Renting property

Rosequartz wrote:

Is it easy to rent property.We wish to purchase a flat for holiday let what are the pro's and cons.
legal situation.
Terry

Depends what you mean "holiday flat" and where.   Unless you are here all the time, you'll need an agent to look after it.  You only have to look on Airbnb or other booking sites to see there is plenty of competition.   If you mean holiday flat down in Balaton, it'll be empty 60-70% of the time.  Here in Budapest, probably you could have it occupied 60-70% of the time on short term lets (days).

Rosequartz wrote:

legal situation

See here for some legal issues:

http://travel.stackexchange.com/questio … irbnb-host

Also, you must pay the required overnight guest fee for each renter to the local government.

fluffy2560 wrote:

If you mean holiday flat down in Balaton, it'll be empty 60-70% of the time.

That is generous. Our neighbors across the street from us have rental units, and from my experience over the years watching, the decline has been significant. They really can now rent only when there is some local "special" event, resulting in actually almost zero occupancy even during the "tourist season".

Over the years, people are more and more moving their vacations to Croatia or other Mediterranean options. The "Balaton" is declining as an international, and even local, tourist destination.

Yes the prices got so high in Balaton that regular working class people couldn't afford to rent rooms for holidays and those with money and easy, cheap airfare want to see other places.
The season is so short that it is a real risk to make any large amount of money.
A bad .wet summer could set you back.
My son's ex MIL has a villa at Balaton, used to be packed with holiday guests.
Over the past 15 or so years she saw less and less renters. Of course she bought years ago when it was cheaper there.
She had to do other small side business to pay for the upkeep on her large vacation villa.
We stayed there once, she had a huge place with at least 6 rooms to let, hard to fill it up these days.
In the old days locals couldn't really leave HU and their company jobs used to offer very low rates for vacation rentals for their 2 weeks vacation time.
Many of these hotels and big houses were co. owned properties . They let their workers enjoy 2 weeks of holiday every year.
Many people from east Germany would come to Balaton to meet their family from west Germany.
My yoga instructor from Munich ( now lives in Vegas) used to come to Balaton almost every year as a child to see relations who lived in east Germany.
Now that the wall is down so is the flood of Germans coming to Balaton.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

If you mean holiday flat down in Balaton, it'll be empty 60-70% of the time.

That is generous. Our neighbors across the street from us have rental units, and from my experience over the years watching, the decline has been significant. They really can now rent only when there is some local "special" event, resulting in actually almost zero occupancy even during the "tourist season".

Over the years, people are more and more moving their vacations to Croatia or other Mediterranean options. The "Balaton" is declining as an international, and even local, tourist destination.

Yes, I surrender, I was guessing optimistically but not without reason.  I suppose if it's cheap enough, someone will pay. I think a lot of old rundown properties will be impossible to rent as the standards are so low.  There are however, lots of building projects I've seen with waterfront places - including some really nice recently constructed hotels (that was my reason for optimism).  In that respect, the South side is somewhat better/easier to get to what with the highway following the lake.  North Side I suspect Tihany or Fured are about the only places with growth. Major hotel renovations there.

Mrs Fluffy part owns a rundown house down on the South side and I actually feel it would be nicer to rent an apartment somewhere else.  I even think we should knock it down and rebuild it.  That said, it's in a desirable place and the beaches are packed out each year. 

I would caution anyone buying large properties with a view to renting out.   Better very high quality smaller multiple independent units with closer accessibility to the ports for the yachting crowds. That would extend the season a bit.

Croatia is OK (I've lived in Zagreb and travelled around) and it's now very easy to get to but the beaches are rocky and the season is short.  The sea can be rough too and it's more dangerous than the lake.  Some of the hotel complexes in Croatia rival the most expensive places I've ever been to (like the Maldives) and very unjustifiably so.  The scenery is very good though and there are some great off-roading (4WD) and hiking places there with plenty of wild country to explore.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I suppose if it's cheap enough, someone will pay. I think a lot of old rundown properties will be impossible to rent as the standards are so low.

Yes, in theory your first sentence is valid, but in reality your second sentence is a defining factor.

In other words, there is a minimum where the quality becomes so low, that no one will rent as there are really better options elsewhere (i.e. Croatia --- despite the rocky shore).

fluffy2560 wrote:

There are however, lots of building projects I've seen with waterfront places - including some really nice recently constructed hotels (that was my reason for optimism).

A hotel can only do so much. Tourism requires a complete regional development plan. The hotel may be great, but if the beach, restaurants, and other daily accommodations are crap, the tourists will not come. That is basically the problem in Hungary. The tourists have shifted from western tourists to eastern tourists (who expect less), but the quality is still declining to the point that even eastern tourists can find better options elsewhere. I have to say, from my experience, there is really a very, very short sited vision here in Hungary. Almost zero region development planning here (despite large grants form the EU, which amounts to money wasted).

klsallee wrote:

.........A hotel can only do so much. Tourism requires a complete regional development plan. The hotel may be great, but if the beach, restaurants, and other daily accommodations are crap,...... but the quality is still declining to the point that even eastern tourists can find better options elsewhere. I have to say, from my experience, there is really a very, very short sited vision here in Hungary. Almost zero region development planning here (despite large grants form the EU, which amounts to money wasted).

Strangely enough, one of the hotels that was being rebuilt on the South side has a sign up saying it was being fixed with EU money.  Large grants might explain it.  There's quite a lot of smaller "boutique" style hotels near Foldvar and into the suburbs of Siofok which seem to be open all year round.  There's a religious type hotel (complete with bell in a tower) also built with EU money.  I object to that for sure.

On the North side, in Foldvar, there's a substantial expansion of an existing hotel (Hotel Marina?). I think this is becoming like a very large all inclusive resort type hotel - spa/multiple themed restaurants etc.  There's no need for the tourist to leave the hotel!  The owner is Danubius Hotels so they must have deep pockets for that kind of investment, over and above any regional planning considerations.  Or maybe their thinking is "build it and they will come".

fluffy2560 wrote:

On the North side, in Foldvar

I do not know a village with that name on the North side of the Balaton.

There is Balatonföldvár, but that is on the south side of the lake.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

On the North side, in Foldvar

I do not know a village with that name on the North side of the Balaton.

There is Balatonföldvár, but that is on the south side of the lake.

Yes, my mistake, I meant Fured (as in Balatonfured - without the HU characters).   Brain and fingers not in sync.  But I've got a vague excuse. It's Friday.

There are two hotels I've seen being repaired/renovated. One is in Szarszo (something boutique hotel) and the other Fured (Marina Hotel?).

fluffy2560 wrote:

Yes, my mistake, I meant Fured (as in Balatonfured

Ah, no problem.

FWIIW: IMHO, Balatonfured has long ago sold out to canned tourism. No region development concept. Zero. For example, one must really raise an eyebrow at that Moroccan/Greek/Arabic (I have never figured it out myself what is suppose to be) development on the western edge of the city.....

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Yes, my mistake, I meant Fured (as in Balatonfured

Ah, no problem.

FWIIW: IMHO, Balatonfured has long ago sold out to canned tourism. No region development concept. Zero. For example, one must really raise an eyebrow at that Moroccan/Greek/Arabic (I have never figured it out myself what is suppose to be) development on the western edge of the city.....

Do you mean that ziggurat styled hotel - Hotel Margareta?  One of those "wellness" themed places. What the hell is "wellness" anyway?  Hunglish or Deutschlish to me.   

It's renovations at Hotel Füred. It wasn't Hotel Marina. If you look on Streetview, Hotel Fured has a sign up with an EU symbol on it. I expect the renovations are subsidised by EU cash. Same going in Sazarszo.

fluffy2560 wrote:

What the hell is "wellness" anyway?  Hunglish or Deutschlish to me.

It is Americanlish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halbert_L._Dunn

In its today, "alternative medicine" definition, "wellness" has a lot of truthiness about it as well (yeah, that is Americanlish too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness )

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

What the hell is "wellness" anyway?  Hunglish or Deutschlish to me.

It is Americanlish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halbert_L._Dunn

In its today, "alternative medicine" definition, "wellness" has a lot of truthiness about it as well (yeah, that is Americanlish too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness )

Strangely enough I just heard a Sociology radio programme about Wellness and it's origins. Appears to be from California. I always thought it was German.

See here:   Wellness (BBC radio 4 Thinking Allowed)

fluffy2560 wrote:

Appears to be from California.

Not just from California, but from the greater SF Bay area (specifically Mill Valley --- yes, I know the history). Because, of course, where else could it be from...... **

(**Note: I lived for years in Northern California, so what I say above is not a critique, just a realistic assessment of a place that I actually enjoyed except for all that d*** fog and rain....)