UK citizens residing by independent means, - pre and post Brexit

Since there are no clear official guidelines yet (probably because the associated regulations do not yet exist), I can only offer my OPINION:
Like any non-EU-citizen, UK subjects will have to get a residence permit after Brexit becomes actual fact at the end of this year. Since they are then also ineligible for government assistance, it makes sense to give such residence permits only to people who can prove they can sustain themselves financially. Other non-EU citizens have to either show permanent income of above the poverty line (around €9000/year per person) or an equivalent amount in a blocked account, plus they need to have (Germnan) health insurance and sufficient living space (e.g. rented apartment). I expect similar requirements to apply to Brits who want to stay here.
(Remark: Different rules apply to family members of Germans.)

This is a good question to which I can just add some thoughts rather than a definitive answer. When people are not coming as a student or on a family reunion visa then what immigration status is possible? Usually it is to work and then needing a work visa for a non-EU person. This is also possible for self-employment but they still expect people to work, or say start up a business.

One might say, oh they are independently wealthy and not expecting handouts so who should care? But it is not so simple. For one thing, a resident needs to have health insurance. Most people have a public option, the payments for which are based on a percentage of earned income. How can one calculate when there is no earned income? Private insurance premiums are not based on income but there are strict rules as to who is even allowed to get it and one of the rules is a fairly large income. For either possible option there seems to be a problem. 

And one has the possibility to eventually get unlimited residency after some years. They want to know if people have enough income or else they are seen as a risk that they end up asking for public assistance. The standard is simply to look at people's income. If the income requirements are waived and suddenly the person claims to no longer have assets, then what? I think in the past people tried tricks to get around immigration requirements by showing assets that suddenly disappeared – as they were actually borrowed to fraudulently make it appear that one owned them. For example, a study visa requires a certain amount in a blocked account. If such accounts were not blocked then people would show money on an account that vanished after they showed up.

What is true is that truly wealthy people will usually find a way. Starting up a business for example is possible but then they want to see a business plan and enough capital to give it a chance. This is a bit different than just holding already owned assets. The allowance is based on that one is creating something, possibly employing people and adding to the economy. Just holding investments doesn't do this.

And there are golden passport or residency programs in other countries. This makes me ask; why would one pay a few million euros to get a Cyprus passport if they were allowed to simply come to Germany on the merit of having that kind of assets?

I think there are lawyers and companies that specialize in such things. So I have no doubt that if one really has enough money they would find a way but it is likely more complicated and expensive than one might assume.

Thanks for the replies. I'm not familiar with the term blocked account though, is it possible to elaborate on that and how it relates to having enough savings to live off?

The blocked account has nothing directly to do with having enough savings as such. It has to be mentioned in the context of how officials determine ones financial situation. And for a student visa a non-EU person coming here needs this account with enough to pay the minimum costs for a year. The thing is that in the past, they would borrow money, put it in an account, show a printout of the account and as soon as the visa was approved then the money would disappear. Then the person would come to Germany and often be in a situation where they didn't have money to pay their rent or food. Thus officials made the requirement of a blocked account to avoid this.
So how does this pertain to your situation? Easy, you want to come with no job or income but that you claim to have enough assets. But how can you truly prove this? Showing evidence of investments is meaningless unless they truly belong to you and don't just disappear after you would be given permission to immigrate. Not that having assets is bad, but it is not seen as a guarantee by officials like a proven job and income is.

NickJM wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I'm not familiar with the term blocked account though, is it possible to elaborate on that and how it relates to having enough savings to live off?

This link answers the question you've asked.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

TominStuttgart wrote:

One might say, oh they are independently wealthy and not expecting handouts so who should care? But it is not so simple. For one thing, a resident needs to have health insurance. Most people have a public option, the payments for which are based on a percentage of earned income. How can one calculate when there is no earned income?

While there are rules about health insurance premiums (they take your world income - and estimate it if you do not supply full disclosure of assets), another point is taxes:
As a resident, you benefit from all (tax-funded) aspects of our society, from roads to hospitals to peaceful neighbourhoods to cultural events and more - so you are required to contribute like all others, too. Again you must provide full disclosure of all assets (worldwide) to the tax authority and pay tax on most of them as if they were accrued here.
Most self-declared "independently wealthy" do not like this.

Thanks everybody. Very interesting about the blocked accounts idea. I'd not heard of it before but it makes sense.  What sort of amount might a blocked account have to consist of  to show an average person can sustain themselves for a year (I know it's going to be different for different people, but is there some sort of "roughly in the region of" guestimate for a person just living a no frills average lifestyle?

NickJM wrote:

What sort of amount might a blocked account have to consist of  to show an average person can sustain themselves for a year (I know it's going to be different for different people, but is there some sort of "roughly in the region of" guestimate for a person just living a no frills average lifestyle?

Click on the link Cynic gave above and your question is answered!
That amount allows only a "no frills bare survival" lifestyle.

Yes I  had already looked at that, but thought that whole page was all very much aimed at students first and foremost, but if it's generally applicable to everyone else as well then that's quite encouraging .  Thanks.

That is the income level (per person) below which you can claim social security benefits for the poor. For the authorites, the major point to check is that you can't do that.

I think it's worthwhile pointing out that you're asking questions about a system that currently doesn't exist except for existing 3rd country nationals which is almost certainly what the UK will become at the conclusion of the Brexit negotiations; which is probably why Beppi and Tom have explained it to you.  The blocked account scheme currently only exists for students, but it is not unheard of for countries to adopt existing systems to develop new systems, so it has potential for consideration of where Germany may go post Brexit.  How EU member nations treat 3rd country nationals is not a matter for the EU, it is entirely up to the member states themselves.

My own opinion is that you will not be allowed to do what you are hoping for.  Why?  Because you will be on a UK work contract, of which the country where you live will have no power to levy/influence taxes, welfare, pensions and health insurance matters.  We have people such as yourself in the Netherlands doing what you are planning to do, they live on the black; while they are young, healthy and have a job that will give them cash, they are fine; it's the day they are knocked down by a bus that it all unravels, especially if they have entered into some kind of relationship along the way.

Perhaps a way to do it legally is to resign from your UK employer then set up your own German company and sell your current employer services from Germany.

Cynic
Expat Team

Cynic wrote:

Perhaps a way to do it legally is to resign from your UK employer then set up your own German company and sell your current employer services from Germany.

This (self-employment) or being transferred to a German legal entity of the employer are the ONLY ways to do this legally (and everything else should not be encouraged and is not allowed to be discussed on this forum).

However, the OP claims to be "independently wealthy" and will not work for a living.

I have never suggested that I'm contemplating doing anything illegal.   Just that I have two options open to me. One continuing to work remotely online for the current UK company, or two stop doing that and just live off savings instead, (which I could probably just about do). My understanding is as an EU citizen I'm entitled to do either of those things anyway at the moment  (please do correct me if I'm wrong on that) as I've not yet been deprived of my EU citizenship. All I'm trying to ascertain is which of those two paths I could take,  is the most likely to be approved of by the German system when granting post Transition period residency (if they do at all).

NickJM wrote:

Just that I have two options open to me. One continuing to work remotely online for the current UK company, or two stop doing that and just live off savings instead, (which I could probably just about do).

You did not mention the first option at all so far in this thread - so I am a bit puzzled where Cynic got this from. Mindreading?

About the being employed and self-employed options post-Brexit, please read existing threads - it has been discussed in as much detail as the rather uncertain current situation permits.
Oh, and we did not ask this all-important question so far: How good is your German?
(Without good language skills, it's better not to come at all - except as employee of a German company that helps you with the transition.)

beppi wrote:

NickJM wrote:

Just that I have two options open to me. One continuing to work remotely online for the current UK company, or two stop doing that and just live off savings instead, (which I could probably just about do).

You did not mention the first option at all so far in this thread - so I am a bit puzzled where Cynic got this from. Mindreading?

It's there just before the end of the first paragraph in the initial post right up at  the top of this page.
   It's the bit in brackets.

beppi wrote:

Oh, and we did not ask this all-important question so far: How good is your German?

I have studied German at school. While it's very rudimentary and a long time ago, there is at least some knowledge.

beppi wrote:

NickJM wrote:

Just that I have two options open to me. One continuing to work remotely online for the current UK company, or two stop doing that and just live off savings instead, (which I could probably just about do).

You did not mention the first option at all so far in this thread - so I am a bit puzzled where Cynic got this from. Mindreading?

1st and 2nd posts

O.k., I overlooked the employment option. Sorry!
So, altogether, it seems you don't know what you want (only what you don't want: staying in the UK), you have too little “independent wealth” to live from it (above subsistence level) and you don't speak German.
With that, in my opinion, it's a harebrain scheme to move here.
If you are serious about this, study German first for a couple of years, visit the country often to build up a network, do some research about living conditions, costs and available jobs.
By then, with some luck, the current recession will be over and everything easier again. Brexit or not, there will always be chances (and a niche) for someone dedicated and resourceful enough.
But by moving now, on a whim and without proper considerations, the risk is high that you'd have to return after a few months, frustrated and broke.