Residency or Citizenship?

Thanks for your quick reply tomasmmm. It is my understanding that for emergencies within Spain the generally quite large "Seguro Social" hospitals will provide emergency life threatening treatment to non-citizens. Wonder if presenting the Residency Card would be enough as I have no idea if those hospitals have billing procedures.
Are you saying that with the Spanish passport other EU countries do not require that a "Seguro Social" card be presented?

I am pretty sure you cannot have dual nationality so, at least on paper, you may need to denounce your USA nationality of you want to take up Spanish nationality.

There are a few excepts (one is nationals of former Spanish colonies) so I suggest you check that out before jumping in the deep end

Health cover:   If you were legally resident in Spain on 24th April 2012, then you are eligible for free health cover in Spain. I have an American friend who has that.

I have just, yet again, searched re Spain and dual nationalty.  I did not find anything which suports your post Tomas.

I would really apprecaite it if you would point me to a web page which confirms what you said. 

Thanks   John

I am a US national married to a Spanish woman. I have the Spanish national care plan. I also have a European health care card as does the rest of my family. As far as travelling in Europe, If your travel originated in Spain to another Schengen zone country (which includes all of the EU), you could, until recently, enter without going through passport control only carrying your Spanish ID, which I have rarely been asked for.  There have been some recent changes (see Schengen changes . As for reasons for obtaining citizenship, most, if not all government jobs require Spanish or EU citizenship, I believe. I believe that Spain functions like other countries in attending to people in life-threatening situations. Obviously, they probably try to collect for services, but not sure what they can do if a patient leaves the hospital.

As for dual nationality, until recently, I had always heard that the US would only accept dual national status of Israelis, and if the Government found that a US citizen became a citizen of another country of their own volition (that the citizenship was not offeted as a gift), that the person's US citizenship would be cancelled. More recently, I have read that a person can be a dual national, that he only loses US citizenship by submitting documentation to lose citizenship.

One reason that I don't become a Spanish citizen is the fear that Trump, or some other American president, might decide that all the American expats that are no longer citizens no longer have the right to any US benefits, such as Medicare or Social Security. That would affect me in a big way.

Just to clarify.

My understanding is that although some countries do not have any concerns about their nationals having dual, triple etc. nationality there are some countries which will not permit that.
I had UK nationality; I now have Irish UK nationality.  Neither country objects to that situation. 

However, my wife is Filipina and I thus have enquired what would happen in her case if she applied for Spanish nationality. I know that citizens of former colonies of Spain can apply for Spanish nationality without waiting 10 years of residency,  and are permitted by Spain to have dual nationality

I also know that a UK citizen, under Spanish law,  must renounce that if they take Spanish nationality. That is, whilst UK does not object Spain will not allow it.

I know from a German friend who has been married to a Spaniard for many years that she was able, many years ago, to have German and Spanish nationality, but that law later changed.

I also believe that those with Spanish parents, maybe grandparents, may be able to have dual nationality recognised by Spain, but without researching that I cannot quote the exact circumstances required for that.

PS        Of course it is possible, whilst probably illegal, to lie and say that one has renounced their former nationality in order to obtain Spanish nationality when in fcat they have not done so.  I dare say many may have done that, but not a course I would recommend

no, that is not true, USA has an agreement with most EU countries allowing dual citizenship. I am the best example of it.

Tomas.  Am I correct in my understanding that you are now saying there is no legal way to have USA and Spanish nationality. i.e. no agreement ?     Just that you did not tell the truth (either in your post here or to the authorities).

If I have misunderstood please tell me and point me to the web info.     I work at a comisaria here in Spain and I am frequently required to explain the law as it really is.

Johncar wrote:

Health cover:   If you were legally resident in Spain on 24th April 2012, then you are eligible for free health cover in Spain. I have an American friend who has that.

When I renewed my residency permit in 2015, I had to present a Spanish health insurance policy from a private company as part of the required documentation. Based on my reading of the requirements to obtain the "Tarjeta Sanitaria Individual" (which entitles one to free health care), you must first obtain approval from the INSS (Instituto Nacional de la Seguridad Social). It is my understanding that to be recognized by the INSS, one must have previously paid into the program.  I have never drawn a salary in Spain, so therefor never had deductions paid into the SS.
I would be interested to know how your friend obtained approval from the INSS to present to obtain the Tarjeta.

In my case, I was a Ramon y Cajal fellow for ,3.5 years do that may be part of the reason I have a card. I am also married to a Spanish citizen.

Traveler

My friend from USA who has cover has never worked nor paid into the system in Spain 
As you will see from the below web page, that is not a requirement.

This an extract from:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-spain

If you registered as a resident in Spain before 24 April 2012, have an annual income of less than €100,000 and are not covered for healthcare though any other means, speak to your local INSS office to register for healthcare in Spain as a resident.

Johncar wrote:

Traveler

My friend from USA who has cover has never worked nor paid into the system in Spain 
As you will see from the below web page, that is not a requirement.

This an extract from:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-spain

If you registered as a resident in Spain before 24 April 2012, have an annual income of less than €100,000 and are not covered for healthcare though any other means, speak to your local INSS office to register for healthcare in Spain as a resident.

johncar : The link you supplied is for people of the United Kingdom which is still a member of the EU, and have healthcare supplied by their government. I don't see how USA citizens residents in Spain can obtain free coverage.
I will go by the local office of the Seguro Social here in Asturias to ask.

Traveler:   Yes it is a link for UK

BUT IF IT DID NOT APPLY UNIVERSALLY I WOULD HAVE SAID SO.

If you registered as a resident in Spain before 24 April 2012, have an annual income of less than €100,000 and are not covered for healthcare though any other means, speak to your local INSS office to register for healthcare in Spain as a resident.

As you will see, there is no requirement to be anything other what it clearly says.

It does not mention any nationalities: It applies to ALL who are included in the descripition.

  As I said,   a USA friend registered and now gets free cover,  i.e nothing whatsoever to do with being an EU citizen. Thus Brexit wil not affect it either,  unless some totally exceptional changes are made to the existing rules to exclude just UK citizens.


(Please  excuse the bold fonts,  but I am hoping this time to make it totally clear to all !  )

Re: healthcare- look into the convenio especial.  It's the Spanish national health plan, but you pay for it separately.  Downsides to joining are that your coverage is only good within Spain, but at least it's a way for US citizens to join the national plan (and at very, very good prices, too.)

Re: US/Spain dual citizenship.  Yes, you can get both.  Spain asks that you swear allegiance to Spain and denounce any other nationalities you might have, but they don't do anything to check and see if you've actually done so.

The US Supreme Court has held that unless you affirmatively go to the US government and confirm that you want to give up your US citizenship, then merely gaining Spanish citizenship doesn't mean you lose the US citizenship.  It's a matter of a Constitutional judgement, so it's not even subject to change by Trump, or the next President, or anything.

For a US government reference, see https://travel.state.gov/content/travel … ality.html

Papa

Convenio Especial:     I believe that is only applicable in certain Regions

However, the regulation which allows free medical cover to those who were legal residents in Spain on 24th April 2012, and who fit the requirements, as posted previously, are entitled to FREE COVER. Regardless of nationality.

Re: US/Spain dual citizenship.  Yes, you can get both.  Spain asks that you swear allegiance to Spain and denounce any other nationalities you might have, but they don't do anything to check and see if you've actually done so.


If one swears allegiance to Spain then they cannot also hold allegiance to another country. For one to say they have denounced their former national but not to have done so is a lie.  In some jurisdictions it might also amount to perjury which is a criminal offence.

The US Supreme Court has held that unless you affirmatively go to the US government and confirm that you want to give up your US citizenship, then merely gaining Spanish citizenship doesn't mean you lose the US citizenship.  It's a matter of a Constitutional judgement, so it's not even subject to change by Trump, or the next President, or anything.

I think we all knew that as it is probably the same in every country.

Yes, John, everyone knows your views about the morality of the subject.  Thank you for yet again chiming in.

Have you ever heard of anyone ever getting in trouble with the Spanish government for this? 

On the flip side, surely you know that there are thousands of people holding dual citizenships who have been in this exact situation?

Papa

If one knows the law and chooses to disregard it that is entirely a matter for that person,  however, if someone could have put them straight and did not do it, saying afterward,    “ I could have told you that` is pretty useless.

I have known many people who have been prosecuted who said previously that they would not get caught !    In fact the prisons are full of them, but one might think they are not the sharpest knives in the box !

I have dual nationality,  UK and  Irish, but that did not require fraud, as UK and Ireland permit it.