I read an article in Thanh Niên newspaper today that reminded me that tomorrow the new decree on work permits and residency takes effect. I know it's been discussed before in other threads but I figured I'd make a new one.
Here's some excerpts from the op-ed story.
There are feelings of disappointment and admittedly of some bitterness in particular among a group of foreigners who have been working and living in Vietnam for many, many years.
Thus, in the context of the rapid economic development and the quest for quickly making lots of money, we seem to have become a somewhat old-fashioned species.
With sadness we observe that this kind of development has resulted in a society with a widening gap between the rich and the poor. And with stupefaction we watch how the “nouveaux riches” are shamelessly showing off their wealth, while the very poor - especially in remote and mountainous areas - still do not have enough food to satisfy their daily needs.
In order to obtain our visa without a formal work permit, we can go to a neighboring country; we can go to an obscure law firm; or - as the rumor goes - we can go to some well-connected shops. And then, thanks also to the pragmatism and goodwill of Vietnamese people, we can manage our everyday life on a three months tourist or business visa.
But, in the end, the question remains: How to be legal? – For those of us who do not want to play the game, for those of us who do not want to “negotiate”, there is only one thing we can do: go back to the country we originally came from, which in my case is Switzerland.
The full op-ed story here:
http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/page … untry.aspx
Can we be legal in this country?
Yes! Get married with a Vietnamese lady. Holding the US citizenship, it's very easy for you to find a Vietnamese lady dreaming to live in the US and willing to pay you $50k. Wao, win-win situation! You can have permanent residence card to live in VN while she can have US passport! Plus, you can easy earn $50k 
Yes! Get married with a Vietnamese lady. Holding the US citizenship, it's very easy for you to find a Vietnamese lady dreaming to live in the US and willing to pay you $50k. Wao, win-win situation! You can have permanent residence card to live in VN while she can have US passport! Plus, you can easy earn $50k
I was offered 30k for Australia :)but am holding out for 50k
Aibiet,
Ok, I will marry you for the $50000 usd, help you get a USA greencard, you can live in America and I will stay here in Vietnam. It would be the perfect marriage, we can communicate by email, yea it will be a virtual marriage all by internet. I accept your proposal.
Aibiet,
Ok, I will marry you for the $50000 usd, help you get a USA greencard, you can live in America and I will stay here in Vietnam. It would be the perfect marriage, we can communicate by email, yea it will be a virtual marriage all by internet. I accept your proposal.
Woo Hoo ... party !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Citsym wrote:Yes! Get married with a Vietnamese lady. Holding the US citizenship, it's very easy for you to find a Vietnamese lady dreaming to live in the US and willing to pay you $50k. Wao, win-win situation! You can have permanent residence card to live in VN while she can have US passport! Plus, you can easy earn $50k
I was offered 30k for Australia :)but am holding out for 50k
Just last week, 2 ppl I know are doing it for 75k, each.
They won't even try to immigrate by legal means, just want to grossly overpay for a visa, lolz. Immigrating overseas isn't as difficult as it's made out to be, forget about spending that much $. Do many people even have that much to spend to begin with?
ancientpathos wrote:Aibiet,
Ok, I will marry you for the $50000 usd, help you get a USA greencard, you can live in America and I will stay here in Vietnam. It would be the perfect marriage, we can communicate by email, yea it will be a virtual marriage all by internet. I accept your proposal.
Haha. If I have that amount money, why do I have to go to the US for living then? I would use $10k for travelling around the US, visiting friends there. The $40k can do a lot of things in Vietnam. But if you want, I can introduce to you many young and beautiful and rich Vietnamese women want to do that kind of marriage. Anyway, many thanks for the offer 
mikeymyke wrote:They won't even try to immigrate by legal means, just want to grossly overpay for a visa, lolz. Immigrating overseas isn't as difficult as it's made out to be, forget about spending that much $. Do many people even have that much to spend to begin with?
Not really. People will beg, borrow and steal to get the "Fee". The thinking goes like this: I pay this guy 50K to go to the USA. There, I can work in a nail shop (because all Vietnamese work in nail shops in America), earning 20K a year (that's even below minimum wage). In three years, I can pay off the debt. After that it's pure gravy.
Considering the median yearly income per Capita of Việt Nam is around $1,600 USD,
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD
you can see how the math computes. Work 1 year in the US or 12 years in Việt Nam?
To put it in your perspective, would you rather work 1 year on Mars or 12 years in Canada? Would you beg, borrow or steal $1,625,000 USD ($50,000 fee US / $1,600 avg Vietnam Salary = 31.25 factor, applied to $52,000 avg Canadian Salary) to go there? You'll need that Fee to marry a Martian and get a "green card" to go to Mars. But then you'll earn $650,000 USD a year working in the Martian Mines (since all Canadians will be working in a Martian Mine).
I'm being facetious with this Martian example to illustrate a point of view.
aibiet150204 wrote:ancientpathos wrote:Aibiet,
Ok, I will marry you for the $50000 usd, help you get a USA greencard, you can live in America and I will stay here in Vietnam. It would be the perfect marriage, we can communicate by email, yea it will be a virtual marriage all by internet. I accept your proposal.
Haha. If I have that amount money, why do I have to go to the US for living then? I would use $10k for travelling around the US, visiting friends there. The $40k can do a lot of things in Vietnam. But if you want, I can introduce to you many young and beautiful and rich Vietnamese women want to do that kind of marriage. Anyway, many thanks for the offer
Ouch!
Hi Everyone
I am starting to enjoy the ideas expressed here.
Well Done!
Lookingabroad
Warning, Warning! Klatu Verada Nikto....soon humans will not be legal on this planet.
ancientpathos wrote:Aibiet,
Ok, I will marry you for the $50000 usd, help you get a USA greencard, you can live in America and I will stay here in Vietnam. It would be the perfect marriage, we can communicate by email, yea it will be a virtual marriage all by internet. I accept your proposal.
WOW Ron, this is a wonderful thought:lol:
but.. your talking about a gay marriage or what?
mal wrote:ancientpathos wrote:Aibiet,
Ok, I will marry you for the $50000 usd, help you get a USA greencard, you can live in America and I will stay here in Vietnam. It would be the perfect marriage, we can communicate by email, yea it will be a virtual marriage all by internet. I accept your proposal.
WOW Ron, this is a wonderful thought:lol:
but.. your talking about a gay marriage or what?
For $50000, I don't care if she is gay.
mal wrote:ancientpathos wrote:Aibiet,
Ok, I will marry you for the $50000 usd, help you get a USA greencard, you can live in America and I will stay here in Vietnam. It would be the perfect marriage, we can communicate by email, yea it will be a virtual marriage all by internet. I accept your proposal.
WOW Ron, this is a wonderful thought:lol:
but.. your talking about a gay marriage or what?
Where'd that come from? aibiet150204 is a girl. ancientpathos is a guy. Quit injecting ideas that aren't there to begin with.
Where'd that come from? aibiet150204 is a girl. ancientpathos is a guy.
Just asking.. how do you know aibiet150204 is a girl... I can't find anything on aibiet150204's profile to confirm gender!
Yeah, but she IS.
Citsym wrote:Just asking.. how do you know aibiet150204 is a girl... I can't find anything on aibiet150204's profile to confirm gender!
Khong co ai biet chac! Chac aibiet biet. The Shadow knows;-)
Citsym wrote:Where'd that come from? aibiet150204 is a girl. ancientpathos is a guy.
Just asking.. how do you know aibiet150204 is a girl... I can't find anything on aibiet150204's profile to confirm gender!
One, the avatar icon is a girl and Two, I've talked to her on the telephone.
One, the avatar icon is a girl and Two, I've talked to her on the telephone.
Okay, thanks for the clarification .. and thanks charmavietnam
lirelou wrote:Khong co ai biet chac! Chac aibiet biet. The Shadow knows;-)
You didn't write with the accenting marks but I think you wrote -
Translation: Nobody knows for sure! Only "who knows" knows. The Shadow knows ;-).
Nice play on words there because aibiet150204's handle translates to "who knows 150204", Ai Biết = who knows.
charmavietnam wrote:Yeah, but she IS.
Citsym wrote:Just asking.. how do you know aibiet150204 is a girl... I can't find anything on aibiet150204's profile to confirm gender!
How can you know???????? I'm maybe a gay 
Tran Hung Dao wrote:Citsym wrote:Where'd that come from? aibiet150204 is a girl. ancientpathos is a guy.
Just asking.. how do you know aibiet150204 is a girl... I can't find anything on aibiet150204's profile to confirm gender!
One, the avatar icon is a girl and Two, I've talked to her on the telephone.
Are you sure you talked to me but not another girl?!? 
That's a secret
aibiet150204 wrote:How can you know???????? I'm maybe a gay
charmavietnam wrote:That's a secret
aibiet150204 wrote:How can you know???????? I'm maybe a gay
Seem you know everything?!? :p
Đó là đúng
aibiet150204 wrote:Seem you know everything?!? :p
THD, right on the money. charmavietnam" Do la Dung! = That is correct! Right? Thanks for that. Small snippets are the best way to pick up a language.
lirelou wrote:THD, right on the money. charmavietnam" Do la Dung! = That is correct! Right? Thanks for that. Small snippets are the best way to pick up a language.
For sure! Small snippets are good supplements when learning a language. I hope Vietnamese people will understand what I am saying or else it's back to facial and hand gestures for communicating.
aibiet150204 wrote:charmavietnam wrote:Yeah, but she IS.
Citsym wrote:Just asking.. how do you know aibiet150204 is a girl... I can't find anything on aibiet150204's profile to confirm gender!
How can you know???????? I'm maybe a gay
No worries, we can still marry.
One day those clowns in Ha Noi will realise that there are more important issues in Viet Nam then the visa situation. Lets see, maybe they could start with the traffic, police corruption,hospitals,roads,pollution, my god, the list goes on. Its an easy target for the brains in the North, they seem hell bent in driving people out of the country and making the visa situation more difficult.
colinoscapee wrote:...they seem hell bent in driving people out of the country and making the visa situation more difficult.
You're right on that thought...the impetus for the current WP crackdown is because of Chinese laborers that are working with the Chinese contractors who won construction bids. If I remember correctly, there are about 50,000 "illegal immigrants" of this nature. The laborers take jobs from Vietnamese laborers, or make the environment so intimidating for a Vietnamese laborer to work on the building team, and they set up illegal work camps that the police cannot control (like squatter villages with Chinese signs) and feel like it's the Chinese domination of Vietnam (bắc thuộc, "belonging to the North"), a period of Chinese colonization from 111 BC to 938 AD, all over again.
Yes, I knew thats where this all started, so its simple, go after the Chinese. Dont go after everyone, someone is letting the Chinese in, that would be a good place to start.But as usual, the government will say everything is so difficult, maybe if they were not receiving bribes it would stop. Many expats are leaving due to the visa situation, many are heading to Cambodia where the system is so much easier. Cambodia has a much easier system in place, but commies like to do things the hard way,very hard mentality to get your head around.
colinoscapee wrote:Yes, I knew thats where this all started, so its simple, go after the Chinese. Dont go after everyone...
I think that's what the new policy tries to avoid the perception of just going after one group of people...so that's probably the reason for some of the expansion of many of the categories. The first paragraph below is obviously going after the illegal Chinese laborers, but the other "bizarre provisions" seem to be targeting international teachers.
The decree scraps a provision allowing foreign manual laborers to work for up to three months without a work permit. This privilege will henceforth be extended only to those who come to handle complicated technical or technological issues that are beyond foreign experts based in Vietnam.
One of the most bizarre provisions in the decree is that on the one hand it enlarges the category of foreign workers exempt from obtaining a work permit, but on the other requires them to apply for a certificate saying they do not have to obtain one.
Those added to the category are teachers at foreign institutions sent to work in international schools in Vietnam managed by foreign agencies, volunteers, those with master's degrees and advising, teaching, or researching at Vietnamese tertiary or vocational institutions for a maximum of one month, and foreign workers who come here under international agreements to which state agencies are a signatory.
Three month visas(including extensions) applied for IN Vietnam only approved after providing a lease/rental agreement in Vietnamese and a Vietnamese criminal background check certificate.
Fact or fiction?
Yes, another of the governments brain storms, you are supposed to supply your rental book when applying for a visa extension.
aibiet150204 wrote:Yes! Get married with a Vietnamese lady. Holding the US citizenship, it's very easy for you to find a Vietnamese lady dreaming to live in the US and willing to pay you $50k. Wao, win-win situation! You can have permanent residence card to live in VN while she can have US passport! Plus, you can easy earn $50k
Good luck with the partner marrying the VN and getting PR, , I applied for PR nearly 3 years ago, gave up inquiring about it after 2 yrs, does anyone on this site actually know of any Foreigners with PR?
( A 5 yr Exemption still requires the 90 day visa application and 210,000 fee ).
$50K doesn't go very far in VN these days, even in the provinces, land/buildings are getting expensive.
I don't know anyone who has permanent residency and this includes guys who are married to Vietnamese women. The best I have been able to get is a three year residency permit, which I've gotten twice. In order to do this, I had to start a formal business called the Da Nang Artists Company. The volunteer work that I've been doing at Vietnamese government hospitals for the past several years didn't get me past the visa stage, but the business did. Be forewarned, however, that the hoops that you have to jump through to establish and maintain a business here are formidable.
does anyone on this site actually know of any Foreigners with PR?
Georges Boudarel, if he's still alive. The government of Vietnam has granted citizenship to a few select foreigners who assisted them in their wars. Boudarel was among them. I remember some German lady being mentioned as having received it a few years ago. I believe she was granted the right to be buried in Vietnam.
Nah, he died. But this post will give you an idea of his life:
Thanks to Dan Duffy for posting more on Georges Boudarel. Dan posted a fair account of his life -- some of us are indebted to his work -- but this bit stuck in my craw:
"I have never seen, even in the polemics against him, any specific assertion that Boudarel did anything more sinister than work for a prison camp. It is sinister, but someone has to do it unless we simply shoot all prisoners."
I did not know Boudarel well at all. I only met him several times. But I suspect that he himself would not agree with the tone of those sentences. Before going to Vietnam in 1992, I asked him for suggestions for reading. His response: he said I should read a particular book by a Russian author on the gulag in the USSR!
I think I can understand, however imperfectly, how Boudarel came to agree to take on his prison position -- which was as a political commisar. This past fall, I stumbled across several DRV books on "dich van," or prosletyzation among the enemy, that were published around 1950. The Viet Minh was trying to win over troops in the French army, and it was making a particular effort to target Germans (yes, Germans) as well as others among the troops. As described, Dich van seems eminently reasonable. It's just that its implementation in prison camps was horrendous. And Boudarel, it seems, was part and parcel of that implementation.
In life, people sometimes make horrible mistakes. Boudarel did. Someone once told me that he thought Boudarel was haunted by his prison experience all his life. But Boudarel did not try to whitewash that mistake. (That would be easy: the lack of food in Viet Minh zones -- a complaint of some of the prisoners -- was sometimes due to the actions of the French military.) Instead, he cast a critical eye on the workings of a communist system that, initially informed by great idealism, foundered (to say the least). For his work on that topic, as well as on others, we should all be grateful. His one big mistake should not invalidate an entire life.
Shawn McHale
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