ARMS Ltd faces class action suit

Go for it guys - good luck am behind you all the way

armsclassaction@gmail.com   this is where they can be contacted
or facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/371466666251933/

good luck to em

"But although such citizens must declare they reside here when applying for a local ID card, ARMS does not recognise this and insists on further proof."

they ask to see the residency certificate that all non-Maltese EU citizens residing in Malta must have, which seems fair enough to me

toonarmy9752 wrote:

Go for it guys - good luck am behind you all the way

armsclassaction@gmail.com   this is where they can be contacted
or facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/371466666251933/

good luck to em

I just joined the group to lend support, thanks.

from the times article

"Customers must put together multiple documents, from payslips to social security numbers, marriage certificates to proof of address, and present them to the Department for Citizenship and Expatriate Affairs in Valletta. In turn, the department issues them a registration certificate which clients then give to ARMS as proof of residency."

thats the residency certificate which you have to apply for by law.

I've pointed out to the group that there are a number of flaws in their class action

1. the price discrimination is based on residency not citizenship, which is allowed under EU law (but has to be justified)
2. about the legal requirement to get a residency certificate

their response ? to ban me from the group :-)

They have a case they could win, but I fear they are fighting the wrong battles

dont fear george.....

A lot of renters don't apply for residency for the same reason that the landlords don't declare the rent - The taxman.

Terry

tearnet wrote:

A lot of renters don't apply for residency for the same reason that the landlords don't declare the rent - The taxman.

Terry

yep, they want their cake and eat it

residency isn't a buffet, you can't pick and choose  - you are either resident or you aren't, there is no such thing as temporary resident, thats a tourist.

If you want to live and work here, you must expect to have to abide by the rules, and one of the rules, which is an EU rule, is that Malta can insist that all foreigners living here have to get a residency certificate. I think its perfectly reasonable that ARMS ask to see this - this group thinks it isn't.

can you explain the the number of maltese who are affected by the domestic rating then

and i dont mean those with secondary homes

"can you explain the the number of maltese who are affected by the domestic rating" I guess its mainly those who are renting, but have a landlord who doesn't want to declare tenants.

"If you want to live and work here, you must expect to have to abide by the rules, and one of the rules, which is an EU rule, is that Malta can insist that all foreigners living here have to get a residency certificate."

thats too open GnG...as not everyone who works has a residence certificate or needs one to get the correct rates  - in fact many people dont have it and get the correct rates on the back of providing SSC and tax proof...i.e payslip no res cert at all....and further if you raise your voice high enough and stand your ground you can get it - via a discretionary judgement by the ARMs management team - so its not that clear cut at all.

"as not everyone who works has a residence certificate " agree, but they are supposed to have one if they are a non-Maltese citizen :-)

The risk is that ARMS use no discretion at all in the future, and just say the residency certificate is the only thing they will accept.

maybe - who knows?

yep, its all speculation, but things will change for sure, if only because of the halting in the issuance of ID cards to foreigners

i seem to recall an article recently and it was basically saying that malta is the only country to issue id cards that restrict the card issued to non indiginous nationals being used for travel. I think thats what it said!!i might be wrong

no, thats standard

eg Finland
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/New+id … 5266558130

"Foreign citizens living in Finland can also get an identity card, which is brown in hue. It is not valid as a travel document, however."

estonia  - Since 3 September 2007, newly issued ID cards to EU/EEA citizens allow them traveling inside the Schengen area.

1:1

its not easy finding out country by country which do and which dont

Italy is a no

Identity Card (Carta d'identità) for Foreign citizens

This is a document that proves your identity. It is issued to all citizens over 15 years of age either officialy resident or currently living in the Municipality of Milan (Comune di Milano). It is valid for ten years. A foreigner (whether EU or non-EU) requesting this document must present the Permit to Stay or a valid Residence Card (Carta di Soggiorno) and another form of ID, (i.e. passport) in addition to the documentation normally required of Italian citizens.

The Identity Card for a foreigner is not valid to travel outside of Italy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_i … pean_Union

" Some EU member states also issue national identity cards to residents who are non-EU citizens - these cards are only valid as an identity document within the issuing country and are not valid as a travel document for the rest of the EU, EEA and Switzerland."

Estonia
http://www.politsei.ee/en/teenused/isik … okumendid/

"An identification document or ID-card is a mandatory identity document of the Estonian citizens and aliens staying/residing permanently in Estonia. In addition to regular identification of a person, an ID-card can also be used for establishing one's person in electronic environment and for giving one's digital signature. Within the European Union, an ID-card can be used by the Estonian citizens also as a travel document."

no mention of ID card issued to foreigners, so not proof either way

You don't need any travel document within the Schengen area!

If you check in at a boarding card machine in Frankfurt you don't even have to show your ID and there are no border controls anyway.

I would not recommend trying to enter the UK (non Schengen) with an ID card from Austria,Estonia or Malta (countries that issue ID cards to foreigners). Germany doesn't and the UK does not even have ID cards for their own citizens.

These cards are just 'ID' cards like any other official card with a photo on it.

As to the ARMS 'problem' if I were in the Government (and ARMS is a government entity) I would just scrap all ID cards immediatly and declare them invalid and issue Residence Certificates with a photo. EU problem solved -)))

Cheers
Ricky

ricky wrote:

You don't need any travel document within the Schengen area!

you do if you are flying :-)

edit you need some sort of photo ID don't you ? the airlines need to make sure you are who you claim to be

maybe thats what will happen ricky we will all just have to wait and see

ricky wrote:

As to the ARMS 'problem' if I were in the Government (and ARMS is a government entity) I would just scrap all ID cards immediatly and declare them invalid and issue Residence Certificates with a photo. EU problem solved -)))

essentially thats what is happening, but not immediately. I suspect this is one reason why foreigners are getting them first.

Hi George,

when you check in at a Lufthansa boarding card machine for a flight to Malta you have the option of putting your passport on the screen or typing in your booking number or just typing in your name! You do not have to show your passport. You can believe me -)))

And when you go to check in your luggage at the counter they don't ask for an ID or passport! With handluggage you just walk on the plane with your boarding card anyway. And when you arrive in Malta there is no passport check either.

Cheers
Ricky

wow !

I thought airlines had to ID check all passengers, even for domestic flights - clearly not

must admit having gone to a schengen country area last year we were never asked for any id..passport id card or my labour club card ..i was very surprised and i didnt know until we got back WHY!

JUST RECEIVED THIS :


Re: Refund of deposits for internet / telephony service provision. / ARMS Class Action. / EUCAD.

Dear Non-Maltese EU / EFTA / Swiss Citizens,



1) In March, 2012, ‘...A spokesperson for the Malta Competition and Consumer Affairs Authority said the authority is aware of measures imposed on EU nationals living in Malta including the requirement to pay deposits for the provision of telephony and internet services but said that the measures are "not discriminatory."

The spokesperson said "service providers impose deposit payments on foreign residents as a safeguard in case the foreign customers leave the island without paying for any pending bills.",,,,,,,,,,,' (1) / See Maltatoday below.   

However, the attached document - featuring correspondence of the 12th July, 2012, from the European Commission discloses that the Malta Communications Authority reported as follows: ‘Go plc do not request deposits from EU nationals and EEA citizens for the provision of their services…………. Melita plc requests deposits for its services only from EU nationals who are neither in possession of a Maltese identity card nor a residence card……..The deposit is refunded to the client once the client obtains an ‘A' identity card or a residence permit……..'



The available information regarding the position of Vodafone is summarized as follows:



https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=70883



Given the possibility that you may have unnecessarily paid a deposit for telephony and/or internet service provision - whether as a tenant or an owner-occupier - I recommend you e-mail your telephony and/or internet service provider to claim an immediate refund of same.



Should you experience any difficulties in this regard, please forward any correspondence with your telephony and/or internet service provider to European Commission contact person, Ms. Sarah Lynch, Unit E1 - Business to consumer services, Directorate General Internal Market and Services at:



Sarah.LYNCH@ec.europa.eu



If you do so, please carbon copy me at: jonesdillon@onvol.net

.

2)  The European Commission launches infringement procedures against Malta in the matter of its discriminatory two-tier water and electricity consumption tariff scheme.



The Commission said:



To benefit from reduced water and electricity tariffs, EU citizens residing in Malta need to submit specific residence documents – other means for proving their residence are not accepted by the MT authorities. By contrast, Maltese citizens need only to submit a copy of their identity card (and no proof of residence).


This discriminatory treatment is not in line with EU law and creates an unacceptable obstacle to exercising the right to free movement and residence. We thus take action to ensure that EU citizens are able to fully enjoy their rights.


Please consult the Commission decision at the following Commission website:

http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/eulaw/decisi … 927.htm#mt


Whereas the European Commission is empowered to compel an errant Member State to conform to EU law, the onus is on the aggrieved parties to seek means of redress at national level.



Where you have suffered damage or loss, for example, only the national courts can award you reparation from the Member State concerned.



Furthermore, since there is a time-limit on national means of redress, unless you avail of them in time, you may lose your rights at national level.




The decision by the European Commission to commence legal proceedings against the Maltese authorities greatly enhances the prospects of success in a Class Action against ARMS Ltd. 

The major advantage of a Class Action is that it aggregates a large number of individualized claims into one single representational lawsuit to secure the recovery of overcharged amounts, while enabling the claimants to split the costs.

Had my household water and electricity bills shown zero no. of residents / domestic consumer scheme, the overcharge on my bills would have amounted to One thousand five hundred Euro since the discriminatory two-tier water and electricity consumption tariff scheme was introduced in October 2008.



To recap, this matter concerns:



Zero no. of residents / ‘Domestic' household water and electricity consumption tariffs - 56% and 30% more expensive, respectively than those payable by ‘residential' energy consumers.



Zero no. of residents / ‘Domestic' household water and electricity consumers denied A) Eco-reductions and B) One-off energy allowance cheques.



I can confirm that James Parsons, the co-ordinator of the Class Action against ARMS Ltd, has retained a lawyer for this purpose and that the deadline for registering your interest in benefiting from this initiative is Thursday, 22th November, 2012.



The contact e-mail address is: armsclassaction@gmail.com



Facebook: Class Action against ARMS Ltd: https://www.facebook.com/groups/371466666251933/



If you're not in, you can't win.

3) EUCAD (European Union Citizens Against Discrimination) has been established - eucad.malta@gmail.com
In this regard, please see: Open letter sent to all Maltese MPs from EUCAD:
http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/ … 297304117/
In addition: Facebook: E.U.C.A.D European Union Citizens Against Discrimination: https://www.facebook.com/groups/eucad/
4)  The Times of Malta, Thursday, November 15, 2012:  ARMS Ltd faces class action suit - EU citizens' anger over paying more for utilities

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … ens.445385

In addition, please find attached a (Microsoft Office Word 2003) document, which contains 748 Non-Maltese EU MEPs' e-mail addresses  listed by country.   











Reference:

(1) Maltatoday, Friday, 9th March, 2012: Consumer authority - foreigners not being discriminated against


http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/newsdet … d-20120309




I look forward to hearing from you.



Yours faithfully,



Oisin Jones-Dillon


EU nationals: Equal citizens, equal rights, equal treatment. 



jonesdillon@onvol.net


Tel: 21-577813

Mobile: 79-324845



Terry

"If you're not in, you can't win." - actually thats not true - the judgement in a class action is normally applied to all similar cases

And this :





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:07:16 +0100
Subject: Landlord issue and Lawyer
From: armsclassaction@gmail.com
To:


OK guys we have had some very disappointing news in that those people who have landlords who bill them directly or who give them the ARMs Ltd utility bill to settle are affected by the outcome of our meeting with the lawyer.

In simple terms you will not be eligible to join the law suit as in these circumstances you do not have a contract with ARMs Ltd. The tenants only contract in terms of billing is with the landlord and he will undoubtedly have covered himself contractually with a simple “the tenant is responsible for paying all utility bills as presented by the landlord” or words to that effect...it may be advisable to check your rental contract.

There are a number of things to consider here – although to be honest there is no easy answer to this distasteful issue – barring moving to another let whose landlord will allow you to be the account holder or to be named as registered consumers on his account for that property. Bear in mind that even if the landlord will allow you to change the account holder into your name and that you can currently fulfil other ARMs imposed conditions, this will cost you 466 Euros as well...The rub of course comes when you leave as the landlord will have to pay the same to revert it back to his name.

Consider these

1 do you have a reasonable landlord

2 does he consider you a good tenant

3 how much would he rather keep you as a tenant long term

4 will he be willing to negotiate

Believe me its worth approaching them with this problem as most landlords want EU citizens as tenants - the one thing that is quite clear here in Malta and Gozo is that “money talks” For greedy landlords (and they all are) are aware of this and it seems they want reliable foreigners (mostly British or other desirable EU nationals who are socially responsible citizens and pay in cash, on time, and in full, as opposed to having Maltese tenants or others (according, to some Maltese landlords that I know) who do not normally observe nor subscribe too such account settlement niceties - a threat to leave their property (which YOU as tenants obviously do not want to do) may have the desired effect!!!!! its not guaranteed for sure but its worth a try.

One further point is that if he's not such a nice landlord maybe explain to him that you will only pay the same as a local national does and leave the balance in dispute with ARMs – DO NOT THOUGH REFUSE TO PAY – pay what you think you should pay use the ARMs online bill calculator to work it out. - it may not go down well but it will make him think and at this stage be sure to mention that the word is out about this and it will not last much longer...it may give you time to organise a move elsewhere and at worst it will give you the real feel for your landlord.

It is highly likely that most landlords who do not wish to change the bills in any way do so - usually for one, if not all three of the following

1 they have been caught out by tenants leaving a big bill without paying

2 they are not declaring their rental income for tax and putting you on the bill exposes them to the tax man – they always want untraceable cash - remember they have a responsibility to be as tax compliant as you do.

3 the property may not be licensed as a long term let or even a short term let or not even licensed at all

In this situation it would seem that you have no protection from this racket...either as a consumer nor as a tenant...and the only positive thing we can do is warn everyone about what is going on here and hope that we can stop the innocent and unwary from falling into this trap again......if just one person (hopefully more) is prevented from falling into this trap – it will have been worth it.

Thanks to all for your support so far and I sincerely hope that we can continue to support each other. PLEASE BELIEVE ME WE ARE AS GUTTED ABOUT THIS AS YOU ARE

Regards David and Patricia for an on behalf of Arms Class Action and E.U.C.A.D


Terry

"that those people who have landlords who bill them directly or who give them the ARMs Ltd utility bill to settle are affected by the outcome of our meeting with the lawyer. In simple terms you will not be eligible to join the law suit as in these circumstances you do not have a contract with ARMs Ltd."

as expected

The only people who can take part in a class action like this are those with a direct contract with ARMS
1. renters with the electricity bill in their name
2. property owners

In either case, if you have a residency certificate, there shouldn't be any problem getting the cheaper rates

The main thing now will be the EU deciding whether differential pricing for residents v non-residents is legal (its allowed under EU law, but has to be justified)

How would you be affected if you have been trying to get ARMS to register you at the address for a year and they always want another piece of paperwork.  I was recently told that any card ending in A cannot be afforded the discount.  I havenŽt even got as far as changing the name on the contract... still trying to get registered as occupiers.

When I want to the ID office the have my card ŽchangedŽfrom A status so I could fulful another of ARMS requests, the ID office told me that is was not possible and that ARMS have told many many people the same misinformation.  It was not necessary.

do you have a residency certificate ?