorry that she had to suffer such indignity.   

Before I moved here, my husband told me, "Brazil is not like the United States. There's no racism here."     Yes, the racism here is "kind of low-key" when compared to the open racial conflict that you see in the United States. However, in many ways, the subtle racism here is far more frightening than American racism because like my husband, I think that a lot of Brazilians don't realize how truly racist their society is. Brazilian society marginalizes the poor, but when the poor is comprised of mostly just one race...then that indicates a HUGE problem.

The United States isn't perfect. I'm from Los Angeles, and I'd guess that the entire city would shut down without its current labor pool of poor Latin American immigrants. Go inside any restaurant in Los Angeles, and your busboys, dishwashers, and often cooks, are probably poor, dark-skinned Latin Americans from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, etc. Their mothers, wives, and sisters probably clean the bathrooms of L.A.'s high-rise office buildings and cook, clean, and nanny for well-to-do Americans. These people are also marginalized by American society. However, (I'm not condoning the racism in Los Angeles, but I'm trying to prove a point) most of these people are illegal immigrants from poor countries who don't speak much English. The people in Brazil who are busboys, security guards, dishwashers, maids, and nannies - they're Brazilian!  They speak Portuguese! They were born in Brazil just like their "whiter" counterparts...so why have they all been relegated to the most menial jobs? Because racism is endemic to Brazil.  It's practically systemic and institutional. As far as I'm aware, there is no open racial hatred or violence, but when a country marginalizes a group of people to the point that there is no room or hope for upward mobility because they don't have access to education and other opportunities, then it's just a "modern" form of slavery.

That's the story in just about every Latin American country.

It goes back to the attitudes the European conquerors, mostly Spain and Portugal,  had/have toward  the local Indian natives along with the Black slaves they kidnapped from Africa. These people were enslaved, raped, tortured, murdered. Their land was stolen from them (in the USA as well). Now that the 20th and 21st  centuries have arrived they are just pushed into a corner and ignored, their children denied education, etc.

The Mexicans who come to the USA are typically from Aztec or Apache heritage and stand no chance to improve themselves as long as the "Europeans" continue to run the show and selfishly guard the wealth for themselves and their off-spring. Same thing in Brazil and all over Latin America.

I agree with you kind of , but anywhere in the world been born been born black puts you at a social disadvantage.......not just in Brazil, sadly thats just the truth
If you are black you are more likely to get stopped by the police , be suspected of a crime , have trouble getting a visa etc....and thats in Brazil , the USA, Europe or even Asia. So I personally don't think Brazil is any worse than anywhere else but at the same time your observations are correct.

That said Campinas is a very white city , theres very few truely Black people there like there are in Salvador...however I do know quite a few well off darker Brazilians there in Campinas , but I wouldn't class them as been truely black , more mixed so I'm not sure if that counts for anything

I think this is going to be a long and tough road if they want to reform the economy. The problem is not the socialism, its the fact that many politicians only care about themselves and smugly laugh when they caught stealing from the people.

If they had to pay and got punished for their mistakes things would go differently than what is going on right now. Now it is "promise as much to the people as you can make them believe, and steal as much as you can".

Corruption in Brazil is also tied a lot more to crime than in other countries. You talk too much about corruption, like that radio presentator, you will get murdered in broad daylight. You oppose people cutting trees in the Amazon, no worries, a hit squad is on their way. That is also one of the reasons that people are afraid to speak out about the shady business practices of their governments.

stevefunk wrote:

I agree with you kind of , but anywhere in the world been born been born black puts you at a social disadvantage.......not just in Brazil, sadly thats just the truth
If you are black you are more likely to get stopped by the police , be suspected of a crime , have trouble getting a visa etc....and thats in Brazil , the USA, Europe or even Asia. So I personally don't think Brazil is any worse than anywhere else but at the same time your observations are correct.

That said Campinas is a very white city , theres very few truely Black people there like there are in Salvador...however I do know quite a few well off darker Brazilians there in Campinas , but I wouldn't class them as been truely black , more mixed so I'm not sure if that counts for anything

Yes, black people are discriminated against all over the world. However, while I can't speak for every single country, I can speak for the United States, and in the United States, most Americans acknowledge that theirs is a racist society and that discrimination exists. I see that you're from South Africa. While I've never been to your country, I'm aware of some of its problems, and I'm pretty sure that most South Africans, like Americans, would admit that racism is a problem in their country. Here in Brazil, part of the problem is that many Brazilians don't think that Brazil is a racist country because there isn't any open racial conflict (though the rate at which police are killing off poor black youths in the slums suggests that there is PLENTY of conflict), and it's shockingly deceiving...and frightening. 

Yes, Campinas is a very white city...but black Brazilians do live here. Look around you.    I see them behind the counters of restaurants, working in nail salons, and working as nannies and maids...almost every black Brazilian that I've encountered in this city works a menial job and takes the bus and walks the streets because they can't afford a car. Due to my job, I drive to a posh gated community known as Alphaville every day, and every day, I drive past mostly black or darker-skinned Brazilians walking more than a mile to the gate that's heavily patrolled by guards. After a long day of working as a maid or nanny, they are probably on their way to catch the bus home, but they have to walk past the homes of the rich, the huge man-made lake, and the guards (who also happen to be mostly black).

I know of only one black Brazilian who is fairly well off because he was educated abroad and has a good job. However, he is an exception.

Dear James,
Please do you know how long it take to receive a post within Brazil via corrieos
I am expecting my passport from an embassy in Brasilia and I live in Rio de Janeiro.
They said they have sent the post last week Thursday, and I've not received it till now.
Please I need your help.

Vinco:  I don't live in  Brazil, but my wife is Brazilian and we have visited there often. Her family lives near Belo Horizonte. We send mail and packages fairly frequently.

You just can't tell how long it will take for the Brazilian post office to deliver anything - maybe a couple of days or maybe never. That's how things work down there. Good luck! There's no sense of professionalism, duty or service.

I realize it would be very inconvenient, but might it be possible for you to jump on a bus to Brasilia and pick it up yourself? That would take at least two, maybe three, full days.

The Correios here in Brazil is notoriously slow and unreliable. For instance, when I send a registered letter from Macaé - RJ to Ottawa, Canada it takes two months sometimes. Last time it took 15 days just to get from Macaé to Rio, and then the rest of the time to arrive in Canada. It takes around a month and a half for things to get back from Canada to here.

Here, you just have to be patient and pray that it will arrive at all. Anything that even remotely appears to be of value can get stolen in the postal system here and never turn up again. Last year alone I had six of my monthly pension checks simply vanish from the face of the earth.

Unfortunately, this is what happens when a country has protectionist laws, and thus a monopoly, to any company. The US Embassy used to deliver passports by private courier, for security reasons. Correios took them to court and the court ordered them to deliver by Correios, because they determined that passports fell within the definition of "correspondence" which is the exclusive responsibility of Correios under Brazilian law.

Keep your fingers crossed and hope it arrives, but JUST ONE WEEK..... you're really a dreamer aren't you? Maybe 3 or 4 weeks. If it doesn't show up by then contact the Consulate and ask if they sent it registered mail, if they did then they can track it.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

Yes , I'm not ignorant...I agree with you that Brazilians are a bit oblivious but the point that I'm making is that globally Black generally equals less financially well off....weather it's acknowledged or not..it's the same in South Africa even though it is really really openly disscussed and acknowledged all the time....we even have a name for it "white Privelidge"
which is thrown around all the time......the big difference in South Africa is it's a 80% black country....with a 2 decades of truly Black African leader ship , and sure most of the people doing the menial jobs are of colour but we also have loads of rich black people two......more wealthy black people than all 4.5 million of the white people combined and believe me the majority of white people in SA are not rich at all by USA or even Brazilian standards.

But what can you really do though, are you going to rally against the whole of white Brazil to change their ways
I'm actually in Bahia again now and loving it , It's much more African up here

Alright, thanks a lot James.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/a … ted-waters

"A five-month Associated Press analysis of water at each of the venues where about 1,400 Olympic athletes will have contact with water showed dangerously high levels of viruses from sewage."

"The Associated Press viral testing, which will continue in the coming year, found not one water venue safe for swimming or boating, according to global water experts who analysed the data."

"The concentrations of the viruses in all samples were roughly equivalent to that seen in raw sewage – even at one of the least-polluted areas tested, Copacabana beach, where marathon and triathlon swimming will take place and where many of the expected 350,000 foreign tourists may take a dip.

In Rio, much of sewage goes untreated and runs down hillside ditches and streams into Olympic water venues that are littered with floating rubbish, household waste and even dead animals."

Not a single venue was deemed safe for swimming or boating -- one might as well swim in a sea of raw sewage!    I'm disgusted. I visited Rio last year but barely dipped my toes in the waters surrounding Copacabana and Ipanema because one, the temperatures at the time were mild/cool, and two, I'd also read about the floating garbage and feces in the waters which made me wary of them.

I'm sure that Brazil will TEMPORARILY clean up its act, just in time for the Olympics - or rather, I'm sure that it will sweep everything under the rug and bribe whomever it needs to in order to get the waters to be declared "safe" - but once the throngs of athletes and tourists are gone, things will go back to business as usual. 


"When Rio was awarded the games in 2009, it promised cleaning its waters would be an Olympic legacy. But Rio Mayor Eduardo Paes has repeatedly acknowledged this will not be done, calling it a “lost opportunity.'"

Is anyone surprised?  Another "lost opportunity" in a country famous for its lost opportunities. Brazil should be renamed THE LAND OF LOST OPPORTUNITIES...that is, unless one is a corrupt politician or corrupt businessman...because for these two types of people, it would seem that Brazil is a veritable FEAST of opportunity! 

Victoria,

There isn't even the most remote possibility that Rio will be able to even make the slightest improvement in the water quality. They've in traditional Brazilian style simply left everything until it's far too late.

The problem was clearly pointed out in a New York Times article in May of 2014 "Note to Olympic Sailors - Don't fall into Rio's water"

They've made an absolutely pathetic attempt to clean up Guanabara Bay, with 7 tiny boats. As the article points out, they couldn't do the job with 7 aircraft carriers. At any rate they gave up on the idea of holding any of the aquatic events in Guanabara Bay, moving them into the open waters around Copacabana, Ipanema and the surrounding areas. While marginally better, they still present major health risks as is evidenced that these beaches are often closed to the public for swimming each year due to high fecal coliform counts.

The international reputation of this country and Rio are going to experience a nuclear meltdown of epic proportions in 2016 exactly as everyone has predicted from the very beginning. They blew it with the 2014 FIFA World Cup, which was spread out all over the country. Just imagine how much worse it's going to be with the Olympics and everything concentrated in one city!!! Rio will become the laughing stock of the world.

Who wants to swim in this????????



Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

I think they should move the water events to Salvador. I was there last September I saw large groups of boats and diver removing any trash near the shore. I was amazed how much but also to see how much pride the people had to keep their beaches and water clean. I was in Barra next to the Light house great area. I even thought of living there. Two years ago I did go in the water in Copacabana did not know about this. Lucky did not get sick. Its seems there is very little health safety concerns.

James,

Disgusting! Foul! Shameful!

I'm not just talking about the water...I'm also referring to the level of mismanagement that has let this problem fester for so long.

Once again, I think the pollution problem can be traced back to the poverty problem in this country.  Inadequate housing for the poor + uneducated poor people is the major contributing factor to the pollution.

Victoria

I skin dived there near Barra for half an hour today...water seems pretty clean

I wanted to share this link to a 2013 NYT article that James had posted in a different thread. It will make you sick to your stomach. Brazil's problems run deeper than I'd ever imagined. Schoolteachers and policemen barely make enough to feed their families (let alone themselves), but a parking attendant working in the public sector made US$ 11,500 a month, a librarian made US$ 24,000 a month, and a state judge made US$ 361,500 a month? Yes! In US dollars!

It seems that corrupt politicians are only a part of the problem...the whole system here is seriously messed up. I bet the overpaid people in these cushy public sector jobs wouldn't want to give up a single centavo...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/11/world … aries.html

This is why 1/3 of the GDP goes to supporting the cost of the top-heavy bureaucracy in this country.

It's a good thing that the "Tax Clock" in downtown São Paulo is digital, if it were an analog clock the hands would be spinning so damend fast they'd blow passing cars off the road.

Just watch those numbers flipping over...... play with the arrows on the yellow banner to see what that tax money COULD actually be doing, but doesn't...make you want to scream??? http://www.impostometro.com.br/

And I'll guarantee you that those high paying jobs for the parking attendant and the librarian were created for these particular individuals because they have connections.

Maybe yes, and maybe no...... many public service jobs have obscenely high salaries, compared to what most Brazilians in the private sector earn. But you're right, many of them are tailor made for somebody who is connected. Nepotism reigns supreme in the public sector.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team