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Expert certificate

Hi

I've pretty much chosen the worst time to decide to move to Vietnam, as there are recent laws that have come in meaning it is very difficult to get a work permit if you don't have a degree.

However, I am not put off by this. I have done a lot of reading up and the general gist is thus:

3.4.2 For foreigners who are experts must have one of the following documents:

- Document certifying foreigner has the qualifications at the level of engineer, bachelor”s degree or higher or similar level, and who has at least five (5) years” experience working in the speciality in which he (she) was trained and be consistent with the job position which he (she) will be expected to work in Vietnam.

- Document certifying the foreigner recognized by competent agency, organization or enterprise in foreign country as an expert;

So, as I am an expert in my field of web development, I should have no problem getting a work permit based on a document that says so.

The only problem is, where do I get this document from? The text above (kind of) implies that it could be just the company that I work for now, who would confirm that yes I am an expert. Logic tells me that there must be a governing body who issues these documents, but I can't find anything on the web at all about this.

Can anyone advise please?

Thanks in advance

Ben

In legal terms, usually when you see the term "competent agency" that means either a governmental agency or educational institution. I really doubt that your company would qualify for that. However, since they have included in that "organization or enterprise" there is a good chance that under those terms it may very well qualify. It certainy isn't going to hurt to try!

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

It is a little ambiguous! I've searched and searched online and found nothing concrete about this - I am guessing that because it is a fairly new legislation there haven't been many situations where this has cropped up.

Can anyone advise based on their experience or knowledge? It is difficult for me to approach potential employers with speculation - they would need hard evidence to begin the employment process.

I can't help posting this youtube video about Experts!
So hilarious!
@benjoj : please take it as a joke!  ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

:D

Does anyone at least know of any contacts who could help me with this question?

Don't worry benjoj, someone here will come up with a solution soon. 

Be patient and keep waiting.. ;)

Having lived in Ho Chi Minh for some years and knowing several companies in District 12 that are involved in IT I would recommend that you take what documents you have and visit one or more companies there.  The companies are located in the ANNA Building across the street from FPT's IT University.  The location is at the junction of AH1 and Quang Trung overpass.  By taxi it would cost about 180,000 to 220,000 VND. 
As to the documents to verify that you are qualified...in Vietnam you need certified copies of such (certificates, degrees, letters of employment...something) and then stamped by the local ministry in Vietnam with their 'red stamp'...everything here gets a 'red stamp' to be confirmed by the 'government'...everything! 
Speaking with one of the directors at the ANNA Building may assist you in such, some are German, Swiss, French and Russian to name a few that are joint ventured there...
Hope this may help you.

Hi Anthony, thank you for your reply.

Perhaps that would be enough, getting my UK work contracts stamped. It really does seem that there is no fixed idea of what identifies someone as an expert in Vietnam. There is zero documentation other than the January decree, and absolutely nothing to be found on the internet. It might just be one of those give it a go and see kind of situations.

I am currently living in the UK so a taxi to D12 may be a bit more expensive ( :D ) but I'm over in June so I may take you up on your advice and go and see those people.

Ben

Hi,
I'm not quite sure what do you really need now. You're working on the procedure to get a working permit or you need to be acknowledged as qualified engineer so that you can get a job as well as working permit in Vietnam?

Vi

Hi

It is more the latter - I wish to begin applying for jobs in VN but I need to have the relevant documentation to back up my application, so that potential employers have everything they need to apply for the work permit. If I apply now, without this documentation and without a degree, the general perception will be that I can't get a work permit, which is not true.

Thanks

Ben

Ben,
If and when you do come I can get you in touch with a honest motorbike taxi guy (about half the cost) that I've used off and on for several years in HCMC.  I live in DaNang now and frequent HCMC monthly.  These are well established companies and good people at the ANNA Bldg. 
If you plan on staying here....make sure you have a police report  and certified copies of anything you have before you leave the UK.  It will save a lot of time if you are hired. 
Good luck and let me know...
Anthony

I get you now.
In your case, Vietnam government wants to verify if you are experienced enough to do your jobs in Vietnam or not.
All you need is documents showing that you're qualified and experienced. They can be:
- Your resume (optional but it's very good for their consideration). It's good if it comes with a reference letter from your latest companies.
- Your certification, degree. It's a must and they must be notarized.
- Your previous contracts' copies. It's better if their term is longer than 5 years or totally 5 years continuously. It's a must and they should be notarized.
- Any other related documents showing that you have been working in your field. E.g: your air plan driving license (if you're a pilot for example).

I hope this can help.
Contact me if you need any further help or information.

Scarletvn :

I get you now.
In your case, Vietnam government wants to verify if you are experienced enough to do your jobs in Vietnam or not.
All you need is documents showing that you're qualified and experienced. They can be:
- Your resume (optional but it's very good for their consideration). It's good if it comes with a reference letter from your latest companies.
- Your certification, degree. It's a must and they must be notarized.
- Your previous contracts' copies. It's better if their term is longer than 5 years or totally 5 years continuously. It's a must and they should be notarized.
- Any other related documents showing that you have been working in your field. E.g: your air plan driving license (if you're a pilot for example).
I hope this can help.
Contact me if you need any further help or information.

[Moderated: inappropriate]

ancientpathos :
Scarletvn :

I get you now.
In your case, Vietnam government wants to verify if you are experienced enough to do your jobs in Vietnam or not.
All you need is documents showing that you're qualified and experienced. They can be:
- Your resume (optional but it's very good for their consideration). It's good if it comes with a reference letter from your latest companies.
- Your certification, degree. It's a must and they must be notarized.
- Your previous contracts' copies. It's better if their term is longer than 5 years or totally 5 years continuously. It's a must and they should be notarized.
- Any other related documents showing that you have been working in your field. E.g: your air plan driving license (if you're a pilot for example).
I hope this can help.
Contact me if you need any further help or information.

[Moderated: inappropriate].

Hi!
I highly recommend not to do this.

[Moderated: no illegal advice here please]

ancientpathos :

[Moderated: inappropriate].

Ha ha, thanks for the advice! I think I'll take my chances..

I've Just completed and passed a test on expertrating.com, who will supply me with a rather legit certificate. I will hopefully be able to use this to get a work permit, alongside my contracts of employment.

As there does not seem to be a single person in the world who is in my situation, I will update this post as and when I know whether or not this certificate is acceptable.

Thanks for the replies!

Call Thuy at Flamingo Corporate Services:

http://flamingovn.com/contact-us

Almost in the same boat as Ben!

I have a degree and five years of work experience BUT it is mostly as a freelancer because of which I can not produce formal certificates stating that. What can one do in a situation like that?

I wanted to obtain an Expert certificate before my arrival in VN. But how and from where? Would just a letter stating I am a specialist and competent for my position in VN from one of my ex employer on the company letter head suffice? What the hell is this Expert Cert?!!!

P.S.: I have an offer already.

Thanks!

Try expertrating.com - I have done this and got 2 pretty legitimate looking certificates through. Not sure if they will work but it is definitely worth a shot!

Benjo

But I thought you needed an Expert Certificate ftom your ex employer? :|

I'm using that to complement my application but it may be all you need. There is nothing really stopping you from being a little elaborate with the truth and suggesting that you worked for a company for 5 years, then draft up your own contract stating this.

I maybe looking at the wrong thing. Please share the url. Under what section of the website?

Here you go: http://www.expertrating.com/Certifications.asp

This looks great! Thanks Ben! :)

Good  Luck to you.

Same to you, let us know how you get on!

So, now I am being asked to get my Work Certificates ATTESTED by the respective countries I have worked in.

How does that work? And how important is this? Never heard of work certificates getting attested by consulates!

You should have ask - certified from who. What do accept from who?
As a matter of fact, in Vietnam paper seems to be the friend No1 ;)

The paper work is annoying. Aarrgghh.

In the US, this is done by the State Department...not sure what that is called where you are from.  I had my BA in Business Mgmt done by such along with the little pretty "red" stamp from the Vietnamese Embassy to verify being 'original and true'...I believe the term used was "apostilled" or the authentication of Documents to be used outside the US.  Interstate docs are 'notorized', which also can be obtained from the American Embassy for $50.00 a copy to certify the docs.  I gather your country uses the same 'term'?
Once that is "attested" by proper authority from your country, it needs to be signed off by the Ministry in the City you plan to work in (little red stamp).  This is all done by the company you plan on working for or done by a lawyer as I once did.
The documents you got need to 'certified' from your country that they are "legal documents' and verified by the Vietnamese Embassy as true...and usually the need for translation also...
Just a passing note from one has already been there...I got a document that ended up not being 'true' and 'legal' in the eyes of the Vietnamese Immigration and ended up costing me...not to mention a strong fine from the company that sold it to me and their termination from ever working with Visas and permits again.  Immigration knew that I had been 'taken' and did not ask me to leave or for that matter even hand me a 'fine' for such.  I did not get 'burnt' but had to get a 3 month Visa and have worked it out from there since (March of 2013).  Working now with the Ministry of Education to obtain my work permit to start up my own classes. 
I would not recommend that you receive and use 'fake' documents.

Anthony64 :

In the US, this is done by the State Department...not sure what that is called where you are from.  I had my BA in Business Mgmt done by such along with the little pretty "red" stamp from the Vietnamese Embassy to verify being 'original and true'...I believe the term used was "apostilled" or the authentication of Documents to be used outside the US.  Interstate docs are 'notorized', which also can be obtained from the American Embassy for $50.00 a copy to certify the docs.  I gather your country uses the same 'term'?
Once that is "attested" by proper authority from your country, it needs to be signed off by the Ministry in the City you plan to work in (little red stamp).  This is all done by the company you plan on working for or done by a lawyer as I once did.
The documents you got need to 'certified' from your country that they are "legal documents' and verified by the Vietnamese Embassy as true...and usually the need for translation also...
Just a passing note from one has already been there...I got a document that ended up not being 'true' and 'legal' in the eyes of the Vietnamese Immigration and ended up costing me...not to mention a strong fine from the company that sold it to me and their termination from ever working with Visas and permits again.  Immigration knew that I had been 'taken' and did not ask me to leave or for that matter even hand me a 'fine' for such.  I did not get 'burnt' but had to get a 3 month Visa and have worked it out from there since (March of 2013).  Working now with the Ministry of Education to obtain my work permit to start up my own classes. 
I would not recommend that you receive and use 'fake' documents.

Isn't it ironic, when so many VN's have fake documents, but they never seemed to be checked, unless they do something really bad.?

But where do I get my work certificates attested from? My work certificates come from india and dubai. And now I am heading to VN. None of my certificates are fake. My degree is already attested, however. But the Indian consulate in VN has said that they do not attest private company documents.

Hey Ben, did you solve this problem? I am in the same situation now!  Any help appreciated.

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