Negotiating a move from South Africa to Germany

Dear Seaspright, I'm also from SA,and grew up in Durban/PMB. We live in Lorrach area. My wife is German and our sons here are 11 and 12 years old. You're welcome to ask any questions re. moving from there to here. Other things to consider is also getting used to the German mentality and making friends. This is for SAcans many times the biggest challenge. If company is really willing to move your stuff and pay for all that sounds good.

Dear Francois999,

good to hear from you! Looks like we have some things in common... i.e. we're both from Durban and we both married Germans.  (Only mine is an ex!)

I do actually have some experience living and working in Germany - so I know exactly what you mean about German mentality, etc. It was tough at first, but once I learned the language, made friends, (having children in Germany definitely helped!), I felt quite 'at home' there too.  I returned to SA, once my divorce was finalised, so that the boys could spend more time with their grandparents here/ become more 'South African', etc..  And while I don't in any way regret this... having a 'decent career' in Durban has proven difficult to impossible!  So some 4+ years since returning to the 'Heimat', (from a career/ financial perspective), to start applying for jobs in Germany, (where I generally get more positive responses than here).

The problem for me - having not worked full time since before my boys were born, I have nooo idea how to negotiate salary or what would be a 'reasonable relocation package'.   Any ideas?? PLZ?

Thanks for taking the time to write to me!

Hi, always good to speak to SAans! OK, so it seems you have some experience of the DE mentality.
Salary is maar always a bit of a thing. The question is rather 2 things: How much do you need to be able to buy the basic ´things you need. The other is the normal pay for this type of work.(?). To the first bit, one would  need about 1500-2000 euros for Rent, food, household stuff, petrol, etc. One can, ..survive on a small salary, and cut things to the bone,.. All depends on how big one's needs are. If you are very despirate to find better work, safer living (one of our resons for coming), better possibiilities for children, etc, its worth it. But as I've said and you prob. also know by now, the mentality here is very different than in SA... Its easier when you have some good friends here or SAcans in DE. This helps a lot. But to com e back to the Salary bit. The opportunity sounds very good. re. sarary: try and found out what is the normal salary for that position here in DE. (Our simmilar job?). I really don't know this field of work... I'm an Art teacher..But as I said a basic salary, very basic salary would earn you about 1500 - 2000 p mth. My wife works over the border here in CH, and the most people here in our area try to find work over the border here in CH because the pay in much better than in DE. The most of them live in DE and work over the border in CH.
Hope this help a bit. But, please ask spesific questions and I will see if I could answer them.
Best regards, Francois.

Hello again you SAan!

Ok, I understand that you won't know too much about 'Geowissenschaftler' salaries.... but I appreciate your rough 'guideline' on how much you need to 'get by' there.  Yes, you earn a whole lot more in CH, but living expenses are also a whole lot cheaper in DE.  For clarification purposes... the amounts you mentioned are 'Netto', not 'Bruto', right?

Yes, safety is naturally also a factor - that and 'Kindergeld' and free education and ....  No, there are no 'maids' in Germany, but, (family aside - they're irreplaceable of course!)  my experience is that it's still easier to manage as a 'single mom' there, than it is here.  And yes, I still do have good friends there - mostly in Bavaria/ around Regensburg.

Seeing as your boys are the same age as mine... I'm interested to know how long ago you moved to Germany and how long it took for your boys to settle in/ adjust.  My boys DO speak German, (they were born there).  But we came to SA when they were in Grades 1 and 2.  They keep up the German thanks to the Deutsche Schule here, but the standard is naturally no where close to what it is there.  Also, they're now loving SA - the sports, the relaxed lifestyle, etc.  And are old enough to know that the adjustment isn't going be easy!  Any hints/ tips for the kids??

Thanks SAcan!!!

So... you said to ask more specific questions.... so now they're coming thick and fast ;-)
1, How long ago did you move and approximately how much did the move cost you?
2. Did you pay for the relocation yourselves/ did a company assist you with the move?
3. Any suggestions on how best/ with whom?? I could get relocation quotes/ estimates

Greetings from beautiful Durban!

1. Salary: You should find out (from published salary surveys, Tarifverträge, etc.) what is the usual salary for your job title and industry. Of course what you will actually get depends on your education, work experience, fir to the vacant job, negotiation skills and how desperate the employer is - all of which cannot be deduced from your message.

2. Relocation: This depends on how much stuff you'll bring, from two suitcases (=cost of a flight ticket) to a 40ft container anything goes - and thus is the variation in costs.

3. If you have a 12 months job and plan to bring your kids over several months later, it is not worth the effort uprooting them for just a few months! (You should not count on an extension if it wasn't guaranteed to you in writing!)

4. Please do not double-post the same message twice on the forum - the other one will be removed in due course.

ok. Dear Seaspright, I've just realized this is open forum. Therefore the comment from Beppi above. Guess its good advice. My own email is:       fviljoen(at)gmx.de 
You're welcome to email us there. Re. the move, we were prob. a bit "unconventual" than most people,..and kids were 3 and 5.....We came over only with our backpacks (!),...Sold/gave away all our furiture/stuff in SA, before coming to EU. Backpacks and cash (travel checks). So with internas. moving companies we had no experience/knowlegde. You can buy "gebrauchtes" funiture here, ..not so expensive than in SA...(in relation, that is). In that area, unfort. I cannot help you. Guess a bit of googleling might be best option, and comparing prices from many firms.
Yes, the 1500-2000 is a very rough estimation and a normal very basic salary... The are of course the "lanies" (you know, SA way of talking), who earns fro 5 000 to 20 000 euros p month, but for normal people, plat op die aarde, a very basic brutto salary to survive on would be 2000 euros. People on social welfare (looking for work/ unemployedf) got about 1500 (last time I checked, but this could have changed).

Thanks Beppi! 

1. Salary - I'm well qualified, (Diplom- Uni), have considerable work experience and the employer is desperate to make a quick hire for a contract they've received.  My negotiation skills are however 'suspect' to say the least, (hence the request for advice).  Thanks for the tip on 'Tarifvertraege'... I'll be 'googling'

2. I believe I'm being expected to quote a 'lump sum' - which I may very well use to buy stuff as opposed to getting a container.  I really just wanted to know what was a 'reasonable lump sum' to request.

3. I've been given an indication that they'd want to extend.  (That this is the way their contracts work).  Either way, I'm viewing this as a 'foot in the door'.  Certainly, it's easier to look for something 'better/ more suitable', when I'm already in the country.  But yes, I agree... if it's 'really' just a year, uprooting the kids would not be a good idea.

4. The double post was mostly a question of not being entirely sure where the question 'fits'. It's not a problem if one is removed.

Really appreciate your taking the time to respond!

1. Salary: Find out whether the company applies a Tarifvertrag (=union-negotiated pay model). If so, your negotiations are limited to which classification level your job falls under (and that fixes the pay). If not you can freely negotiate - in which case you should wait for an offer from them first and then ask for more, e.g. saying that the effort of relocating from so far away for a one-year contract is only worth it if you get XXX.
2. Relocation: €5000 is often used as lump sum for international moves - but sending a 20ft container will most likely cost double of that (get quotes from moving companies!). Take care that the contract says the move back is also paid for in case you are terminated or not extended.