Moving to Medan, and visas

Marriage doesn't automatically mean you can get a KITAS but there's little reason why you should be rejected.
The process is generally easy enough but make sure you have legalised copies of your birth and marriage certificates. It involves a trip or 20 to the local immigration office, a lot of not getting angry when they ask for one more piece of paper they didn't mention on the last five visits, and some serious cool when you return with the paper and they decide they don't need it. (Think I'm joking? You'll see )

LINK

Outside the cities a hundred grand will buy you a lot of house but you may have other issues to consider. Property is owned 50/50 in an Indonesian marriage and foreigners aren't allowed to own land. A prenup sorts that out and there was talk of a postnup but I have no clue if that ever happened.
Rental is a safe option and can come in cheap, very cheap if your level of fussiness decreases. A fair house in a village or small town can be had for Rp5 million/year (Less than 300 quid). There's nothing to say you have to live the expat lifestyle, and I find it's a far better experience to mix with the local community anyway.
I'm looking at house prices over there as I type and they start cheap, that likely meaning rentals are going to cost not much.

Smoking is cheap so not doing it won't save much but booze and parties are silly money. Leaving them alone will save you a bomb.

Working is a naughty no no on a wife sponsored KITAS... but

Keep immigration informed and you'll probably end up doing school visits, all informal and free .. but you get 'transport money'. It isn't much but it's usually enough to keep you in local style food for a week.
This is illegal but only if the local cops and immigration want to make it so, and there's a better than average chance they're the ones to set it up for you. When you get a KITAP after two years, it's legal as long as it remains informal.

Maybe worth looking into starting the ball rolling with a wife sponsored KITAS in the UK (I can't say if it's possible) the reason I say this you'll be entitled to travel warrants and I'm presuming you was either in the 1975 and or 2005 scheme with regard to your service pension?

You'll also get financing assistance with trade conversions/ training conversions

If I was you I would get your Mrs to call the Indonesian Embassay in London to confirm, could well stop the dragging backsides around Indonesia as Fred has mentioned
And you'll get your free travel warrants “bonus”

I'm sure you are aware but depending on length of service you can get your payment earlier (this could well be the case with you and from memory it was around 15/18 years service for medical discharge???) I left in 1995

The postnuptial has come into effect as me and my Mrs have one (but be aware it doesn't carry as much weight as a prenup but similar) however we also got this done in Thailand as we was told it has to be prepared in the country of marriage (can't confirm how accurate this is though and was only £25 in Thailand including translation but significantly more to prepare etc in Indonesia)

I would certainly rent than put all my eggs into one basket and if your not into getting hammered at weekends you'll be fine financially for a good while

Where did you get married? Are you both the same religion?
If marriage took place out of Indonesia again get the Mrs to call Embassay and see how you can register it in Indonesia
She'll also have to update her ID if not already and the KK etc
If she has her old passport use it with the new one or letter from Embassay (if she hasn't returned last few years)
If she has a uk one don't use it as she will have to surrender it to own property/ land

If you have kids get them Indonesian passports if not already they can hold dual passports till about age 18

Gwmeath wrote:

If you have kids get them Indonesian passports if not already they can hold dual passports till about age 18

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's 17

You could well be right but I know for certain they is a cooling period of 2/3 years

Cheers for the replys, I apreciate your time. We got married in Indonesia in 1999 and then moved to the UK. We have little idea about the prosess of living in Indonesia and really where we want to live. My wife is from Sumatra Ache, and for my self I dont want to live there, for religous reasons I want some freedom. On the house front thats out of my hands my wife wants her own house and ive agreed to give her half the money to do so. Im just trying to understand the complexities of living and getting a visa.

Would it be possible if I cant gain a kitas to be more of a nomad and live in between a couple of countries for a month or so in each. It does seem a lot of hassle to gain a visa.

Myself I would get your wife to start the beall rolling with the Indonesian Embassay in London, my wife has dealt with them whilst she was in the uk, they was pretty ok to be honest, if they can't assist with the process at least you'll have a heads up on what's what,  and any up to date documents etc but I would find it unusual if they can't assist and hopefully you could finish the formalities in Indonesia.
pretty wise in my opinion north Sumarna and your thoughts about it

When I haven't had a KITAS I've nwver had an issue doing the couple of hours trip out the country nor have any other expats I know personally, some Nationalalities appear to be more frowned upon than other possibly for over staying or working illegally,
In my location it's only £25 return on the ferry to Singapore so expense wise it's nothing KITAS or not I go 2/3 weekly at least for shopping and cheap litre bottles of plonk (get together gifts)
Renew your passport if need be as that can help better still get one of the pencil pushers in your regiment to sign of a letter for a second passport I've had two for years gives a massive feeling of security tbh

First to Aceh.
The news is full of whips and tends to give the impression there are gangs of masked demi-terrorist extremist Muslims wandering the streets hunting for anyone wearing the wrong sort of T shirt. I'm not a fan of their system of government but, now I've visited the place, I have found the newspapers' version of 'truth' to be a load of old spherical objects. The place is safe, cheap, and the people are friendly.
No booze but coffee shops like you wouldn't believe and the food is pretty good.

A MERP exit/re-entry bolt on to your KITAS solves the travelling and two countries thing but it should be noted, if you wish to apply for Indonesian citizenship at some point in the future, your minimum time with visas is ten years, not the five for those with continuous stay here.
Probably not an issue but you never know.

Hassle for a KiTAS is minimal for most with a wife sponsored application, more so if you're from a 'rich' country and (kills me to say this but it's often true) white.
Your long term marriage will pretty much rubber stamp the application.
That allows you a one year stay, renewal commonly pretty easy to sort out.

A KITAS costs about 50 quid, the MERP is a little more but I've never had one and don't know the price.

Visa 317 kitas is suitable for you since your married with indobesian

Some requirements to process are:

1.your wife ktp
2.your wife kk
3.marriage certificate

Others im sure you have.

cheers!

Leepeter1975 wrote:

Hi, im currently living in the UK with my Indonesian wife and have been for the last 19 years. We are now considering moving back to Sumatra and need some advice. Has my wife has not lived in Indonesia in all that time, but still holds an Indonesian passport can I still get a married kita.
I understand even if I obtain a visa im unable to take paid work, so the next question is about finances.

Im  currently in the forces and maybe discharged through disability im 43 and due to start picking up my pension at 55 so ive got 12 years to go before I get any money from that. We have worked out that we will have about £100.000 to buy a small house and to live till then. I know Indonesia is cheap but is this budget totally unreasable. We don,t drink, smoke and Im not a party animal, I was thinking of moving to Bukit lawang and have seen hotels for £2 a night. I have been to Indonesia but not for many years and apreciate any advice.

Hello LeePete!
FIRSTLY, If you and your wife is living in UK for 19 years and your wife havent report herself to Indonesia about every 5 years then your wife can loose her citizenship.
SECONDLY, When she lose her Indonesian citizenship then you both as a foreigner cant buy any kind of propert in Indonesia.
THIRD, You now have to apply for Retirement visa to settle in Indonesia again OR your wife's family can act as your sponsor.
FOURTH, you and your wife can not work in Indonesia until or unless you have a working visa.
FIFTH, You can buy a property but it will be on your Wife's family name. It can be anybody who she trust so much, any member of the family

I'm unsure if someone can loose Indonesian citizenship by not keeping their passport up to date, even if they aren't in Indonesia, but it might me hard work getting a new passport from abroad after such a long time. If the lady has taken UK citizenship, her Indonesian citizenship is lost so she would need a KITAS, but getting it back is possible.

An Indonesian, even if they have been away from the country for many years, still has the right to work freely in Indonesia upon return unless they've renounced citizenship.

Yes Fred that is what I quoted: That if a Indonesian national fails to report consecutively 5 years to Indonesian Govt. then she can loose her Nationality and as a result she can't work in Indonesia until or unless she have work permit

osama297 wrote:

Yes Fred that is what I quoted: That if a Indonesian national fails to report consecutively 5 years to Indonesian Govt. then she can loose her Nationality and as a result she can't work in Indonesia until or unless she have work permit

I've read this before and is true, It's always been advised for any foreign national to inform your home country embassay/ consulate about your whereabouts and intentions whilst overseas
I would imagine the circumstances could be explained on her reason for 19years and no passport but convincing Indonesia authorities may be a problem
I could be wrong but if she has no passport how was her leave in the uk so prolonged? As I may be wrong but after xyz amount of years you can apply for a uk passport if dual passport holder / becomes British its highly likely Indonesia will disown her due to her taking an oath to a different country

Gwmeath wrote:

osama297 wrote:

Yes Fred that is what I quoted: That if a Indonesian national fails to report consecutively 5 years to Indonesian Govt. then she can loose her Nationality and as a result she can't work in Indonesia until or unless she have work permit

I've read this before and is true, It's always been advised for any foreign national to inform your home country embassay/ consulate about your whereabouts and intentions whilst overseas
I would imagine the circumstances could be explained on her reason for 19years and no passport but convincing Indonesia authorities may be a problem
I could be wrong but if she has no passport how was her leave in the uk so prolonged? As I may be wrong but after xyz amount of years you can apply for a uk passport if dual passport holder / becomes British its highly likely Indonesia will disown her due to her taking an oath to a different country

Exactly and its impossible for her to convince Indonesian authorities as they have all the Information for each of their citizens and yes Indonesian dont consider dual citizenship and if she applyed for British Citizenship then it means she looses her Citizenship of Indonesia automatically

Gwmeath wrote:

osama297 wrote:

Yes Fred that is what I quoted: That if a Indonesian national fails to report consecutively 5 years to Indonesian Govt. then she can loose her Nationality and as a result she can't work in Indonesia until or unless she have work permit

I've read this before and is true, It's always been advised for any foreign national to inform your home country embassay/ consulate about your whereabouts and intentions whilst overseas
I would imagine the circumstances could be explained on her reason for 19years and no passport but convincing Indonesia authorities may be a problem
I could be wrong but if she has no passport how was her leave in the uk so prolonged? As I may be wrong but after xyz amount of years you can apply for a uk passport if dual passport holder / becomes British its highly likely Indonesia will disown her due to her taking an oath to a different country

This law is based on jus sanguinis and jus soli in Indonesia and is strictly applyed

osama297 wrote:

FIRSTLY, If you and your wife is living in UK for 19 years and your wife havent report herself to Indonesia about every 5 years then your wife can loose her citizenship.

I believe that requires a reference from an Indonesian government site as removing citizenship from a person with no second nationality would potentially contravene international law on the grounds it would leave a person stateless.
It is an absolute someone taking a new citizenship automatically loses their right to be Indonesian, but I'm not very sure about your assertion of not reporting.
It might well make getting a replacement passport hard work, but perhaps you could link to the law that states an Indonesian's citizenship will be revoked if they fail to renew their passport.
I can't find it but my Indonesian is far from perfect so I might well have missed it.

osama297 wrote:

This law is based on jus sanguinis and jus soli in Indonesia and is strictly applyed

No, it isn't.

The first is citizenship by blood, something that works all over the world, except the Vatican where celibacy means such a law is a bit pointless, but only applies until adulthood to people born to an Indonesian and a foreigner. At that point, the person has to choose nationality.

The second is automatic citizenship because you are born in a given country, something Indonesia does not recognize.
A baby born to 2 foreigners in Indonesia is not Indonesian so would have to go through the citizenship process like any other foreigner.

Gwmeath wrote:

I would imagine the circumstances could be explained on her reason for 19years and no passport but convincing Indonesia authorities may be a problem
I could be wrong but if she has no passport how was her leave in the uk so prolonged? As I may be wrong but after xyz amount of years you can apply for a uk passport if dual passport holder / becomes British its highly likely Indonesia will disown her due to her taking an oath to a different country

Taking a British passport would absolutely exclude her from Indonesian citizenship without renouncing UK citizenship as part of the process of regaining Indonesian citizenship.

It's very possible replacing her Indonesian passport would be unnecessary if the lady has permanent leave to remain in the UK by reason of marriage. There would be no requirement to report to UK immigration and, assuming she had no wish to travel outside the UK, there would be no actual need for any passport at all.

However, getting a new passport might well mean dancing through hoops after such a long time. Still, no need to get our knickers in a twist as the OP states she has one.

That means the only issues regarding the assertion an Indonesian will be denied citizenship, or even a passport, after a long time abroad without one is something for future readers, not the OP that posted this a year or so ago.

Fred wrote:

osama297 wrote:

This law is based on jus sanguinis and jus soli in Indonesia and is strictly applyed

No, it isn't.

The first is citizenship by blood, something that works all over the world, except the Vatican where celibacy means such a law is a bit pointless, but only applies until adulthood to people born to an Indonesian and a foreigner. At that point, the person has to choose nationality.

The second is automatic citizenship because you are born in a given country, something Indonesia does not recognize.
A baby born to 2 foreigners in Indonesia is not Indonesian so would have to go through the citizenship process like any other foreigner.

It is Mr. Fred. I would prefer you to read Long Title (An act related to  Indonesian Citizens)

That is what am I exactly trying to say Mr. Fred with less twists and turns and in a simple way 😅🤗 so if they have some confusion even now then it can be clear plus for future readers as well.

Fred wrote:

Gwmeath wrote:

I would imagine the circumstances could be explained on her reason for 19years and no passport but convincing Indonesia authorities may be a problem
I could be wrong but if she has no passport how was her leave in the uk so prolonged? As I may be wrong but after xyz amount of years you can apply for a uk passport if dual passport holder / becomes British its highly likely Indonesia will disown her due to her taking an oath to a different country

Taking a British passport would absolutely exclude her from Indonesian citizenship without renouncing UK citizenship as part of the process of regaining Indonesian citizenship.

It's very possible replacing her Indonesian passport would be unnecessary if the lady has permanent leave to remain in the UK by reason of marriage. There would be no requirement to report to UK immigration and, assuming she had no wish to travel outside the UK, there would be no actual need for any passport at all.

However, getting a new passport might well mean dancing through hoops after such a long time. Still, no need to get our knickers in a twist as the OP states she has one.

That means the only issues regarding the assertion an Indonesian will be denied citizenship, or even a passport, after a long time abroad without one is something for future readers, not the OP that posted this a year or so ago.

That is what am I exactly trying to say Mr. Fred with less twists and turns and in a simple way 😅🤗 so if they have some confusion even now then it can be clear plus for future readers as well.

osama297 wrote:

It is Mr. Fred. I would prefer you to read Long Title (An act related to  Indonesian Citizens)

UU number??, pasal ??

If you could quote it for the benefit of future readers, that would be spiffing as I'm unfamiliar with it and can't find it.

Fred wrote:

osama297 wrote:

It is Mr. Fred. I would prefer you to read Long Title (An act related to  Indonesian Citizens)

UU number??, pasal ??

If you could quote it for the benefit of future readers, that would be spiffing as I'm unfamiliar with it and can't find it.

For sure Mr. Fred! 😊

LAW NO. 62 OF 1958, LAW ON THE CITIZENSHIP OF THE REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA:

Article 17:
The citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia is lost because of:
a.acquiring another nationality out of one's own free will, with the understanding that if the person concerned is, at the time that said other nationality is acquired, in the territory of the Republic of Indonesia, the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia is only considered lost if the Minister of Justice declares it lost with the approval of the Cabinet Council on its own initiative or on the request of the person concerned;

b.not having rejected or having released another nationality whilst the person concerned has had the opportunity as to that effect;

c.being recognized by an alien as his/her child if the person concerned has not reached the age of 18 and is not married yet and does not become stateless with the loss of the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia;

d.being legally adopted by an alien as his/her child if the child concerned has not reached the age of 5 yet and it does not become stateless at the loss of the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia;

e.being declared as lost by the Minister of Justice with the approval of the Cabinet Council on the request of the person concerned if the person has reached the age of 21, is domiciled abroad and does not become stateless at the declaration of the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia as being lost;

f.entering a foreign military service without prior permission from the Minister of Justice;

g.without prior permission form the Minister of Justice, entering a foreign state's service or the services of an organization of nations not entered by the Republic of Indonesia as member, if the position held in the state's service may, according to the regulations of the Republic of Indonesia, only be held by a citizen or the position in said nation organization service requires on oath or official promise;

h.taking the oath or making the promise of loyalty to a foreign country or a part thereof;

i.without being obliged, participating in a vote for one and another of constitutional nature for a foreign country;

j.having a passport or certificate which has the character of a passport from a foreign country in one's name which is still valid;

k.other than for state's service, domiciling abroad during 5 consecutive years by not declaring one's wish as to continue being a citizen before the period has lapsed and thereafter every two years; such a wish shall be declared to the Representation of the Republic of Indonesia at one's residence.

For citizens of the Republic of Indonesia who have not reached the age of 18 yet, except if they are married, the five and two years' period mentioned above is applicable as of the date that he reaches the age of 18.

ARTICLE 18:
A person who looses the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia as mentioned in article 17 letter k. regains the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia if the person is domiciled in Indonesia based on an Entry Permit and makes a statement as to that effect. Such a statement shall be made to the Pengadilan Negeri at the residence of the person within 1 year after the person is domiciled in Indonesia.

You can also check my IG as we have made a Mix Marriage Community and help people for their marriage process as well! 😀

...will answer when the post with contact details returns

Fred wrote:

...will answer when the post with contact details returns

LAW NO. 62 OF 1958 LAW ON THE CITIZENSHIP OF THE REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA:

ARTICLE 17.
The citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia is lost because of:
a.acquiring another nationality out of one's own free will, with the understanding that if the person concerned is, at the time that said other nationality is acquired, in the territory of the Republic of Indonesia, the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia is only considered lost if the Minister of Justice declares it lost with the approval of the Cabinet Council on its own initiative or on the request of the person concerned;

b.not having rejected or having released another nationality whilst the person concerned has had the opportunity as to that effect;

c.being recognized by an alien as his/her child if the person concerned has not reached the age of 18 and is not married yet and does not become stateless with the loss of the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia;

d.being legally adopted by an alien as his/her child if the child concerned has not reached the age of 5 yet and it does not become stateless at the loss of the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia;

e.being declared as lost by the Minister of Justice with the approval of the Cabinet Council on the request of the person concerned if the person has reached the age of 21, is domiciled abroad and does not become stateless at the declaration of the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia as being lost;

f.entering a foreign military service without prior permission from the Minister of Justice;

g.without prior permission form the Minister of Justice, entering a foreign state's service or the services of an organization of nations not entered by the Republic of Indonesia as member, if the position held in the state's service may, according to the regulations of the Republic of Indonesia, only be held by a citizen or the position in said nation organization service requires on oath or official promise;

h.taking the oath or making the promise of loyalty to a foreign country or a part thereof;

i.without being obliged, participating in a vote for one and another of constitutional nature for a foreign country;

j.having a passport or certificate which has the character of a passport from a foreign country in one's name which is still valid;

k.other than for state's service, domiciling abroad during 5 consecutive years by not declaring one's wish as to continue being a citizen before the period has lapsed and thereafter every two years; such a wish shall be declared to the Representation of the Republic of Indonesia at one's residence.

For citizens of the Republic of Indonesia who have not reached the age of 18 yet, except if they are married, the five and two years' period mentioned above is applicable as of the date that he reaches the age of 18.

ARTICLE 18.
A person who looses the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia as mentioned in article 17 letter k. regains the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia if the person is domiciled in Indonesia based on an Entry Permit and makes a statement as to that effect. Such a statement shall be made to the Pengadilan Negeri at the residence of the person within 1 year after the person is domiciled in Indonesia.

Try UU 12/ 2006 pasal 23

It confirms what I said

Fred wrote:

Try UU 12/ 2006 pasal 23

It confirms what I said

Mr Fred, The same thing im trying to say to you and by the way the law didnt change in 2006 too. Which I posted is same as that.
Secondly, I just said in simple wordings as you told but in a formal way in which you can confuse the future or present readers.
Thank You! 😊

The confusion is your incorrect information.

There is no law that says an Indonesian can loose citizenship by not reporting without a lot more happening first, and citizenship loss can't happen at all if they would become stateless as a result.

In other words, the information in your posts is wrong because you're posting out of date info based on out of date laws that have not applied for many years.

Both year laws are totally and there is no incorrect information. If you wish to read it, clearly, it states that an Indonesian can loose their citizenship in these conditions. I will prefer you to ask from Indonesian Immigration as they can tell you the same thing as me as me and my wife had already recently checked with Immigration. Thank You!

Fred wrote:

Try UU 12/ 2006 pasal 23

It confirms what I said

An  Indonesian  citizen  will  lose  their  citizenship  due  to  the  following:

a.  Acquires  another  citizenship  voluntarily;

b.  Wil  not  refuse  or  will  not  relinquish  other  citizenship  when  the  incumbent  has  the  opportunity to  do  so;  ww.parlemen.net

c. Is  declared  of  having  relinquished  their  citizenship  by  the  President  at  their  voluntary  request, the  person  is  aged  above  18  (eighteen)  or  has  married,  is  living  abroad,  and  with  the relinquishment of  their  citizenship  does  not  become  stateless  because  of  it;

d.  Has entered  into  foreign  military  service  without prior  approval  from  the  President;

e.  Has  voluntarily  entered  into  the  services  of  foreign  entities  in  a  position  where  by  law,  such  a position  in  Indonesia  is  only  reserved  for  citizens  of  the  Republic of  Indonesia;

f. Has  voluntarily  declared  allegiance  to  a  foreign  country  or  part of  the  said  foreign  country;

g.  Was  not  obligated  but  has  voluntarily  participated  in  a  referendum  that  is  civic  in  nature  for  a foreign  country;

h. i. Possesses  a  passport  or  travel  document  equivalent  to  a  passport  from  a  foreign  country  or  a letter  that  may  be  construed  as  a  valid  citizenship  identity  from  another  country  on  his/her name; 

or Living  outside  the  territories  of  the  Rep.  of  Indonesia  for  5  (five)  consecutive  years  for  non official  purposes,  without  legal  reason  and  deliberately  refuses  to  declare  their  intention  to remain  as  Indonesian  citizens  before  the  5  (five)  year  limit  ends,  and  in  each  of  the  next  5 (five)  years  the  said  person  fails  to  declare  their  intention  of  retaining  their  citizenship  to  the Indonesian  Representative  offices  in  which  the  said  person's  residence  is  under  their jurisdiction  although  the  said  Representative  Office  has  duly  informed  them  in  writing,  as  long as  the  incumbent does  not  become  stateless  because  of  such  negligence.

That's a lot more than not updating your passport.

osama297 wrote:

Both year laws are totally and there is no incorrect information. If you wish to read it, clearly, it states that an Indonesian can loose their citizenship in these conditions. I will prefer you to ask from Indonesian Immigration as they can tell you the same thing as me as me and my wife had already recently checked with Immigration. Thank You!

No, this is wrong.
Perhaps your English is a bit limited thus inhibiting your understanding.

To clarify the last part in simple sentences

The person, an Indonesian citizen  must:

Have been outside Indonesia for greater than 5 years WITHOUT LEGAL REASON

They must then refuse to confirm they wish to remain Indonesian

Then it can only happen if they have a second nationality

That pretty much limits it to criminals that have skipped the country.