Foreigners can buy an Apartment but can not rent it ?

Kiwiming wrote:

Hi there,

I have just bought an apartment in HCMC and hoping to rent out once settled.  At the moment, I am having trouble trying to transfer money from Hong Kong dollars to Vietnamese dongs and as far as I can see, you cannot do it.  Can only transfer from HKD to HKD and then the correspondence bank (in Vietnam) will convert it into VND.  Is there anyway I can do it without getting hit with a big fee and bad exchange rate?

Thanks in advance.
Kiwiming

I don't think there's any better solution.
I am in the same situation and have to transfer CHF to Vietnam.
The exchange rate through the correspondent bank is not very good, but the fees are about 25$ which is not very much with 3 billion Dong.
You have to make a SWIFT transfer with the option OUR (sender pays costs) at your bank in Hong Kong, then the fee should be about $25 regardless of the amount transferred.

If you use TransferWise, the exchange rate is better, but the fees for this high amount are substantial and cancel out the better exchange rate.

Someone here in the forum probably will suggesting Bitcoin as a good alternative for moving money. 
I personally say, if you are a gambler nature, you can try.

Hi,

I bought an appartment in Diamond Island Q2 march 2018.
I got it delivered yesterday.
I am a foreigner in this countr.
I am renting it for a very good price.
My lawyer confirms this is ok.

Kiwiming wrote:

Hi there,

I have just bought an apartment in HCMC and hoping to rent out once settled.  At the moment, I am having trouble trying to transfer money from Hong Kong dollars to Vietnamese dongs and as far as I can see, you cannot do it.  Can only transfer from HKD to HKD and then the correspondence bank (in Vietnam) will convert it into VND.  Is there anyway I can do it without getting hit with a big fee and bad exchange rate?

Thanks in advance.
Kiwiming

You are speaking about a big fee and a bad exchange rate. How much exactly ? For which amount to transfer ? In which vietnamese bank ?

Andy,

Thank you for the advice.  I did a smaller transfer to trial out the rate and fee through internet banking last month for an amount of 100 million dongs, and I've got charged HKD265 for internet banking fee and another one for HKD760 and I submitted that the sender (me) pays the fee.  How do you do it with only $25 fee?

Regards,
Kiwiming

Kiwiming wrote:

Andy,

Thank you for the advice.  I did a smaller transfer to trial out the rate and fee through internet banking last month for an amount of 100 million dongs, and I've got charged HKD265 for internet banking fee and another one for HKD760 and I submitted that the sender (me) pays the fee.  How do you do it with only $25 fee?

Regards,
Kiwiming

Have you looked at transferwise?

Laurent futur Nha Trang wrote:

Kiwiming wrote:

Hi there,

I have just bought an apartment in HCMC and hoping to rent out once settled.  At the moment, I am having trouble trying to transfer money from Hong Kong dollars to Vietnamese dongs and as far as I can see, you cannot do it.  Can only transfer from HKD to HKD and then the correspondence bank (in Vietnam) will convert it into VND.  Is there anyway I can do it without getting hit with a big fee and bad exchange rate?

Thanks in advance.
Kiwiming

You are speaking about a big fee and a bad exchange rate. How much exactly ? For which amount to transfer ? In which vietnamese bank ?

The amount is for 2.2 Billion Dongs, transferring from HSBC in Hong Kong to Standard Chartered in Vietnam.  HSBC advised me it can only do HKD to HKD, cannot do HKD to VND.  Standard Chartered Bank in Vietnam quoting me a very bad rate to convert when coming in.

Kiwiming

colinoscapee wrote:

Kiwiming wrote:

Andy,

Thank you for the advice.  I did a smaller transfer to trial out the rate and fee through internet banking last month for an amount of 100 million dongs, and I've got charged HKD265 for internet banking fee and another one for HKD760 and I submitted that the sender (me) pays the fee.  How do you do it with only $25 fee?

Regards,
Kiwiming

Have you looked at transferwise?

Hi Andy,

Yes, I have but I needs to show money coming into my account in Vietnam as proof for future when I decide to sell the apartment and take the money out of the country.  That is what I have been told by the agent!

Kiwiming wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Kiwiming wrote:

Andy,

Thank you for the advice.  I did a smaller transfer to trial out the rate and fee through internet banking last month for an amount of 100 million dongs, and I've got charged HKD265 for internet banking fee and another one for HKD760 and I submitted that the sender (me) pays the fee.  How do you do it with only $25 fee?

Regards,
Kiwiming

Have you looked at transferwise?

Hi Andy,

Yes, I have but I needs to show money coming into my account in Vietnam as proof for future when I decide to sell the apartment and take the money out of the country.  That is what I have been told by the agent!

You can get the transfer deposit from transferwise and also the bank statement showing the funds into your VN account.

You can get the transfer deposit from transferwise and also the bank statement showing the funds into your VN account.

Just had a look at Transferwise, even though the fee is over HKD10,000 but the rate is so much better than Standard Chartered in Vietnam, will still come out ahead.

Thanks

colinoscapee wrote:

Kiwiming wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Have you looked at transferwise?

Hi Andy,

Yes, I have but I needs to show money coming into my account in Vietnam as proof for future when I decide to sell the apartment and take the money out of the country.  That is what I have been told by the agent!

You can get the transfer deposit from transferwise and also the bank statement showing the funds into your VN account.

Just had a look at Transferwise, even though the fee is over HKD10,000 but the rate is so much better than Standard Chartered in Vietnam, will still come out ahead.

Thanks

DELAFON wrote:

Hi,

I bought an appartment in Diamond Island Q2 march 2018.
I got it delivered yesterday.
I am a foreigner in this countr.
I am renting it for a very good price.
My lawyer confirms this is ok.

This is wonderful news! Now I know I can buy property here and also rent it out legally, based on your assurances.

Please tell me: how can I connect with such a lawyer, who will pay the fine or go to jail for me if he is wrong?

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

DELAFON wrote:

Hi,

I bought an appartment in Diamond Island Q2 march 2018.
I got it delivered yesterday.
I am a foreigner in this countr.
I am renting it for a very good price.
My lawyer confirms this is ok.

This is wonderful news! Now I know I can buy property here and also rent it out legally, based on your assurances.

Please tell me: how can I connect with such a lawyer, who will pay the fine or go to jail for me if he is wrong?

Dont forget to register for tax.

colinoscapee wrote:

Kiwiming wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Have you looked at transferwise?

Hi Andy,

Yes, I have but I needs to show money coming into my account in Vietnam as proof for future when I decide to sell the apartment and take the money out of the country.  That is what I have been told by the agent!

You can get the transfer deposit from transferwise and also the bank statement showing the funds into your VN account.

Just read some negative reviews on transferwise and am not keen to try with such a big amount.  Do you or anyone have any other suggestion. Much appreciated.

Kiwiming

Your'e going to have to use a bank if you are really worried about it. Why dont you open a bank account here with a local bank. Just check with them first about there fees and transfer rate. With that amount you are going to have to pay or you can try this   https://www.worldremit.com/en/vietnam

Kiwiming wrote:

Andy,

Thank you for the advice.  I did a smaller transfer to trial out the rate and fee through internet banking last month for an amount of 100 million dongs, and I've got charged HKD265 for internet banking fee and another one for HKD760 and I submitted that the sender (me) pays the fee.  How do you do it with only $25 fee?

Regards,
Kiwiming

I think it depends on the combination of the 2 banks in 2 different countries.

I can't transfer VND via my Swiss bank. So I transfer CHF to my Vietnamese bank account, which would have to run through some correspondent bank.
It's a SWIFT wire transfer with OUR option (sender pays all costs).
This costs me CHF 24 (regardless of the amount transferred) and the transfer to my Sacombank account takes about 24 hours. Sacombank does not charge any further fees. The exchange rate is also not very bad.

I think the combination of my Swiss bank and Sacombank is quite good.
However, as in your case, this can also be different.

With TransferWise I pay 0.8% fee (CHF to VND) and the exchange rate is usually better than with wire transfer from bank to bank via a correspondent bank.
As I have seen, the TransferWise fee from HKD to VND are 1.3%.

I think fee HKD 265 is always charged, regardless of the wire transfer amount.
Regarding the HKD760, you should ask HSBC if this fee is dependent on the amount of the wire transfer. Through the trial wire transfer of 100 million dong you can also see the exchange rate.
Then you can see at TrasferWise how much HKD you would have to pay for 2.2 billion Dong and compare it with a bank to bank wire transfer.
But there should be the possibility to open an account in HKD at TransferWise (I don't know if this is possible), otherwise you have to pay exchange rate fees twice.

Here is a link where international wire transfers is quite well described.
The link seems to be from a company like TransferWise. But I don't know anything about it.
https://www.veem.com/blog/international … er-fees-2/

Andy Passenger wrote:

Kiwiming wrote:

Andy,

Thank you for the advice.  I did a smaller transfer to trial out the rate and fee through internet banking last month for an amount of 100 million dongs, and I've got charged HKD265 for internet banking fee and another one for HKD760 and I submitted that the sender (me) pays the fee.  How do you do it with only $25 fee?

Regards,
Kiwiming

I think it depends on the combination of the 2 banks in 2 different countries.

I can't transfer VND via my Swiss bank. So I transfer CHF to my Vietnamese bank account, which would have to run through some correspondent bank.
It's a SWIFT wire transfer with OUR option (sender pays all costs).
This costs me CHF 24 (regardless of the amount transferred) and the transfer to my Sacombank account takes about 24 hours. Sacombank does not charge any further fees. The exchange rate is also not very bad.

I think the combination of my Swiss bank and Sacombank is quite good.
However, as in your case, this can also be different.

With TransferWise I pay 0.8% fee (CHF to VND) and the exchange rate is usually better than with wire transfer from bank to bank via a correspondent bank.
As I have seen, the TransferWise fee from HKD to VND are 1.3%.

I think fee HKD 265 is always charged, regardless of the wire transfer amount.
Regarding the HKD760, you should ask HSBC if this fee is dependent on the amount of the wire transfer. Through the trial wire transfer of 100 million dong you can also see the exchange rate.
Then you can see at TrasferWise how much HKD you would have to pay for 2.2 billion Dong and compare it with a bank to bank wire transfer.
But there should be the possibility to open an account in HKD at TransferWise (I don't know if this is possible), otherwise you have to pay exchange rate fees twice.

Here is a link where international wire transfers is quite well described.
The link seems to be from a company like TransferWise. But I don't know anything about it.
https://www.veem.com/blog/international … er-fees-2/

Hi Andy,

Thank you for your help.  I'm thinking going to the bank might be better for this big amount and for peace of mind even though it is more expensive and I have setup an account in Standard Chartered in Vietnam.

Yes, I have learnt that the HKD265 is the TT fee and the other is sender pays all cost fee, the bigger the amount, the bigger the fee.

colinoscapee wrote:

Your'e going to have to use a bank if you are really worried about it. Why dont you open a bank account here with a local bank. Just check with them first about there fees and transfer rate. With that amount you are going to have to pay or you can try this   https://www.worldremit.com/en/vietnam

Thank you.  I have setup an account in Vietnam already with Standard Chartered Bank, they give me such a bad rate but maybe no choice for peace of mind.

I have checked the above link you gave me, they cannot do such a big amount for me.  Thanks for your help.

Laurent futur Nha Trang wrote:

Kiwiming wrote:

Hi there,

I have just bought an apartment in HCMC and hoping to rent out once settled.  At the moment, I am having trouble trying to transfer money from Hong Kong dollars to Vietnamese dongs and as far as I can see, you cannot do it.  Can only transfer from HKD to HKD and then the correspondence bank (in Vietnam) will convert it into VND.  Is there anyway I can do it without getting hit with a big fee and bad exchange rate?

Thanks in advance.
Kiwiming

You are speaking about a big fee and a bad exchange rate. How much exactly ? For which amount to transfer ? In which vietnamese bank ?

It was for 2.2Billion Dongs, from HKD to HKD then the Standard Chartered Bank in Vietnam (which I have just opened) convert the HKD to VND and the rate they give me is so bad.

@Kiwiming

I have just seen that the "Inward Remittance in FCY" at Standard Chartered Bank Vietnam is free.
https://www.sc.com/global/av/vn-individ … tariff.pdf

It seems that the your bank in Hong Kong is the reason for high fees.
Maybe you can use another bank in Hong Kong for the wire transfer.

Andy Passenger wrote:

@Kiwiming

I have just seen that the "Inward Remittance in FCY" at Standard Chartered Bank Vietnam is free.
https://www.sc.com/global/av/vn-individ … tariff.pdf

It seems that the your bank in Hong Kong is the reason for high fees.
Maybe you can use another bank in Hong Kong for the wire transfer.

Yes I know.
Kiwiming

Andy Passenger wrote:

Kiwiming wrote:

Hi there,

I have just bought an apartment in HCMC and hoping to rent out once settled.  At the moment, I am having trouble trying to transfer money from Hong Kong dollars to Vietnamese dongs and as far as I can see, you cannot do it.  Can only transfer from HKD to HKD and then the correspondence bank (in Vietnam) will convert it into VND.  Is there anyway I can do it without getting hit with a big fee and bad exchange rate?

Thanks in advance.
Kiwiming

I don't think there's any better solution.
I am in the same situation and have to transfer CHF to Vietnam.
The exchange rate through the correspondent bank is not very good, but the fees are about 25$ which is not very much with 3 billion Dong.
You have to make a SWIFT transfer with the option OUR (sender pays costs) at your bank in Hong Kong, then the fee should be about $25 regardless of the amount transferred.

If you use TransferWise, the exchange rate is better, but the fees for this high amount are substantial and cancel out the better exchange rate.

Someone here in the forum probably will suggesting Bitcoin as a good alternative for moving money. 
I personally say, if you are a gambler nature, you can try.

Thanks Andy for your information.
Kiwiming

Yes Yogi. I've come across a number of expats buying apartments here for lots of money. It amazes me when rents are so cheap. When you could invest the money in cash or stocks etc that you would pay for an apartment here it would easily pay for  a nice rental and the capital is safe.Speculation in VN is only for  the very cunning and idiots. Rents here are tied to incomes. House prices are tied to the greater fool and there appears to be an abundance of them here.
There is already an oversupply of expat apartments but they are still building like crazy.
There's are very strong possibility of a recession in the near future and this along with oversupply and ridiculous high prices will mean a lot of big timers are going to get seriously burnt whilst us renters will have a picnic.
But belief is always stronger than logic and we will see this in dramatic technicolor in the near future.

"There is already an oversupply of expat apartments but they are still building like crazy. "

Only 30% of an apartment block can be sold to a foreign buyer, the bulk of it is for the locals. Not sure about your "expat apartments" comment.

Yes. Expat apartments equal apartments that foreigners can buy. I understand that Koreans and Chinese are the big buyers but I know European and Americans who have bought as'investments' also. One American has just bought 3 and is convinced that he will find tenants and then flip them and make a fortune. I seriously doubt it.

Seasteader wrote:

Yes. Expat apartments equal apartments that foreigners can buy. I understand that Koreans and Chinese are the big buyers but I know European and Americans who have bought as'investments' also. One American has just bought 3 and is convinced that he will find tenants and then flip them and make a fortune. I seriously doubt it.

Thats why I prefer to buy land, less problems.

Buy, buy fool

vietcong161 wrote:

Buy, buy fool

You're an unfortunate person.

If you have nothing else to say you should let it go and look for a girlfriend or a hobby instead of spreading such insults.

I think people like you have failed a few times in life and/or have been ripped off (probably because of their own stupidity) and are now frustrated that others have more success.

There are many here in the forum who have apparently failed and are now being ripped off and now generally assume that the others are also doomed to failure.  But maybe the others just did it better than you.

My ex-girtfriend, who I have remained friends with, made 250k usd last year from buying and selling land. Maybe Vietcong doesnt have a set, so is scared to have a go. Buying and selling here is not for the faint-hearted, but the rewards can be very big.

I had the impression that vietcong161 was referring to purchasing apartments, not land.  Nonetheless, there does seem to be a situation where the prices of land are unsustainable relative to national average incomes.  At what point will all available land in the country be held by Viet Kieu dual citizens and a few government officials?  Nobody can say if it will be this year, or next, or even 5 years from now but eventually something will have to give.  In the meantime, there is surely a lot of money to be made as long as you keep pulling out profits and don't get caught holding too much when the downturn comes.

THIGV wrote:

I had the impression that vietcong161 was referring to purchasing apartments, not land.  Nonetheless, there does seem to be a situation where the prices of land are unsustainable relative to national average incomes.  At what point will all available land in the country be held by Viet Kieu dual citizens and a few government officials?  Nobody can say if it will be this year, or next, or even 5 years from now but eventually something will have to give.  In the meantime, there is surely a lot of money to be made as long as you keep pulling out profits and don't get caught holding too much when the downturn comes.

Without Vietcong placing a previous post as a part of his post, who knows what he is referring to.
In relation to the real estate bust, 2008 in the US tells us a lot. It can happen anywhere, not just VN.

THIGV wrote:

At what point will all available land in the country be held by Viet Kieu dual citizens and a few government officials?

A good amount (maybe even most) of the prime real estate has already been bought and sold by the local officials. They usually buy large plots of land, subdivide it, and sell each lot individually. Not many are interested in holding on to the land long-term as the deed is usually under their a family member's name in order to avoid audits.

As for the price of land being unsustainable relative to national average income... You are correct, however, I don't think anything will give. Owners will just convert their land into a nhà trọ and become landlords.

THIGV wrote:

I had the impression that vietcong161 was referring to purchasing apartments, not land.  Nonetheless, there does seem to be a situation where the prices of land are unsustainable relative to national average incomes.  At what point will all available land in the country be held by Viet Kieu dual citizens and a few government officials?  Nobody can say if it will be this year, or next, or even 5 years from now but eventually something will have to give.  In the meantime, there is surely a lot of money to be made as long as you keep pulling out profits and don't get caught holding too much when the downturn comes.

I think you are correct in some aspects.  I think the entire consumer market, including cars, is being driven by "extra" money, whether from Viet Kieu or those who have taken advantage of their positions, and yes, probably for large land speculations also.
That's a slippery slope, and if the government is not careful,  they will end up with a system of all the wealth of the country in the hands of a crooked few. I don't think that's what Ho Chi Minh envisioned.

But having said all of that,  what I think many are missing,  is the extremely high (compared to western countries) savings rate in Vietnam.  There is none of the consumer debt and mortgage debt that exists in China and S. Korea.

In my gf's neighborhood,  the houses are being expanded,  bought and sold,  and it's all savings money,  no Viet Kieu, no crooked gov't people.

Where's a good place to rent a property on the beach for the same price as utilities back home?

greyisbetter wrote:

Where's a good place to rent a property on the beach for the same price as utilities back home?

How much is your "utilities back home"?

Ciambella wrote:

greyisbetter wrote:

Where's a good place to rent a property on the beach for the same price as utilities back home?

How much is your "utilities back home"?

My exact thoughts, maybe it's a quiz and you have to either know or guess.

greyisbetter wrote:

Where's a good place to rent a property on the beach for the same price as utilities back home?

If you are still on the 'blacklist', try Nicaragua...

I bought 2 apts and 1 house.
1 apt in my private name.
The other apt and the house in my company name, just because safer.

I rent a private room in the apt where I live. No problem.
The other apt I will rent to a private person. Cannot rent to a company.

All above validated by my lawyer.

Ciambella wrote:

greyisbetter wrote:

Where's a good place to rent a property on the beach for the same price as utilities back home?

How much is your "utilities back home"?

Yogi reminiscing,

Electricity                       $350 month
Phone, Net, Pay TV       200.   ,,
Council Rates.                350.  ,,
Home ins.                         80.  ,,

There's a $1000 a month without looking any further beyond Yogis den.

And that's about 8 years ago......

If you want to throw in 2 Motor vehicles & 3 motorcycles......Insurance, Registrations etc 😳😳😳

A mate of mine recently told me it costs him $35 in road tolls to drive across Sydney (Australia) ,,and thats one way only,,,😳

To answer the question.....Yes , you can rent a nice place here for the cost of household utilities back “home”.

Yogi007 wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

greyisbetter wrote:

Where's a good place to rent a property on the beach for the same price as utilities back home?

How much is your "utilities back home"?

Yogi reminiscing,

Electricity                       $350 month
Phone, Net, Pay TV       200.   ,,
Council Rates.                350.  ,,
Home ins.                         80.  ,,

There's a $1000 a month without looking any further beyond Yogis den.

And that's about 8 years ago......

If you want to throw in 2 Motor vehicles & 3 motorcycles......Insurance, Registrations etc 😳😳😳

A mate of mine recently told me it costs him $35 in road tolls to drive across Sydney (Australia) ,,and thats one way only,,,😳

To answer the question.....Yes , you can rent a nice place here for the cost of household utilities back “home”.

Those costs if your a home owner, if you are just a renter then rates and insurance wont come into it.