Need an advice about good neighborhood to live in Lisbon or Porto

Hello Masha book,

Welcome on board !

Maybe you could provide some details about any preference you might have regarding amenities, infrastructure or type of environment you like.

Regards

Bhavna

@masha book It also depends on your budget and how much you like the rain ? Both cities have their charm.

Welcome Masha,

You have to visit first.

Each person is different from another. Budgets, motivations, personal interests, hobbies, daily habits, .... everything varies and makes everyone choose a different place to live...

If you decied on an area that you like, visit it at different times of the day.

@Bhavna

Hi Bhavna,

We would like it to be a vibrant place with boutiques, restaurants and stores in a walking distance. With enough greenery (parks) and preferably water view.

Not very close to tourist attractions but not at the outskirts of the city.

We would leave budget and amenities for later.

@juliajonesjy

How much rain you have in these cities? Is it something significant to take into consideration or the other way around (no rain for months)?

@JohnnyPT

Hi Johnny,

I'd like opinions and advices from the people already lining there before visiting. Otherwise you can miss something worthwhile seeing.

We would like it to be a vibrant place with boutiques, restaurants and stores in a walking distance. With enough greenery (parks) and preferably water view.

Not very close to tourist attractions but not at the outskirts of the city.

@masha book Rainfall is quite abundant, in fact, it amounts to 1,255 millimeters (49.4 inches) per year. The rains are frequent from October to May, while from June to September it rains quite rarely, and very rarely in July and August. Here is the average precipitation. This winter was pretty bad.

Porto - Average precipitation

Month    Millimeters    Inches    Days

January    160                    6.3            13

February    140                5.5            12

March        90                    3.5            10

April    115                        4.5            11

May    100                        3.9            10

June    45                        1.8            6

July    20                            0.8            3

August    25                    1                3

September    70            2.8            6

October    140                    5.5            11

November    160                6.3            12

December    195                7.7            13

Year    1255                    49.4        110

Winter, from December to February, is mild: daytime temperatures hover around 14/15 °C (57/59 °F). The rains occur in periods of bad weather, which last a few days, and may be abundant.

Compared to Lisbon, cold days are more likely, while snow is hardly ever seen. The last snowfall of some importance occurred in February 1983.

On the coldest nights of the year, the temperature typically drops to around 0 °C (32 °F). The coldest record is -4 °C (25 °F), recorded in January 1941. More recently, the temperature dropped to -3.5 °C (25.5 °F) in February 1983.

Spring, from March to May, is cool; episodes of bad weather and wind are still quite frequent, but there are also sunny periods, with mild temperatures. In May, the maximum temperature is on average about 20 °C (68 °F).

Summer, from June to mid-September, is mild or pleasantly warm. In fact, there are quite cool periods, with highs around 20/23 °C (68/73 °F), and sometimes even lower in June, and warmer periods, with temperatures hovering between 26 °C and 30 °C (79 and 86 °F).

Sometimes, from mid-June to early September, heat waves can occur, usually of short duration, in which the temperature can reach 38/39 °C (100/102 °F), as happened in August 2003 or in July 2013. However, this happens less often than in south-central Portugal.

In summer, the weather is usually good, but some Atlantic fronts bringing clouds and rain can not be excluded, especially in June, which, to tell the truth, often resembles a spring month.

Autumn, from mid-September to November, is mild, and becomes gradually wetter over the weeks, although good weather often continues until mid-October.

Porto, Ribeira

The amount of sunshine in Porto is very good in summer, when sunny days prevail (though a little less than in central and southern Portugal). In the other seasons, Atlantic depressions able to bring wind and rain are frequent, although there are also sunny days. However, there are on average 2,500 hours of sunshine per year. Here are the average sunshine hours per day.

Porto - Sunshine hours

Month    Average    Total

January    4    125

February    4.5    130

March    6    190

April    7    215

May    8.5    260

June    9    275

July    10    310

August    9.5    295

September    7.5    225

October    6    185

November    4.5    140

December    4    125

Year    6.8    2470

The ocean near Porto is cold to swim in: the water temperature reaches 18.5 °C (65 °F) in July and September, and 19 °C (66 °F) in August. Here are the average sea temperatures.

Porto - Sea temperature

Month    Celsius (°C)    Fahrenheit (°F)

January    14.5    58

February    14    57

March    14    57

April    14.5    58

May    15.5    60

June    17    63

July    18.5    65

August    19    66

September    18.5    65

October    17.5    64

November    16.5    61

December    15    59

Year    16.2    61.1

Best Time

The best time to visit Porto runs from June to September, since it is the warmest and the least rainy period of the year. July and August are the warmest months, but the heat is rarely excessive, and in addition, they are the least rainy. However, in September too, the rains are still quite rare. In May, you can go, but cool and rainy days are more frequent.

Even in summer, it's better to bring a sweatshirt, and maybe a light jacket for the evening.

Those who want to avoid hot periods (which are quite rare, but possible) can choose the period from early May to mid-June and from mid-September to early October, although it rains more often.

Porto - Weather by month

Based on the period 1991-2020

(January - February - March - April - May - June - July - August - September - October - November - December)

In January, the coldest month of the year, the weather in Porto is usually mild. The average temperature is of 10.2 °C (50 °F), with a minimum of 6.3 °C (43.3 °F) and a maximum of 14.1 °C (57.4 °F).

On the coldest nights of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 0.5 °C (33 °F). However, it dropped to -2 °C (28.4 °F) in January 2003.

On the warmest days of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 18.5 °C (65.5 °F). However, it reached 22.2 °C (72 °F) in January 2016.

Precipitation amounts to 160 mm (6.3 in), distributed over 13 days.

The day lasts on average 9 hours and 35 minutes.

There are on average 4 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 42% of the time.

The average humidity is 80%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 11 kph (7 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 14.5 °C (57.5 °F). Therefore, the sea is very cold for swimming.

In February, the weather in Porto is usually mild. The average temperature is of 10.7 °C (51 °F), with a minimum of 6.4 °C (43.4 °F) and a maximum of 15.1 °C (59.2 °F).

On the coldest nights of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 0.5 °C (33.5 °F). However, it dropped to -2 °C (28.4 °F) in February 1991.

On the warmest days of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 20 °C (68 °F). However, it reached 24 °C (75.2 °F) in February 2019.

Precipitation amounts to 140 mm (5.5 in), distributed over 12 days.

The day lasts on average 10 hours and 40 minutes.

There are on average 4.5 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 43% of the time.

The average humidity is 77%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 11 kph (7 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 14 °C (57 °F). Therefore, the sea is very cold for swimming.

In March, the weather in Porto is usually mild. The average temperature is of 12.6 °C (55 °F), with a minimum of 8.1 °C (46.5 °F) and a maximum of 17.1 °C (62.7 °F).

On the coldest nights, which normally occur at the beginning of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 2 °C (36 °F). However, it dropped to -2.1 °C (28.2 °F) in March 2005.

On the warmest days, which normally occur at the end of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 24 °C (75 °F). However, it reached 29.1 °C (84.4 °F) in March 2002.

Precipitation amounts to 90 mm (3.5 in), distributed over 10 days.

The day lasts on average 12 hours and 0 minutes.

There are on average 6 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 52% of the time.

The average humidity is 75%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 12 kph (7 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 14 °C (57 °F). Therefore, the sea is very cold for swimming.

In April, the weather in Porto is usually mild. The average temperature is of 13.7 °C (57 °F), with a minimum of 9.4 °C (48.8 °F) and a maximum of 18.1 °C (64.6 °F).

On the coldest nights, which normally occur at the beginning of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 4 °C (39.5 °F). However, it dropped to 1 °C (33.8 °F) in April 1995.

On the warmest days, which normally occur at the end of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 25.5 °C (78 °F). However, it reached 31.2 °C (88.2 °F) in April 1997.

Precipitation amounts to 115 mm (4.5 in), distributed over 11 days.

The day lasts on average 13 hours and 25 minutes.

There are on average 7 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 54% of the time.

The average humidity is 76%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 12 kph (7 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 14.5 °C (58 °F). Therefore, the sea is very cold for swimming.

In May, the weather in Porto is usually very mild. The average temperature is of 16.0 °C (61 °F), with a minimum of 11.7 °C (53.1 °F) and a maximum of 20.4 °C (68.6 °F).

On the coldest nights, which normally occur at the beginning of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 6.5 °C (44 °F). However, it dropped to 3.8 °C (38.8 °F) in May 1991.

On the warmest days, which normally occur at the end of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 29.5 °C (85.5 °F). However, it reached 34 °C (93.2 °F) in May 2006.

Precipitation amounts to 100 mm (3.9 in), distributed over 10 days.

The day lasts on average 14 hours and 30 minutes. So the days are long.

There are on average 8.5 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 57% of the time.

The average humidity is 76%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 11 kph (7 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 15.5 °C (60 °F). Therefore, the sea is cold for swimming.

In June, the weather in Porto is usually warm. The average temperature is of 18.2 °C (65 °F), with a minimum of 13.8 °C (56.9 °F) and a maximum of 22.6 °C (72.7 °F).

On the coldest nights, which normally occur at the beginning of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 9.5 °C (49 °F). However, it dropped to 7 °C (44.6 °F) in June 1993.

On the warmest days, which normally occur at the end of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 32 °C (90 °F). However, it reached 39 °C (102.2 °F) in June 2003.

Precipitation amounts to 45 mm (1.8 in), distributed over 6 days.

The day lasts on average 15 hours and 5 minutes. So the days are long. June 21, the summer solstice, is the longest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere.

There are on average 9 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 61% of the time.

The average humidity is 77%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 10 kph (7 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 17 °C (63 °F). Therefore, the sea is cold for swimming.

In July, the weather in Porto is usually warm. The average temperature is of 19.5 °C (67 °F), with a minimum of 14.9 °C (58.9 °F) and a maximum of 24.2 °C (75.5 °F).

On the coldest nights of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 11 °C (52 °F). However, it dropped to 9 °C (48.2 °F) in July 1993.

On the warmest days of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 33.5 °C (92.5 °F). However, it reached 38 °C (100.4 °F) in July 1993.

Precipitation amounts to 20 mm (0.8 in), distributed over 3 days.

The day lasts on average 14 hours and 50 minutes. So the days are long.

There are on average 10 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 67% of the time.

The average humidity is 79%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 10 kph (6 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 18.5 °C (65 °F). Therefore, the sea is very cool for swimming.

In August, the warmest month of the year, the weather in Porto is usually warm. The average temperature is of 19.9 °C (68 °F), with a minimum of 15 °C (58.9 °F) and a maximum of 24.8 °C (76.6 °F).

On the coldest nights of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 10.5 °C (51 °F). However, it dropped to 9.7 °C (49.5 °F) in August 2002.

On the warmest days of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 33 °C (91 °F). However, it reached 39 °C (102.2 °F) in August 2003.

Precipitation amounts to 25 mm (1 in), distributed over 3 days.

The day lasts on average 13 hours and 40 minutes.

There are on average 9.5 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 70% of the time.

The average humidity is 79%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 9 kph (6 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 19 °C (66 °F). Therefore, the sea is very cool for swimming.

In September, the weather in Porto is usually warm. The average temperature is of 18.8 °C (66 °F), with a minimum of 14 °C (57.2 °F) and a maximum of 23.5 °C (74.4 °F).

On the coldest nights, which normally occur at the end of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 9.5 °C (49 °F). However, it dropped to 8.5 °C (47.3 °F) in September 1999.

On the warmest days, which normally occur at the beginning of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 31.5 °C (89 °F). However, it reached 37.4 °C (99.3 °F) in September 2018.

Precipitation amounts to 70 mm (2.8 in), distributed over 6 days.

The day lasts on average 12 hours and 25 minutes.

There are on average 7.5 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 60% of the time.

The average humidity is 79%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 9 kph (6 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 18.5 °C (65.5 °F). Therefore, the sea is very cool for swimming.

In October, the weather in Porto is usually very mild. The average temperature is of 16.5 °C (62 °F), with a minimum of 12.2 °C (54 °F) and a maximum of 20.8 °C (69.5 °F).

On the coldest nights, which normally occur at the end of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 7 °C (44.5 °F). However, it dropped to 3 °C (37.4 °F) in October 2018.

On the warmest days, which normally occur at the beginning of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 27.5 °C (81 °F). However, it reached 33.1 °C (91.6 °F) in October 2011.

Precipitation amounts to 140 mm (5.5 in), distributed over 11 days.

The day lasts on average 11 hours and 5 minutes.

There are on average 6 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 54% of the time.

The average humidity is 80%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 11 kph (7 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 17.5 °C (63.5 °F). Therefore, the sea is cold for swimming.

In November, the weather in Porto is usually mild. The average temperature is of 13.0 °C (55 °F), with a minimum of 9 °C (48.2 °F) and a maximum of 16.9 °C (62.4 °F).

On the coldest nights, which normally occur at the end of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 3 °C (37.5 °F). However, it dropped to 0 °C (32 °F) in November 2000.

On the warmest days, which normally occur at the beginning of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 22.5 °C (72.5 °F). However, it reached 26 °C (78.8 °F) in November 2007.

Precipitation amounts to 160 mm (6.3 in), distributed over 12 days.

The day lasts on average 9 hours and 55 minutes.

There are on average 4.5 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 47% of the time.

The average humidity is 81%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 11 kph (7 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 16.5 °C (61.5 °F). Therefore, the sea is cold for swimming.

In December, the weather in Porto is usually mild. The average temperature is of 11.0 °C (52 °F), with a minimum of 7.3 °C (45.1 °F) and a maximum of 14.8 °C (58.6 °F).

On the coldest nights of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 1 °C (34 °F). However, it dropped to -2 °C (28.4 °F) in December 2014.

On the warmest days of the month, the temperature usually reaches around 19 °C (66 °F). However, it reached 22 °C (71.6 °F) in December 2015.

Precipitation amounts to 195 mm (7.7 in), distributed over 13 days.

The day lasts on average 9 hours and 20 minutes. December 21, the winter solstice, is the shortest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere.

There are on average 4 hours of sunshine per day. So, the sun shines 43% of the time.

The average humidity is 81%. Hence, the air is normally humid.

The average wind speed is 12 kph (7 mph).

The average sea temperature is of 15 °C (59 °F). Therefore, the sea is cold for swimming.

@juliajonesjy

Hi Julia,

Thank you for the detailed information.

Do houses/apartments in Porto have some kind of heating systems or people heat them in winter using radiators? If you don't heat house at just few degrees outside it becomes to be the same inside which is very unpleasant. Adding to this significant amount of rain I'd expect it to be cold and damp with some mold growing in the corners. Do you have any personal experience around this matter?

You are 100% correct. Be very careful with that aspect of Portuguese accommodations. For instance, I rented an apartment and didn't pay attention if they had a heater or not, simply because I wrongly assumed that all apartments would have one, either central heater or partial. Well, neither so I had to buy a portable one that of course doesn't do the job. Result : I have been freezing the entire winter. Anyway, I learned my lesson and will pay close attention for that next time and if the apartment has a double glazed window, not very common either from my experience but it can tremendously help to cut the noise....and electricity bills. Also, next time I will pay more attention with the energy performance certificate. Things that we take for granted in north America or certain other countries for instance are not the norm in Portugal. So if you want a certain comfort, you have to be picky and demanding ; otherwise you end up regretting your move. I am not a specialist about Porto or anything but can just share my experience with Portuguese flats. If you are planning on buying, pay close attention to everything important.

@juliajonesjy

So, which city did you live in having this experience?

Also, I have few other questions:

1. Did you see any mold staying in the apartment throughout winter without much heating?
2. Do these amenities (heating system, double-glazed windows, etc.) exist at least in lately built apartments or general building code just ignores them and everybody suffer the same way? It's important to know if these thigs exist and just cost additional money or locals just do not care.

@Masha,

The certificate of energy is MANDATORY since 2013 in the purchase and rental of houses. In real estate agencies, each house advertised is always marked with the energy certification assigned to it by a certified technician (A+, A, B, B-, C, D, E and F).

In Lisbon, I suggest: Parque das Nações, Alta de Lisboa, Benfica/Colombo, Estrela/Lapa, Campo Grande/Alvalade, Telheiras, Amoreiras/Campo de Ourique, Restelo, Carnaxide, Miraflores, ...

Near Lisbon: Cascais, Oeiras, Parede, Carcavelos, Alcabideche, Estoril, ...

Best Regards

@juliajonesjy

Hi Julia,

Are those rains strong and short or they continue all day long (and sometimes few days in a row)?

Yes they do, sometimes, day after day for a week, very depressing all those wet grey days.....

I have had bad experiences in both Lisbon and Santarem where I was very cold in the apartment. With the lack of double glazed windows, and proper insulation, I had some leaks inside my place. As for mold, yes on the balcony. I use Clorox.

To answer your previous question, yes of course those things exist but are not the norms. So you really have to look for them and don't assume they are present in each apartment. Many Portuguese are used to wearing their jacket inside. I am not sure if it's because they are used to being cold or just because ? My Portuguese is not good enough to ask. Also, I can tell you that's what expats experience in general, after reading the same stories over and over, so it's a myth when some people say 'oh Portugal is the country of sunshine ; winters are mild....' definitely false, more like propaganda. In summer yes of course but past September, the fun is over.

Anyway, I told myself that this is the last winter I am spending in this apartment. in the center of the country. I am looking for something more permanent now, a place that I can call home, where I feel comfortable so I am taking my time examining all the apartments I visit in details now so I won't run into those types of issues. Since I am in a rental apartment, I didn't feel like having to install anything which would end up benefiting the owner once I move out. | still don't understand how developers can build those apartments without a heater in Europe ??? Mystery to me since it gets cold in winter. Also many older buildings do not have elevators, there are full of them for sale online, so that's another handicap for many people too. If you have to climb the stairs to your 3rd floor apartment, it can become difficult, especially if you are carrying things all the time like myself. So that's another issue you have to pay close attention too. Those places usually take much longer to sell, especially with so many retirees and baby boomers who live in Portugal. It should be mandatory to have an elevator in all buildings that have more than 2 stories. Imagine the poor older folks having to climb all those stairs....My building is only 20 years old so not that old in 'European terms' so I don't understand, why no central/partial heater. When I asked my landlord, she told me, 'oh it's because it's only cold in January and February, so no need'. I would add, November, December and part of March too, to be more accurate. Also watch out for real estate agencies, and agents, not all of them are very professional or ethical. Some don't even know the product they are selling or renting or don't disclose the essential because they see you are a new comer and don't have the same knowledge as Portuguese people do, which is normal. They are just out to make a 'quick buck' not caring about your real needs. But you are definitely right to ask all those questions before hand so you will be warned !

@juliajonesjy

Hi Julia,

So, you had pretty bad experience with rains. May I ask you the other way around - is there enough sun in winter? How much sun do they have daily/weekly - not meteorological data but your own impression?

@masha book Correct. Not much sun in the winter, in general... This morning it was 3 degrees in Santarem ! 1 hour away from Lisbon and it was freezing, even with the sun and it's Spring time in 19 days, It gets especially very cold in the morning, and evening and night, every night from early November until April approximately.

Anyway, good luck trying to find a suitable place in either Lisbon or Porto. There are many demands with very little suitable offers. It's easier to find below standards places with energy performance E and F but then again, once you are warned, you do not want to stay there unless you are very limited with your budget. Extremely competitive. Short term rentals are easier to find, Buying a place takes a lot of research and visits. Tons of houses/apartments are either under extensive renovation or in such a state of despair that they may turn you off. Yesterday out of the 4 places I visited in Lisbon, not even in a great neighborhood, around 200 000 Euros, 3 of them were under renovation, out of these 3, 2 were left unfinished since the owner, I was told 'didn't feel like finishing the work !' so it will probably up to the potential buyer to do it. 2 places were quite scary, the buildings were run down, rusty. Paint ripped off and so on.,...The entrance was quite strange too. The main entrance, you just had to press a button to get in, so anybody could just press it and get in, then once you reach your floor, you needed a key to open an iron gated door (little bit like in a jail). That door would be the same for 3 different apartments. I didn't really like that settings). It looked kind of unwelcoming. Anyway, I did not picture myself living there. One of the places, had on one side a beautiful view of the river, so that's what attracted me in the first place because of the pics on the internet ; however, the agency didn't show the  angle view of the cemetery. So sad. It was a turn off for me. That's why, I recommend always go and see the place and don't rely too much on the pics posted on the internet. The agency tried to do a 'bidding war' but the agent told me that on the offer day, no buyer offered the 'price wanted' by the seller. That's also why |I was surprised because it really looked good on the internet. Now I understand why. Also, the balcony was ridiculously small (couldn't fit 1 small table or chair) and the elevator was right next to the apartment. The neighbors were very closed too. One bedroom. The agent told me the minimum price the owner would accept was 210 000 Euros. If your budget is quite high, then you probably won't run into those issues, I guess, either for rental or purchase, as on the top, you will have less competition.

Can I ask what country you are coming from ? To understand better your standards. For instance, in Canada, big cities like Toronto have relatively new buildings, under 15 and 20 years old. 30 years old would be considered quite old. I guess in European standards, not really. But the big issue I see is that it seems as if the condo fees are so low in Portugal that there is not really a budget to maintain the common elements properly. I have very seldom seen a gym or a pool or a sauna and a concierge, in the typical Portuguese building whereas in Toronto, those amenities are pretty much present in each building.