New members of the Netherlands forum, introduce yourselves here - 2018

Hello everyone,

I'm from Belgrade, Serbia and I've been thinking about moving to Netherlands ever since I've visited Amsterdam, Eindhoven and Utrecht last October for couple of days. Needless to say, even though it was kind of a short visit - I've enjoyed my time in Netherlands.

Amsterdam was something really special to me, I was thrilled for every single second spent there - dwelling more on to that would take me probably more than 2.000 characters!

Long story short, I've been working for US based company on a permanent basis for over two years now, and since few months ago I've been also working some IT-related freelance-type work for one Amsterdam based start-up company.

One of the main things I've been curious about ever since I've started thinking about moving to Netherlands is: how willing would Netherlands-based IT-related company be about employing non-EU citizen? Even so, how complex could paperwork be?

I've been doing quite some research on my own, I was able to garner some extra information about birocracy stuff, but I wasn't really familiar with companies tendency in employing non-EU citizens (since, well, I'm not an IT prodigy that cannot be found elsewhere! ). I've read about regulation that actually forces companies to prove that no Dutch nor EU citizens were able to fill position one non-EU would occupy if employed - taking that into considerations, are non-EU citizens actually pretty hard to find their luck in Netherlands in IT-related field?

Now that I've went through this post again, seems like I was far from concise, so let me try to summarise all of the above one more time:

How much exactly are Netherland based companies leaning towards non-EU citizens? Let's say I'm very well qualified for certain position that I'm applying for - how much of a game changer is the fact that I'm non-EU citizen?

Thank you in advance and let me say this - quite nice place you've created here. It's really helpfull having a healthy community when it comes to this kind of thing. Keep it up!

Pierre van Hooijdonk wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm from Belgrade, Serbia and I've been thinking about moving to Netherlands
................

Now that I've went through this post again, seems like I was far from concise, so let me try to summarise all of the above one more time:

How much exactly are Netherland based companies leaning towards non-EU citizens? Let's say I'm very well qualified for certain position that I'm applying for - how much of a game changer is the fact that I'm non-EU citizen?

Thank you in advance and let me say this - quite nice place you've created here. It's really helpfull having a healthy community when it comes to this kind of thing. Keep it up!

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

Forgive my snipping your post.  The bottom line answer to your question is they can't employ a non-EU citizen if a Dutch/EU citizen is available to do the job.  However, the reality is that if an employer wants someone badly enough, they can create the environment where they become a "highly-skilled migrant"; this link will take you to the Dutch Government (IND) website that describes the process.

So you need to think of some way to sell the "highly-skilled" aspects of your skill-set, then find a company that needs your skills.

A word of warning about applying from outside Holland; in general, unless you have a skill that everybody is crying out for and doesn't exist in Holland, you may find your e-mails and CV's landing in the great recycle bin in the sky and phone calls not being returned, or even worse, they hang up on you, especially when they realise you don't speak Dutch (that's a big "hint" by the way).  My advice is to target the multi-nationals where they work in English.

Hope this helps.

Best of luck in your journey.

Cynic
Expat Team

Hi,

Nice  to meet you and welcome!

Tine02 wrote:

Dear all,

I moved from Germany to the Netherlands 6 month ago because of work. I really enjoy living here and I am looking forward meeting other expats.

Any tips about how I can improve my dutch are welcome:)

Kind regards,
Christine

Hi,

I use the app Memrise. I prefer this app personally to learn a language.
Gr,

Hello Everybody, warm Greetings!!
I am a software professional.
I am in discussion with one company and it has reached till salary negotiation phase.
I am a family of 4 with two school going kids (11year and 6year) my wife is a Hindi Language teacher with vast teaching experience in teaching primary as well as pre-primary schools in India.

nee your help checking how much should i quote to company as salary for a comfortable living with family.

Regards,
Satish Chaturvedi

Hi Satish and welcome to the Forum.

With regards to negotiating your salary, I'd advise you to check out the recruiting agencies that deal with your speciality; they will have a website where they advertise for people plus details of salary ranges.  The Dutch Government website (Werk.nl) has lots of information you may find useful; this link will take you to the page that lists many of the agencies including links to there websites.  One other thing you should be aware of; most professions have a CAO agreement that covers many things you might think you can negotiate; you haven't been very specific regarding what you do, so I can't point you towards it; my advice is to ask your future company whether a CAO exists and can they provide a copy.

Another link you may find useful is to the Numbeo website; apart from information regarding costs, it contains a lot more social information; this link will take you there.

Hope this helps.

Best of luck in your journey.

Cynic
Expat Team

Hi Cynic,

thanks for your response !!

I am a software professional. I the s/w Integration Build and release engineering.
I am in discussion with one company Orion on-role and deputed at ASML and it has reached till salary negotiation phase.
got an indication as salary will be 70-72K Euros Gross annul.

I am a family of 4 with two school going kids (11year and 6year) my wife is a Hindi Language teacher with vast teaching experience in teaching primary as well as pre-primary schools in India but not sure if shee will get any job there so she may be a homemaker.

Need your help as how much should I quote to company as salary for a comfortable living with family.
not sure if this salary is OK living there comfortably in a decent 2bhk house with two school going kids.
further I need your advice about 30% tax ruling, Insurance, house on rent and any other expenses that is required.

Regards,
Satish Chaturvedi

Hi and welcome back.

If you're not entitled to 30% ruling, 72k gross is 3.7k p/month after taxes; if you are entitled (speak to your new employer), then it's 4.6k.  Dutch minimum wage is circa 1.6k p/month.  Dutch national average salary is 2.2k.  So the numbers you are being offered are much more than an average Dutch worker is getting.  Whether it's the right salary for your future role/responsibility, I have no idea; I've previously advised you to look what the advertised salaries are for roles similar to yours, you've said nothing to make me change my mind, so that advice stands.  This link will take you to an online tax-calculator for Holland (other are available).

To find an apartment; there are many websites advertising houses/apartments for rent; one such example is Pararius; this link will take you to their website.

All of the other stuff you're asking about, I've already given you the link to the Numbeo website, you need to follow the link and look for it yourself.

So - go back and look at the links I previously gave you, use Google to find salaries for similar roles as yours being advertised on the Internet.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Hello Guys, my name is Antonio, i'm from Italy but currently volunteering in Romania for the erasmus+ project . I'm 30, so cool enough for my last opportunity ahahah I have a lot of dreams but 2 of them are the most important and I'm writing things just cause I don't know what to write more ahahah cool to hear from you and enjoy

Hi ive been in holland already for more than a year .After i born my don my husband and I return here in the philippines and we already live here for more than 12yrs .and now if the ind grant my visa so that we can return to holland this year.

Groetjes!!
Ann

Hi Cynic,

this is Satish Back again.
I got the response from my employer as:
{
The budget for the role is approximately €70k-€72k gross per year.
With €70k gross per year. Per month you receive approx. €4300 net per month
There is no child education fee nor medical insurance fee from employer.
}
I need to send around €800 back to my parents in India every month.

now i want to know if 3500 (4300-800) a good take home to stay at Netherlands with 4 people having two school going kids (6 year and 12 year) my wife will not be working (home maker).

I need to take care of Insurance for myself and family no support from company.

Please advice this is going to help me in great to take decision.

Regards,
Satish

Hi Satish,

I'm assuming you're going to send your kids to the local state schools as the International schools will cost far too much.  The salary you're quoting is way above the Dutch minimum and average wage, so lots of Dutch people live on far less; so, yes, it's doable, it will absolutely depend on your lifestyle.

You haven't said where your job is, but my advice is to stay away from the big city's (Amsterdam, Rotterdam etc).  I've given you a link to Pararius, my advice is for you to come to Holland by yourself, book yourself somewhere to stay via something like AirBnB, then use the Pararius link to find an area you like and can afford; then bring the rest of your family over.  Talk to your new colleagues for advice is always a good idea.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Thanks Cynic for prompt reply

my company is https://www.asml.com/asml/en/s427
the office will be in 41, De Run 1150, 5503 LA Veldhoven, Netherlands.

i have used the links of Pararius https://www.pararius.com/apartments/utrechthttps://www.pararius.com/apartments/hilversum
you advised for home search
I have few more queries:
# is Holland a nearby city in Netherlands and how is the commute means?
# is Dutch school adaptable for 7th standard kid (12 year kid of mine) or do we need to look for an international/ English school for him, probably we can go for Dutch school for my younger kid 6 year for 1st standard.
# still reating the question is it possible to manage in my situation in €3500 .

best regards,
Satish

Mmm,

12 years is a key age in Holland and will definitely affect your eldest child's education as he will be streamed into the lowest ability group - simply because he doesn't speak, read or write Dutch.  Put simply, unless he is very good and picks up the language in 12-months, good enough to be as good as a local, he probably has no chance of going to university.  So, assuming International school, then I'd say forget it, you can't afford to live in Veldhoven (I checked out Pararius) and send a child to International school (link to various schools and prices) and send 800 euro home every month - by the time you pay local taxes and health insurance, you'll have nothing left.

Cynic
Expat Team

Thanks Cynic.
I got some good idea. Better I would drop the idea to accept this offer until they offer some good amount not sure what would be that figure may be 6-6.5k net in hand may be.

satish_chaturvedi wrote:

Thanks Cynic.
I got some good idea. Better I would drop the idea to accept this offer until they offer some good amount not sure what would be that figure may be 6-6.5k net in hand may be.

Yeah - I can see your logic; there is more to life than work and for you to pick up your entire family, leave close relatives behind, move half-way around the world, for no clear benefit; in fact, the opposite may be the case, is nuts.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey.

Cynic
Expat Team

Hi, This is Pradeep, currently living in Bengaluru, India.
I will be moving to Amsterdam on 30th of June 2018. I am an IT engineer working for a reputed organization and will be in Amsterdam on deputation basis for couple of years. Looking forward to engage with the people here and get to know each other.

Thanks,
Pradeep

New here.
Italian from Milan, but most of my adult life has been spent in the UK. Lived in Norway for a while, thought about settling down there but I'm not considering the Netherlands, especially Rotterdam.

Regards

Hi All,

I came across this site and forum as my wife and I are considering relocating our family from the USA to The Netherlands. I have read through many posts and explored the handy tools - fantastic work!

I am originally from Bulgaria and hold dual BG(EU)/US citizenship which gives me hope that a potential move to The Netherlands would be less laborious. I moved to the US in 1999 and have not been back ... yet ...

I am in the telecom industry working on the cutting edge of technology (next-gen 4G, 5G, etc.) and hope that my skills will translate well with EU telecoms - from what I have seen so far, the US is a little ahead.

We have a 12 year girl and 4 year old boy who are also excited to experience European culture, sights and sounds. We are "exploring" Utrecht as a possible destination for our family. Our daughter would potentially finish up her school year as "independent study" and would start school in the second half of 2019.

I feel that it would be exponentially easier to make this kind of move with a job already lined up, and have been in discussions with a couple of companies in The Netherlands and Belgium. Alternatively my wife and I we have also discussed relocating, enjoying life for a few months and looking for a job at the same time. I have been in the corporate grind for the last 12 years with little break. Due to the insane housing market in California, we would be moving with a considerable amount of money.

The goal we have set for ourselves is March(ish) 2019  and have already started the heavy research into forms, rentals, processes, etc.

Thanks for "listening" and look forward to learning more from all the knowledgeable people here.

Ivan

ARTGIRL wrote:

Chronic illness is a kind of death in itself. I still mourn the "me" that was, but now I try to accept what I've lost but also try to see myself as a phoenix rising from the ashes, developing new interests and embracing the joy of being alive!.

Wherever we're from, wherever we are, whatever we do, this is a lesson we need to embrace.

TOP STUFF! 

mitkovpac wrote:

Hi All,

I came across this site and forum as my wife and I are considering relocating our family from the USA to The Netherlands. I have read through many posts and explored the handy tools - fantastic work!

I am originally from Bulgaria and hold dual BG(EU)/US citizenship which gives me hope that a potential move to The Netherlands would be less laborious. I moved to the US in 1999 and have not been back ... yet ...

I am in the telecom industry working on the cutting edge of technology (next-gen 4G, 5G, etc.) and hope that my skills will translate well with EU telecoms - from what I have seen so far, the US is a little ahead.

We have a 12 year girl and 4 year old boy who are also excited to experience European culture, sights and sounds. We are "exploring" Utrecht as a possible destination for our family. Our daughter would potentially finish up her school year as "independent study" and would start school in the second half of 2019.

I feel that it would be exponentially easier to make this kind of move with a job already lined up, and have been in discussions with a couple of companies in The Netherlands and Belgium. Alternatively my wife and I we have also discussed relocating, enjoying life for a few months and looking for a job at the same time. I have been in the corporate grind for the last 12 years with little break. Due to the insane housing market in California, we would be moving with a considerable amount of money.

The goal we have set for ourselves is March(ish) 2019  and have already started the heavy research into forms, rentals, processes, etc.

Thanks for "listening" and look forward to learning more from all the knowledgeable people here.

Ivan

Hi Ivan and welcome to the Forum.

At the top of the page is a link to our Handy Tools section, if you select that, you'll get access to our Expat Guides; these contain information that may be useful in planning your journey.

To answer/comment on your post.

Immigration - currently I don't see a problem in you and your family coming to live in Holland.  I say currently only because of the potential for political interference with Immigration, but that's true of many countries.

Schools - School is compulsory for all in Holland up to the age of 18; you should be aware that you're probably choosing the worse possible age for your daughter as they get streamed into different groups at that age - the "streams" are based on individual ability.  If her Dutch (spoken, written and reading) is not at a native level, she will be streamed into VMBO/MBO which, unless she is extremely bright and gets her Dutch up to the native level in the next 12-months, means she will not go to University.  The whole VMBO/MBO stream is aimed at vocational qualifications (so, mechanic as opposed to engineer).  If University is your intention for your daughter, then you should perhaps be considering sending her to an International school, for which you'll have to pay (a lot!).  Your son shouldn't be a problem; our experience of using the Dutch school system at his age was good; he'll pick up Dutch and integrate in no time.

Job - if your job/skill set is regulated, then you need to check that your qualifications are accepted in Holland and get any official recognition sorted out.  If not, then you can pretty much work wherever and whenever you wish.  You say you're in discussion with a couple of companies, so I assume you don't need any input from me on this matter.

Income etc - I'm only going to comment on this to warn you of the Dutch tax system; it can be quite a shock.  First thing is to speak to your future employer and see if you can qualify for the 30% tax break.  Second thing is that you pay tax based on where you are resident; there is a double taxation agreement in place between the US/NL, which means you won't be taxed twice on the same income.  However, this agreement does not apply to social taxes (currently 23% of all income).  If you move to Holland in March 2019, you will be assessed in Holland on your worldwide income for the whole tax-year (so, from 1 January 2019); so any capital gains (house sale?) in that period will be assessed for social taxes in Holland; the Dutch taxman (Belastingdienst) does speak to the US (IRS).

One last point - weather; stand-by for a massive culture shock.

If you have any further specific questions, please come back to us.

Cynic
Expat Team

Thanks Cynic for your response.

Still my discussion is on going with consultant.

Probably one final question is 4300-800>3500 euros enough for a family of 4 with two international school going kids.

Please suggest.

Regards,
Satish

Hi,

International school fees can cost you up to 23,000 euro p/child - depends on where you send them.  I wouldn't move.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Thanks very much!

I will post some questions in the main forum.

Great site! Very helpful.

Thanks

Ivan

Hi everyone,
I have just joined this platform to meet new people in NL, hoping to make new friends. I have been living in Deventer, Overijssel for the past 2.5years and would be thrilled to catch up over coffee nearby if possible! I'm also keen to meet up with fellow Asians/ Singaporeans too! Drop me a private message if interested

Anna

Hello everyone!! I'm new to this forum as of this week!

We have decided that we would like to start the process of myself moving to the Netherlands and we are hoping to accomplish this by end of the year, beginning of next year latest.

I have googled but WOW... There are so much to choose from. I don't even know where to start....

We're looking for a quite little place where the kids could have some chickens, bunny's, goats and sheep... but also be close enough to a town where we could find jobs and good schools. Something beautiful and tranquil.. ♥

My husband has a German passport and we are in the process of getting it for the twins as well. I am the only one with only a South African passport. But apparently can go through under EU spouse law.

We are hoping that there might be someone out there that have been recently or is currently in the same situation.

We haven't started looking for work due to the South African Home Affairs taking a bit longer with documents that we are applying for. So once we have the unabridged birth certificates, we can apply for the German passports and then should be able to start looking at jobs/housing etc...

But any ideas / info would really be appreciated.

Thank you and hopefully see you soon Netherlands ♥

Regards

Adele Blaha

Hello Ablaha,

I went through something similar a few years ago. If you can get a German passport for yourself first, that would help a lot. If not, prepare for a lot of headaches from the IND and consider hiring a lawyer first to try and minimize those headaches.

If you're going to look for work, be sure to have your residency settled beforehand and not just for BSN.
Sites that might help with that depending on your area of expertise:
monster.nl
indeed.nl
Or agencies; Olympia, Randstad etc.

For housing you might want to look at pararius.nl and funda.nl (although in my experience, funda always seemed to have more for rental properties).

Good luck.

So, I suppose this will be my introduction.

Hello, I'm Tim, a dual Australian/Dutch national.
I came to the Netherlands a few years ago after a lot of travel and avoided any and all expat communities because I didn't want to fall into the trap of speaking my mother tongue daily.
Now that I speak the language and have a bit of time this morning, I decided to have a look in on expat communities.

Dus, groetjes iedereen.

Hi I'm Marites Van de Pieterman a newlywed.Im from philippines.i want to visit my husband in the Netherlands.My husband is a Dutch man..But the problem is it's hard for me to produce a document to prove that I don't overstay on the said country.what I need to do..A little advice from you is a big help for me.Thank in advanced.

Hi Marites and welcome to the Forum.

Assuming you're talking about yourself and Holland, then they will be looking for things like a return air ticket, a letter from your boss that your job is being held for you while you are out of the country.

However, you say your husband is Dutch, why don't you apply for a family visa, then you can come and go as you please?

My advice is to get your husband to contact the IND directly; their contact details are on their website; this link will take you there.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Hi Marites,
Your question is not really clear?
So basically you want to know more about a document you have to produce that you not going to stay in the Netherlands.

If your husband is Dutch than he can also request a MVV status together with you seems to be a legit thing to do Marites.

If you have however more questions or can specify it a little bit more I could maybe help you with this, just drop me a message.

Thank you so much for your immediate respond..

Me and my husband got married last may 29 2018..Then we got the application form for applying visit visa to the netherlands  for 90 days..When I look for the list of documents that I need to present to the embassy I saw that I need to produce a document to prove that I do not overstay in the netherlands..I want to know is Do I need to produce a document even if my husband is a Dutchman?The checklist is given to me by the woman in the embassy  for visa application:VISIT TO FAMILY/FRIENDS..

Hi and welcome back.

The clue is in the word "visit" which is a temporary thing; if that's what you want, then you can apply for a 90-day visa, but you'll have to do that every time you visit your husband.  Whereas, if your plan is to ultimately come to Holland to stay with your husband, then it may be easier for you to apply for a family visa and register at your husband's address.

As I said previously, probably be a good idea for your husband to speak to the IND and get their advice.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Thank you again cynic.
    I cannot apply for family visa because i don't know how to speak dutch.Correct me if I'm wrong cynic..I thought that I need to take integration exam.So I begin to learn dutch language little by little.So for  the meantime visit visa is my option until such time that I can speak dutch so the family visa is the next..
  Thanks again,!;

Thank you again cynic.
    I cannot apply for family visa because i don't know how to speak dutch.Correct me if I'm wrong cynic..I thought that I need to take integration exam.So I begin to learn dutch language little by little.So for  the meantime visit visa is my option until such time that I can speak dutch so the family visa is the next..
  Thanks again,!;

You don't need to speak Dutch to get a visa.
That comes when you want to apply for nationality later and the courses are done when you already have residency.

TimW18 wrote:

You don't need to speak Dutch to get a visa.
That comes when you want to apply for nationality later and the courses are done when you already have residency.

Hi Tim,

You didn't have to take the exam as Australian nationals are exempt; not all nationalities can claim the exemption and do have to take an Integration exam (MVV), which includes a Dutch language test.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

In that case, I don't know how most of the ROC had students.