Blogs and free speech

Depends what you post.
Swearing, politics, defamation, advertising, and/or contact details are the most common reasons for posts being removed.

As you mentioned protection, it might be worth a note unproven allegations (that's before you've taken them to court and won) are considered possible defamation so are removed as the forum is sometimes held responsible for such content if it is allowed to remain.

Thank you Fred. I love this site because it has really proven valuable. Your explanation from experience is duly noted❤️

I was sorry to see that the posts regarding a specific development was depleted.

Some of us on this forum have lived in the country for many years, and have passed on information that has come from experience and we try to pass on what we have learned, both good and bad.

kohlerias wrote:

I was sorry to see that the posts regarding a specific development was depleted.

It might well have been accurate and true, or it could be a misunderstanding, maybe even sour grapes - but the reason for posting is unimportant.
At the end of the day, if such posts aren't removed, the forum can be held responsible and taken to court. It's happened before, and could well happen again. However, if you take them to court and win, it's then fact not opinion or defamation, so posting it wouldn't be much of an issue.

Fred, sites like Yelp have fought very hard for people to have the right to express themselves (as long as it's based on true experiences). This is just my opinion, but the real damage will come from sites like this one deleting anything seemingly negative for fear of being sued. Word will get around fast that they are not a fair site which allows for free communication and they will lose all credibility and value as a result. People will go elsewhere to provide their opinions and to warn others. This developer may have won a small battle in getting these posts taken down, but it's a temporary victory and they probably shouldn't celebrate too quickly,l. People have been seriously wronged by them and those people aren't just going to disappear and shut up.

Nobody is saying any given allegation isn't true, just they haven't been to court so can't be expressed without risking legal action. This site is small and run on a tiny budget when compared to the big boys so just doesn't have the spare cash to fight legal battles.

Take them to court, win, then post all about it as there would be no more legal considerations to care about.

I've just been reading some local Indonesian news about some free speech bunch moaning on about Indonesia shutting down whatsapp and other social media during what was a likely attempted coup. What they don't do is think about what could have happened if these groups were allowed their "right" to post provocative lies (They were claiming Chinese troops were disguised as Indonesian police and burning down mosques, as well as a load of other rubbish) - Would an extremist Islamic totalitarian government allow that group to bleat on about rights, or would they get shot the first time they opened their idiotic mouths?
The extremist bunch shot some of their own people in an attempt to blame the police (See the news) and start an Islamic revolution, so the free speech lot would have been up against a wall the first moment the extremists could find free when after they'd shot the president (They tried that as well).

Free speech is lovely, but you have to consider what can happen if absolute freedom is allowed.

As a note, Yelp reported a US$ 942.770,000 profit in 2018 so they can probably afford a few court battles, which is more than most of the potential adversaries will be able to manage to match. They also have a dedicated legal department to do the fighting.
A medium to large real estate developer could swamp this forum in legal rubbish and bankrupt it with ease, so possible defamation will be removed as soon as it is seen by any team member.

It's a matter of common sense

Justice doesn't always happen in court, let's not be naive. I understand being vulgar and out of line but are you telling me, Fred, that you evaluate this site for truth and act accordingly?? I really want you to answer that with a yes or no since that's what you are saying what a site is liable for. And, I want people, including me, to be able to go on a site for expats where they can get candid experience and make my own judgement. If you get right down to it, is my reality ever going to be yours and so on?

This is what you agreed to when you signed up for the forum, or at least a little of it.
This link allows you're visit the page and review everything you agreed to when you first joined the forum.

https://www.expat.com/en/terms.html

General Conditions of Use.

You agree not to use the Expat.com website for any purpose which is unlawful or not permitted by these General Conditions of Use. You are fully aware of, and agree that when uploading any content on the server which hosts the Expat.com website, for example, during any type of communication or exchange on the Expat.com website (including in forums and chat rooms), the following is strictly prohibited:

Defamation, abusive, harassing, threatening, hate, or discriminatory statements, or anti-human rights propaganda, such as homophobic or racist comments.
Any unlawful or inappropriate material or information, including but not limited to violent, nude, partially nude, hateful, pornographic, including child pornographic materials or any other photos which are otherwise unlawful via the service.

The only way to post accusations on this site is with proof, that usually meaning a court document stating you've won your case.

Justagirl8870 wrote:

let's not be naive.

We can add realism

Justagirl8870 wrote:

...are you telling me, Fred, that you evaluate this site for truth and act accordingly??

In cases like this accuracy doesn't matter. I know for a fact the owner doesn't want a site he's put many years of hard work into being put at risk for your version of free speech, right or wrong, until you've proven it in court.
The answer is easy - Take the developer to court, then re-post if you win the case. With a link to a court ruling there would be no reason to remove your post as it would be considered a factual warning.

Justagirl8870 wrote:

, I want people, including me, to be able to go on a site for expats where they can get candid experience and make my own judgement.

Your post could destroy the site - not a lot of good to the large number of expats this place helps every year.

Take this from the other side and assume someone posted your name and address with an accusation you enjoyed sexual relationships with dogs whilst making snuff porno movies.
I'm guessing you'd be unhappy and want such a post removing quickly, probably contacting the forum and threatening legal action.
Without the Youtube video the accusation would be defamation, but you want that allowed?
Woof.

However, you're safe because I, or another team member, would remove it as soon as it was seen.

Thank you. I read that, I don't think that happened until a company started saying people were in default and, I guess I have to commend you for that, no reputable company would ever post their experience with a customer in that manner, especially if they don't have proof.
I did however contact expat.com directly but haven't gotten a response to what happened to a forum I was on.

Fred, scrapping the whole thread makes you look imbalanced rather than careful as moderators. You can delete comments and message people telling them to keep any defamatory comments out of the thread and let them connect with people to speak privately about their experiences. You can want them that if they post defamatory comments again they will be removed from the site. When you scrap the entire thread it makes you lose credibility. People will assume the developer in question threatened you or paid you or both. I'm just letting you know how it appears to your user base. Moderating and letting people know what they can and can't post, removing posts that are defamatory I get. Tearing down and entire thread is not a good look. That's all I'm trying to say.

Justagirl8870 wrote:

Thank you. I read that, I don't think that happened until a company started saying people were in default and, I guess I have to commend you for that, no reputable company would ever post their experience with a customer in that manner, especially if they don't have proof.
I did however contact expat.com directly but haven't gotten a response to what happened to a forum I was on.

If you link to the company's site where they do that, quote the offending part, and screenshot it in case they edit, there's less likely to be a problem with the thread because you're showing they said it, not you saying they said it.

Big difference.

DallasMags wrote:

Fred, scrapping the whole thread makes you look imbalanced rather than careful as moderators. You can delete comments and message people telling them to keep any defamatory comments out of the thread and let them connect with people to speak privately about their experiences. You can want them that if they post defamatory comments again they will be removed from the site. When you scrap the entire thread it makes you lose credibility. People will assume the developer in question threatened you or paid you or both. I'm just letting you know how it appears to your user base. Moderating and letting people know what they can and can't post, removing posts that are defamatory I get. Tearing down and entire thread is not a good look. That's all I'm trying to say.

You'd be amazed at how many times I get a PM after removing a thread accusing me of working for a company I've never previously heard of, or being paid by them to remove it.
Such suggestions only offer the possibility the poster concerned is less than reliable as they follow  up one unsupported charge with another one, just more ridiculous.

It tends to make me think I did the right thing in removing any given thread.
As it happens, I didn't think I removed the thread in question, but I would have if I'd seen it before someone else did.

I did. 😁

[Post under review]

This has gone silly, but demonstrates why posts are removed because of possible defamation.
One poster brought their argument to the forum, then the developer joined to return the argument and threaten legal action.
This sort of stuff just brings trouble and keeps lawyers in business so isn't welcome on this forum.

Agree. And the accusations the builder made were wildly unprofessional. In the thread you're referring to, the OP said nothing defamatory, though. At least not that I saw. He just stated he was starting a documentary on the company. So, in that case, to refer to my previous point, really only the builder's response should be deleted. Right? Or am I missing something?

DallasMags wrote:

Agree. And the accusations the builder made were wildly unprofessional.

The builder responded with an accusation and threats of legal action.
As this has NOT gone to court, that's also possible defamation so, as the member joined for that single purpose, he was banned until his posts are reviewed.

DallasMags wrote:

the OP said nothing defamatory, though. At least not that I saw. He just stated he was starting a documentary on the company. So, in that case, to refer to my previous point, really only the builder's response should be deleted. Right? Or am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing something.  The OP gave the name of the builder, but also posted on this thread, thus deliberately linking linking the two.
That also earns a ban as it brought legal trouble to the forum so is unacceptable.

The builder might well be a nasty person with the morals tossed to the wind in favour of a dishonest dollar, but it's equally possible the allegations of breach of contract are true and a couple of posters are trying to get some sort of revenge by damaging an honest business - I neither know nor care, but I do care about the forum so I, and others concerned, will remove such posts and, if it goes too far as it did in this case, remove the posters as well.

The forum owner is a decent bloke who put a lot of hard work into the thing, and people such as myself got a lot of help from members when we were green and new to expatriation so we care about the forum and try to pass that forward by helping others. However, all that could be lost if the forum gets dragged into legal rubbish that's nothing to do with anyone but those directly involved, so all posts of that nature go as soon as a team member sees them.

Hope that's clear

Makes sense. Thanks for the background and for stating your position clearly!