Coast location recommendation

Sibylleanne wrote:

I am planning to spend 2-3 months in Ecuador end of 2019, Olón, Puerto Lopez, Crucita or San Clemente.
My  intention is to retire there if things go on well.... I am a single woman, and I speak fluently Spanish.
Any recommendation about the location ? Definitely not Manta or Salinas, or such places.
I love swimming, need sun and not too much rain.

Dear Sibylle Anne,

There are so many microclimates on the coast that you will probably have to do boots-on-the-ground investigación to figure out the climate angle.  Altitude (think cliffs) and proximity to the ocean factor in here.

A small and picturesque fishing village, Puerto López, had infamous problems pertaining to adequate water -- which apparently was delivered by truck, not a tap.  So consider finding out about that before doing a month's rental there.

By avoiding the bigger cities on the coast, one potentially opens herself up to lack of infrastructure .. and challenges in obtaining food supplies involving a lot of bus riding and schlepping.

cccmedia

Thank you 😄

I am located  in Tonsupa, Province of Esmeraldas in Ecuador.
To summarize, this is a developing peaceful touristic town preserving the local ambience, invaded by tourists only during long weekends.
Access to local shops and markets by a 10 min. bus ride. in the closest Main Town Atacames, and, for more City Life activities, by 30 min. to The City of Esmeraldas.
No expats communities,
I'm into my fourth year.
MM

Sibylle Anne,

What cccmedia said. For example, Olón/Montañita get lots of rain. Hence the lush/tropical feel. Tonsupa/Atacames was suggested as an option, but, again, lots of rain and the highest per capita crime Province in all of Ecuador. Bottom line ... boots on the ground exploration and discovery is all I can suggest. The entire coast has a rainy season ... just varies throughout the year. You will avoid rain, but not the clouds, only in the Salinas region. But you eliminated Salinas and Manta, the latter being the only true "city" along the coast and, even then, I use that word loosely.

Have you considered a place like Santa Marta, Colombia? Dry. Limited rain. Still quiet and peaceful, but with amenities easy driving distance. Cost of living likely lower than pretty much anywhere on the Ecuador coast. Just a thought.

Even if you love golf you should avoid a certain coastal project called Las Olas.

HGQ2112 wrote:

Sibylle Anne,

What cccmedia said. For example, Olón/Montañita get lots of rain. Hence the lush/tropical feel. Tonsupa/Atacames was suggested as an option, but, again, lots of rain and the highest per capita crime Province in all of Ecuador. Bottom line ... boots on the ground exploration and discovery is all I can suggest. The entire coast has a rainy season ... just varies throughout the year. You will avoid rain, but not the clouds, only in the Salinas region. But you eliminated Salinas and Manta, the latter being the only true "city" along the coast and, even then, I use that word loosely.

Have you considered a place like Santa Marta, Colombia? Dry. Limited rain. Still quiet and peaceful, but with amenities easy driving distance. Cost of living likely lower than pretty much anywhere on the Ecuador coast. Just a thought.

The problem is, in Colombia after 183 days you are considered a tax resident and are taxed on retirement income. I am currently on the Ecuadorian coast looking at property for this reason. We will keep our apartment in Colombia but plan to be in country less than 6 months. I have been in Ecuador now for 3 months and today I am going to Manta for a 90 day extension. Unfortunately all of land oceanfront is all gringo priced. (at least I have looked at) The locals all know what the last oceanfront property sold for and lots and homes are priced accordingly. People with more money than brains buying property at asking price for years have driven some areas up to USA prices. There are some good deals to be had if your willing to stay 1 or 2 streets off the ocean. I would think most, even if you have a car, would want within 1 hour of a bigger city. Who wants a 2 hr + trip to the city for a day of excitement or to buy things other than the basic staples that little tiendas have. I am trying to limit my search for now to 1 hour either side of manta and 1 hour either side of Salinas.

Thank you for your replies.

What about San Clemente, Crucita or Ballenita ? Some opinions about those places ?

This post and my ensuing post below are a response, in particular, to NHL Fan's interest in buying property in the Manta area.  Note, though, that this guidance is applicable to most or all Expats arriving in Ecuador and considering whether to buy on the oceanfront of Ecuador.

A.  Don't buy if you can rent what you want.

B.  Don't even consider buying until you have spent a year in the target location.  If you visit one of the many microclimates, a few weeks there will not necessarily tell you much about the year-round climatic changes in the area.  Also, you might enjoy Salinas in January, finding a vibrant beach community drenched in the sun .. only to find out that it's more like a cloudy ghost town in the long off-season of June to November with empty beaches and low energy.

C.  Do not allow any sellers to pressure you to buy into a supposed must-act-now, deal-of-a-lifetime.  Especially avoid high-rise pre-construction 'opportunities'.  The Las Olas project that Mugtech warned against .. is/was a pre-construction golf community that has disappointed investors for a decade.

cccmedia

Top Reasons Not to Buy on the Ecuador Oceanfront
                                         (January 2019)

5.  Gringo pricing on the oceanfront.  See NHL Fan's post above for more on this one.  As for getting a price break for buying a block or two inland from the ocean, you get what you pay for.  An existing or future building could block the ocean breezes to your bargain-property, greatly reducing the climatic benefit of being near the breezes.

4.  You would be buying on the international Ring of Fire.  High-rise condo owners in Bahía de Caráquez (kah-RAH-kez) appeared to have escaped the worst earthquakes of 2016 with their condo buildings still standing.  Then, inspectors came in and found cracks in the walls that rendered many of the condos uninhabitable.  Yes, building codes may have changed since then .. but that's not a sufficient protection for potential new buyers in Ecuador.

3.  If you buy at Gringo prices or even somewhat below, and later decide you need/want to sell, you may be facing a years-long resale process.  One more gran terremoto anywhere on the coast .. and the prices could be depressed (again) indefinitely.

2.  Even if you do a resale, Ecuador will slap at least a five percent tax on the cash proceeds if you attempt to wire the proceeds out of Ecuador.  That's in addition to any capital-gains tax.

And the #1 reason not to buy on the Ecuador oceanfront...

1.  You don't need to!  You can rent your home right there .. change locations after a lease-period .. and leave the headaches to the property owners.

To NHLFAN and a comment on one of his observations. Comment first. NHLFAN is correct, spend 181 days or more in Colombia and income is taxable. One of the things my firm does is create LEGAL vehicles to overcome this challenge. Still, doesn't change the fact that on balance, with the buying power offered by the strong US$ vs. the Colombian Peso (COP), you currently get more for your money in Colombian real estate vs. Ecuadorian real estate.

Secondly, NHLFAN, where on the Ecuadorian coast are you looking? I have options priced all over the map ... well ... candidly ... all over the map EXCEPT dirt cheap. Then again, as Warren Buffet so succinctly put it ... "Price is what you pay, value is what you get." Caveat Emptor.

Hector

HGQ2112 wrote:

...spend 181 days or more in Colombia and income is taxable. One of the things my firm does...Caveat Emptor.

Close, but no cigar.  Your firm needs to look at the law which states you are considered a tax resident of Colombia, and your world-wide income may be subject to taxation, if and when you spend more than 183 days cumulative in Colombia in any 365 day period.

https://www.gerencie.com/residencia-par … n_Colombia

Attorneys there are quoting 181 days as a safety zone "couple of days". Either way, an extra 2 days doesn't change that NFLFAN's post accurately pointed out one of the few flaws to living in Colombia. However, if you structure your business correctly ... LEGALLY .. you don't have to face the brunt of this challenge.

One more reason not to buy on the coast is when they have another big earth quake and they will. If you are unlucky enough to be in your home and survive. You will be like all the people now from the 2016 earth quake that think there unit is still worth what they paid for it and won't drop there price. You also won't come and use it any more due to your fear of another earth quake so you end up paying and paying for a unit that just falls apart due to the sea air and lack of use. It can cause what was suppose to be a dream and paradise to become your nightmare in more ways than one. Just rent and save yourself a lot of headaches. I was going to buy but it just isn't worth all the problems and expense.  But good luck if you want to try it.

Could you give me the addresses, I want to get a good deal on rent. LOL

Well, earthquakes are indigenous to Ecuador ... all of Ecuador. Nothing special about the coast. Actually, the most devastating and most casualty causing earthquakes have been in Ecuador's interior, not the coast. Also, there is a stark difference in earthquake occurance between Ecuador's more northern Coast, say as defined by Bahia de Caraquez, and Ecuador's more southern coast, as defined by say ... Salinas. The former has a high incidence of recorded earthquakes, while the southern coast hardly ever gets touched by them. So, it's all a proper information and risk/reward analysis. Everywhere in the world has its risks and its rewards. The successful city of San Francisco sure does ... and Ecuador's coat is also not exempted from some risk. If one is concerned about quakes and wants Ecuador oceanfront, then consider the Salinas region. Outside of Cartagena, though, Colombia offers better relative coastal value.

HGQ2112 wrote:

NHLFAN is correct, spend 181 days or more in Colombia and income is taxable. One of the things my firm does is create LEGAL vehicles to overcome this challenge....

Hector

Dear Hector,

Please tell us more.

Many Expats and prospective Expats considering Colombia versus Ecuador would be eager to know more about this aspect.

cccmedia

Lol ... short version? Strong US$ vs. weak Colombian Peso (COP) -- near all  time lows  for the COP vs. the US$ -- means real estate bargains galore, if you know where to shop in Colombia. Stable government. Diverse economy. More of everything than Ecuador, for like-to-like comparisons (e.g., Salinas vs. Santa Marta; Quito vs. Bogotá; Cuenca vs. Medellín; Cotacachi vs. Pereira or Manizales). In Ecuador, government mentality seems to be "How can we make matters more difficult and complicated"? In Colombia, government attitude is mostly, "How can we facilitate things for you, in our country"? Everything just night and day difference.

Hector,

Thanks for elaborating.

Did I read you correctly in your prior post that your company assists Expats in avoiding income tax in Colombia even if they are considered tax residents because of being in the country more than 180-some days out of any 365?

Can you give us more of an idea of what/how you can assist in legal tax avoidance for Expat tax residents?

cccmedia

HGQ2112 wrote:

In Ecuador, government mentality seems to be "How can we make matters more difficult and complicated"? In Colombia, government attitude is mostly, "How can we facilitate things for you, in our country"? Everything just night and day difference.

This reminds me of a member (cowboy something) who believed there was some kind of conspiracy that prevented him from obtaining residency. 

In Ecuador, we (individual expats) are nothing but a mere number on paperwork , a mere formality. So, from my perspective I've never experienced any kind of “complications.”

I have been to Columbia. My wife can't take the hot temps with high humid conditions. What about the high crime over the years also? Has that changed lately?

fiege1224, in general Colombia's climate is about the same as Ecuador's - and not only are the high and low temperatures mostly dependent on the altitude you are at - low, coastal areas tend to be hot and humid, higher altitudes colder but may also be humid because of rain - but in both countries there are areas of  "micro-climates" that at least somewhat defy the normal rules of weather, or are at odds with surrounding areas.

But in general, if you like hot, go low.  And if you prefer cooler, go higher.

I could elaborate, but then I'd have to kill all of you ... lol. Our consulting services is part of what we get paid for, but in short, it involves the right type of corporate structure and one has to be willing to surrender a bit of control, or perceived control, of one's company. It's all very legal, if set up properly. You are not circumventing the laws of Colombia, you are merely complying with them to the absolute letter of the law.

vsimple wrote:

HGQ2112 wrote:

In Ecuador, government mentality seems to be "How can we make matters more difficult and complicated"? In Colombia, government attitude is mostly, "How can we facilitate things for you, in our country"? Everything just night and day difference.

This reminds me of a member (cowboy something) who believed there was some kind of conspiracy that prevented him from obtaining residency. 

In Ecuador, we (individual expats) are nothing but a mere number on paperwork , a mere formality. So, from my perspective I've never experienced any kind of “complications.”

Yeah ... that whole "mere number" ... as opposed to human touch concept. Colombia offers the latter ... Ecuador mostly the former. It's big world out there ... but getting smaller every day. Countries inviting tourism, capital and residents need to remember that.

fiege1224 wrote:

I have been to Columbia. My wife can't take the hot temps with high humid conditions. What about the high crime over the years also? Has that changed lately?

Fiege 1224,

Yeah ... crime down dramatically from a decade ago. Lol, smh ... folks still talk about Colombia like it is still the wild west days of Pablo. Dude has been buried for almost 30 years, now. As for climate, someone else already addressed perfectly. Colombia has every type of weather imaginable, including the famed and true "Land of Eternal Spring", Medellín. No high humidity there and seldom "hot".

The car bomb in Bogota recently that killed many was nothing? Isn't that what was happening on a daily basis in the past? In Colombia old habits die slowly if at all. Compare that to Ecuador's petty crime. Yes the dollar goes further in Medellin and Bogota but my safety comes first.

norviato1 wrote:

The car bomb in Bogota recently that killed many was nothing? Isn't that what was happening on a daily basis in the past? In Colombia old habits die slowly if at all. Compare that to Ecuador's petty crime. Yes the dollar goes further in Medellin and Bogota but my safety comes first.

I never said the car bomb was ... "nothing". That would be both silly and irresponsible. It is the even worse hyperbole that comes after that statement which is what I accurately referenced and you distorted. No! Car ... bombs ... NEVER ... happened ... daily ... or even ALMOST daily in Colombia. Never! More happened during The Troubles in Ireland than in Colombia. They DID happen ... occasionally ... to much fanfare, hence the intent of all terrorism. Draw massive attention with a few limited acts. However, how the past has anything to do with the peaceful present -- one lone act noted -- or Colombia's infinitely brighter future than the current Ecuador, at least as it is now being managed, is what totally escapes me.

You say a lot and nothing at the same time. Keep convincing yourself that Colombia is a better deal than Ecuador. When the car bombs become more frequent again, you might change your tune.
Ecuador for a long time was in between two trouble spots, Peru on the south with the sendero luminoso and the Colombian guerrillas to the north. Ecuador historically has been peaceful in comparison with its neighbors. You guys are always chasing a place where your dollars go further, the rest is not too important. My opinion of course. Do whatever you want. I'm just expressing my views as an Ecuadorean.

The troubles in Ireland? Funny! Pablo Escobar the dude that's buried 30 years paralyzed the entire nation. Ask Colombians abroad how much they want to return to their beloved country, not many. There's tons of YouTube videos on the subject, the complaint is almost always the same. Colombia became a violent nation back when Rojas Pinilla was leader of a military junta and it hasn't been the same since then. Something to do with inequality and the intransigence of government. You paint a rosy picture because you're a businessman of sorts. Naturally you want to lure everyone to paradise, thanks but no thanks. Again my opinion and if anyone doubts my words they can look them up. Fact check lol

This was the beginning of Colombia's “ troubles”

Gustavo Rojas Pinilla (12 March 1900 – 17 January 1975) was the 19th President of Colombia from June 1953 to May 1957. An Army General, he mounted a successful coup d'état against the incumbent President, Laureano Gómez Castro (1889—1965), imposing martial law and establishing a dictatorship-style government in Colombia.

norviato1 wrote:

You guys are always chasing a place where your dollars go further, the rest is not too important.

Don't paint us all with the same brush, por favor. It's true there are people like you mention, but there are also expats who value a more tranquil society over cheaper prices. I have colombian friends from cali, bogotá, and popayán who live in Quito and they all say that Colombia is more dangerous than Ecuador.