Investement in Lombok

It is legal for foreigners to own land in Indonesia only through a PMA...an investment company and there are lots of restrictions involved.  You can Google the topic PMA Indonesia, or consult a local attorney.

The above is correct but ONLY as above, not for private individuals.
That would be illegal and leave you open to having the land confiscated without compensation.

Regarding to iinvestment , what do you think about Lombok ? Any advices ,recommendations ..

actually, current Indonesian laws make it possible for foreigner to possess the land in form of Hak Pakai. In this way, any foreigner, can have his own name on land certificate, under the title of Hak Pakai. If your Notary said that not possible, you can ask him to go to nearest land office, to get the information

You are absolutely WRONG!  A Hak Pakai is NOT the same as a Hak Milik. 

A Hak Milik is virtually the same as what would be called a deed of ownership in western law. 

A Hak Pakai is nothing more than a lease agreement with a couple of bells and whistles added on...most especially, an extended period of the lease.  A Hak Pakai is NOT true ownership...period.

Hak pakai is also known as Lease, you don't own the land, you have the right to use that is all.

Ubudian wrote:

You are absolutely WRONG!  A Hak Pakai is NOT the same as a Hak Milik. 

A Hak Milik is virtually the same as what would be called a deed of ownership in western law. 

A Hak Pakai is nothing more than a lease agreement with a couple of bells and whistles added on...most especially, an extended period of the lease.  A Hak Pakai is NOT true ownership...period.

True, and words everyone interested in land here should read.

Ubudian wrote:

You are absolutely WRONG!  A Hak Pakai is NOT the same as a Hak Milik. 

A Hak Milik is virtually the same as what would be called a deed of ownership in western law. 

A Hak Pakai is nothing more than a lease agreement with a couple of bells and whistles added on...most especially, an extended period of the lease.  A Hak Pakai is NOT true ownership...period.

well, it seems you get the wrong perception. possess means like something is under your possession, it's very different with owning.

You are absolutely not have comprehensive understanding about Hak Pakai or you probably have misleading understanding on Hak Pakai concept. Please kindly look on www.bpn.go.id so you can gain correct understanding. I'm sure you can speak bahasa fluently... do your homework laah...

Hak Pakai is higher than lease but less than Hak Milik. If i lease a land from you, one day, you can throw me out of the street, by using a reason that i violate terms on leased agreement bla..bla..

In Hak Pakai, let say Nick buy a land 2 acre in lovina, the land title is on Hak Milik. So after signing deed sale and purchase with the seller, the Notary shall proceed further for Hak Pakai, because Non Indonesia Citizen can not have the land under hak milik, they can only have based on hak pakai.

Beside, when that Non Indonesia Citizen later sell the land to local/indonesian, do you think the purchaser can not convert the land to the Hak Milik again? come on, you are 19 years in bali, you should know better...

wellson248 wrote:

Hak pakai is also known as Lease, you don't own the land, you have the right to use that is all.

Well, when you are lease from balinese or indonesia citizen, you are not wrong.
but.. once again..
You need to have comprehensive understanding between the meaning of lease in daily property terminology, with Hak Pakai as refers to land regulation refers to BPN [land office].

If you are only borrow, are you sure the land can not be inherit? please kindly see government regulation number 103 year 2015 for your preliminary reference.

If some one told you that Hak Pakai similar as a lease, well such person probably never step his/her feet in  the land office/BPN. Please ask him/her what is the basis of his statement?

As far as i know, you could put your name to land certificate under title of Hak Pakai. If you sell again
the land to the local/WNI citizen, that land can be convert to Hak Milik again. So are you sure Hak Pakai is similar as lease? come on.. let's talk logic here... apple to apple...

We seem to have a conflict of understandings regarding land, what is allowed and who can own what.

Hak Milik is actual ownership, only individually open to Indonesians, and the land is transferable by sale, gift or inheritance to any other Indonesian.

Hak Pakai is a glorified lease but limited in time and the value falls the closer the contract is to its end. This no in NO WAY ownership but you can use the land for any purpose, that often being limited by the terms of the contract or local or government regulation.

You own a grand total of nothing.

Land under hak pakai is owned by someone who has hak milik so is not transferable to hak milik as it already has an owner.

My other house is Hak milik so I have the land certificate and no one else can legally make a land certificate for any reason unless I sell the place.
The Jakarta house is a simple year on year lease, not like the glorified hak pakai long term lease.

A simple lease doesn't really require a notary as potential losses are small but a longer term hak pakai lease would really require professional services for the contract as the money is a lot bigger.

Building requires a permit regardless of the type of title the property is under, the same goes if you wish to change the use you put the land to.

Is hak pakai a lease? yes, but a fancy one.

“Well, it seems you get the wrong perception. possess means like something is under your possession, it's very different with owning.” 

If you will note the original post “Nashrty” asks, “is it eligible for foreigners to own lands in Indonesia…?”  It is with his use of the term “ownership” that I wrote my responses.  The definition of ownership is: “the act, state, or right of possessing something (as with) the ownership of land.”  Conversely the standard English definition of possession is: “the state of having, owning or controlling something.” 

If it seems to you that some expats here (including myself) are splitting hairs, it's because we are used to foreigners being mislead, (either purposely or by way of “lost in translation”) during the course of real estate transactions here.   

"...you are 19 years in bali, you should know better..."

I assure you that I do...and that's just one reason why I have been able to avoid costly mistakes.   

Cheers!   

Lombok is good place to invest, if you are foreigner the safest way to own the land is through your PT PMA.

Fred wrote:

We seem to have a conflict of understandings regarding land, what is allowed and who can own what.

Hak Milik is actual ownership, only individually open to Indonesians, and the land is transferable by sale, gift or inheritance to any other Indonesian.

Hak Pakai is a glorified lease but limited in time and the value falls the closer the contract is to its end. This no in NO WAY ownership but you can use the land for any purpose, that often being limited by the terms of the contract or local or government regulation.

You own a grand total of nothing.

Land under hak pakai is owned by someone who has hak milik so is not transferable to hak milik as it already has an owner.

My other house is Hak milik so I have the land certificate and no one else can legally make a land certificate for any reason unless I sell the place.
The Jakarta house is a simple year on year lease, not like the glorified hak pakai long term lease.

A simple lease doesn't really require a notary as potential losses are small but a longer term hak pakai lease would really require professional services for the contract as the money is a lot bigger.

Building requires a permit regardless of the type of title the property is under, the same goes if you wish to change the use you put the land to.

Is hak pakai a lease? yes, but a fancy one.

well Sir, i'm sure you are confuse between hak pakai and lease (practically use).In Indonesia, the terms lease  in daily use is sewa/kontrak. plis refers to regulation i mentioned in my previous comment. it will be better when you can provide the law/regulation from bpn, RoI or some other law applied in bali, to support your understanding, just to make sure we are on the same page. If you go to bpn you should understand the regulation, so you will not get lost..cheers..

Ubudian wrote:

“Well, it seems you get the wrong perception. possess means like something is under your possession, it's very different with owning.” 

If you will note the original post “Nashrty” asks, “is it eligible for foreigners to own lands in Indonesia…?”  It is with his use of the term “ownership” that I wrote my responses.  The definition of ownership is: “the act, state, or right of possessing something (as with) the ownership of land.”  Conversely the standard English definition of possession is: “the state of having, owning or controlling something.” 

If it seems to you that some expats here (including myself) are splitting hairs, it's because we are used to foreigners being mislead, (either purposely or by way of “lost in translation”) during the course of real estate transactions here.   

"...you are 19 years in bali, you should know better..."

I assure you that I do...and that's just one reason why I have been able to avoid costly mistakes.   

Cheers!   

well, i assume you can get confirmation from the notary in regards to hak pakai in bali for foreigner. Posses as in bali means and refers to bezit, from dutch law. If you would like to know more, you can go to faculty of law, udayana university, so you could gain comprehensive understanding on this matters. As you know, many foreign people "get lost" in bali,due to poor understanding of Indonesian Law. You can not understand hak pakai, when you are not fully understand the concept of bezit. the outcome is very clear, you will get lost in BPN (land office). in the end this kind of people will only monetize the client by advise them to use pt pma rather than using hak pakai.

the main principle to get land certificate:
1.understand the land right eligible for foreigner
2. know the regulation

land office/ bpn will not have any excuse in case you show them the law and you understand the bali concept of land in accordance with prevailing laws and regulation in bali, one of them is Peraturan Pemerintah No. 103 tahun 2015 tentang pemilikan rumah/tempat tinggal bagi orang asing (house ownership/place to stay for foreigner). remember, BPN / land officer is not require any understanding regardless you took it from webster dictionary or any fancy concept that you have. you will need to show them what you want and you already understand the procedure/ the law as legal basis to apply
cheers..

fatahillah-hoed wrote:

Fred wrote:

Is hak pakai a lease? yes, but a fancy one.

well Sir, i'm sure you are confuse between hak pakai and lease (practically use).In Indonesia, the terms lease  in daily use is sewa/kontrak.

Not even slightly. Hak pakai is just a fancy, long term lease, not a lot more.
The thing is normally long term, but never owned, and the land reverts back to the owner at the end of the contract.

article 2 section1 Peraturan Pemerintah no.135 tahun 2015:

Orang asing dapat memiliki rumah tinggal atau hunian dengan hak pakai (Foreigner may have a place to stay or a house with hak pakai)

in article 4 of the regulation:

rumah tinggal sebagaimana dimaksud  ps 2 ayat 1 merupakan:
a. rumah tinggal di atas tanah:
     1.  Hak Pakai; atau
      2. Hak Pakai di atas Hak Milik yang dikuasai berdasarkan perjanjian pemberian hak atas tanah dengan akta PPAT.

So, there are two kind of Hak Pakai, Hak Pakai that you already known as Lease is the number 2, as you said as fancy long term lease. this is hak pakai above hak milik.

what i have mentioned is the number 1.

As I have said already, a fancy long term lease.

A note to expats considering investing investing, lots of people will try to convince you it's legal to own land, will be happy to set up dodgy schemes where you own land but it's in an Indonesian's name, or try to make a long term lease sound like it's something it's not.
Whatever way they try to push their sales, the best you can manage legally is a fancy long term lease that will allow you do do pretty much as you like for a set period of time, but reverts back to the landowner in full at the end of that time, that including any buildings you've constructed (unless there's something in the contract to state otherwise).
Foreigners can't buy a villa on Lombok or anywhere else in Indonesia.

I am not sure that this thread will lead anywhere. The OP now plans to open a restaurant and B&B in Labuan Bajo. He also is having difficulties trying to rent a motorbike for one day in Jakarta. I am not sure that anything much will come of this since it is complex and costly to say the least. Certainly, the OP needs to seek legal advice.

Let's get away from messing around with word play and get to facts

Nashrty wrote:

Dears,
is it eligible for foreigners to own lands in Indonesia

With some exceptions for foreign companies - No.

That 'No' is pretty much absolute, and includes dodgy nominee agreements and all the other 'owning land' tricks dodgy estate agents use to rip you off and attempt to to use to get around the law.
Also, forget all that total crap about hak whatever - nothing legal can be done as far as owning land is concerned, except the aforementioned company set up.
All that rubbish about a long term lease, because that's all it is, is NOT ownership in any way, shape, or form.
Anyone that tries to convince you otherwise is either wrong or trying to rip you off.

Nashrty wrote:

and what are the investment opportunities in Lombok and  if you can recommend any good local broker or investment advisor i will be thankful.
Regards

There are opportunities a plenty.
Lombok is nothing short of beautiful and a popular tourist destination.
With the correct company (PT PMA) and the correct immigration documents, there's potential to be grabbed, and an amazing place to live as a bonus.

You actually have to visit Lombok to understand how amazing the place is; it isn't just the terrific beaches, water sports and all the rest, there's a wonderful relaxed and extremely friendly atmosphere that makes the place very attractive.

you get it right, NO means NO.
if someone say you could have it.carefull with the law problem in the future.
after all the law is in there, you could check it anytime. you might play it easy with it

well Sir, yes..or...you can go to related gov. office first, seek their perspective, than get legal advise to see many probability from that perspective...😎

fatahillah-hoed wrote:

well Sir, yes..or...you can go to related gov. office first, seek their perspective, than get legal advise to see many probability from that perspective...😎

He could, but it's a waste of time going to ask if he's allowed to break the law.

well, the good legal advise shall not advise to break the law. if the advise is to break the law, the terms will be illegal advise.

A lawyer is a total waste of time.
All he's doing is increasing the chances of being ripped off by some con merchant proposing an illegal scheme of some sort.

This is easy - No foreign private citizen can legally own land in Indonesia.

No ifs, no buts, just NO.

Nashrty wrote:

Dears,

is it eligible for foreigners to own lands in Indonesia and what are the investment opportunities in Lombok and  if you can recommend any good local broker or investment advisor i will be thankful.

Regards

To the question in hand.

Private individuals aren't able to buy legally in any way, that including dodgy nominee schemes.

Foreign owned PT businesses can if they follow the appropriate rules, those including a very large investment.

You can check OSS Indonessia.First make deed of establishment from notary in Indonesia.

There are list of business listed in OSS,membership (excluding mining and those under OJK)

If you have any other quiries.pm me.cheers

I have no idea about invest in lombok... but if you can find out about mentawai, i could give the best outlook to you... mentawai has the best opportunity qbout tourism sector...  surfing,culture etc...
Just shoot me a massage ***
Thank you