Communication gap - can someone explain?

I guess I was mistaken when I took this to be a discussion board, and now I see it's actually a presentation board. I see people enjoy reading other people's posts but very few, if any, leave a response. I guess this shows that the expat community in Kenya (in addition to the Kenya natives, as my original post showed) is not very welcoming to other expats. I'll have to find some interaction with others elsewhere.

Hi shpadre,

Your story is so funny !!!  What you are saying is not new to me...  People misunderstanding what you are saying, or saying "yes" and doing the contrary of what you asked for.

I think the main issue is education...  Most Kenyan did not finish school properly and therefore are under-educated.  They speak broken or poor English (and even poor Swahili) to speak a kind of sheng (urban mix of swahili and English).  And secondly, they are consequently a bit slow to pick what you are saying and doing it correctly is another story all together.

With time, you will be able to better interact with Kenyans ?  Before saying, just observe the person and see what is his "level of comprehension" then adjust yourself to his level.
Speak slowly, use very simple phrase even if they are rude ("give me this" instead of "would you mind to give me...").

And last but not least, always check what the person is doing to make sure he got it right...

Your post made me laugh !!!

Hello there!
I disagree with Peperuka's post on this topic. Kenyans are an educated bunch. This may simply be an issue of "lost in translation" no need to insult the locals peperuka! Kenyans speak Swahili quite well, it's vernacular and is a compulsory subject in school from Nursery school to University and is widely spoken countrywide. Kiswahili is an official national language besides English. Sheng (which is a mixture of English and Swaili-a kind of patois if you will, is mainly spoken outside of school-usually by teenagers.

Speaking slowly as peperuka suggested could be construed as an insult. As a foreigner/visitor, you have to be willing to immerse yourself in the local culture in order to understand its nuances.

A few suggestions:
* Speak clearly- intonation is key- locals would typically be used to local dialect/local pronunciation. If the person seems hesitant(perhaps due to your accent/pronunciation) repeat the request and point politely to whatever it is you want.
* Visit venues where you can interact with other Kenyans. A few examples: local libraries, Kenyan Archives, National Theatre, Uhuru Park (especially on the weekend for a lovely picnic)etc
* Visit schools (call first)to share some of your culture (e.g. during school functions) and in the process learn about the culture.

The list goes on and on. You have to venture out and interact with locals to really get a sense of this wonderful country. As always, be aware of your surroundings and stay safe especially in the big cities e.g. Nairobi.

Oh gosh.  How have you survived?  How terrible!  No cake!  Poor you!

...are you serious...?!?!?! 

I assume from your disdain for the local people that you consider yourself to be well educated, articulate and so forth... yet you (it would appear) have a total disregard for your alien status in this wonderful country! 

We're living in a 3rd world african country where many people live in abject poverty and hunger, and you think its acceptable to belittle the local people for their lack of understanding of cake dimensions!  Are you serious?!  Did you speak to them in Swahili?  Did you ask what their mother tongue was?  I guarantee it wasnt swahili... and it definitely wasnt english.  And even if you were able to converse with them in perfect kikuyu or whatever tribal language, I can be pretty certain that they wouldnt have enjoyed lavish sugar laden cakes on their own birthdays - so why should they understand your exact questions now? 

For an insight into the diverse cultures of the kenyan people I refer you to the comedy-theatre show currently running at Alliance Francaise in the centre of town - 'The 43rd Kenyan Tribe' being presented by Heartstrings Kenya. Yes - its mostly in kiswahili- but it is narrated in english for those 'westerners' who refuse to immerse themselves in the language and culture of this amazing country.

Failing that read some Malinowski - or other 19th century ethnographers - for the 'big white man' take on life outside of the 'civilised' west.

Or better still... perhaps take yourself back to the land of hamburgers and lawsuits and be done with it.  Better for you. Definitely better for this country.

Am caught in between dissapointment and utter disbelief,may I say utter utter disbelief.Am not sure whether I can even place you in any of the ignorant,self righteous categories of people in the human race,I feel like you just took it to a whole new level mister.I mean surely,its got to be the kenyans who have a national epidemic of the stupid fever.Sure its all of them,not you,how could it be you.How can everyone around you have be having a problem with only you.
But being who I am,am tempted to be empathetic and attempt to understand the situation.Saying that kenyans are under educated (Peperuka) is beyond laughable.so i will not go into that,because i am not in a laughing mood after reading this.I will just suppport whats been said on the other responses,and also because you had recognized a possible cause of the problem in your post.Its got to be an intonation or accent issue with the attendants at the shopping centres for example.I am a kenyan,and by nature of our national education system we begin to learn english and speak english as toddlers.I dont want to make my response personal because its not necessary.I support the suggestion to speak slower and use simpler sentences,not so slow that the person thinks you assume they are mentally challenged,but slow enough and word by word.As kenyans,we start to speak 3 languages simultaneously from the time we are born and each person a different mothertongue,so this makes dialects change from one person to the next,thus the root of the problem.Trying to speak word by word am sure will ease the accent issue.
As for your house-help,i think she should be at ease to ask you a question,could it be that you are unnecessarily harsh with her that she fears asking a question will result in a 'I just told you a minute ago!' kind of ensuing? If you are not so,then how about word by word with her too.

You all got me wrong on this...

May be the terms "under-educated" or "most" were too strong ?  OK, the term "lost in translation" may be better. 

I think that you are taking this too personally, yep primary is free since Kibaki and secondary free since 2008 (well, is it ?). But the reality is that a majority of children stops school at secondary (at least 85 %) and only a minority attends higher institutions. 

@waterlilly - "we begin to learn english and speak english as toddlers" - you are a lucky girl... "Am not sure whether I can even place you in any of the ignorant, self righteous categories of people in the human race, I feel like you just took it to a whole new level mister." - Nice but not funny, you lost me here  !! I guess you are an educated girl who presumably went to private schools and got higher education and can't face the reality that most Kenyans are under-educated.  Sorry, but again, you are taking this too personally.

"local libraries, Kenyan Archives, National Theatre, schools, Alliance Francaise" - well, places for educated people.  Try also to meet casual workers at industrial area, especially at the gate of EPZ zones and go to choma places in surrounding areas from Embakasi, Buruburu, Kayole to Kasarani.

Sorry but it happens to me so many times, you ask for "black" you get "white" and you ask for "white" you get "black". But I agree with expat_brit_in_kenya: live with it, let it be, take it with a smile; there are more urgent problems in this "Failed State" called Kenya.   

Well, you can conclude whatever you want but please stop misjudging me, I was just trying to give an answer to Shpadre who was crying for an answer and never came back.

It's my turn to take it personally then, went to see Shpadre blog and found the end of the story there - http://middlebulge.blogspot.com/2009/05 … enya.html.

@Shpadre - You seems to complain a lot about Kenya livestyle - My advice, ask your God and organise an "Healing the Cake" ceremony, it will greatly help Kenyan to make nice cake. By the way, I thought cakes were popular in churches .

@all - And yes, my English is far from perfect, I am French.  You can call me under-educated

Be nice here, pleaaaaaaase.

I think this is a good example of a self righteous individual who looks down upon the locals.  She fails to realize that she makes herself sound foolish.  By going home with a chicken thinking that it is turkey is in itself stupid.  Perhaps, this individual needs to understand that the problem might be herself.  She speaks incoherently and blames it on the maid, who only seeks clarification.  She needs to remove the specks from her own eye before heaping blames on others.

I desperately tried to not make my earlier post sound personal,but I guess I failed,and maybe I couldnt help it.I did try to be nice and opinionated at the same time and I apologize if i came off as harsh or one-sided.Its very right that for most kenyans who cannot afford learning costs beyond secondary school,education stops there.But english is introduced at a very early age,latest 5 years of age even in rural kenya,and I was just appalled by the original post because the implication was just too general and perhaps unfair.With saying this,am just trying to put it out that,while some people from Kayole may not speak as affluently as you and I can,they can certainly understand every single english word.And i dont say this from assumption,i grew up in the very same forementioned Embakasi,and the dream of a private school was far from near for me,i attended a normal no-gist school,and yet i can manage this much.I just had to pop the baloon of the owner of the original post.Am way,way nice

peperuka get yo information right..

@shpadre reading your post was quite perplexing to say the least and I found myself in the verge of saying some nasty stuff but then I was like it must be that you are abit ignorant. I mean did you expect the country to be like wherever you came from? I also found myself wondering what exactly you do there. I mean, if you are the rescue kind, then I pity the people you work with. Again am assuming that you interact with the locals, apart from bakers and house helps.

As an American am sure you know what it means to have regional accents. I mean if you are from the South, and especially Apparachian, I know what am talking about. I would suggest you adapt to the culture as everybody alse does when come into contact with other cultures apart form their own, or just ship yourself back stateside.

@peperuka, I guess being misjudged is part of the deal. Am sure majority of those frenchies are educated, right? Farm hands in rural Corsica and chic Parisians are equally as educated.

@eightysix - Got my info right...  What are you disagreeing with ??

@mwenzetu - yeah, it's part of the deal. And yes, I am French and I consider French people are under-educated (it was not a joke).

kenya is on the top list of educated people in Africa, You go everywhere or anywhere, east south north or west of Kenya you are sure to get even the  street boys who can express themselves in English so saying a whole bunch of things here without information is not cool..

Eightysix, sorry man but I totally disagree with you on this.

And I don't say things here without information;  I am subsribed to over 100 kenyan blogs, I follow up Kenyan news every single day and I am part of .ke twittosphere.

Yes, street boys are good to say "Please buy me bread" or "I need money to buy glue".  OK, most people speak English (broken or good English) but what do you expect, English is one of the national language of Kenya, so yes you do expect people to speak English; and TVs are almost everywhere which was not the case 6 years ago.  Nonetheless, the fact is that when you ask for "black" you sometimes get the contrary "white"

And Kenya is far from being on the top list; before there is Seychelles, Mauritius, Tunisia, Gabon, Algeria, Syrian Arab Republic, Equatorial Guinea, Cape Verde, Egypt, Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, Morocco, Sao Tome and Principe, Congo, Comoros, Yemen, Swaziland, Angola and Madagascar.
http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/countries/d … s_KEN.html

But as you may know, Kibaki has launched a new programme to develop universities in Kenya and with the arrival of optic cable and digital universities and other technologies, Kenyan education can only improve (like cheating at KNEC exam hehehe)

To conclude, we should not blame Kenyans but their politicians for turning Kenya into a "faile state" or "banana republic".  Read Obama's speech in Ghana blesisng Ghana and dreaming of better Kenya.

I must admit, that I also see the humor in the problem. I hope you will too with time :-)
I have no solutions, other than one can maybe gently seek clarification with the individuals in question, if time and context permit?
Misunderstandings are inherent in all cross-cultural meets...I know this...having lived in three different countries.
Hopefully one has the blessing of seeing the humor in it all :-)

Wow, this is an interesting way to get indoctrinated into the forum....
My 2 cents, visitors/aliens just have to be very patient, one of the first things that struck me and perplexed my mother was how many folks didnt say hello to us or respond when we did in our apartment building and our nanny didnt as well, mornings were for 'getting on' but we soon got used to it, everyone behaves differently and on the note of communication, i have interacted with my Kenyan colleagues and believe me there is a lot going on behind the seeming vacant stares.... they have assessed the situation mostly and probably deemed the visitor as a not so smart jit and decided to not pay you any interest.

Getting worked up does not achieve any results, the opposite occurs mostly, smile and repeat and repeat again if you must, i am from another African country and i guess when i remember taking the piss when "some european" is feeling superior, it helps me cope better. And besides some of the worst service i have ever received in my life happened in the UK.

#deadamdburried#   Smh !!!!! #flickshairandwalksaway#

I'd suggest speaking in Swahili if you are not being understood in English.

That being said I have experienced similar problem when in the USA, even with something as simple as "Cnn I have a ham sandwich please?".  The good people of Philadelphia don't seem to understand English.

or being greeted in the hotel with "Good morning, how are you today?" And then the look of abject terror in the eyes of the questioner when I respond and ask after their well being. being British I thing a polite response is the norm, but it would seem that the "American way" is simply to ignore it. Yes, I am being provocative.

As others have suggested, learn to live with the way things are or move to another country would seem to be the answer.

Have a nice day