Mixed married update re property ownership , perca indonesia

Of course any change will require a new law to be passed by the DPR.  Ministers are of course not empowered to change standing laws. 

"One note, the Minister reiterated to Perca , that every citizen is entitled to the status of Property Rights which are fundamental rights stipulated in the Act."

That sounds to me like encouragement to foreigners in mixed marriage with Indonesians to pursue citizenship.  For those who are here permanently, that is the best solution.

In a mixed marriage, one of the parents retain citizenship that is different would be beneficial. This enables the family members to apply easier visa and permanent resident status just in case when needed.

enduringword wrote:

In a mixed marriage, one of the parents retain citizenship that is different would be beneficial. This enables the family members to apply easier visa and permanent resident status just in case when needed.

Do you mean in order to obtain visa or permanent residence outside of Indonesia?  In other words, kids of mixed marriages looking to go to school, work or live out side Indonesia?

Yes, outside of Indonesia. Since family members often get the benefits because you often need references when applying.
I see it as getting the best of both worlds.
I am hoping dual citizenship is allowed as well if true down the track, then tremendous benefits of having two passports.
For example, I got a permanent resident of another country from my wife and my wife gets a permanent resident thru me - vice versa.

Furthermore, it is not only about visa, residence, education, etc.

It could be about business as well. You can set up a local company business through each partner citizenship, rather than applying as a foreigner. Of course, you have to have a stable marriage. If marriage goes south, you are better off seeking a lawyer or legal advices beforehand.

I am married to Indonesian lady, so can i own a property under my name?.as i dont have plans so far to apply for Indonesian citizenship.

To answer the last question, no, a foreigner married to an Indonesian spouse cannot own property in their name via a land deed, Hak Milik.  You could however have a Hak Pakai lease (which offers many of the same advantages as a Hak Milik) in your name, but, with an Indonesian spouse who could have the land in full ownership in his or her name, and assuming that prodigy is planned, there would be little point in doing that.

However, for “old timers” looking to retire in Indonesia, and preferably in the company of a young local spouse, (but with no children in the plans), then yes, a Hak Pakai for the “old timer” would make a lot of sense.   

Enduringword, I'm still trying to understand what exactly you are suggesting.  It sounds as though you advocate that in a mixed marriage, and until such time as dual citizenship is allowed, that it is better that the foreign member of that mixed marriage retains their “home” country citizenship.  It sounds like you offer that suggestion as it being easier to obtain visas and or permanent living status “for family members” (as you put it) in a country other than Indonesia.  You also suggest that this arrangement (one being a citizen, the other remaining a foreigner) would also have advantages in business. 

In either case I don't see any advantages, especially when considering necessary annual visa costs for the foreign spouse.  Moreover, much of what you suggest would depend on the requirements of the “other” country. 

For those in mixed marriages who have made the decision that Indonesia is home, and will remain home, it seems to me the most logical approach is for the foreign member of that marriage to eventually seek Indonesian citizenship.  Moreover, with some countries (the US for example) even when a citizen abdicates their US citizenship because they live in a foreign country, the reality is that their “giving up” of their citizenship is not…how shall I say…taken seriously, and they can always order up a new passport…even if their country of domicile does not recognize dual citizenship (such as Indonesia).  Perhaps other countries approach this in the same manner…but I don't know for certain.

Ubudian wrote:

To answer the last question, no, a foreigner married to an Indonesian spouse cannot own property in their name via a land deed, Hak Milik.  You could however have a Hak Pakai lease (which offers many of the same advantages as a Hak Milik) in your name, but, with an Indonesian spouse who could have the land in full ownership in his or her name, and assuming that prodigy is planned, there would be little point in doing that.

However, for “old timers” looking to retire in Indonesia, and preferably in the company of a young local spouse, (but with no children in the plans), then yes, a Hak Pakai for the “old timer” would make a lot of sense.   

Enduringword, I'm still trying to understand what exactly you are suggesting.  It sounds as though you advocate that in a mixed marriage, and until such time as dual citizenship is allowed, that it is better that the foreign member of that mixed marriage retains their “home” country citizenship.  It sounds like you offer that suggestion as it being easier to obtain visas and or permanent living status “for family members” (as you put it) in a country other than Indonesia.  You also suggest that this arrangement (one being a citizen, the other remaining a foreigner) would also have advantages in business. 

In either case I don't see any advantages, especially when considering necessary annual visa costs for the foreign spouse.  Moreover, much of what you suggest would depend on the requirements of the “other” country.

Thanks Dear Ubudian, for the full clarification, i also heared that Jokowi plans to allow dual citizenship for indonesian, if its true, it will be a great help for millioins of indo ppl who reside overseas.

Holding two citizenships is a possibility for the future, but there will be a lot of opposition to that one.
However, Indonesia has moved a lot on expat issues over the last 15 years, so it's reasonably likely in the medium term.

if Visa cost is not a problem, the benefits of retaining citizenship of your partner outweighs most other things.

If one has  to renounce citizenship and retake it again, it would really not looking good in the eyes of many governments.

Has anyone did it before here? Renounces citizenship and regain it again. How was the experience.

As for the OP, thanks for highlighting the issues. I really hope they have a follow up.

This issue has been a downer for many people. And the laws concerning agraria is antiquated and many exist since colonial days. I hope the government and head of BPN can look more into mixed marriages. Let the Indonesian citizen able to hold property even though in a mixed marriage.

ya I agree , with the current law it is not legal for indonesian citizens in a mixed marriage to buy land or property , unless they have a prenup or go through a separation of assets in the courts , therefore losing some of their rights because of marriage .
Perca have been pushing to solve this problem , it seems after the latest conversation, the government finally are writing a new draft of the law to right this wrong , how long it takes to ratify is anyones guess , but at least a step in the right direction .

"if Visa cost is not a problem, the benefits of retaining citizenship of your partner outweighs most other things."

OK, so then you do think that in most cases it's best for the foreign spouse to eventually take Indonesian citizenship. 

That isn't how I was reading your prior posts, so thanks for clarifying your position.

That is the opposite of what I meant.
I dont know about others or the majority. But in my experiences, I have met more couples in mix marriages retaining their own citizenship in Indonesia or even abroad as overseas Indonesian.
And tel522 understood my points exactly.

If an expat is intending to stay for the rest of his life, I'd encourage them to fully commit by applying for Indonesian citizenship.

Rights for foreigners married to Indonesians, and loss of rights for Indonesians married to foreigners is something the government should address.
Perhaps an automatic prenup with 50/50 cash in the event of a divorce could be assumed for foreigners hitched to an Indonesian, so allowing land ownership without hassle.

Hello everyone,

I removed some posts from this thread as there were too many arguments and off topic comments. Please respect each other's post, we are here to share our experiences and not to fight.

@tel522 > do you have any information to share about your topic?

Thank you.

re your question , perca indonesia website has all the up to date news regarding mixed marriage issues , legality property etc to join you must be indonesian, as a foriegner we have no voice here , but our partner has .