Property

Nobody can tell you some “catch“ in the future:-)

By catch I meant could the government just introduce new rules and confiscate it or are Vn part of WTO for its merits?

Gee your funny...

Excat, who will know this..........ALL the Gouvernment do what the want if WTO or not!!!!!! USA -  asset forfeiture without any proof of wrongdoing........................ Check Google and you know!

Cheers pal,yes I understand your point though foreclosure and taking a property by other means are not the same.Though Vn a little more risky than the States it would appear.Google is good but not exact...

Are you living in VN now?

G'day Dongha, welcome to the forum.

There are numerous threads here highlighting the pitfalls of "buying "property here...ie, ownership rights, paperwork , poor quality workmanship and materials etc etc.    Personally, I could never get that warm fuzzy feeling about property ownership that I had back home , here in Vietnam.

Just rent a place and keep your eyes & ears open and you'll soon start hearing the many "issues" that foreigners have in buying property here.

The warm fuzzy feeling Yogi gets here is paying peanuts in rent and having freedom of choice to move when I like and where I like.   When the location or "neighbours" become a problem , Yogi just finds a nicer place.   

Neighbours......?   They can be a problem here.   A lot of people failed to take that into account when buying .   Nothing worse than being stuck next to assholes & savages .   Good luck trying to sell then.
They'll scare off any potential buyer , just to annoy & irritate you. 

Welcome to Vietnam.

Neighborhood and Neighbors are a huge part to consider when buying or leasing properties in VN. Neighbors disregard their other neighbor's needs, feelings, interests, and health. For example, I know of a neighbor who uses part of his tiny compound to raise livestock ( cows, goats, and dogs). Imagine that for a second.

His ten ton truck moving in and out to bring foods at night and day. Parking close to his other neighbor's driveway without respect.

Then the bad smells that fill and pollute the air and homes of all the neighbors adjacent his property. Remember most of these homes are very very close. Another thing is the noises or crying of the cows and goats anytime in the  day or night when  they need food or drinks or when they feel something.

Then the fear of him retaliating if those neighbors reported him to the police. If even he brides  the police, reporting to police would yield no positive result. I gave some specific advice to the people I visited but they were wary to take actions, yet they are living in that poor sanitary condition. 

The final part is that the neighbor I visited cannot easily find a buyer for their house because the environment is polluted. And their living room, bedroom, and kitchen smell as if  all the mess from the cows are disposed right in there.  This story is true, I witnessed it, and it continues right now.

Some key points for real estate investment in Vietnam:

(1)  There is no such thing as "freehold" property for foreigners. You own the right to use the land (and the housing/apartment on it). For foreigners, maximum ownership term is 50 years from the date on which you receive the Land Use Right Certificate (essentially, your title document to the use of the property)

(2)  Foreigners can only buy apartments as part of a project-based housing from the developers,  or from other foreigners.

(3)  Currently, the term for foreign ownership is not clear. There is no guarantee you will get it for 50 years -- in fact, it is extremely rare to see a foreigner who has been issued the Land Use Right Certificate for their apartment ownership. The authorities here are still hesitant to issue it.

(4)  You can rent out or sell your apartment as an investment. However, you're subject to income tax on the income generated from the rental or sale.

(5)  Be wary of purchasing off the plan. Many developers, especially local ones, will try to ask for as much money up front as possible from the buyer to finance the project development. Under law, developers are not permitted to take more than 70% (or 50% if developer is foreign-owned) of the purchase price from you until the project is completed. They also cannot take more than 30% as an initial instalment. Many local developers have flouted this regulation - the result being investors having paid a good chunk of money upfront while the project is abandoned or suspended.

Fair point you make and I for one have no desire to be awoken by the sounds of oink oink or moo moo though let's be considerate the beeping of the motorcycles may,just maybe would overcome such noises though the fragrant smell of Winnie the .... Would get right up my nose so too speak.

I'm sorry for those guys and yes I could foresee the police doing little to help and the reprisals for complaining looks self defeating as you point out..wow nice people they've the bad fortune to live next to.

Yogi I think that's the way to live in Vn,move as you like,when and where without that kind of hassle from the fired up neighbours.

I appreciate the welcome from you guys though have spent much time in Vn from 2010-2013 when buying wasn't possible and I guess the risks are still too great.

You've got the "vibe" about this place Dongha,   Yogi lives a good life here by taking advantage of the positives and staying away from the negatives. 

The "smart money" comes here purely for what they can get at minimal cost....ie, the big Multi Nationals getting their goods assembled for ridiculously cheap wages.   That won't go on forever though. In a few short years "Industry 4 " will hit them like a ton of bricks.   Also , the massive property boom in apartment construction will need to be paid for. The " flippers" are getting nervous, AND  the banks they borrowed the money off are also getting very concerned. 

Yogi knows several of these local property flippers..(resellers) ..they are in debt up to their little flat nostrils, and have jobs paying peanuts.    The word bubble keeps bobbing up as well. 

Remember the "Sub Prime" mortgage game in the states that kicked off the GFC.   Fanny & Freddy,  Lehmans etc etc ....they all lent money to "bogans" with limited incomes to buy property at highly inflated prices.     Didn't work out too well did it🤓     Property prices plummeted.  You could buy houses for virtually nothing.   I was in the US at the time to see the carnage.

Similar story here.  People with jobs paying peanuts borrowing money to flip a property. 

When the music stops, there's going to be a massive adjustment in property values .

Caveat emptor, mate.

Hiya yogi,how's the world of yogi these days?

We conversed a few months back and your posts always make me both chuckle and make me aware.

Hey Dongha,
How's life treating you.   

I see by some of your posts your already “into” the thick of things.   Property purchases, marriage and DNA tests. 😆😆😆😆

You've got the trifecta mate. 

For me,,,alls good.   I'm just about to “take off” again, I usually clear out every couple of months for a break and a change of scenery.

Yogi's always stuck to his mantra.   Be careful with The five deadly “B”s, especially in SE Asia.
ie...Babies, Brides , Business dealings, Bogans & Booze.

I keep reminding myself...
I came here to be entertained...NOT be the entertainment. 😆

Yogi007 wrote:

You've got the "vibe" about this place Dongha,   Yogi lives a good life here by taking advantage of the positives and staying away from the negatives. 

The "smart money" comes here purely for what they can get at minimal cost....ie, the big Multi Nationals getting their goods assembled for ridiculously cheap wages.   That won't go on forever though. In a few short years "Industry 4 " will hit them like a ton of bricks.   Also , the massive property boom in apartment construction will need to be paid for. The " flippers" are getting nervous, AND  the banks they borrowed the money off are also getting very concerned. 

Yogi knows several of these local property flippers..(resellers) ..they are in debt up to their little flat nostrils, and have jobs paying peanuts.    The word bubble keeps bobbing up as well. 

Remember the "Sub Prime" mortgage game in the states that kicked off the GFC.   Fanny & Freddy,  Lehmans etc etc ....they all lent money to "bogans" with limited incomes to buy property at highly inflated prices.     Didn't work out too well did it🤓     Property prices plummeted.  You could buy houses for virtually nothing.   I was in the US at the time to see the carnage.

Similar story here.  People with jobs paying peanuts borrowing money to flip a property. 

When the music stops, there's going to be a massive adjustment in property values .

Caveat emptor, mate.

Agree. My wife and I buy vacant land,when the market drops we will still have vacant land. No rates, no maintenance and no tenants.We also buy without any loans, debt free.

As you mentioned, it will drop, when that is who knows. I also buy land with a friend who does reposessions for a bank. She told me that many locals borrow and cant afford repayments, she said its very common here.They see their friends diong well and jump on the debt train.

Hi Colinoscapee?

That price drop is starting around KhanHoa Nha Trang now.  Even in Da nang it's slowing and sellers have to re evaluate.

I know some VN sellers that are getting nervous about offloading land.
They know  the parties over and are trying to get out.   They can't get a REAL buyer with REAL money.   

There's several big projects that have stalled.  Apartment blocks 30 + stories high left high & dry.  Developers pissed off with whatever cash they could, workers not paid,  suppliers not paid...and it will get worse.

It's all a game.   Look at Phuc Quack Island.   Property prices rose 800% in 4 months.  Ridiculous stuff.    Even around here  , shitty  blocks have gone UP 400% in two years .    What's happening is that “buyers” & sellers are just exchanging contracts,,sometimes several times a month with crazy markups.   BUT no money changing hands until someone mentally ill comes along and actually puts REAL MONEY on the table.     Only then does all the flippers get their markups. 

Problem is ,,the lawyers, Agents & notaries sitting on a pile of sale contracts aren't getting paid until some clown actually PAYS and settles.    The other problem is that clown that does PAY will probably know he's paying WAY too much and with the market slowing , will walk away.

Now , we have sellers SUING buyers for the unpaid deposits on those “flip” deals.   It's a disaster.   

You've got farmers near the yet to be approved new Airport sight east of HCM carving up their properties into domestic lots WITHOUT approval and selling to crazed flippers purely by exchanging paper work.  Prices have gone thru the roof on blocks that don't legally exist. 
It's a debacle.   Besides....if someone's got the real money to buy those blocks ,,do they really want to live there ,,it's a shitty area, and the rental return would be stuff all.  So....it's only a flip option, and that only works by the bigger fool theory.

There are *** around here that have borrowed against their own houses and spent the money on “shiney  things” parties and football betting.  They hope to clear those borrowings by the “markup” on the land flips they've got tied up in.  Good luck 🤓🤓

Supposedly , all the new land developments & apartment blocks around here have “sold”.🤓.  I know personally people that can't sell properties that are reasonably priced purely because the buyers are flippers that can't afford the deposit.  Most of its paper trading.   I read a report that Khanh hoa has the lowest uptake on sales..19% of properties have actually settled with cash....the rest are sitting in escrow waiting for some real money to appear.

Property prices are slowing and declining in a lot of markets.  Berlin Germany had the fastest growth last year of 18%.  Vancouver, Toronto. Auckland etc they had good growth , but that's all now coming to an end.  Even back home in Oz , the market is down.   

No one in world realestate commentary is talking about the 800% bullshit here.  They all know it's a fools game & would be insulting their own intelligence commenting on it.

But it's good for a laugh around here.

Yogi007 wrote:

There are *** around here that have borrowed against their own houses and spent the money on “shiney  things” parties and football betting.  They hope to clear those borrowings by the “markup” on the land flips they've got tied up in.  Good luck 🤓🤓

There were such *** 10 years ago in the US States, too.
As house prices have risen higher and higher, they have taken up new mortgages on their houses (which were willingly granted by the banks) in order to indulge themselves more luxury (new cars, etc.).
After the bubble burst the US States kicked off the last global financial crisis. The result is probably still known to everyone.

I think in Vietnam, the bubble will burst at some point. But history will also repeat itself in America, as Super-Trump now wants again to relax the stricter banking regulations introduced at the time.

So not a problem in Vietnam but a human problem because man is the stupidest creature that is extremely greedy for money and power and never learns anything from its mistakes.

How do yogi,

   Glad your still around surviving in that jungle.Oh boy I was in the thick of things way back and some...cash flow still this side of the net,some girls racket in hand cannot play if no balls...add all bets up and it would be closer to a Yankee id say.

Where's you off to this time,bears need to hibernate in the tropics too?

Would have thought brothels were on your deadly 5....though the 5 are enough to stop at C.

Entertain and laugh,the world laugh with you.


Just wanted to know the ease or stories of hell in getting a UK passport for the litttle cub

Here here...Super Trump produces for and will protect the the money,oligarchs inc...A big crash will come and a clean up ensues.. arrogance and confidence have fine lines but this guy makes me chuckle as megalomaniacs go. .Boom and bust happens whoever in charge,it's a game for the markets and scammers.

Gentlemen, your rather colourful description of those who mess their financial lives up might very well be accurate, but perhaps less naughty word can be found to place a description of their errors in our minds.

Thank you

Yogi,

I am not quite sure I understood your phrase of “exchange contracts”.  Can you elaborate more?  Thanks.

Whoa...
Your still in the loop Yoda.    I would have thought you may have gone onto another galaxy far away.

I can see what your getting at.    Yoda is wisely trying to figure out how the word CONTRACT is interpreted in Vietnam.     Loosely would be a good guess.🤓

Yogi will do his best to elaborate on the Contract thing.  Basically buyers & sellers are  just signing the Sale & Purchase contracts in the “hope” that actual money is exchanged for the property title books,pink ,red , whatever.  But in a hell of a lot of cases ,,that's not happening.

Some of these land sections have these contracts exchanging between parties several times without a penny being put on the table.   The lawyers , Agents & notaries aren't getting paid because no cash has been sighted.   They are just flipping contracts with the price jumping each time.      One seller has been reported as “buying” back his property of the guy he flipped it to , only to on sell it.   They actually believe someone at the end of the conga line will pay the jacked up price ,,and then everyone gets their markups.    As I said before,,in the meantime lawyers, notaries & Agents are just sitting on piles of paper that they probably know will only be good for one thing.🤓

It's too silly for words Yoda.   

Sorry to have rambled on ,,  but using the words Contract & Vietnam in the same sentence is difficult.

Yogi forgot something .

From my own personal experience buying & selling property in Australia , Contracts are exchanged between buyers & sellers usually upon the PAYMENT of a 10% deposit.

By that stage the buyer should have done his due diligence with regard to property surveys, council zoning, title caveats , easements , covenants , building inspections etc .  He knows what he's getting into.

Here.......some of these property's have NOT even been zoned for subdivision for residential use.   You've got hillbillies  banging pegs into the ground with price tags attached.    It's a joke.

Yogi doesn't think he could drink enough grog to get to the stage where he'd be stupid enough to even consider buying anything here.

Hi Cousin Yogi,

Yeah.  I'm still here.  Landed in this galaxy almost 2 years now, and have been beaten up left and right despite all the advices I heeded from this site.  The moment you think your cases are different than others, they come and bite your behind.  Meant to drop by your neck of the hood to pay elderly respect to Yogi The Bear but haven't had a chance.  Where the heck are you now anyway?  Somewhere central last I heard.

Anyhow, back to topic … "Exchange contract" - I thought when a new contract is created the old one needs to be cleared and closed, no?  And at any one point there is only one standing valid contract for the property.  Haven't been following the market, thus, what you mentioned surprised me.

Hi Yoda,
It is a crazy system.  You'd think that once the seller & the buyer entered into a “contract” to exchange an agreed amount of currency for that property , the contract would stand ,,unless clauses in the contract indicate otherwise. 

In most cases in developed countries a deposit is paid & there's a time limit to settle the purchase.  If the buyer can't settle on time the seller , within reason can legally keep the deposit and put the property back on the market.

But here,,a lot of the buyers are just opportunists , middlemen & Agents just putting their names on purchase contracts purely to have the chance of onselling the property for a profit.......and “deposits” are not often paid even if it's stipulated in the contract......the cheque is in the mail sort of thing😆

But that's how things are done here, and they're used to it. It's their game, their rules. That's why I don't play it.

In any new business dealings that come your way......what's the first thing that you think of ??

Who am I dealing with,,who are these people, what do we know about them, where have they been, what have they done & if they have done anything ,were  they any good at it,,,,,are they reputable.   Honesty, Integrity & Reputation go a long way.

So far ,we are not seeing that here.

Anyway..Yogi's sitting at an airport now. Getting away for a few weeks to refresh the batteries.

When we buy land we place a deposit and usually organise to meet at the government notary office within a week.First we check at the UBND that the ownership is correct and do some other searches.

You're right about the contracts, some don't have them and others are on-selling before they even obtain the title. In D9 in Saigon, people were buying in the morning and selling by the afternoon.