WHAT IS THE SALARY I SHOULD ASK FOR A DATA&ANALYTICS MANAGER POSITION

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How much are you paid in Instanbul?  Try to take no less.

Regardless of salary wants or needs... As a foreigner get used to being over looked in favour of a local who will be cheaper.

Rightly so that companies should where possible use Vietnamese for their staffing needs.

Currently virus concerns are slowing down a lot of hiring going on.

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Regardless of salary wants or needs... As a foreigner get used to being over looked in favour of a local who will be cheaper.

Rightly so that companies should where possible use Vietnamese for their staffing needs.

Currently virus concerns are slowing down a lot of hiring going on.

I think she has been offered the job, not looking for a job.

Being offered is a good sign... Now getting greedy with salary could be the decider.

Back in 2017 when I came here the second time I attended a last minute interview. Job was as good as mine... Then comes salary question. Ask too much and they will hire cheaper local... Ask too little and you won't be able to afford to live here.

At the time I wasn't quite ready to make the move and hadn't had time to look at salaries here comparable to the position.

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Being offered is a good sign... Now getting greedy with salary could be the decider.

Back in 2017 when I came here the second time I attended a last minute interview. Job was as good as mine... Then comes salary question. Ask too much and they will hire cheaper local... Ask too little and you won't be able to afford to live here.

At the time I wasn't quite ready to make the move and hadn't had time to look at salaries here comparable to the position.

I am old school but in my opinion "being offered" (having a firm offer of employment) & then having to state your expected salary is a little bit contrary.
Usually when I made a firm offer of employment to someone the salary negotiations (if any) were completed. The request for expected salary usually came at the CV request stage or possibly at the interview stage, where there might be a short list of say 5 selected candidates but no firm offer of employment given until all candidates had been interviewed.

goodolboy wrote:

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Being offered is a good sign... Now getting greedy with salary could be the decider.

Back in 2017 when I came here the second time I attended a last minute interview. Job was as good as mine... Then comes salary question. Ask too much and they will hire cheaper local... Ask too little and you won't be able to afford to live here.

At the time I wasn't quite ready to make the move and hadn't had time to look at salaries here comparable to the position.

I am old school but in my opinion "being offered" (having a firm offer of employment) & then having to state your expected salary is a little bit contrary.
Usually when I made a firm offer of employment to someone the salary negotiations (if any) were completed. The request for expected salary usually came at the CV request stage or possibly at the interview stage, where there might be a short list of say 5 selected candidates but no firm offer of employment given until all candidates had been interviewed.

From what my wife has told me, companies dont devulge the salary till right at the end of the process. The job she has now, she was interviewed 4 times. I kept asking her what if you get to the acceptance stage and the salary is low. She said they dont devulge the salary till the last minute, very different to where I come from.

colinoscapee wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Being offered is a good sign... Now getting greedy with salary could be the decider.

Back in 2017 when I came here the second time I attended a last minute interview. Job was as good as mine... Then comes salary question. Ask too much and they will hire cheaper local... Ask too little and you won't be able to afford to live here.

At the time I wasn't quite ready to make the move and hadn't had time to look at salaries here comparable to the position.

I am old school but in my opinion "being offered" (having a firm offer of employment) & then having to state your expected salary is a little bit contrary.
Usually when I made a firm offer of employment to someone the salary negotiations (if any) were completed. The request for expected salary usually came at the CV request stage or possibly at the interview stage, where there might be a short list of say 5 selected candidates but no firm offer of employment given until all candidates had been interviewed.

From what my wife has told me, companies dont devulge the salary till right at the end of the process. The job she has now, she was interviewed 4 times. I kept asking her what if you get to the acceptance stage and the salary is low. She said they dont devulge the salary till the last minute, very different to where I come from.

Well her post was..... she has a job offer from a global agency in a managerial position & sorry but I for one find it hard to believe a global agency would be making a firm offer of employment to a manager & then asking the candidate.........oh & by the way what salary do you expect to make?
Anyways none of us so far me included have been in a position to give her an answer to her post.
Took the advice of a previous poster & checked the job description & salary expected in the USA & it was 85k usd pa. So in Vietnam as an expat in a high powered position like that she should be in a position to ask for at least 100,000,000 VND a month, my best guesstimate that is!!!

goodolboy wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

I am old school but in my opinion "being offered" (having a firm offer of employment) & then having to state your expected salary is a little bit contrary.
Usually when I made a firm offer of employment to someone the salary negotiations (if any) were completed. The request for expected salary usually came at the CV request stage or possibly at the interview stage, where there might be a short list of say 5 selected candidates but no firm offer of employment given until all candidates had been interviewed.

From what my wife has told me, companies dont devulge the salary till right at the end of the process. The job she has now, she was interviewed 4 times. I kept asking her what if you get to the acceptance stage and the salary is low. She said they dont devulge the salary till the last minute, very different to where I come from.

Well her post was..... she has a job offer from a global agency in a managerial position & sorry but I for one find it hard to believe a global agency would be making a firm offer of employment to a manager & then asking the candidate.........oh & by the way what salary do you expect to make?
Anyways none of us so far me included have been in a position to give her an answer to her post.
Took the advice of a previous poster & checked the job description & salary expected in the USA & it was 85k usd pa. So in Vietnam as an expat in a high powered position like that she should be in a position to ask for at least 100,000,000 VND a month, my best guesstimate that is!!!

It does seem strange, depends where the company is operating from.

My wife is the HR executive of an international company, at the final interview she was asked what salary she expected, it does happen.

goodolboy wrote:

Well her post was..... she has a job offer from a global agency in a managerial position & sorry but I for one find it hard to believe a global agency would be making a firm offer of employment to a manager & then asking the candidate.........oh &

What "Agencies", recruiter call "offer" is more like a request to apply for a job. An most often, it's not about hiring you for one specific job, but getting your CV and salary expectation and then trying to place you at one of their customers. Best to avoid "agencies" and recruiters and apply directly at companies.

atomheart wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

Well her post was..... she has a job offer from a global agency in a managerial position & sorry but I for one find it hard to believe a global agency would be making a firm offer of employment to a manager & then asking the candidate.........oh &

What "Agencies", recruiter call "offer" is more like a request to apply for a job. An most often, it's not about hiring you for one specific job, but getting your CV and salary expectation and then trying to place you at one of their customers. Best to avoid "agencies" and recruiters and apply directly at companies.

Sounds about right to me, agencies do that all the time.

Agencies are sometimes a little vague with offers. And even then some dodgy agencies offer positions that do not always exist.

Maybe the best way to respond is give them a range.. a high figure which would be the dream salary.. then a lower one but still high enough to live on and save ... But don't make it the bare minimum.

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Agencies are sometimes a little vague with offers. And even then some dodgy agencies offer positions that do not always exist.

Maybe the best way to respond is give them a range.. a high figure which would be the dream salary.. then a lower one but still high enough to live on and save ... But don't make it the bare minimum.

So give her a realistic range or best guesstimate, I am really interested to hear what you think a job like that commands salary wise here. I just looked google & then made a guess at 100mil vnd a month, might be thats too little. That's really the original question asked.

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Maybe the best way to respond is give them a range..

Maybe the best way to respont is to ask them for a range, assuming they're the one that contacted OP first, the way I described in my previous comment... (The other way, OP applying and getting to salary negotiation phase without having any info on salaries would not have been very smart.)

Isn't there a pdf booklet by a firm called Adeco or something similar that lists salaries for both management and technical occupations in Vietnam?  Maybe someone can find that link.

Edit:  The firm is called Adecco, with a double "c".  Here is the latest booklet:  https://adecco.com.vn//uploads/Adecco-V … e-2020.pdf  You can use their general site to obtain other HR services.  (Not promoting them but the booklet is pretty good.)

atomheart wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

Well her post was..... she has a job offer from a global agency in a managerial position & sorry but I for one find it hard to believe a global agency would be making a firm offer of employment to a manager & then asking the candidate.........oh &

What "Agencies", recruiter call "offer" is more like a request to apply for a job. An most often, it's not about hiring you for one specific job, but getting your CV and salary expectation and then trying to place you at one of their customers. Best to avoid "agencies" and recruiters and apply directly at companies.

I am in a similar difficult situation as mentioned by the OP. The only difference (though major) being I am not yet offered the position. Finished one (only) round of discussions with the agency (Korn Ferry) and two rounds with the Organisation (the largest pre-engineered building manufacturer in Asia-Pacific, who have their manufacturing facilities in VN catering to entire SEA). The position is second in command for the SEA operations.

I have already been sounded that I have been shortlisted for the final round (maximum three candidates) and a decision will be taken then including the remuneration. Position is Head - Business Development & Contract Management for SEA operations operating from HCMC and reporting to the CEO. Since the Organisation has major presence in India and CEO is stationed here, they will be choosing a candidate only from India. If not for the pandemic, they would have already closed the position as they wanted the selected candidate to resume from September.

The agency has sounded that the range will be USD 70K-80K per annum all inclusive for 20-25 years experience. I have 30+ years experience including close to 10 years in SEA (Bangkok - sometime back). I have observed in the past that what the company decides eventually is off (higher side) what the agency pencils in their post and initial discussions. If selected, I intend to move with my wife and 10 year old kid. We have an upper middle class standard of living in India.

I tried various permutations and combinations in Google with little success. Any guidance shall be highly appreciated.

andidips:  Has it occurred to you that you have essentially revealed your identity to anyone from either the agency or the employer who might read your post?  Would that be a problem?

They will pay as low as possible.
Doesnt mention position, but a lot od directors positions here dont pay that much

THIGV wrote:

Isn't there a pdf booklet by a firm called Adeco or something similar that lists salaries for both management and technical occupations in Vietnam?  Maybe someone can find that link.

Edit:  The firm is called Adecco, with a double "c".  Here is the latest booklet:  https://adecco.com.vn//uploads/Adecco-V … e-2020.pdf  You can use their general site to obtain other HR services.  (Not promoting them but the booklet is pretty good.)

Wouldnt trust those figures... have seen what they post and they are nothing like those in the pdf

THIGV wrote:

andidips:  Has it occurred to you that you have essentially revealed your identity to anyone from either the agency or the employer who might read your post?  Would that be a problem?

I do not think it should be a problem. Rather, both the entities should take it as "this guy is keen on the assignment" and not "one of the assignments" he is scouting out for. It is quite normal in India for candidates to get in touch with present employees at the prospective company and dig out details of work culture, hierarchy, salary structure, etc. If the position would have been in India, I would have already been aware of all the details.

Jlgarbutt wrote:

They will pay as low as possible.
Doesnt mention position, but a lot od directors positions here dont pay that much

In India what I have seen and experienced is the agency will quote a figure in their post only after they receive a written brief from the company on job description, desired/preferred/required candidate profile, salary package, etc. Most of the times, the final package agreed between the company and candidate is much higher than what was mentioned in the post. A low figure in the post necessarily ends up with the right candidates giving the opportunity a miss. In well managed and professionally run engineering companies in India, USD 50K - 60K per year is a normal for somebody who has 25 years experience.

andidips wrote:

atomheart wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

Well her post was..... she has a job offer from a global agency in a managerial position & sorry but I for one find it hard to believe a global agency would be making a firm offer of employment to a manager & then asking the candidate.........oh &

What "Agencies", recruiter call "offer" is more like a request to apply for a job. An most often, it's not about hiring you for one specific job, but getting your CV and salary expectation and then trying to place you at one of their customers. Best to avoid "agencies" and recruiters and apply directly at companies.

I am in a similar difficult situation as mentioned by the OP. The only difference (though major) being I am not yet offered the position. Finished one (only) round of discussions with the agency (Korn Ferry) and two rounds with the Organisation (the largest pre-engineered building manufacturer in Asia-Pacific, who have their manufacturing facilities in VN catering to entire SEA). The position is second in command for the SEA operations.

I have already been sounded that I have been shortlisted for the final round (maximum three candidates) and a decision will be taken then including the remuneration. Position is Head - Business Development & Contract Management for SEA operations operating from HCMC and reporting to the CEO. Since the Organisation has major presence in India and CEO is stationed here, they will be choosing a candidate only from India. If not for the pandemic, they would have already closed the position as they wanted the selected candidate to resume from September.
.

Dont sell yourself short for that position, go for 150,000usd PA, plus car & driver, plus house plus living & schooling expenses, 2 trips a year back to home country for all family members, full BUPA health cover for you & family minimum!!!

Agencies here from experience are not that reliable, you have to remember half the people at least won't be that clued up on their own job let alone work professionally as a recruiter.

In a similar thread, I have lost count of the number of people recently see or know my working background and say "I just get this job" can you teach me how to do sales or marketing or logistics or some other position. It appears recruiter at companies often give people a job even if they have no experience... Because that person is low salary demand.

You should ask Vietnam to open the border.

Eh ?

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Agencies here from experience are not that reliable, you have to remember half the people at least won't be that clued up on their own job let alone work professionally as a recruiter.

In a similar thread, I have lost count of the number of people recently see or know my working background and say "I just get this job" can you teach me how to do sales or marketing or logistics or some other position. It appears recruiter at companies often give people a job even if they have no experience... Because that person is low salary demand.

This assignment has reached a stage where pending activities are face to face with the CEO  and then one of the three candidates ticked by the CEO meets the Human Resource Department for finalizing the package. Invariably a mutually acceptable arrangement is worked out in that meeting. My past experience is the organisation tends to loosen their strings more than the adjustments candidate has to make as they would not like to let go of someone who has ticked most of their requirement boxes during the selection process.

goodolboy wrote:

andidips wrote:

atomheart wrote:

What "Agencies", recruiter call "offer" is more like a request to apply for a job. An most often, it's not about hiring you for one specific job, but getting your CV and salary expectation and then trying to place you at one of their customers. Best to avoid "agencies" and recruiters and apply directly at companies.

I am in a similar difficult situation as mentioned by the OP. The only difference (though major) being I am not yet offered the position. Finished one (only) round of discussions with the agency (Korn Ferry) and two rounds with the Organisation (the largest pre-engineered building manufacturer in Asia-Pacific, who have their manufacturing facilities in VN catering to entire SEA). The position is second in command for the SEA operations.

I have already been sounded that I have been shortlisted for the final round (maximum three candidates) and a decision will be taken then including the remuneration. Position is Head - Business Development & Contract Management for SEA operations operating from HCMC and reporting to the CEO. Since the Organisation has major presence in India and CEO is stationed here, they will be choosing a candidate only from India. If not for the pandemic, they would have already closed the position as they wanted the selected candidate to resume from September.
.

Dont sell yourself short for that position, go for 150,000usd PA, plus car & driver, plus house plus living & schooling expenses, 2 trips a year back to home country for all family members, full BUPA health cover for you & family minimum!!!

Thank you very much for your note. I have already indicated to the prospective employer USD 120,000 PA plus house and schooling expenses as expectation during last discussions. One round trip a year and health cover for the full family is always offered extra. In spite of a far higher figure as expectation compared to what was offered in post and still being considered for the final interview, looks like they have some interest !!! Anyway, considering the COVID situation in India, I doubt whether the Vietnamese government will allow entry to an Indian citizen in the next six months.