Head Scarves

When you get here, just do what's comfortable.

There are no strict rules on the color and design of the scarf and cloak. The reqirement is that a woman must cover her hair and wear an outer garment that conceals the shape of her body. Period. They dont bother if its studded with Diamonds or laced with Gold thread.

musicman wrote:

The reqirement is that a woman must cover her hair

Non-Muslim women do not have to cover their hair. I never do. Ever. Ever! Ever! Ever!  If that means I encounter a mutawa once in a while, I'm fully prepared to take that chance!

Sorry Musicman, I agree with Alliecat, it's rare that I see a non Muslim with a head scarf.

agreed with allie and jill .. uh I mean Dave.

I wear coloured scarves...don't think it attracts more attention.

Alliecat, u're pretty bold. Do you carry a shawl with u just in case? Once I was at Kingdom mall and two muttawas screamed at 2 caucasian ladies next to me "THIS IS SAUDI ARABIA...COVER YOUR HAIR!"  They put it on, but needless to say, the moment the big green car drove off, it was off again. Heh.

I never cover either!  Its been recommended that I should in certain places, but haven't and have never had a problem.  I do however, have a headscarf with me (mine is green most of the time!) just incase Im approached by the Muttawa.    

SF15, I can appreciate your concern as Im sure we all can, but I wouldn't worry about it.  It really isn't as big a deal as it seems.  And FYI - even  the abayas have gotten very fancy these days.  Many have lovely designs which you can match to your personality! 

I tend to go with a lively floral design, or sometimes just a solid pastel, depending on how sassy I feel.

sassy

a person was asked what does he think of Saudi arabia. he answered; white and black.
huh, what do you mean? the first person said.
its obviouse isn't it? he replied. men are in white and women are in black.



here have a cookie.

Salman

It may be that the M's have cooled down now, esp after 911. But I have seen, first hand, Caucasian Ladies being pulled up by them for not covering their hair. I have also seen their love;ly legs being sprayed with paiunt by the Mutrawa when they wore short skirts, even knee length.

May the times are a changing but I would still not take any chances if I was a Caucasdian non Muslim lady.

The law still stands. Its the implementation thats been watereed down, I believe.

Why tempt the devil?

Yes why tempt the devil
Thank you everybody! Seems like its a matter of opinion and personal choice with a dash of bending the rules. I guess i'll get some colored hear scarves and a 'dull' one just in case.
Speaking of black and white...trust the Saudi men to wear a single layer and white and make the  woman wear layers and black in the desert heat!

As guests in this country, we are obliged to follow the countries rules. Even if we think they're a little weird, but it's how we should act. I understand how much of a pain it might be for some ladies to cover their hair, but once you know how to do it, it doesn't become a problem anymore. My wife does it now and she's a pro at hiding it, lol. I tell her to do it, because really. The looks some of these guys give are just so disgusting and perverted, I feel like kneeing most of them right in the crotch. Thinkin' about it pisses me off. I've never met such disrespectful and immoral people. But if we're shopping in the daytime, the malls are pretty relaxed. So I let her get comfortable, not that many pricks around.

If you choose not to cover your hair, you will most likely attract the attention of pathetic kids with horrible hygiene and communication skills. I'd worry about that more than the "mutawa." Also, use some common sense, if you're 20-30 and have gorgeous blonde hair, then it's probably not wise to show it off in front of a locally deprived bunch who are used to seeing BLACK.

But come to think of it, not too long ago, two Philipino women (black hair) were in Granada and a "mutawa" yelled at them to cover their hair.

I don't know how it feels, but I'm sure it doesn't feel good to be yelled at by a total stranger. It's a personal choice once again, but if you are punished, no one will be able to help you. And if you're with your man, he'll most likely get the punishment. As for colors, it's actually not allowed to put colors or designs on it, and last year there was in article in the paper about making a ban on it, but they've let that go.

I think you have to cover your hair to avoid unnecessary attention, especially at mall you will find alot of mutawa cheking that thing. I belive that it's personal chioce but what can we do.

beezer wrote:

As for colors, it's actually not allowed to put colors or designs on it, and last year there was in article in the paper about making a ban on it, but they've let that go.

Thanks Beezer and Queen. Tell me how commonly do you see local/expat women wearing colored head scarves?
Im the kind that WILL freak out if I have a nasty incident at the mall .. like Saudi men leering or passing comments. Id hate to cause an experience that is uncomfortable for young family!

If they see you with kids they're most likely to not bother you. Colored is fine I think, I seen a few people wearing them. Again, it's about your age and how you do yourself up.

I went to Krispy Kreme yesterday at Tahlia, drove off with a dozen originally glazed, then seen a bunch of commotion in the far lane. I looked over, it was a group of girls in a taxi, and 3 SUV's full of guys, each waving their cell phones infront of them. Presumably with their numbers on it. I laughed hysterically, but also felt sad at how hard it is over here.

beezer wrote:

a group of girls in a taxi, and 3 SUV's full of guys, each waving their cell phones infront of them. Presumably with their numbers on it. I laughed hysterically, but also felt sad at how hard it is over here.

I've seen alot of that. especially around that district. the men here need not rules and regulations, they seriously need REALL "education".

Imagine the Saudi women without abayas then !!!It will be hoot!!! What will they do?  Go nuts?
Funny how they behave normally in other countries and go berserk in their own! Rather sad!

musicman wrote:

May the times are a changing but I would still not take any chances if I was a Caucasdian non Muslim lady.

The law still stands. Its the implementation thats been watereed down, I believe.

Why tempt the devil?

I go by gut feeling and my gut has been telling me to cover my head for a while now...maybe it's Ramadan or something in the air, or perhaps the new warning from my embassy today - whatever,
I'm back to wearing the veil- in a funky kinda sassy way..WTENGEL I hear you bro 

I know CAF and Allie won't like hearing that from me but when my gut starts jibbering my head obeys.

SF15 wrote:

Yes why tempt the devil
Thank you everybody! Seems like its a matter of opinion and personal choice with a dash of bending the rules. I guess i'll get some colored hear scarves and a 'dull' one just in case.
Speaking of black and white...trust the Saudi men to wear a single layer and white and make the  woman wear layers and black in the desert heat!

Today I went for a 15 minute walk around 11 am...it may have been 40C 0r 45C, I have not felt any discomfort in wearing the black.  I carried quite a bit of shopping on my return and felt
comfortable..I also wore a white veil a la The English Patient that streamed along in the breeze..it was all rather pleasant I must say.

Women are slightly lucky cause they can be comfortable in their PJ's. When it's time to go, all they gotta do is slam that abaya on and they're set.

I kinda appreciate it, cause I don't have to wait as long anymore :p

You go girl!  Safety overrides vanity every time!     Its just so sad that it has to be this way!!!

jillndave wrote:

Sorry Musicman, I agree with Alliecat, it's rare that I see a non Muslim with a head scarf.

It's not normal, but not uncommon, either.

Some Western women prefer to not "rock the boat".  Now, for Saudi women, basic black was the norm for many, many years.  Now there can be embroidery, bling and some style attached to the basic black.

Women in other Muslim countries generally don't wear black scarves, but scarves of many colors and designs.  Indonesian, Malay and Emirati women wear some incredibly beautiful and stylish scarves.

Some Western women, in condescending to wear a scarf, choose one that is non-black.

But remember, Western women are not required - ever - to wear a scarf.

I think it's an issue not covering the hair. Anyway, this is a matter of religion, and Muslims here are so sensitive about it. Not covering the hair, and wearing colorful scarf would definitely attract unnecessary attention, and you might be taken by the Hay'ah. Also, it's very insulting to us as Muslims.

it's very insulting to us as Muslims.

It might be insulting to you, personally, as a SAUDI Muslim, but this is not the only Muslim country I've lived in...but it is the only one in which women wear black headscarves.

Most of the other countries I've lived in allow colorful clothing and scarves.

Be careful, Ramon, in making generalities...you are speaking about KSA, correct, because that is your life experience?

Some of us have more life experience than just one nation.

Ramon1990 wrote:

and you might be taken by the Hay'ah. Also, it's very insulting to us as Muslims.

What do you mean by 'Hay'ah' ?
I come from Pakistan and VERRRRyyy few women cover here  cover heads (apart from the rural areas) let alone wear colored scarves. We don't practice Islam by covering our head but rather then by being good human being first. No other Muslim country restricts women from moving alone, wearing and abaya and wearing only black in public!
Im sorry, you might not like this, but all Muslim nations are different. Your last statement was too generalized for my taste.

SF15 wrote:

We don't practice Islam by covering our head but rather then by being good human being first. No other Muslim country restricts women from moving alone, wearing and abaya and wearing only black in public!

MisterStretch wrote:

But remember, Western women are not required - ever - to wear a scarf.

Not to step on any toes, but I'm sorry. I've heard, learned, and seen otherwise. All women are required to cover their hair by their law. Now if you haven't been hassled, that's another thing. But on a bad day, you can be fined for not covering your hair. Muslim, or not. Saudi, or not. It is by law and is mostly enforced in Riyadh. I've seen women being yelled at, and their husbands being stopped. I choose to go the safe route and just let the wife cover her hair, even if it's falling out every bit. As long as you are relatively trying, they won't hassle ya.

It's the face covering thing that you don't have to do. And that Saudi's don't have to do either. It's just a tribal thing they got going on.

Well, these are your personal opinions, just don't forget the fact that you live in a Saudi Islamic world here. So, I think going against the Islamic rules here is really offence to me as a a Saudi Muslim and to my other brothers and sisters. I'm talking here about Saudi Arabia, not about any other country, and I don't care about any other opinions that go against the rules of Islam. As I said before, you believe in what you believe, there's a place where you can find yourself. And Muslims find them selves in Saudi, so, it would be better if people respect that.

Ramon,

Ramone,

Welcome to the forum!  Im just back from vacation and Im just catching up on the forum and have read many of your notes but haven't seen anything yet that tells us who you are besides being a very conservative Saudi Muslim.  Why don't you tell us something about your self,  where you have lived, went to school and maybe where you traveled in the world?  What is it you like to do and what your hobbies are?

Like to see alls with own opinions.. Well to me, wearing scarf is MUST for Muslim, and part of the aurah, but its up to Muslim women if they want to wear or not, if for non-muslim that live in Saudi, if they not wear the scarf, then can tell that they not Muslim. Am i right, guys

Ramon1990 wrote:

Well, these are your personal opinions, just don't forget the fact that you live in a Saudi Islamic world here. So, I think going against the Islamic rules here is really offence to me as a a Saudi Muslim and to my other brothers and sisters. I'm talking here about Saudi Arabia, not about any other country, and I don't care about any other opinions that go against the rules of Islam. As I said before, you believe in what you believe, there's a place where you can find yourself. And Muslims find them selves in Saudi, so, it would be better if people respect that.

Ramon,

Dear, as expats we were INVITED here by your government because they want and need our skills. Please stop the "if you don't like it here, leave" attitude since the Kingdom/people benefit from our presence here.  In other words, it's not a one-way street.

I find myself even wondering why you're on this forum since it is for expats (although we always welcome constructive, informative locals) and you seem to find so much here insulting and rude.  If you ask for respect, you must extend it, as well.

Anyway guys, we are human and do mistakes, why dont we use this forum for helping other expacts and giving some good info, so that they will love the country where they stay. Have a nice day

iddahashim wrote:

Anyway guys, we are human and do mistakes, why dont we use this forum for helping other expacts and giving some good info, so that they will love the country where they stay. Have a nice day

True, iddahashim, but we also have discussions here

Hear Hear Allie Cat!!!

SF15 wrote:

Hear Hear Allie Cat!!!

Thanks!  I appreciate the support (but in reference to which post?!)

Alliecat wrote:

Ramon1990 wrote:

Well, these are your personal opinions, just don't forget the fact that you live in a Saudi Islamic world here. So, I think going against the Islamic rules here is really offence to me as a a Saudi Muslim and to my other brothers and sisters. I'm talking here about Saudi Arabia, not about any other country, and I don't care about any other opinions that go against the rules of Islam. As I said before, you believe in what you believe, there's a place where you can find yourself. And Muslims find them selves in Saudi, so, it would be better if people respect that.

Ramon,

Dear, as expats we were INVITED here by your government because they want and need our skills. Please stop the "if you don't like it here, leave" attitude since the Kingdom/people benefit from our presence here.  In other words, it's not a one-way street.

I find myself even wondering why you're on this forum since it is for expats (although we always welcome constructive, informative locals) and you seem to find so much here insulting and rude.  If you ask for respect, you must extend it, as well.

Well, you might be right about being invited, but since it seems so, my government expects from you to work by the rules, and I think that's what they teach you there "To live by the rules", otherwise, you're not forced to come here.

If you're wondering why I am here, I really do like to help people, and I know how hard it is to get along here. And also, it gives me a lot of experience knowing new cultures. However, As Muslims, our belief comes above everything. So, as Muslims, we respect all the other religions, we also believe in the most popular religions that not related to Islam, and we expect from everyone, Muslim, and non to respect Islam.

After all, I like to make friendships, with Muslims, and non, I'm really open mined person, and friendly as all Muslims should be, but with who respect that. And believe it or not, some of my best friends are non-Muslim.

Ramon,

So, as Muslims, we respect all the other religions, we also believe in the most popular religions that not related to Islam, and we expect from everyone, Muslim, and non to respect Islam.

I'm sorry, Ramon, but that is just flat-out not true.  That might be a tenant of what you believe in your religion but the reality is that other religions are not tolerated by Islam. As practiced here, it is probably one of the most intolerant religions.  Everyone must abide by your religious beliefs, regardless of their own.  This guides what can be seen, watched, and even eaten or drunk.

If there was true tolerance, then non-Muslims would be able to live their lives as they please.  We are not.

There is much that goes on outside the borders of KSA that are not reported in the newspapers, on television or on the radio in this country.  Much of it is about the clash between practitioners of Islam and those of Christianity or Buddhism.  There isn't any tolerance there, only a demonstrated desire to overwhelm and enforce their own religious beliefs and practices on others.

That's not tolerance.  Grow up a bit, Ramon.  You will find that most of the people on this form are experienced in many different cultures and countries.  We understand the reality of the world.

Even of the world we live in at this very moment.

Please don't believe all the hype.