Has anyone gone through the simplified naturalization precedure?

Leaves me out in the cold.
All good though, I only speak English, my father never taught us his mother language because he never dreamt any of us would ever go there to visit. Was communist there all of his adult life.
It was so strange to visit his tiny village knowing he had played on the streets there, looked in the graveyard not knowing exactly who I was related to but knew in those small villages everyone was connected  in one way or the other through, friendship, marriage or by just one or two links. Very much a real moving experience.

@Regwo. No answer for that.  2016 is not the same as 2011. It's become a lot more intense demanding a higher level. The more I learn the less I know

More than 800,000 have applied for Simplified Naturalization, of whom only 28,000 have been rejected, according to a recent news report.

http://karpathir.com/2016/04/02/eletet- … r-utlevel/

Hard to understand how a diligent language requirement would have such a high pass rate, though perhaps many are native Hungarian speakers from neighboring countries.

Anyway, let's hope that number doesn't become 28,001.

zif wrote:

.....though perhaps many are native Hungarian speakers from neighboring countries.

Anyway, let's hope that number doesn't become 28,001.

There are plenty of people around here who are "foreigners" yet native speakers of Hungarian.  Their kids are in the school.   All of them seem to be Romanians who have HU passports now.

I have a feeling the number of non-Europeans is quite a small number.  Americans, Aussies, Canucks etc.  I'm sure the majority is from Romania and the Ukraine. I was once told that they almost got rid of the language testing for Americans etc due to a stronger financial situation.  This was mentioned by an Embassy employee but clearly that never passed.  Study study study!

Yes, I was in Subotica a while ago -- it's a very fine city for a visit, by the way -- and was surprised at the prevalence of Hungarian, especially at the supermarket, where the check-out clerk just seemed to instinctively know when to use Hungarian and when to use Serbian. (Me, she checked out in Serbian.)

I know many English only speakers who were given a hard time with HU immigration and in my mind they were never going to take anything away from HU or it's citizens.
They didn't come to work only to live and spend good money brought over with them.
I know someone who is going through immigration services today in fact, let's wish her well, a fellow American with money to spend in Hungary.
I believe most will not stay in Hungary forever,perhaps just a few years but will have added to the HU economy.
I think they should consider ones resources before turning them away from resident status or even citizenship if they have a legit claim through marriage or personal family ties.

Hello Group. I received this today from a "good source" for teaching those of us who are trying to get citz through simp nat.
Just for you info.  She/he sounds very kind and sincere:

" I understand they want to check the level of your Hungarian again - similar things happened to some our our learners last year. We had three people who passed and during the time they were waiting for their citizenship to be approved they received an email to say they wanted to check the level of their Hungarian before the oath ceremony again. Perhaps something similar has just happened to you, although they haven't invited you for a second interview but they will check this before the oath takes place.
Also, they were not our learners but last year I also spoke to two chaps whose level of Hungarian was checked on the day of the oath ceremony, just before the ceremony took place."

Regarding the length of time in which you have to take the oath, the FAQ on the official Simplified Naturalization site says it is one year:

http://allampolgarsag.gov.hu/index.php? … ;Itemid=65

@zif.  You are correct.  1 year.  Had that confirmed today by the Embassy staff.
I was also told that even though my certificate is signed that I must be evaluated again on the day of the ësku. More than speaking is understanding what is being said or asked of me.  So a lot of listening skills to be practiced.

I've been studying on my own using the FSI series, which has hours upon hours of tapes for almost endless listening.

When I was in Hungary last year for a few days, I expected that while I wouldn't be able to understand much at all, I'd still be able to recognize some words and phrases overheard on the street. But not only did I barely recognize a single word, it didn't seem at all like the same language I was hearing on the tapes.

That is, I realized there's a vast difference between professional announcers reading scripted Hungarian and people on the street speaking colloquially, in terms of both the sound and the structure of the language.

Of course, this problem is accentuated with FSI, since the material's a bit dated and reflects quite formal, structured speech. While the Rounds materials are far more colloquial and useful for listening practice, they're very short and just don't have anywhere near the depth of the FSI tapes and texts. Rounds might work if you're studying in class or with a tutor, but for self-study there's just not enough there, leaving FSI as your only practical option.

All of this is to say -- as I think I've said here before -- that I believe you need to spend a month or so in Hungary to get your ear tuned to all the different ways Hungarians speak in real life if you don't want to take any chances with the language test.

Now it's quite possible that the pre-oath language test will be just a pro-forma, "Jó napot kívánok!"  But what if it's not?

@Zif - very good points and I agree.  I pick up words here and there and get the idea but everyone speaks faster and a different tone.
So you are using:    https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/hungarian.html

I bought the http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colloquial-Hung … 0415441978
It jumps around too much but I take certain lines from it that I think are usable.  Most times I believe we need to make our own lesson plan on what we think is important.  Job, study, family etc.

I actually really like the vocab books like:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4347 … _Hungarian

I have no idea what will be asked.  I am taking these months to study my butt off and recall many things and add new ideas of what is important.  I want to speak Hungarian for the rest of my life and not just for the oath.  I have a teacher on italki $10usd/hour and another one as well.  I am in Hungary a lot these months and absorbing and asking everything I can.

I am sure they realize that we will never be fluent.  Conversational yes but not interpreters.  We will have an accent and that's ok.  Look at all the Hungarians that emigrated to USA, Australia, Canada etc and they have accents and make mistakes and yet are citizens.

Yes, that's the FSI course I'm using. Even if you're not using it as your basic textbook, the tapes make good supplemental review material. There must be at least 50 hours there.

Colloquial Hungarian  is what I meant by Rounds, since it was written by Carol Rounds. As I said, I found it far too shallow for solo study. The real detail is all in her Hungarian Grammar, which makes a useful reference tool when you've forgotten something or need to review, but it's not a textbook.  It's also a hard slog to read because of her infuriating insistence on using specialistic linguistic terms: "The demonstrative pronouns are also frequently used cataphorically and as such they may be overt or implied."  How helpful! After coming across a few sentences like that, I decided I didn't want to spend too much time with Ms. Rounds.

I haven't used Skype yet; I feel awkward speaking to a computer monitor and prefer an in-person arrangement, so I'll head to Hungary for a month or two once I feel comfortable with my understanding of the FSI material.

Hello Everyone!

Does anyone have the application forms for this translated into English?  I have the Hungarian versions I received from the Embassy in Los Angeles but would like to have the English versions as well so I don't make any mistakes filling them out.  I am qualified and have all the birth and marriage certificates I need to prove it.

This whole process makes me very nervous as my Hungarian is so so. I can ask for directions, order drinks, comment on the weather, apologize for stupid things I do or ask people if they speak English.  If they ask me to explain my family history or talk about the history of the country in Hungarian then I'm done.  Therefore, I want the paperwork to be perfect so there are fewer things to ask me about. 

Has anyone gone through the process at either the New York or Los Angeles Embassies?  A little pep talk on what to expect would do me wonders!

Many thanks,

Bob

Hey Bob,
All of us on this forum have being going through, went or somewhere in the middle
I am using a teacher on italki and also a teacher for 24 lessons from:

hungariansolutions.com

She is incredible -- study your butt off!  Language is key and I did my application by myself.
If no kids or marriage - half the papers are not needed!
I am loving Hungarian language -- so beautiful but so many mistakes but it is all wonderful.
Study study and study!

That's how my son got his HU citizenship, Hungarian through decent.
His father is the only one in the family to have left HU and move to the US.
The entire family has always been in HU since before they kept records.
My husband handled it all for our son with the HU embassy in S. Cal. about 20 years back.
It was super easy except my husband had to send copies of all his papers and send in our son's birth certificate.
He didn't need to learn Hungarian, he did a bit later on his own when he moved to Hungary and married a Hungarian.
I suppose he got it easy since his dad did the whole thing for him.

When we received paperwork from the embassy in Cal. it was all in Hungarian.

I'm curious about the widely varying experiences people are having with the language requirement, and whether how rigorous they are depends on which consulate someone applies through. Bonder, jesspar, those of you who've done this, could you tell us which consulates you used?

Does anyone have direct experience with the consulates/embassy in the US? What level of language ability they're looking for?

Thanks in advance for the info.

Szia futpar
There is no answer for that of where is better.
The only thing that can be said now is you need an intermediate level and you will be checked twice.  Those are the new rules it seems.
I'm taking endless lessons and putting a lot of time and money into learning the language.
Prepare and be prepared.  There are great teachers out there and I'll be in Hungary 3x before doing my oath as I really want to learn.
The day sentences come together is a day that you realIze it's fun and you are making progress.

Use Google Translate and look here:

http://madjarsko-drzavljanstvo.iz.rs/pr … okumenata/

These are first-hand reports from folks in Serbia applying for Hungarian citizenship. There's some variation in their experiences, but a reasonable ability to converse seems important, though many posters seem to have spent just months studying. Interviews run 15-20 minutes and cover the topics you'd expect.

Look at the rest of that site as well, especially the Forum under "Comments."

(On the "Procedure" page, he explains that yes, you'll have to speak Hungarian satisfactorily when you arrive to take the oath and that if you don't you may be sent back to start over. He also says this doesn't happen very often. Point is, scaring people a bit about their Hungarian when they take the oath seems to be standard procedure.)

Thank you blonder & zif, I appreciate the info. That's very useful.

Part of the reason I was asking is that I've been told by people connected to one of the consulates that they're being more strict with the language requirement for European applications (especially in Serbia) because of concerns that non-Hungarians are trying to use it as a way to get EU citizenship, but they are more flexible with citizens of some non-European countries with histories of large Hungarian immigration (such as US, Canada, Australia, NZ) because there is not much trouble with non-Hungarians applying there. Similar to earlier postings about them considering not imposing a language requirement on citizens of some of those non-European countries (although I don't have any idea how accurate that info was).

I was wondering if the different experiences people are recounting on this board (some people like blonder having very strict requirements, others like jasspar having an easier time) reflect a difference in how applications are treated in different regions and whether what I was told was accurate.

Although what I've heard about the NY consulate specifically is very, very strict and extremely disheartening.

I'm finding Hungarian extremely slow even though the grammar is so regular because the vocabulary is very difficult for me. (I'm not good at memorizing random anything, including vocabulary words.) If I really need to achieve B-level intermediate Hungarian, that would be much more than two years for me.

Thanks for the perspective!

@futpar
Yes, clearly now is a lot more difficult than in 2011-2012.
That part we can all agree upon. 

I don't think it is unfair but you do need a conversational level.  Yes, it is very difficult and costly for lessons but well worth it if you are passionate about Hungary.

I already have an EU passport and a NAmerican one.  So yes, I have heard that for those who already have EU citizenship or Americans, Aussies, Kiwis etc that it "should/would/could" be easier on the language requirements as they are more financially sound countries or if someone is already an EU citizen than they know it is due to passion and love of Hungary.

I am quite surprised that NY is so tough.  I don't think one Consulate will be "easier" than another.  I would suggest studying  the oath, anthem and all the questions and points that zif etc have posted here.  Make it a story about your life.  I know I will NEVER be perfect in magyarul but I will always be a student of the language but I can get by like a Hungarian that has been naturalized in America.  Accent is strong but one can still make a life enjoyable with communicating on a daily basis.

Maybe more people in this forum will chime in and give some help?

Cheers!

Thanks, blonder. I agree, I understand why they want a conversational level of language proficiency, you can't argue with that. It's just much, much harder to achieve than I expected in even my worst-case scenario. I'm generally good at languages but Hungarian vocabulary might as well be Klingon.

Apparently the level expected in NY is very, very high for whatever reason specific to that location. The combination of two worst-case scenarios, and reading the thread zif posted where someone got rejected because s/he didn't know elbow and knee (or something like that) is just frightening.

I'll be very curious to hear what other people's experiences have been like, if they're kind enough to post.

Thanks again and cheers!

@futpar
Wow.  Not knowing words like knees and whatever but yet you can speak about family history, "I go, I went" and give answers to questions about family, work etc.
I agree that elbow and knee etc are words that you may never use unless their is a reason for it.  At that time common sense chimes in to look the word up.  I would think the consulate workers are intelligent enough to agree on that point.

Igen re Klingon.  Some words are like bricks being thrown at my head so I look for alternatives.  I did something that may help you.  I took 3 different days and wrote down every word I used, and needed to know (when in Hungary) - it was between 200-300 words a day.  That is nothing.  You can do it.  We repeat a lot and though I will never recite anything from Kaffka's "Színek és Évek" ...

All I can say if NYC is too difficult then try one of the other consuls around or in Canada?  I think they only let you do it in Ottawa (ugly city) and not in Toronto.  Otherwise I have heard that Vienna is very kind as well as Ottawa.  These were in random readings of course.  I don't want to promise you anything.

Maybe learn the phrase, " Really?  I don't know "ankle, knee" and this makes me come back a second time?" in magyarul.  At least it shows you DO know something though it may not be those 2 hardly used words.  Just an idea.

Cheers
Blonder

@blonder

Your last paragraph made me laugh out loud! Thank you. That is not only funny, it is also a good idea.

I appreciate the encouragement. Your point about functional vocabulary being limited is spot on and a good reminder. I've been frustrated because the class I was taking was teaching us sentences like "Are you a tennis player from Lithuania?" Seriously. That was our first vocabulary. That's not just a waste of time and money, it confuses me when I try to learn words I need to know. I like your approach better.

(Speaking of which, I'm aware of the FSI course, but if you have other instructional materials you like enough to recommend, I'd be very interested in your suggestions.)

Thanks for some tips from a pro! And some good advice and a good laugh to lighten my frustrated mood. (Applause.)

Cheers!

On another Serbian board there is the suggestion that Americans have it a lot easier than Serbians when applying, but that may just be grass-is-always-greener grumbling.

There does seem to be a pattern, though, of the very occasional applicant being treated very strictly, perhaps because of the particular consul or for some other reason. Look at the case of "Marijana," April 29, 2016, in the "Comments" section. On her third visit, she was asked about Shakespeare, "The Bridge on the Drina," and other difficult subjects. Other applicants at Subotica didn't seem to face that kind of questioning.  I think you just have to recognize that there's an element of good or bad fortune involved.

As to learning the language, I'm struggling as well: so many of the words, verbs especially, sound almost the same, and that's not even considering the verb endings, most of which I keep promising myelf I'll memorize "later." And the FSI tapes, good as they are, put me to sleep after about 90 minutes, no matter the time of day.

Under "Language" on that website there are links to various learning resources, some in English or primarily in Hungarian.

And FSI also teaches you to play tennis. I've been reluctant to start looking for a tutor because my experience learning other languages has been that it's difficult, if not almost impossible, to find someone who will teach the way you want to be taught, and that can be frustrating.

@zif

I've heard from several people that they're now stricter with Serbs, Ukrainians, etc. than anyone else, because the incentive for Europeans from non-EU countries to falsify Hungarian descent is so high. I noticed a theme in the comments of "who taught you Hungarian?" and I'd bet the correct answer is mom or grandpa, not a language tutor. I wonder if the consular officers are grilling people when they suspect they're not really Hungarian.

Zif, you've described my frustration with the language perfectly. The words all look and sound alike to me. I get them confused. And the endings... I'm finding Hungarian much, much harder than Russian, even though FSI puts them in the same category.

Part of that difference is that I had excellent Russian instruction. In Hungarian, I've tried a number of different instructional materials and instructors, and haven't found any of them very helpful. Not enough people want to learn Hungarian.

If they're trying to scare me with the "test and retest and ask about elbows" approach, it's working!

But it's reassuring to know I'm not the only one having a hard slog with this. Thank you!

". . . and I'd bet the correct answer is mom or grandpa, not a language tutor. I wonder if the consular officers are grilling people when they suspect they're not really Hungarian."

It's quite clear you don't have to be "Hungarian" in the ethnic sense to qualify. You do need at least one ancestor born in the Hungarian part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. This extended as far the northern suburbs of Belgrade, and covered a large part of today's Serbia.

Birth records from this era are usually still available in churches or archives, so a huge number of Serbian people do have the right papers to qualify. If they can speak Hungarian well enough. (I think false documents are more a problem with Romania and Ukraine, where Hungarian territory was less extensive and the archives not so reliable.)

Actually, for all the trouble and hassle involved, most people apparently succeed eventually: it all seems to come down to your diligence and perseverance. So in that sense, there is a silver lining in all the reports on that forum.

(Of course, that we are all spending are time online instead of studying is not encouraging.)

@zif

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I do realize there's no requirement to be ethnically Hungarian or to have Hungarian speaking ancestors. and that much of Serbia was in the Kingdom of Hungary and many Serbs do qualify. I didn't mean they're only looking for people who are ethnically Hungarian. What I was trying to say is that, from what I've been told, there's concern about the incentives in non-EU countries and that the language standards can be stiffer in Serbia (and some other places) for that reason. No idea if that information is accurate.

But right now, anything to avoid translating more Hungarian documents today!

futpar wrote:

....I'm generally good at languages but Hungarian vocabulary might as well be Klingon.

I've been here/involved 22+ years and I suspect I know more Klingon and Dothraki  than Hungarian*! 

I can only wish you all "Qapla!".


* I have made an effort this past 6 months and had some free time and I know more Hungarian words than I did but my grammar is zero.

Fluffy, you gave me a great laugh, qatlho' !

Same with me, know allot of words in Hungarian but making a sentence is another matter.
I find it is sometimes better to just not even try because I make a mess of it.

futpar wrote:

Fluffy, you gave me a great laugh, qatlho' !

I had to look that up - says it's not a phrase used by Klingons.

I am  still awaiting an opportunity to use: "lupDujHomwIj luteb gharghmey".

Thank you, Marilyn, that makes me feel much better coming from someone with your extensive experience.

We love our Marilyn.  A trooper. Want to take you for coffee in Budapest in a few weeks!  Some days I am so quick with the language and other days my vocabulary and order are out of whack.  I am determined to flow in my speech. Never a native but will know what I have learned very well. We all need to hack the language first to know what the important vocabulary and grammar is. It will come together.  I found Renata at Hungariansolutions to be the BEST teacher yet.  She makes learning passionate and you become addicted to knowing more.

Fluffy, I think I broke something laughing at that!

Not only did you manage to find a use for that phrase -- Klingons have craft full of weird animals, that makes perfect sense if you're a Klingon -- but you did it in a discussion about SPEAKING HUNGARIAN!!!!

Game, set and match, Fluffy!

I think you just retired the trophy.

Which must be, of course, a bronzed hovercraft full of eels.

futpar wrote:

....I think you just retired the trophy.

Which must be, of course, a bronzed hovercraft full of eels.

Strangely enough, I don't have a hovercraft.    Not yet anyway.

Mrs Fluffy and I missed the last hovercraft service between Calais (France) and Dover (UK).  We were all booked for it but bad weather meant the service was cancelled and we had to go on the ferry.  and then the service was stopped permanently.

No-one these days has a chance to gild their commercial hovercraft with eels and that's a shame. 

The only other hovercraft I know operating commercially is (was) in Sierra Leone.

I'll stop now....

I'll bet your Klingon alter ego has a hovercraft, and it's full of eels who speak Hungarian.

Now I'll stop, too.

I think you could be right.  Qapla indeed in a galaxy far far away.

Blessed be the eel filled hovercraft peoples of the world.

"A légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal"

Arghh...didn't stop.  I'll get my coat.