Feedback Requested: Racism and Ageism in Teaching in Hanoi

Getting a teaching job requires teaching qualifications and experience by all the reputable international schools.

Is this a direct copy of your post from Dave's Vietnam website?
forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=110513
{moderators,please delete this link if it is not appropriately coming from an alternate expat website}

11 replies there weren't enough?

And what is this 'racism' you speak of?
You are in Vietnam.
People have bars on their windows and lock their houses in the evening when they're home.
They don't even trust each other.
Then there's the northern people's distrust of the southerner people. And visa versa.

And what's this about 'being non-white'?
All kinds of people in Vietnam get discriminated against for all kinds of reasons.
And ageism. What is this all about?

Gravitas comment says it all.
'qualifications and experience'.
Also I might add a good personality and attitude goes a long way here.

You have a very sad attitude, saying that every hurdle in your way is due to the fault of others, who will discriminate against you for any number of reasons.

Gravitas wrote:

You have a very sad attitude, saying that every hurdle in your way is due to the fault of others, who will discriminate against you for any number of reasons.

Hi @gravitas,

Thanks for the feedback.  I think you might have misinterpreted the intent.  I am not blaming anyone, as I have not moved to Vietnam yet, so I have not experienced the discrimination above.  However, there are some communities that are providing me forewarning and I am I trying to get a gauge if people have legitimate concerns or if they are overblown. I think it is good practice to do proper due diligence, before making a major move.

jimbream wrote:

Is this a direct copy of your post from Dave's Vietnam website?
[link moderated]
{moderators,please delete this link if it is not appropriately coming from an alternate expat website}

11 replies there weren't enough?

And what is this 'racism' you speak of?
You are in Vietnam.
People have bars on their windows and lock their houses in the evening when they're home.
They don't even trust each other.
Then there's the northern people's distrust of the southerner people. And visa versa.

And what's this about 'being non-white'?
All kinds of people in Vietnam get discriminated against for all kinds of reasons.
And ageism. What is this all about?

Gravitas comment says it all.
'qualifications and experience'.
Also I might add a good personality and attitude goes a long way here.

Hi @jimbream, you are correct, it is the same.  I trying to make sure I get a good sample size.  Different communities have different feedback, so I am looking to get a good cross section for clarity.  Wisdom of crowds and such. 

As an example, Dave's ESL cafe provides many data/anecdotal points specifically suggesting that White and Young get the best jobs and pay. 

Contrast that opinion with the opinion you and @gravitas just provided and you can see why multiple perspectives are worth collecting.

It will be about your own attitude and the way you approach situations that will dictate the outcome. However, you seem to lack practicality in what you hope to achieve. Who knows the answer - if you are a nice guy, you are more likely to receive a positive response.

You can do some research to find out how far your money will go, but whether you will find work as an English language teacher - you will have to try and see - like others have before you. Its all about the individual and their chemistry. Good teachers are always employable.

But what you must remember is that first language English speakers "read between the lines" as well as what you write and say. My analysis is that pedanticism is more of a problem, because flexibility and "go-with-the-flow" is a very important "qualification" to adapt and integrate in any society.

Claiming racism and ageism are the reasons is rather a limted viewpoint. I cant help thinking that if a person has those views they will be projected to the environment.

You should have no problem living off your savings of $1500 per month. This is more than most full-time teachers earn here.

As for getting a teaching position, you shouldn't have too much trouble. Some schools won't hire you because you're Asian, but you'll find one that will. Also, getting yourself some sort of TEFL certification will go a long way. I don't think your age will be much of a problem either, plenty of older teachers here. Keep in mind, most of the people you're competing against couldn't land a job at McDonald's in their home country.

You might also want to connect with some of the Filipino expats who are members here. They should be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck!

Racism, ageism, sexism and most of the other ism's are alive and well in Vietnam; especially in Hanoi., despite what some of the neo-Pollyannas are saying

You can expect a lower salary as well,  despite your noteworthy and highly commendable achievents. That would be due to the opportunism that runs rampant and unchecked.

Yes, you might miss some work opportunities as you are not white..
One time I had to cancel my class and I tried to offer my mate to work on my behalf, but it was no go as he was black irish...

Well...I've lived in HCMC, DaNang and Hanoi over the previous dozen years.  Three years ago when I was last in HCMC, they were hiring from the PI and often.  As to your age...I'm 'USA and White' and pushing 66 now and age has nothing to do with teaching English.  Here in DaNang and as recently as a month ago in Quang Ngai they are hiring from the PI. Some 5 years back there was a female from the PI teaching English classes at FPT University in District 12 in HCMC...she was good, but not much on admin...
As to your background...depends on the school.  As to your 'teaching quals'...good that you are doing that. They recently changed the rules...and I believe that there is something there about not only the 'qualifications', but 'experience' as well.   I was an instructor for near 20 yrs, had my own business and three degrees and Cisco Networking from way back...The Business Management seemed to be the best advantage for me...teaching TOEIC and Bus. Mgmt for the last 11 years.  With your business background...I'd be looking for a business to teach...and let them do the paperwork for the work permit, visa and travel arrangements...as to the 'racism'...you've been around the world already...what is 'racism' today?  Your attitude, P's and Q's and not so bad...
As to your salary or what you might make...that also depends upon the school you teach.  I quit teaching ESL's almost 6 years ago...University and business locations...is the way to go.  I teach legally (from the Ministry of Education) out of my residence and have 10 classes a week now. 
You say you have funds available...I would recommend that you go to HCMC first get settled into a local hotel...walk around and locate a few teachers and find your own niche to fit into.  There are several places along the coast up to DaNang that I would also recommend you visit to see what is available.  Depending on the school/s you could make a good grand or more a month teaching.  Ethics is a real struggle...little to none...get legal and make sure you have a proper visa, contract and work permit to teach...many schools simply pay off the local police to allow teachers with no proper papers to teach...
The worst part is going to be your Visa to enter the country...and then exit and re-enter...good luck to you. 
You can contact me via my website which has my e-mail if you like...horizonforseasia.org

Vietnamese don't care where you come from or what race you are, and your income without working is already  more than ten times the average wage in Vietnam.  By Vietnamese standards, you are a rich man, which is all that matters to them.  Age is not a problem in Vietnam, because Vietnamese respect their elders.

ralphnhatrang wrote:

Vietnamese don't care where you come from or what race you are, and your income without working is already  more than ten times the average wage in Vietnam.  By Vietnamese standards, you are a rich man, which is all that matters to them.  Age is not a problem in Vietnam, because Vietnamese respect their elders.

Hi ralphnhatrang.
Do you you really know what you typed in this post?You have lived in VN many years I presume.

Vietnamese people care VERY MUCH  where 'you' come from. It's a key part of Vietnamese society. Here and O/S.

Vietnamese also care about 'your' race?.  This is a a very old country with many different 'races' involved.Race matters.

Age is a problem; for the simple fact that this year is 2015 not 1915.Majority of the population is under 35.

Oh,I digress from the OP . Just as yourself.
Everything on TV and social media isn't really fact.
The OP needs to get on a plane,go to VN and stop his 'wanna' 'gonna' lifestyle.

Jim Bream, I believe your quotes should have been around the word "race". Yes, Vietnam has many people of many 'races'. And indeed most vietnamese have a Chinese, Cham, or Khmer ancestor somewhere in their family tree. But it's not something they brag about, 'diversity' in the current American sense not being a stated goal of the government. Vietnamese care very much about culture, and that has been a function of government policy going back at least to Minh Mang's time. They very much want minorities to voluntarily adopt the Vietnamese language, culture, style of everyday dress, and even religion (Buddhism of the Northern variety), allowing for the occasional holiday or event related to people's of ethnic minorities.

The very best thing for the minorities (outside recognized tribal areas) is to look, smell, and feel Vietnamese. And in truth, it works. And it will continue to work as long as Vietnam continues economic policies that hold out the promise of economic advancement for the masses. The promise of of new motorbike, a job paying decent wages, life in the city, or a small town with city advantages, and a school to send their kids to that will open up opportunities for them, will accomplish far more than any Imperial decrees ever did.

Jimbream,
Yes, I am aware of what I wrote. I have lived here for 13 years so far, and have been coming to Vietnam since 1968. I learnt to speak, read and write Vietnamese 45 years ago, I have a Vietnamese wife, and daughter born in Vietnam.

I receive Employment adverts from a few Teacher Employment websites everyday, and lately the employers " dream wish list " is being narrowed, many schools are asking for Female only teachers, ( and if you know any about VN culture, females should really be the only ones trying to teach kids under 6 yrs old ), many ads now have age limits, 25-- 35 yrs now, ( which is a huge loss for the students, what real life experience does a 25 --30 yr old have???? ), some are even asking for Filipino's now, ( save money at the students expense ). My small city has been swamped with English Centres this year, from 3 large Centres last year, ( but only one had NES's ), to now 6 large Centres, ( AMA has even eventually found it's way here, but maybe too late for a piece of the action ), the NES population has exploded from about 4 -- 5 last year, to around 10- 11, plus about 6 Filipino's this year.  The strange thing is that I've never seen any of them when I've been out and about???? I'd like to run a poll to see which Centre will fold first.
  BTW Ralph thanks for that laugh , funniest thing I've heard all day. especially that bit about respecting their elders , Hahaha, you should get out more, or perhaps it's better that you didn't.

There seems to be a lot of 'snipinh' on this forum.  That is a shame, as from what I see, people are just trying to
seek information and the members in the main are trying to help - pity e cant keep it that way! 
I would have thought there was enough 'crap ' in the world without adding to it.

ralphnhatrang wrote:

Age is not a problem in Vietnam, because Vietnamese respect their elders.

That's not entirely true, in my opinion.  Yes, the average Vietnamese citizen respects their immediate elders, but as soon as they hit the door and hop on the motorbike respect toward anyone/anything is gone, baby, gone...

With The US passport and business exp ,I'm sure You will live very well in either city with a 1000 dollars/ month.You can even afford a gf.
I'm a vietnamse-American, 72, retiring in Hanoi.My expense is only 800dollars/ month with a very nice gf.
You can do it! No need to worry too much!