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Bringing parents to Netherlands

Hi,
I've seen similar threads but never exactly same circumstances.  Hope that someone can provide guidance.

My wife, myself, and my two children will be relocating to the Netherlands later in 2016 for work.  The four of us are Canadian citizens, but my wife also has Irish citizenship.  I believe that I'll be getting a "Highly Skilled Worker" visa, but for argument's sake, let's see if this still works with a regular work visa.

My mother is 84 years old.  I'm her only child, and while she doesn't live with us, she does depend on me to be around.  So, I'd like to relocate her as well.

Will my work visa/highly skilled visa allow me to bring her in for residency (in order for her to be able to stay longer than 6 months and be able to purchase the public healthcare)?  If not, would she alternatively be able to come in given that she is mother-in-law to an EU citizen (my wife)?

I'm assuming that my mother-in-law (the mother of the EU citizen) would have no issues entering herself as direct blood relative of an EU citizen despite not being an EU citizen herself.

Thanks in advance!

Two comments:

the first one is on your last comment: don't assume that your mil have an easy access despite she is a parent of an EU citizen and she's not. It depends on her valid passport.

According to this site your mother can come with you but  you (or she) needs to prove that she's depending on you. How and what to prove doesn't say.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/re … dex_en.htm

The best what you can do is to visit the nearest Dutch Embassy for better and more clarification.

Good luck and all the best.

Primadonna
Many thanks for your response, that helps.
You're right that I shouldn't be complacent in assuming that the mil will be allowed just because she is mother to an EU citizen.  I've taken your advice and written to the Dutch consulate in Canada.  Assuming that I get a response that lets me understand the facts, I'll post the answer back here in case someone else is in a similar situation in the future.

That would be great, thanks.

As an update, the Canadian consulate has gotten back to me and sent me to IND to get a ruling.  I've e-mailed them and now await their answer.
I was also forwarded this link:
https://ind.nl/EN/individuals/residence … fault.aspx

While I'll let IND do the ruling, it seems fairly clear that my mother-in-law would be eligible simply by virtue of being mother to the EU citizen.  For my mother, it appears that eligibility would be based on financial/health dependence given that one of the other criteria (that she's living with us here) is not applicable.

Hi,
So here's the "conclusion" to this.

My mother-in-law (mother of EU citizen) = no issue.  Just needs to prove her relationship with the EU citizen, have a valid passport, and not "be a threat".

My mother (mother-in-law of EU citizen) is a bit more complicated.  She can stay if she proves a couple of things.  Such as either living with us for 6+ months prior to the move.  Or that she depends on us financially or medically.  The key with these is that they rely on documents from "competent authorities" that these are true.  My further question to IND is what qualifies as a "competent authority".
So, in short, she can do it, but there'll have to be some documentation in place.  Nothing that a good immigration lawyer can't help us ensure that we have.  Without that documentation, though... she can only stay a max of 3 months.

D.

So sorry to hear that but I expected that somehow ...
You need to concentrate on the documents.
Try to prove that she's depending on you, social isolation etc.

Competent Authority (CA) = Government Body responsible for legislation.  So health = Health Ministry; defence = defence ministry etc etc.

That said, I know in the UK that some CA's are actually agencies of Government departments, for example The Environment Agency are a CA for environmental matters, but not an actual Government Department (known as a "Executive non-departmental public body".

Agree with that definition of "Competent authority".  Thus, which Competent authority will provide documentation that she was living with me, or that she relies on me for financial/physical support that can't be provided by anyone else?  It's gray in those cases, and IND could clarify no further.

Yes!
Because it's a grey area and apparently they are different for each country. Maybe for this the IND can't clarify what you exactly need.

These seem to be social care issues; I just checked the Canadian Government website and it seems this is devolved to individual Provinces; this link gives you the contact details for each; I'd start with that.

Hi there, RicoSuave.

I'd like to know if you had any troubles to take your mother-in-law to live with you in the Netherlands.

I have a similar situation. I'm a EU-citizen and I'd like to take my mom to live with me in the Netherlands (like your wife). I'm moving two months from now probably. But the IND said that there are no way to my mother come permanently. Look what they've said:

"I understand you and your husband want to come and live in the Netherlands. You have the Portuguese nationality . You want to know if your mother can come and live with you in the Netherlands. Your husband will have sufficient income to support the whole family. Your mother has the Brazilian nationality.

The IND has no options for non- EU parents to come and join their family for more than 90 days. It is only possible to apply for a short term visa to invite your mother to the Netherlands for a period of 90 days within a period of 180 days. For more information  you can look at https://ind.nl/en/short-stay.
"

I don't know in whom I should trust because the EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre said just the opposite:

"We wish to inform you that if you are an EU citizen moving to another EU country to live, work or study, EU rules make it easier for your family to join you.

Your non-EU parents may stay with you in another EU country. If they stay for less than 3 months, all they need is a valid passport and sometimes, depending on the country they are from, an entry visa.

If you are working in another EU country, as an employee, self-employed or on a posting, your non-EU mother can stay there with you without having to meet any other conditions.

However, she must apply for a residence document with the authorities in the host country (often the town hall or local police station) within 3 months of arriving.
During her stay in your new country, your non-EU parent should be treated as national, notably regarding access to employment, pay and benefits facilitating access to work and enrolment in schools.

If you do not work, your mother can stay with you in your new country on certain conditions and you must be able to demonstrate that and meet the necessary conditions.
"

Any thoughts on this?

familiabmmr :

Hi there, RicoSuave.

I'd like to know if you had any troubles to take your mother-in-law to live with you in the Netherlands.

I have a similar situation. I'm a EU-citizen and I'd like to take my mom to live with me in the Netherlands (like your wife). I'm moving two months from now probably. But the IND said that there are no way to my mother come permanently. ........................  any thoughts on this?

To be honest, except that the Europe Direct version has used lots more words to basically say the same thing as IND, I don't see any difference in the substance of the two statements.

Basically, a non-EU citizen does not have the right to live and work in Holland (or anywhere else in the EU); they have to apply to IND.  They can "visit" for up to 90 days in a 180 day period and depending where they are from, may need a Visa.

Thank you very much for your reply, Cynic.  :top:

Well... My understanding was very different from yours... I don't think is almost the same thing... Maybe it's my English understanding.

When I read "If you are working in another EU country, as an employee, self-employed or on a posting, your non-EU mother can stay there with you without having to meet any other conditions" (the European Direct reply) I understood that she can live with me only filling some criterias.

I really understand that she need a Visa, an authorization to stay longer than 90 days, but is that so impossible?  :(  :sosad:

familiabmmr :

Thank you very much for your reply, Cynic.  :top:

Well... My understanding was very different from yours... I don't think is almost the same thing... Maybe it's my English understanding.

When I read "If you are working in another EU country, as an employee, self-employed or on a posting, your non-EU mother can stay there with you without having to meet any other conditions" (the European Direct reply) I understood that she can live with me only filling some criterias.

I really understand that she need a Visa, an authorization to stay longer than 90 days, but is that so impossible?  :(  :sosad:

I've hi-lighted 2 words from the Europe Direct information you quoted.  "Can stay", does not mean "Can live".  Stay is temporary, live is permanent.

Perhaps you are reading too much in this; unlike yourself (EU citizen), your mother (non-EU citizen) does not have the right to enter Holland to live and maybe work, without complying with certain restrictions (i.e. a visa).  You can just turn up, show your EU passport, and you're in; she can't.

No matter what her intentions are, she will need some kind of visa (there are different types).  I'm not saying she can't live in Holland, of course she can, she just has to go through a few more hoops than yourself before she can do so.  The solution is for her to apply for a Visa to live and work in Holland; there is no guarantee it will be granted.  This link may help you.

Hi all,
I don't have a definite answer for you, but I believe the replies thus far guide in the right way.  To break it down simply, as I understand it:

Non-EU parent of a non-EU resident of the EU: They will need to apply for their own residency based on their own merits unless they can meet certain hurdles (such as proof that the parent is entirely dependent on the child, for one).  Other than meeting the hurdles, the fact that their child is in the EU will have no bearing on the decision.  If they meet the hurdles, they will need to apply for residency under a different scheme.

Non-EU parent of an EU resident:  They will need to apply for residency using the family scheme.  There is no guarantee of admittance, but the wording seems preferential (at least to me), and would suggest that this is entirely possible providing there is no explicit reason why the parent could not be admitted.  In fact (and please don't trust me, you'll need to research), my understanding is that the parent is eligible for national health care from the moment of their registration in NL while determination of their suitability for residency is being determined.

On a personal level, we were trying to bring my mom (non-EU) into the NL while I have residency there as non-EU.  I could not dream up of ways that she could have met the hurdles, and hence we judged that it was likely that she'd have to apply on her own merits, which we went on to decide was going to be near impossible.  As such, we did not proceed.

To quote one of my favourite Dutchisms, often used when they've given you a very unclear answer, which I'm afraid the above is (and I can't do any better)...  I trust that I have informed you sufficiently.  :)

Cynic :
familiabmmr :

Hi there, RicoSuave.

I'd like to know if you had any troubles to take your mother-in-law to live with you in the Netherlands.

I have a similar situation. I'm a EU-citizen and I'd like to take my mom to live with me in the Netherlands (like your wife). I'm moving two months from now probably. But the IND said that there are no way to my mother come permanently. ........................  any thoughts on this?

To be honest, except that the Europe Direct version has used lots more words to basically say the same thing as IND, I don't see any difference in the substance of the two statements.

Basically, a non-EU citizen does not have the right to live and work in Holland (or anywhere else in the EU); they have to apply to IND.  They can "visit" for up to 90 days in a 180 day period and depending where they are from, may need a Visa.

That's how I read it too but I am very curious to know what they mean with certain conditions.

RicoSuave :

Hi all,
I don't have a definite answer for you, but I believe the replies thus far guide in the right way.  To break it down simply, as I understand it:

Non-EU parent of a non-EU resident of the EU: They will need to apply for their own residency based on their own merits unless they can meet certain hurdles (such as proof that the parent is entirely dependent on the child, for one).  Other than meeting the hurdles, the fact that their child is in the EU will have no bearing on the decision.  If they meet the hurdles, they will need to apply for residency under a different scheme.

Non-EU parent of an EU resident:  They will need to apply for residency using the family scheme.  There is no guarantee of admittance, but the wording seems preferential (at least to me), and would suggest that this is entirely possible providing there is no explicit reason why the parent could not be admitted.  In fact (and please don't trust me, you'll need to research), my understanding is that the parent is eligible for national health care from the moment of their registration in NL while determination of their suitability for residency is being determined.

On a personal level, we were trying to bring my mom (non-EU) into the NL while I have residency there as non-EU.  I could not dream up of ways that she could have met the hurdles, and hence we judged that it was likely that she'd have to apply on her own merits, which we went on to decide was going to be near impossible.  As such, we did not proceed.

To quote one of my favourite Dutchisms, often used when they've given you a very unclear answer, which I'm afraid the above is (and I can't do any better)...  I trust that I have informed you sufficiently.  :)

I agree with most of that and as I said previously, that's what IND have told you.  With regards to healthcare; as you've specifically mentioned it, am I right in reading that this is an important factor in bringing your mother to Holland?

The issue regarding entitlement and registration is that once you have been admitted legally into Holland, you must register at the Gemeente; once you register, you receive a BSN number and this number is required to enable you to register with a GP (and also open a bank account, get a driving licence, pay taxes etc), through which, all Dutch medical services are administered; i.e. you can't just turn up at a hospital, you must arrange this through your GP.  The fact you are registered does not entitle anybody to healthcare, just to register with a doctor and provide their Health Insurance details. 

In general, everybody in Holland pays for personal healthcare; there is no free at the point of delivery National Health Service such as in the UK; the cost of healthcare is approx 50/50 between the State (via legislation) and the citizen (I think my daughter pays about €150, her employer another €150); then because the basic healthcare insurance system does not cover everything, everybody has to pay an additional "surcharge" (I think €385) per year, if you use the service - for example, if you went to the doctor and required regular medication, the patient has to pay the first €385 of the cost of that medication; how this works (I think; haven't used it for a while) is that you pay up front and send receipts to your Insurer; after €385, you get some money back - but not the €385.  Also, the medication you receive is always the cheapest option that effectively treats your illness; this is controlled by the pharmacist that issues your prescription, not your doctor.  There is a "list" of approved medications.

If you work, it is charged to you and your employer pays the legislative contribution, if you are retired, unemployed or an asylum seeker, then you still pay your part, but the other half is deducted from your social funds money/pension; if you have none of this, then it is all up to you to pay the whole contribution.  This is charged regardless of age or status.  Retired citizens of other EU countries are covered by their own home country.

When I first lived in Holland and received my residence permit, it had written on it something along the lines of "not entitled to any state benefits"; your mother will be treated the same.  I got in as the spouse of a Dutch citizen; this changed with changes in the EU rules, but the bit about non-entitled citizens has always been there.

Ricosuave,

I am in a similar situation. I have a job offer from a company in Netherlands. I plan to move with my wife and widow mother. She is totally dependent with me and loving with me since my father's death (3 year back). I am currently working in Singapore and have an Indian passport. What's the best option for me to get my mother for a long term?

Hi,

I hope bringing the mother in this situation is possible and there is a way to do it.
Were you able to find out ?

I too belong to the same situation. Your help will definetely help me.

Thanks,
Yogendra

yogendra_nama :

Hi,

I hope bringing the mother in this situation is possible and there is a way to do it.
Were you able to find out ?

I too belong to the same situation. Your help will definetely help me.

Thanks,
Yogendra

Hi,

Have you got it sorted or anyone else has visa sorted for their parents?

Thanks,
Rahol

I must stress up-front that I have no direct experience of this, but in general, my understanding is that under the family re-unification rules, it is possible to bring a single parent who is over 65; but you must earn enough with a proper contracted job (>12 month contract) to fully support him/her (it was >1,400 euros gross) and if they come from one of those countries where it's required, they also have to go through the MVV process.

My advice is to talk to the IND directly and explain your circumstances; their contact information is available from this link.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
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