Driving USA Licensed Car in Hungary & E.U.

laszlo01 wrote:

How long can I keep my USA plated care in country for ?

I also recently have received my Hungarian passport so I am dual citizen now.

Also the entry port is Bremerhaven Germany. Is there a duty tax upon entry ?

Thank you
Laszlo

The old days of a free for all in HU for car registrations seem to have gone now, although I still see USA plates being used in Hungary and elsewhere.

1) If you want to use the car in Europe, do not use your HU passport for any official process (including police stops) involving you and the car. Do not even mention your EU passport. Use all your US documentation for the temporary import.  It's not allowed for EU citizens to drive non-EU cars in the EU although inevitably there are some that do.  The chances of being caught out in the Schengen area for such a thing is very small. However,there's always some country being officious. There are stories of Greek citizens, resident in Germany, being forced at the border to pay registration taxes on their German cars even though they've done nothing actually wrong.

2) Rules vary but I believe you can use it for a maximum of 6 months. It used to be such that you could just drive it to say Serbia for a short time and come back in (using your USA passport). However, this probably doesn't work anymore.

3) Tax: not if you are driving it temporarily within the limits and intend to take it back to the USA. 

4) Insurance; really difficult and be prepared to pay a hefty premium for the privilege.

Thank you for the info.

I was also thinking of shipping the car to the U.K. and have it registered there.

No Tax or Duty and the process is simple there.

Is it a problem to have a car licensed in the U.K. in Hungary with a U.S. Passport ?

laszlo01 wrote:

Thank you for the info.

I was also thinking of shipping the car to the U.K. and have it registered there.

No Tax or Duty and the process is simple there.

If you are VAT liable or not when importing a US car into the EU actually depends on a number of factors. If you qualify for VAT relief then you may not have VAT duties, but that is not always, in all cases, correct. If you register in any country, you probably have to also pay that country's vehicle tax for the year the moment it is registered. Hard, if not impossible, to get around paying some type of tax, to some government, in the EU.

For example, from the gov.uk web site :

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-i … ide-the-eu

laszlo01 wrote:

Thank you for the info.

I was also thinking of shipping the car to the U.K. and have it registered there.

It's not a problem to do that, however, you have to make changes to the car and the changes depend on what kind of car it is. The changes generally are as follows:

1) Speedometer to show mph (not a problem on US cars BUT dual markings for kph useful for driving in Europe)

2) Headlamps to "throw" to the left for left hand traffic system. Beam pattern is important.

3) Rear fog light - can be in the middle or can be on the right (for left hand traffic)

4) All LHD cars need something called an SVA (carried out by the government organisation VOSA).  This used to be an easy thing to get around if the car had European type approval. However, they changed the rules so that LHD cars all need testing. There's a download manual you can get free which shows what is tested. You might be able to argue for European type approval if you can show the car is also marketed in Europe. However, the SVA is still needed.

5) It needs to pass the government yearly test - called an MoT (Ministry of Transport).

6) You need  to pay the yearly tax which varies on emissions and the type of vehicle.

7) Plus point: Insurance is easy to cover all EU countries plus EEA.

8) You need a UK address for the car documents.

THere are companies that will "UK"-ise your car but be warned some of them are absolute cowboys. I had one bad experience where a company told me I needed a new speedometer in my car for Mph but they conveniently forgot to tell me that I could change the digital display to show mph at no cost.

laszlo01 wrote:

No Tax or Duty and the process is simple there.

It depends how long you have owned it. 6 months is usually the case where you won't need to pay if it's a personal import. Generally you'll have to pay the VAT and import duty (into any EU country) if the car is "not a new means of transport" but this will be on the value of the car as it is.

laszlo01 wrote:

Is it a problem to have a car licensed in the U.K. in Hungary with a U.S. Passport ?

Not really. If you have a UK car, simply show your HU passport BUT you can only drive a foreign car 30 days per year in HU. If you get stopped by the cops you can always use your US passport to confuse them but what other effects that would have, I do not know.

fluffy2560 wrote:

If you get stopped by the cops you can always use your US passport to confuse them but what other effects that would have

A US citizen, driving a UK registered car, in Hungary.... probably would raise a few eyebrows and a lot of questions that may be difficult to answer. And unlike 10 years ago, the police in patrol cars have access to databases rather easily now for real time background checks.

Yes, I think registering it in UK is a bad idea. In your situation I would try to work something out with a trusted friend or neighbour in Hungary. Buy a car in Hungary, get it registered in your friends name, let them use it when you are in USA, on the understanding that you have it when you are here. In Hungary the car is insured rather than the driver so it should not be a problem for more than one person to drive it. To register it in your name you need to be resident in Hungary so that might not be possible.

klsallee wrote:

....A US citizen, driving a UK registered car, in Hungary.... probably would raise a few eyebrows and a lot of questions that may be difficult to answer. And unlike 10 years ago, the police in patrol cars have access to databases rather easily now for real time background checks.

Yes, this is true. I regularly drive my US friend through borders in and out of Hungary and we get interrogated every time. I never get a second glance when I am on my own - it's just another EU person and nothing special. The cops do have access to databases and they do check. They use the passport number on their digital radios. What they are looking for is residence and then they can hassle you over the vehicle registration if it turns out you are registered. The thing for dual nationals (in Hungary) is to pull out the non-registered passport. If they don't know you have dual nationality (and why should they?), then the police check  automatically falls down. A more extensive check may bring up the name of a national with similar details crossing the Schengen border (for example at the airport) and therefore create more questions.

In the UK, there's no nationality check on owning a vehicle and no concept of ID cards or personal ID numbers related to the vehicle registration. Anyone of any nationality can own or register a vehicle so long as you have an address and can receive physical post related to the car. You do not even have to have a UK driving license. I should also say that the UK registration documents do not prove ownership, they just say who is "keeping" the vehicle. Ownership is different thing.

fidobsa wrote:

Yes, I think registering it in UK is a bad idea. In your situation I would try to work something out with a trusted friend or neighbour in Hungary. Buy a car in Hungary, get it registered in your friends name, let them use it when you are in USA, on the understanding that you have it when you are here. In Hungary the car is insured rather than the driver so it should not be a problem for more than one person to drive it. To register it in your name you need to be resident in Hungary so that might not be possible.

Yes, I agree this is the better idea.

UK though allows non-residents to own vehicles which could be an advantage. Insurance is generally cheaper in the UK and more comprehensive.

The Hungarian equivalent of an MoT is every 2 years whereas in UK it is every year. That means, to stay legal you have to drive your UK registered car 1000 miles to the ferry, cross the channel, get the MoT and any repairs needed to get it through then return to Hungary. You repeat this process every year. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth to me!
I would have said insurance is cheaper in Hungary than UK, especially if you don't have a no claims bonus. In most cases the annual tax is less as well, although certain low emissions cars get free tax discs now in UK.

fidobsa wrote:

The Hungarian equivalent of an MoT is every 2 years whereas in UK it is every year. That means, to stay legal you have to drive your UK registered car 1000 miles to the ferry, cross the channel, get the MoT and any repairs needed to get it through then return to Hungary. You repeat this process every year. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth to me!

Yes, that's all true to a certain extent but it very much depends on if you are going anyway and where you are going. It just needs a bit of planning. One can MoT a car in Dover with experienced MoT'ers who are used to expats driving in from abroad.  I drive to the UK - to the South East - twice a year by car - Easter and Christmas.  If one takes a family of four travelling on a scheduled airline (not Ryanair) - up to 4 x £200 (=£800) for tickets plus the cost of car rental (~£200 a week on a discount rate) when one gets there, that's over £1000 straight away.  It's just as cheap to drive in any car (HU or UK) even with the fuel costs, especially if one can share the driving and avoid overnight stops. There's also the novelty of piling up the UK shopping with Marmite etc for the return journey.  With all that, it's a simple matter to just do the MoT during the time there. Tax disc one can get online. It's very easy to get the car repaired to UK MoT standards in HU. Just needs some forethought and a good mechanics/garage.

fidobsa wrote:

I would have said insurance is cheaper in Hungary than UK, especially if you don't have a no claims bonus. In most cases the annual tax is less as well, although certain low emissions cars get free tax discs now in UK.

Cars are cheaper in the UK. If one buys a new one, then there's no necessity to go there for 3 years and sometimes, insurance is thrown in and there are even Europe wide warranties. There seems to be confusion about insurance in HU, what with various insurance types with no obvious UK equivalent like fully comprehensive. I find things that are included in UK insurance very competitive and useful - free windscreen cover, breakdown cover and so on (for example).

What happens if something crops up to stop you going though? Once the MoT runs out you can no longer legally drive it to UK because your insurance is not valid.

fidobsa wrote:

What happens if something crops up to stop you going though? Once the MoT runs out you can no longer legally drive it to UK because your insurance is not valid.

Yes, often said but it's not true. 

The insurance is still valid, even if you do not have an MoT or even road tax. If there was something wrong with the MoT-less car which contributed to an accident (for example), then this might be grounds for some reduction in cover, but it does not invalidate the insurance at all. It would mess up things good and proper if these things invalidated insurance because as we all know, a car can legally be driven to a pre-booked MoT test without an MoT or indeed road tax.

It might be a bit strange to argue a journey of 1000 miles to an MoT test was reasonable.

But on the other hand, if the MoT runs out, just SORN the car in the UK. No-one understands what SORN is in Europe and there's nothing to stop you driving the car around the EU when it's SORN'd. That's a UK only thing.  You can also still drive a SORN'd car to an MoT.  UK road legislation only starts at Dover.

The 30 day rule is now real and enforced.  It is because of all the Hungarians who register their cars in Slovokia or Slovenia. The driver's license is another big problem with Hungary not offering reciprocity to any US licenses.  So, you either have to leave the EU periodically to get your passport stamped or try and get a license.  I tried doing that and was able to eventually get permission to take the written test.  It is now given by computer and the English is Google translated Hungarian so impossible to answer.  I actually was happy to get 42 correct But, after 3 tries I gave up. Perhaps, in the future they will go back to a paper exam with translator but this test is impossible.  Only 2 people have passed the English version.  One after 4 tries and an expensive tutor who had the entire test bank and the other after 6 tries o his own. From what I understand, no one has passed the German, French, or Italian versions. So, I go to Bosnia or the US periodically. Ironically, my Russian born American wife had a Soviet Drivers license which expired in 1989 and they took that without question and just gave her a new Hungarian license. The car is registered to her so it hasn't been an issue.

We shipped 2 cars from the US to Hungary in 1990.
We drove one of them for a few years with only my husbands HU and US passports and the owners papers on the car.
We did buy insurance for 6 months we were here and the other time when away we parked it in our mums garage off the streets.
We paid allot more then you would pay for insurance if it had HU plates on the car.
We had second thoughts about one car, wanted to ship it back to the US. Husband drove it at the time to Germany to ship it off from there. The HU insurance we had did not cover the car while driving in Germany and he was fined at the ship yard $100. for the one day in Germany. They held him up so long that he really missed the boat out. He drove back to HU in anger( he gets angry about stupid rules far too easily)and we kept the car in HU for a few more years.
Sold it to someone here who most likely used it for parts. It was a newer at the time Audi 500. Very close to the Audi version sold in Europe but still to get HU plates at the time we were told we would have to change all the lights and windscreen on the car so we never bothered with HU plates.
I know the rules have probably changed by now but still be prepared to pay a premium for insurance with US plates.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

... but still to get HU plates at the time we were told we would have to change all the lights and windscreen on the car so we never bothered with HU plates.
I know the rules have probably changed by now but still be prepared to pay a premium for insurance with US plates.

Situation is indeed different. Between the EU and North America, there is mutual recognition of car parts - they do not need to be tested to be acceptable in the EU.  If the headlights and the windscreen were not EC compliant then they would need to be changed but not always. However, it depends on the specific headlights, notably the beam pattern. Most North American headlights are fine. Other issues usually occuring are the use of  different coloured turn signals, rear foglight and side indicators and the speedometer markings. US cars are mph, Canadian cars are dual marked and mainland European cars have kmh.  None of this is particularly expensive and if the car was manufactured in Europe (as a European version), then the spares are easily available if one is prepared to work a bit on it. Places to obtain spares are Ebay or vehicle dismantlers/breakers yards. . I had two North American cars and both of them were re-registered in Europe.  One cost me $600 to make compliant.  The other one was already compliant when I bought it.

fluffy2560 wrote:

...speedometer markings. US cars are mph

Not correct. Depends on the make and year. For example, my US made, delivered to me within the US market, 1990 Jeep Cherokee was dual gaged with marking in both miles and km when I bought it new. Miles/hour was the larger scale, but the km scale was there as well.

I suppose you know you can only drive in the EU with your US driving papers for up to one year. After that you will have to get a HU license.
I have heard they are very hard tests.
My husband got his back in 1968 and it is still good in HU, just had to get a physical test and eye exam.
Back in 68 he paid for a 6 month driving course for his own entertainment. He now has endorsments in HU  and the EU to drive 11 different sorts of vehicles. These days it is hard enough to just drive a normal passenger car here in the city.
Husband always just used his US passport and drivers papers in HU when using a car with US plates, so much easier if stopped.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

...speedometer markings. US cars are mph

Not correct. Depends on the make and year. For example, my US made, delivered to me within the US market, 1990 Jeep Cherokee was dual gaged with marking in both miles and km when I bought it new. Miles/hour was the larger scale, but the km scale was there as well.

Yes, I was generalising for the purposes of assessing the costs of conversion of different vehicles.  Most US cars I've seen are mph only (and in Europe, many cars are now only kmh - notably Fords). Exception might be say, California and other states with a Mexican border.  It's a fiddly business changing the dials on US cars but not impossible.

The worst situation is with European cars - the instrument panel is usually part of the immobiliser system which has been required for some years by EU law. It's to stop people "clocking" mileage/kilometerage(?) cars by swapping out the the panel. Wrong panel, wrong code, immobiliser on.  Dealer has to match the panel to the immobiliser codes.  It's stupidly expensive and bit daft. 

Jeeps are quite easy to convert to European standards - things to fix: rear lights (add fog lights or replace rear cluster), add wing indicators/turn signals, (depending on market) disable day time driving lights, recabling in engine compartment to protect certain cables from overheating and some removable parts used for underbody protection. Headlamps do not need to be changed due to mutual recognition of standards.  Nearly all European Jeep parts are the same as the North American market parts. In fact, Chinese Jeep parts (they assemble them) also work no problem in European Jeeps and they are 1/3 the cost of the original Mopar parts.

Japanese cars brought to Europe in the grey market are difficult because of emissons and acceptance of different fuel nozzles. Same with Middle East vehicles.  Not impossible but compliance can be harder not least because the Japanese cars are right hand drive.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Jeeps are quite easy to convert to European standards

Good info to know.

By the time I moved to Europe, and with depreciation, it was not worth it to ship over my Jeep. More simple and economical to sell State side and buy another car here. Bought a "newer" used AWD Subaru in Switzerland for about the same, dollar converted, price I sold my Jeep, so I did not loose by it.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Jeeps are quite easy to convert to European standards

Good info to know.

By the time I moved to Europe, and with depreciation, it was not worth it to ship over my Jeep. More simple and economical to sell State side and buy another car here. Bought a "newer" used AWD Subaru in Switzerland for about the same, dollar converted, price I sold my Jeep, so I did not loose by it.

Prices of cars are much higher in Europe (don't know about Switzerland) than in the USA.  It can be worth it if the car is sufficiently valuable.   The cost of shipping is not that high - $2K. 

Unfortunately I know quite a bit about Chrysler cars and Jeeps. One of the issues I find for US cars is the use of petrol (gas) engines vs diesel engines. US diesel engines are few and far between, often using industrial engines (e.g. Cummins) compared to very sophisticated engines (e.g. Mercedes or BMW) used in passenger cars and vans in Europe. Anyone with a higher priced US car with a petrol engine might consider diesel conversions in Europe if there is an equivalent version in Europe. However, this can be prohibitively expensive but it is possible technically.  One would need a donor vehicle, perhaps damaged in an accident.

Later models of Jeeps in Europe were available with a 2.7 diesel engine which was highly developed and efficient.  This engine is the same engine used in some Mercedes Benz cars and vans and should be a quick retro fit into almost any Jeep.   But realistically only hobbyists with too much time and money would even consider such a conversion. It wouldn't not be that expensive, perhaps EUR 4K but since the actual entire car, complete  with MB engine would cost that much, it's would not be really worth it (yet). In about 10 years, it might be worth it when the rarity value of older Jeeps has increased.

I have given up driving here in HU.
No problem since we are in the city and although we have a car we rarely use it 9 months out of the year.
We only take it out 3 to 4 times a month for grocery shopping.
Summer months is the only time we use it almost daily for day trips.
Reading the posts here makes me rethink even trying to get a license here.
Thankfully my husband does the driving , took the tests here in 1968 and he is still good here for driving.
I miss driving though at times. Of course there really isn't much of an open road here like in the US SW, can't go 110 mph and crank up the music.
I would recommend that if you ever do loan your car out to friends, make sure they are trustworthy.
Nothing tests a friendship more then loaning out expensive property only to have them let you down.
We loaned our cars here in HU in the past. Had a 2 year old Mustang T- Top red sports car that we had in the care of a friend.
When my husband came back to HU he almost cried his eyes out looking at the car.
The guy's brother had made side money by renting fast rides in the countryside with our car.
The transmission was totally gone, the car mats and seats filthy dirty and they had no money to pay us back to do the repairs.
Husband had to make a wood box and take the entire transmission back to Calif. to get rebuilt and then take it personally back with him and find someone in HU that could install it.
Very costly and very frustrating experience.
We another  time loaned our Audi 5000, also only a few years old at the time to another friend.
Thought he was trustworthy. He was a terrible driver who borrowed the car for a couple of months while he visited HU from the US. He destroyed the wheel bearings and muffler. He paid to have the repairs done but we had to hassle with getting the car fixed up.
Paid a neighbor's son for monthly storage of our BMW 316I for 6 months time.
He had extra room in is garage and we wrote out a paper stating he was getting paid X amount to keep the car in storage etc.
We came back to find the car parked outside all through the winter months, the paint was fading some and the muffler was hanging off. We had to fix the muffler on the spot as we couldn't even move the car.
We had pre paid for the storage so we were out. We had not given him permission to drive our car at all.
Last trip to the US for 6 months we parked and paid my SIL to store our old Citron in her yard.
Her SIL asked if we would let him use our car for only 3 days while his was getting repaired. We said ok but only for the 3 days time.
We gave them a car cover etc.
We told him that our brakes needed repair and not to use the car in heavy traffic or more then the 3 days, too be careful we would fix the brakes when we returned.
We returned to find out he let his wife use our car all over their village to run errands, the battery was gone, the brakes were totally gone and they left the gas tank empty. They had worn. the brakes down to nothing and never offered to help even push the car to the tow truck.We no longer even speak to my husbands sister as she let our car be used so badly.
We are going to the US for another visit and paying a total stranger for storage, have made out a contract etc.
Will not give them the keys to the car but let a trusted senior citizen hold onto them for an emergency.
The only time we have came back to a car that wasn't wrecked was when we had a contract with a stranger or a corp. parking unit. Don't know why friends and family here seem to think what is yours is theirs too.
Just saying, know who you are loaning your car to.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Prices of cars are much higher in Europe (don't know about Switzerland) than in the USA.

Switzerland is a great place to get used things for cheap. At least it was when I lived there. The Swiss tossed out a lot of almost new, barely used, items. For example, bought an almost new, hardly used, pair of skis for 20 CHF. Things like that. Hardly bothered buying anything new in Switzerland.

fluffy2560 wrote:

US diesel engines are few and far between

True.

My father was both an auto fan, and a diesel fan. Hobby car enthusiast. Most of his cars are diesel. Grew up around diesels. He owns two IH Scouts, for example, both diesel (Isuzu engines if I remember correctly -- but don't quote me on that). In fact, my Jeep was the first car bought in "our family" for 20 years that was not a diesel. Never was myself that interested in cars. Just a means to get between point A and B mostly. And I bought a Jeep as I did a lot of field work at that time in remote areas, and needed a 4X4. In Europe, AWD was sufficient (in Swiss alp snow, where I lived, it was essential). Current car in Hungary is a 2WD, don't really need AWD here. I probably would not buy a Jeep in Europe personally as I don't currently have a need for this type of vehicle. But again, not much of a car person either.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

The guy's brother had made side money by renting fast rides in the countryside with our car.

This sort of thing is, unfortunately, not uncommon in Hungary.

Knew a couple had a house nearby and who kept their horses in a stable with a neighbor (which they paid the neighbor for). They showed up one day and saw some people were riding their horses. The neighbor was renting out their horses to tourists.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Don't know why friends and family here seem to think what is yours is theirs too.

I had a similar question. My wife gave me a copy of Zsigmond Móricz's book "Relations" to read.

klsallee wrote:

He owns two IH Scouts, for example, both diesel (Isuzu engines if I remember correctly -- but don't quote me on that). In fact, my Jeep was the first car bought in "our family" for 20 years that was not a diesel. Never was myself that interested in cars. Just a means to get between point A and B mostly. And I bought a Jeep as I did a lot of field work at that time in remote areas, and needed a 4X4. In Europe, AWD was sufficient (in Swiss alp snow, where I lived, it was essential). Current car in Hungary is a 2WD, don't really need AWD here. I probably would not buy a Jeep in Europe personally as I don't currently have a need for this type of vehicle. But again, not much of a car person either.

Now I'm going to be very boring....

Isuzu diesel engines are very good for conversions and there are Isuzu engine conversion kits for Jeeps. Usually they put in manual gearbox and 2.8 engine from a 2WD pick up truck. But the 4WD feature in the Jeep would be lost. 4WD is indeed not required unless one is living on a hill or doing farming or something.  There's a small group of enthusiasts in the US who know far more than me who usually put the Cummins BT industrial engine in the Jeep. It's an ugly brute of an engine but does the job.  There are some superb and refined European diesel engines which could be used from MB or BMW in US cars (and Jeeps). No idea why there is so much aversion to the idea of diesels in the US - probably to do with obtaining emissions approval  The main physical problems with conversions are mating the gear box (needs an adaptor), changing (and making) the engine mountings and the prop shafts have to be changed (I believe shortened).  Older Jeeps, like the CJ model are very good candidates for diesel conversion and this is commonplace in Asia.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Now I'm going to be very boring....

I would rather say "informative". I take notes when you write about electricity and wiring.

I don't think I would want to try anything as radical as changing a modern car from petrol to diesel. They are just so complicated these days, what with immobilisers, loads of equipment for reducing emissions etc. It would be OK if you were fitting an older type diesel with mechanical pump and a simple fuel shut off solenoid but you might never get the car to pass the emissions test. At least insurance is cheaper in Hungary though. In UK you pay a fortune to insure anything that's been modified.

fidobsa wrote:

....as radical as changing a modern car from petrol to diesel. They are just so complicated these days, what with immobilisers, loads of equipment for reducing emissions etc. It would be OK if you were fitting an older type diesel with mechanical pump and a simple fuel shut off solenoid but you might never get the car to pass the emissions test......

It's not necessary to have an older diesel engine. You need the entire engine plus all the additional electronic bits. So the way to do it is to get a donor vehicle and to use the engine and engine management unit from there..  If there are European models versions with diesel engines  of the US car, then it would be possible to do a swap.  But the cost would be too high to make it really worthwhile. It would need to be a labour of love (or madness) and not based on economics (like improving fuel consumption). .

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Now I'm going to be very boring....

I would rather say "informative". I take notes when you write about electricity and wiring.

Oh dear! Yes, I did go on about that previously.  The other day I was admiring 3-phase electricity usage monitors online.  Sad case.

Greetings, I recently considered shipping my Japanese car from the US to Europe (Hungary).
The shipping companies quoted around $1,200.00 to a European port. They also stated that I would have to deposit 10 percent of the car market value upon pick up. I can drive it up to 12 months in Europe. If I ship it back during/end of that time I get my 10 percent back if not it is forfeit it. So a $10,000 car would cost me, $1,200 shipping, $1,000 tax/VAT not to mention the increased insurance etc. It seemed that it was not worth it! On the other hand I don't think Hungarians are that smart so let's not give them too much credit. I can see a US plated car being driven around for years in Hungary without being a real issue with the police. Maybe I'm wrong but most cops are clueless how to do their jobs here so these issues are too complex for them. Most of them couldn't be security guards in the US. Just an observation!

peddington wrote:

.... I can see a US plated car being driven around for years in Hungary without being a real issue with the police. Maybe I'm wrong but most cops are clueless how to do their jobs here so these issues are too complex for them. Most of them couldn't be security guards in the US. Just an observation!

This also applies to Slovakian, German, Spanish, French and a raft of others I see around Budapest. German cars seem particularly common.  The standard of the police has improved somewhat in the past 20 years but generally you are right.  20 years ago it was a free for all and being a cop on traffic stops was a meal ticket to screw cash out of motorists and as effectively a service to organised crime. I don't think it's quite like that now.  I used to get stopped all the time here for routine document checks. I haven't been stopped for years here - must be at least 2 years ago now.  In Austria, everyone in an Austrian car gets stopped at least every 2 years.  If you have foreign plates, you'll be stopped more often, at least once a year.

peddington wrote:

On the other hand I don't think Hungarians are that smart so let's not give them too much credit. I can see a US plated car being driven around for years in Hungary without being a real issue with the police. Maybe I'm wrong but most cops are clueless how to do their jobs here so these issues are too complex for them. Most of them couldn't be security guards in the US. Just an observation!

I knew someone who moved to California, took up permanent residence, and yet drove his out of state car, with an out of state license plate, for years in California (when you move to a state, by state law, you are suppose to register your car there within months). Given that I observed a similar scenario in the US, would you also say that Americans are not that smart, and that California police are clueless how to do their jobs?

And we even have not started on discussing all the unlicensed drivers on the roads in the US. They are complete unknowns until they are stopped, which typically only occurs when they do something else to catch the notice of the police, such as some traffic infraction.

Similar in Hungary. You can not assume that the same police patrol notices the US plated car more than once over a multi year period. So such a law breaker is most likely to only get caught at a police checkpoint which are setup from time to time as a routine check (or someone reports him to the police). And in the past few years police road stops have not been as common. But if he is stopped on the road for some reason, I suspect he will be very, very sorry. Till then, this American chap with the American plates is getting away with breaking the law: and in doing so not acting as the best "ambassador" for the US, is he?

Dear "Fluffy"! You are right. Major part of the reason is that the Hungarian police has no adequate budget for gasoline so patrolling is limited. A few years back a mid sized Hungarian city's/County police chief told me that his cars where limited to 100 km discretionary patrolling not including "true emergencies" per day. I have patrolled in a city just slightly larger (48,000 residents) in the US and I routinely drove my patrol car 200 km in a 12 hour shift. Sometime more and sometimes less depending how many arrests I made. In addition you are right about the "fines". It was an additional income source for cops who in 1994 made 80-100000 forints per month. Hardly enough for a family of four. But of course it was wrong. If you paid on the spot it was one price if you wanted to mail it in it was double or more. In a sense this still exists in Hungary. The other day I was at a private dentist. The price was 10,000 forints. When I asked for a bill (thinking I may be able to get my insurance pay some of it) the price jumped to 17,000 forints. On the issue of the foreign plated car. If you are not a citizen and you drive a licenses, inured car on a foreign license they likely could only penalize you for some type of "customs/import" violation. Something most patrol cops have no clue how to do. Likely that if you get stopped by Border Patrol/Customs known as "Vam/Financok" they may have a clue as to what to do and how to get you but all the time I spent here I have seldom seen them and they seem to focus in on trucks and commercial ventures. Be well, be safe!

Greetings! Humm....do I detect a little "anti American sentiment"? I say "don't be a hater, be a lover"! LOL! Having said that here are a few observations; you can't judge America by California. It would be like judging Hungary by it's "Roma" population or by Budapest's VII district. Remember those folks in the West coast elected an actor as Governor, gave driver licenses to immigrants and pioneered gay marriages etc. We have 49 other States that are in my opinion more "normal". So don't go by California! You right about the "unlicensed" drivers but remember that there is always a price to pay for a free society. Without probable cause we don't stop people in the US. Here you have "paper checks" in other words you didn't do anything wrong but "they just feel like checking". Incidentally I don't see this much anymore. Welcome Hungary to a modern society. But if you are a big fan of this then they should be able to come to your house for a "random" drug/contraband check and perhaps seize your long hunting knife or other items. After all "they are just checking" right? On the issue of driving. My opinion is that if I'm an American, driving a US plated car on a US license --- so what. I'm still spending money, buying your $8 per gallon gas and paying your 27 percent sales tax so I'm contributing. Of course if I was a citizen/permanent resident then it is another story! But ultimately however stupid the law is it is the law of the land and that is why I think Hungary is not a good place for Americans. Perhaps for chaps from England it is a good deal and I know folks from Asia like it but let's face it Hungary will not evolve in to a modern democratic Country in our lifetime! Just my take on this! Be well, be safe!

peddington wrote:

On the issue of the foreign plated car. If you are not a citizen and you drive a licenses, inured car on a foreign license they likely could only penalize you for some type of "customs/import" violation. Something most patrol cops have no clue how to do.

If the plates are over a year old, I will bet so is the US issued drivers license of the driver. If you drive in Hungary more than 12 months your US license is no longer valid. While US international topic are not commonly encountered by average every day Hungarian Police, I do expect the Hungarian police will make a note of the issue (most Hungarian patrol cars are modernized and digital now just like in the US), and if not cited on site, then the driver will very likely receive a "letter" from the government on this issue some time later. The "plates" may be the least of that driver's problems in the long run.