June 11 2017

Que Bonita Bandera!

I'll be watching for the election results.   Let's hope for a large voter turnout so that whatever the outcome, it is a clear majority.   

I will be voting.

A lot of people are at the beach, many said they do not believe in the process that was put together so not voting.

Parade in NY: https://rec-end.gfrcdn.net/images/tn/0/ … d8ad29.jpg

Interesting development, it seems the law for the plebiscite has ruled out a vote recount if the numbers of voters  listed to a particular voting location does not match the numbers of votes casted at that location.

Also the PNP were telling everyone to just show up to vote anywhere they like which is not allowed by law.

also interesting that the PNP party is still posting vote for statehood adverts on the web while the voting is ongoing and the governor showed to the newscasters his ballot with the X for statehood that he casted this morning. Not exactly something that happens in the US.

what's a "collage"?

sorry voting place.

Organized boicot in Caracoles, Lajas: http://content.jwplatform.com/previews/ … J-DQrfBQfj

Reporters are walking to the boats (is shallow, yes walking in the water) to interview them.

If any of you had a chance to go vote, I like to hear how busy were the voting places.

If you decide on going to the beach, you may be interested in this: https://youtu.be/QCv1MeL0Cyo

Nice transport and good exercise.

Wife and I may get a couple, nice to get to hidden coves and other out of the way places.

Sitka wrote:

I'll be watching for the election results.   Let's hope for a large voter turnout so that whatever the outcome, it is a clear majority.   

How are you following it?

Seems like there is very low participation. Abstract in Spanish and I will translate below:

A las 11:40 am, la escuela Pedro J. Quendo Rodríguez, en Carolina, que cuenta con una lista de entre 1003 y 1400 votantes solo habían participado del evento 150 personas. De igual forma para las 12:05 pm en la escuela Angel P. Millan de ese mismo municipio solo habían participado 350 personas, de los 3,180 (10.8%) registrados para votar en ese distrito.

By 11:40 am at school Pedro J. Quento Rodriguez in Carolina with a voting list of 1003 to 1400 voters only 150 people have come to voter. ** Please remember that voting started at 8 am.

In the same way by 12:05 at Angel P. Millan school also of the same municipality only 350 people had shown to vote out of a list of 3,180 registered voters.

Those are very low numbers when you consider that voting started at 8 am and will last until 3 pm. (any in line at 3 pm will still get to vote but no other will be allowed to join the line).

In San Juan it also shows low participation (Spanish then English)

La Academia Perpetuo Socorro, que cuenta con una participación de 3,222 votantes registrados, solo recibió unos 729 (22%)  --- In the Academia Perpetuo Socorro only 729 show up to vote out of 3,222 registered voters.

Mientras que la escuela Madame Luchetti, con un registro de 1,200 votantes solo recibió 337 (28%). -- While Madame Luchetti only received 337 voters out of 1,200.

Por su parte la escuela Luis Muñoz Rivera en Santuce obtuvo unos 223 (15.2%) votos de 1,464 personas registradas. -- In Santurce at Luis Munus Rivera school only 223 voters show up out of 1,464 registered voters.

Many others reports like that, this is getting long so not reporting the numbers. But any way these are very low numbers for voting participation.

My property manager isn't voting because her mom is in critical condition at the hospital and she's staying there with her. Can Puerto Ricans vote early or by absentee?

Yes if they make preparations ahead of time. Also people in hospitals, hospices and the infirm at home.

early reports claim strong support for statehood, but very low turnout.

Yes 97% statehood with 20-22% turn out, just the statehood party voting. The other 2 parties boicot the vote.

hmm...that leaves the opposition in a position to claim that the vote was invalid and a waste of tax money to conduct the election in the first place.

and the media is blasting the Rivera parade in NYC.  It  looks bad to many watching tv.

Well, with such low voter turn  out, the entire statehood movement now seems DOA to me.   Congress will find it easy to say / think that if only 22% of the population is interested in voting on the matter, general support for statehood is weak.   They don't even need to consider or debate the political impact on the congress and electoral college.

Sitka wrote:

Well, with such low voter turn  out, the entire statehood movement now seems DOA to me.   Congress will find it easy to say / think that if only 22% of the population is interested in voting on the matter, general support for statehood is weak.   They don't even need to consider or debate the political impact on the congress and electoral college.

That is assuming that congress wanted to consider the issue and where later disappointed by the turnout.

Unfortunately only those that vote count, that is the system. In the US they never consider those that did not vote or that made a protest mark on the ballot by living it blank, writing their candidate / option. Based on standard rules in the US technically statehood won by a 97% of the votes casted. As I understand (correct me if I am wrong) Alaska and Hawaii statehood vote turn out was very low. The vote was 23% of the PR registered voters. That means that 77% of the voters did not vote and will end up having to live with with the desire of 23% if congress decides on granting the statehood (very, long shot that will happen). In other countries situations like these have resulted in major upheaval and violence. Not likely in PR, we tend to just take it even if royally screwed.

The non-participating parties took a big risk with the boycott, now we need to wait and see what will happen.

In my personal opinion, important votes like this should only be counted if at least 60% of the population voted and the winning option received 60% of the votes, but I do not make the rules.

Voter apathy is very dangerous.

I don't get it. There was protests? I just read an article and saw a video where the ones who want independence were burning the US flag. Why wouldn't they go out and vote and have their voice be heard? It's like a child throwing a tantrum they didn't get ice cream but didn't say they wanted ice cream.

Justpeachyy wrote:

I don't get it. There was protests? I just read an article and saw a video where the ones who want independence were burning the US flag. Why wouldn't they go out and vote and have their voice be heard? It's like a child throwing a tantrum they didn't get ice cream but didn't say they wanted ice cream.

The decision to hold the plebiscite and the law that supports it was passed along party lines. The PNP is in control of the governor chair and both houses. The language and design of the ballot was also selected by the ruling party, all changes that were submitted by all other parties were not accepted either so the whole thing had zero support from the other parties. As such they declared a boycott and some of the parties also declared a protest.

Also the independence party does not want to be associated with the US or US laws, under their vision the US would be just another country that they do business with from time to time. They also are not interested in being US Citizens.

well, it just shows to go ya... the more things change, the more they remain the same.   Looks to me that the opposition won the battle by just staying home and encouraging people to not vote.   

And the news commentators today on CNN and FOX blasting the PR parade in NYC for  putting a convicted terrorist at the front -- makes for a poor public reflection on PR.

Sitka wrote:

And the news commentators today on CNN and FOX blasting the PR parade in NYC for  putting a convicted terrorist at the front -- makes for a poor public reflection on PR.

Personal opinion mostly, the man was never convicted of terrorist acts and he served his time. You have the same type of issue with child molesters, after serving their time they remain not part of the society even when they served their time.

Other members of the same organization were released 10 or more years ago, and nobody is raising hell about their participation in the society, it just seems to be mostly centered on Oscar for some reason that I can not understand. He was a member but not the leader of the FANL movement so it is hard to say why he is the target of the protests and attacks.

It is how people view him, they are convinced regardless of proof. To some he is a terrorsist, to others he is being compared to Mandela. I go with what the FBI was able to prove or not prove in court.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. 

I was not eligible to vote but from what I've read it was rushed for no good reason and unfair to all other parties.  Bad timing as if congress and the current admin would even consider it.  A waste of taxpayer money imho.

Rey,

Maybe it's was because he was associated with a group that bombed gov buildings and a tavern in New York.

https://www.google.com.pr/amp/www.nydai … -1.3238744

"U.S. President Bill Clinton offered López Rivera and 13 other convicted FALN members clemency in 1999, on condition they renounce violence, but López Rivera rejected it." That's from wiki. I doubt those two are opinions.

Guy wasn't completely innocent either. I just hope there isn't a surge in violence and protests on the island. Sure it's a minority, but look at what some of that minority did on May 1st this year.

Most convicts, if they live long enough, will complete their sentence and be released to society due to parole or discharge of sentence.   

Sex offenders are a special case, and generally they must register and their location is tracked after discharge, and in many cases made part of the public record.   You can look them up on line and find out if you have a molester living next door or in your neighborhood.    I think that is good public policy.

Too bad we can't track the robbers, drug dealers,  and violent offenders  that get discharged back into our areas as well.

Most Puerto Ricans I've talked to are in favor of statehood. Had the voter turnout been greater, I seriously doubt it would have altered the results.

Justpeachyy wrote:

Rey,

Maybe it's was because he was associated with a group that bombed gov buildings and a tavern in New York.

https://www.google.com.pr/amp/www.nydai … -1.3238744

"U.S. President Bill Clinton offered López Rivera and 13 other convicted FALN members clemency in 1999, on condition they renounce violence, but López Rivera rejected it." That's from wiki. I doubt those two are opinions.

Guy wasn't completely innocent either. I just hope there isn't a surge in violence and protests on the island. Sure it's a minority, but look at what some of that minority did on May 1st this year.

Yes he was associated with an organization that did some bombing (mostly at night) so nobody was to be hurt. However one of the bombing was done in a NY tavern as payback for the murder of 4 independents members in Puerto Rico presumably by the FBI. This was the trigger for the tavern bombing where some people died and several more were hurt. He was in Puerto Rico when that happened.

Some say that because he was part of the organization he was then a terrorist. If we follow that logic all priests would be considered sex offenders.

It is not likely that there will be violence , for 1 he has renounced it, and second he does not hold any office in the independence party.

The only reason I see that some, a very small minority may react that way would be if congress where to give PR statehood with the vote of only 23% of the voting population, still it is not likely but that could be a trigger.

I agree, most of my friends and neighbors in PR seem to favor statehood.  And it may be true that if more people voted, the percentage supporting statehood would hold  -  but we'll never know for sure because they didn't vote.   

Not sure what the next step in this soap opera will be; will the governor push his goals?  Will congress do anything?

Sitka wrote:

I agree, most of my friends and neighbors in PR seem to favor statehood.  And it may be true that if more people voted, the percentage supporting statehood would hold  -  but we'll never know for sure because they didn't vote.   

Not sure what the next step in this soap opera will be; will the governor push his goals?  Will congress do anything?

IMHO congress will do nothing, only about 10 people in congress have express any interest, the vast majority want nothing to do with it, there is a democrat lady in NY saying that she can not support the idea with that low level of votes, imagine what a republican would say. Republicants think that the members of congress selected for PR would be democrats and they are not willing to dilute their power. Some here have said that that is not the case, I say they put money into polls and it is their power so they are likely doing their homework on the issue. Time will tell.

I don't think it's a partisan issue, as much as purely an economic and priority issue.

White House press secretary said that it is up to congress to study / look at the results. Unsure if it is a brush off or what, given that I read a Spanish report that may or may not have the same meaning as what was actually said, people put their own twist. So far I have found no US mainland report about that statement.

There's more to the criminal record than that, Rey. His own protege testified that LR made bombs.

And payback? That's your justification? These communists said at the time they bombed that tavern to kill people who worked in banking.

Not to mention Puerto Rican's resoundingly voted against independence in a referendum in 1967.

These murderers were trained by Cuban intelligence and hope to establish a communist government in PR. Like all totalitarians, they don't give a damn about what Puerto Rican's want.

ReyP wrote:

Justpeachyy wrote:

Rey,

Maybe it's was because he was associated with a group that bombed gov buildings and a tavern in New York.

https://www.google.com.pr/amp/www.nydai … -1.3238744

"U.S. President Bill Clinton offered López Rivera and 13 other convicted FALN members clemency in 1999, on condition they renounce violence, but López Rivera rejected it." That's from wiki. I doubt those two are opinions.

Guy wasn't completely innocent either. I just hope there isn't a surge in violence and protests on the island. Sure it's a minority, but look at what some of that minority did on May 1st this year.

Yes he was associated with an organization that did some bombing (mostly at night) so nobody was to be hurt. However one of the bombing was done in a NY tavern as payback for the murder of 4 independents members in Puerto Rico presumably by the FBI. This was the trigger for the tavern bombing where some people died and several more were hurt. He was in Puerto Rico when that happened.

Some say that because he was part of the organization he was then a terrorist. If we follow that logic all priests would be considered sex offenders.

It is not likely that there will be violence , for 1 he has renounced it, and second he does not hold any office in the independence party.

The only reason I see that some, a very small minority may react that way would be if congress where to give PR statehood with the vote of only 23% of the voting population, still it is not likely but that could be a trigger.

This little charade was pointless. Congress will do nothing (nor should they, IMO).

The payback statement was not mine, the group said it was payback for the murder of the 4 independentistas. What their real motivation is unknown, all we can do is speculate. I make no excuses for them.

Regardless of culpability, he is a terrorist to some and a hero to others, people have made their mind in NY and PR.

He (LR) may have had a "cause" in his mind at the time,  but if you build bombs and set them off in a business as revenge, it most definatly is terrorism.

At any rate, now that the election is over, we will see if anything comes of it - I got my doubts.

Is the EU psychic?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02 … union.html