News about the economy

It's a downward spiral, tragically.

My husband and I just moved here. I hope we're not going to be left with only a lot of old retired people like us. 😦

Nanraughley wrote:

My husband and I just moved here. I hope we're not going to be left with only a lot of old retired people like us. 😦

Don't worry, after all that dancing and rum, they will make new Puerto Ricans.

Congratulations seem to be in order, hope you will grace us with a new thread where you tell us all about your experience and the place!!!!!

Well it looks like the governor is still pushing forward with the Plebiscite on June 11 even without the endorsement of the US justice department and with the Independent parties and the Colonial parties (PPD) boycotting of the vote.

Looks like for the most part only those wanting to make Puerto Rico a state will be voting. The question is if the US Justice department will recognize the vote and if Congress will acknowledge it. Even if both did, it is unclear if congress will move a finger or not.

At the moment, the bill for the Plebiscite is around 7.8 million for all the preparations and the printing of 2.5 million ballots. It will be interesting to see how many people participate, but either way, if only the ones that want PR to be a state show up to vote, then the results are known already since there will be little opposition, mostly stragglers that refuse to not vote against it and not obeying the boycott.

Apparently the Election Board has yet to receive all the money from the PR government. Had the Federal Justice department endorsed it, the Federal government would have released 2.5 million but they have not.

You may find this article interesting (English): http://www.elnuevodia.com/english/engli … e-2325784/

The word from some of the members of congress that are of Puerto Rican desecnt is that congress will not accept a Latin American country as a state now or ever. The current administration in the US does not seem to have any interest in PR either. We shall see what happens or not happen.

Just passing news to those Expats affected and that may not be tuned in.

***

Inappropriate post, about his crimes / hero or not. If your post was hidden then you know I refer to yours. Each has received PM with the issue that caused the bidding of the post. Likely it will be deleted by the moderator, I have no control of that.

ReyP wrote:

At the moment, the bill for the Plebiscite is around 7.8 million for all the preparations and the printing of 2.5 million ballots. It will be interesting to see how many people participate, but either way, if only the ones that want PR to be a state show up to vote, then the results are known already since there will be little opposition, mostly stragglers that refuse to not vote against it and not obeying the boycott.

Apparently the Election Board has yet to receive all the money from the PR government. Had the Federal Justice department endorsed it, the Federal government would have released 2.5 million but they have not.

Typically in a bankruptcy the debtor seeks and receives authorization from the bankruptcy court to continue payment of administrative expenses necessary to operate essential functions of the government in this case.  I would have trouble understanding why payment of USD 2.5 M for a completely meaningless election would be authorized by the bankruptcy judge.

SawMan wrote:

ReyP wrote:

At the moment, the bill for the Plebiscite is around 7.8 million for all the preparations and the printing of 2.5 million ballots. It will be interesting to see how many people participate, but either way, if only the ones that want PR to be a state show up to vote, then the results are known already since there will be little opposition, mostly stragglers that refuse to not vote against it and not obeying the boycott.

Apparently the Election Board has yet to receive all the money from the PR government. Had the Federal Justice department endorsed it, the Federal government would have released 2.5 million but they have not.

Typically in a bankruptcy the debtor seeks and receives authorization from the bankruptcy court to continue payment of administrative expenses necessary to operate essential functions of the government in this case.  I would have trouble understanding why payment of USD 2.5 M for a completely meaningless election would be authorized by the bankruptcy judge.

I also wonder why the Federal Control Board, and all the litigant bond holders have not raised an issue with the judge about the government expenses. It is curious that it has not been raised in court.

Excellent point, SawMan. Perhaps the bankruptcy judge will let this one slide so as to try and avoid to the greatest extent possible the perception of interfering in local politics, and thereby agitating the anti-statehood crowd even more so.

Also, practically, the best way for this expenditure to get the attention of the bankruptcy judge is if a creditor raises it as an issue. I don't think that has been done by any of the creditors.

I don't know what about my post was a problem. I said it before here without issue. And it is a fact, he himself admits it. And my post had nothing to do with the two above mine under review.

lgustaf wrote:

I don't know what about my post was a problem. I said it before here without issue. And it is a fact, he himself admits it.

It is a controversial subject that can be inflamed, did you check the PM I send?

It's a fact, Rey. Not an opinion. And it bears on the question of the probability of statehood, which was the subject at hand.

I said it before and it caused no uproar. I think you're trying to find issues where there are none.

If they agree with you they will unhide it.

Well, if factual information is not allowed on this site when it pertains to political issues, like PR becoming a state, and its relationship to the economy of PR, then this whole thread should be deleted.

The thread is about news articles about the economy, items like spending money in a plebiscite which affects the economy in a major way does.

Talking about Trump trying to take advantage of the Perla or some other sector of the population is a direct accusation specially when one puts down a motive for his actions with no proof of his guild or him himself stating a motive.

The same with the issue about the Puerto Rican Parade in NY. Stating that is happening and that some sponsors have decided not to participate is fine. Calling him a murderer is a completely different issue. A murderer to some and a hero to others. The issue is all over PR news with each of those points of views represented.

This is not about which is right, this is about providing people news about the economy. Not about accusations no matter how sure we are in our hearts that they are guilty of x or y.

Research it yourself, Rey. It's not speculation. Mr. T has publically stated he is at odds with PR because he couldn't get his way, and as far as he's concerend PR deserves no relief whatsoever, let alone statehood. Whether or not PR is given any debt relief or granted statehood has everything to do with the economy.

This is not news to the Puerto Ricans. I first heard of it myself from homeowners in VSJ, who were around when it all came down.

Rey, Gustaf, maybe you guys should take this discussion to private messages?
Just a suggeston...

Gary wrote:

Rey, Gustaf, maybe you guys should take this discussion to private messages?
Just a suggeston...

Done.
I will stop posting news and get it over with that way.
Everyone can read articles and be informed on their own.

lgustaf wrote:

Research it yourself, Rey. It's not speculation. Mr. T has publically stated he is at odds with PR because he couldn't get his way, and as far as he's concerend PR deserves no relief whatsoever, let alone statehood. Whether or not PR is given any debt relief or granted statehood has everything to do with the economy.

This is not news to the Puerto Ricans. I first heard of it myself from homeowners in VSJ, who were around when it all came down.

You're way off.  Very few people have any interest in seeing the U.S. bail out PR and few people see a compelling reason to admit PR as a state.   It's not political - it's lack of interest in fixing someone else's financial problem, whether its Stockton, CA, Orange County, CA, Detroit, MI, Chicago, IL or the state of Illinois.  Believe me, there's no interest among politicians or on Main Street for PR's economic woes.

Careful, we don't want to continue fighting.
Disagree in private like Gary suggested.

I will not be posting any additional news, not even water outages.

ReyP wrote:

Careful, we don't want to continue fighting.
Disagree in private like Gary suggested.

I will not be posting any additional news, not even water outages.

Rey,

Please don't stop posting about the news. It's important to this forum, I believe most will agree.

it's good to post links to articles, but frankly, they are lengthy, complicated, and difficult to take in when one hasn't the time to research every nuance. I tried reading a few, but I just want the bottom line. What does it say in essence, and what does that mean for the economy and people.

I would agree that few are interested in a "bail out", which is quite different than "relief" in some form or another.

I have heard many in Congress who ARE interested and do care about the future of PR and its debt crisis. I listen to the Congressional meetings every day.

One way of caring for PR and its economy is for outsiders to do nothing. PR needs to reform to become business friendly and economically competitive. Getting more cash may merely delay the adoption of much needed reforms. Then again, perhaps it's a lost cause. I don't know at this point.

NomadLawyer wrote:

PR needs to reform to become business friendly and economically competitive.

Exactly, that's the only way.

Example: yesterday I was talking with a guy who has had a tour guide operation on the island for 20 years or so. Every year they need to get the required permits again.
This year there's a problem since a certain form that was supposed to be available for download wasn't and someone had to go to San Juan in person to get the form which of course took hours and hours of waiting. Because of that  they filed a day late and might have to wait for months before they get the permit, meanwhile being out of business. I don't know all the details but for an established well known and good operated company with employees this is ridiculous.
First the fact that permits have to be renewed every year, even for a long established company and second that they couldn't get (and just as normal nowadays file) the form online.
Third the thing that filing one day late could delay the permit so long that they are going to be out of business because of that.

Just one small example of how the rules are killing companies.

Is that a US rule or a PR rule, Gary? And how far in advance can the operator apply for a new license?

It seemed to me the rule itself wasn't the problem, but rather that it wasn't availble to download, so that it could be completed and submitted before the deadline.

Supposedly they are working on expediting the permits process so things will take 6 months instead of 10, 

lgustaf wrote:

Is that a US rule or a PR rule, Gary? And how far in advance can the operator apply for a new license?

I guess PR rule, Gustaf. No clue about the details, we were sitting at the pool with a couple of cold ones and he really didn't want to explain the whole process. (and honestly I didn't need to hear it as well)
Thing is that there's a lot of red tape for (small) business owners and a huge reform is needed. It would make things easier to start and run a business and also reduce the (way too high) number of government employees. They would most likely find a job in a private company easier.

In the case of a tour guide operation I'd say a permit should be one time thing. After that there should be checks every now and a simple way for clients to file a complaint which would trigger another check by a government inspector.
If companies don't play by the rules they would get three months or so to fix things and after that a fine would be due if they didn't fix the issue. When they really screw up all the time they lose the permit.
Right now they have to get the permit one way (the normal way) or another (the corrupt way) and there's never ever a check. Clients have no way to file a complaint either.
So the permits are only there to bring some money in the government's pocket and in the corrupt civil servant's pocket.

I would assume that the SBA in PR can help orient small businesses on the processes and procedures.

ReyP wrote:

I would assume that the SBA in PR can help orient small businesses on the processes and procedures.

I guess they can but they can't change the system, they might be able to guide potential business owners through the maze.

Gary wrote:

ReyP wrote:

I would assume that the SBA in PR can help orient small businesses on the processes and procedures.

I guess they can but they can't change the system, they might be able to guide potential business owners through the maze.

That is what it is needed, guidance and advice, they should be able to do that or get a new gig. We need to live with whatever efficiency or inefficiency is in place until things change. It is outside of their mission to make changes based on what little I know.

There are also other outfits trying to generate new young business, I don't know about you but at 64 I am young so I should qualify, LOL.

From what I've been able to research, tour guides in most states not only need a license but a certification, where they take special courses and must pass a test for certification -- sort of like becoming a real estate agent. If tour guides in PR are not certified, I can understand why a yearly licensing requirement might be advisable.

And the last time I was in VSJ, I noticed several new business open in the area, all doing very well. One is a bakery that has a breakfast area, and every time I went by it was packed. The pizza place down the street is also ALWAYS packed. There is one other pizza place, but it is mediocre, so everybody goes to the New York pizza place.   

The good thing about starting a business now, is there is little competition. People are moving there,, and they are folks with some means. I see lots of opportunities. Vacant storefronts dying for a new owner. Can't tell you how many people I've talked to who would die for good take-out Chinese.

lgustaf wrote:

From what I've been able to research, tour guides in most states not only need a license but a certification, where they take special courses and must pass a test for certification -- sort of like becoming a real estate agent. If tour guides in PR are not certified, I can understand why a yearly licensing requirement might be advisable.

I understand they need a certification and a license. Here in PR you need at least one license and at  least a couple of  permits for any business, especially if you are servicing the general public. Business to business is (somewhat) easier.

ReyP!

Please don't stop your very informative and timely information. I've found it very valuable. And a huge help to my search about living in PR.
Thank you ReyP!

Very good article in Bloomberg today. Link here. There are several interesting takeaways. One is that the debt doubled in 10 years from 2016 to 2017. There's a graph to display how this happened by debt type.

And there's this: "Research by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that college graduates make up roughly the same proportion of emigres as they do in the island's general population, suggesting that the departures have touched every corner of the commonwealth."

NomadLawyer wrote:

And there's this: "Research by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that college graduates make up roughly the same proportion of emigres as they do in the island's general population, suggesting that the departures have touched every corner of the commonwealth."

That really surprises me! Actually it's good news.

It is not just people leaving on their own.
Texas and Florida have been coming to PR to actively recruit Doctors, Nurses, Teachers.
I seen also adds from Florida for workers, Saw adds for Puerto Ricans to come to the states for meat packing industry and fish packing industry in Alaska.

Now that there are issues with immigration, Puerto Ricans are becoming a need in several states.

I remember when Alaska tried to recruit Puerto Ricans,  it was basically slave labor tactics. A group got together and protested their impeding presence here and it was quickly shut down. The was the last I heard of it though, perhaps they decided to recruit more covertly after that.

We are personally seeing a lot of people leaving the island, mostly middle-upper middle income earners. One was working at a high level government position and was not getting paid in full for several months. Finally said screw this and quickly landed a job in the Northeast getting paid what he is worth. Unfortunately he takes with him a dear friend and colleague. We are beside ourselves with sadness and angry that there has been time and opportunities for decades to turn this situation around. But for sheer greed this island is being torn apart.

Even if you are highly educated and at the top of your field it is tough existing here. Add bureaucratic hoops and professionals who are looking out for themselves and it is almost impossible to succeed, everything is an uphill battle, every single day.  For example: While a friend of ours was working in San Juan, the landlord found out they were in a similar business as his own and immediately terminated the lease. They could of had a lucrative symbiotic professional relationship but he chose the low road instead. Unfortunately we see a lot of this kind of pettiness in our own business relationships, it really is astounding and makes absolutely no sense.

Btw, I posted a marijuana article last week that goes into the ways business is conducted here, (going on right now) especially when the government is involved. If you haven't read it (even if you don't care about the marijuana industry) I definitely think it is worth the time to do so.