House buying

This is my first post so take it easy with me
I'm planning on buying a 2/3 bed apartment in either Pattaya or Koh Samui, I understand that foreigners aren't allowed to own land in thailand unless they live there or have a Thai partner, which I have neither and I understand a few of the basics, I suppose my question would be. What pitfalls to look out for, stamp duty, land rent, any surprise taxes. We wouldn't be there all the time and will use it as a holiday home before moving out as my wife is unsure about the whole thing and doesn't want to uproot the kids while being unsure herself. What about rental returns, surcharges. Its not generally the cost of the property it would be the unseen, hidden extras. Any help will be greatly appreciated

TIA
Russ
-@russ75

FYI, a foreigner (as an individual) can't by law buy land. It doesn't matter if you live here or are married to a thai.

Yeah I know, I did write that, all properties are lease hold, to my understanding anything more then 3yrs needs to go through government channels to be approved, and can be leased upto 30yrs

Yeah I know, I did write that, all properties are lease hold, to my understanding anything more then 3yrs needs to go through government channels to be approved, and can be leased upto 30yrs
-@russ75

The 30 years part is about land.

Oh really, right ok, I thought you could lease the property upto 30yrs then negotiate again, obviously my misunderstanding. What protections are there for people like me then who'll want to buy a property but can't purchase the land, what's the process once we've found the right place, got an overseas mortgage in place, things like stamp duty, taxes, etc etc

I'm planning on buying a 2/3 bed apartment in either Pattaya or Koh Samui, I understand that foreigners aren't allowed to own land in thailand

Howdy - it sounds like you're buying a condo, not a house as the title implied. A bit of background:

• Foreigners can't own more than 49% of landed property, i.e. a house, a lot, etc.
• Foreigners can own a condo if falls in the 49% of total area allowed for foreigners in a given development

So, you can buy the condo and own it outright as soon as it's paid if you find one in a building that meets that criterium. Full information on how this works, Section 19 (1-11) of the Condominium Act. Get a lawyer and/or real estate agent to help with this.

Once you find the property you like, the process is simple and straight forward (I'm 56, so even simpler). Purchase agreement executed, money is sent from outside of the country to Thailand, converted to THB, set up powers of attorney for various operations (you'll need a Thai-speaking lawyer to push paper for you), and you're good to go.

A sensible, trustworthy real estate agent can help you navigate the process. If you're over 50 you're eligible for a "retirement visa" which allows for long-term residence in Thailand, and helps with the condo purchase paperwork. There's also documentation that needs to be filed and validated at the Land Department.

So - while you can't own land per se, you can own a condo. From your description of "apartment" sounds like this might be the way to go for you.

Re: Pattaya -- my real estate agent in Pattaya was recommended by my real estate agent in Miami Beach, where I have a couple properties for sale at the moment. Both agents are boutique (i.e. specialize in higher market properties) and have proven so far to be honest, reliable and accurate. The process has all worked as it was described to me, no pressures, and good actionable information. When finding your real estate guy, go through word of mouth to find someone with whom you feel comfortable working.

Cheers!

Thanks pr3d4T0r

• I didnt think about powers of attorney, would make things much simpler I guess. Now I know I can't buy land, and a Condo does sound easier and simpler but what if I wanted to buy a house how would the leasing work, I'm assuming that'll be a lot more complicated.
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• Is it possible to add pictures

I'm planning on buying a 2/3 bed apartment in either Pattaya or Koh Samui, I understand that foreigners aren't allowed to own land in thailand

Howdy - it sounds like you're buying a condo, not a house as the title implied. A bit of background:

Foreigners can't own more than 49% of landed property, i.e. a house, a lot, etc.
Foreigners can own a condo if falls in the 49% of total area allowed for foreigners in a given development

So, you can buy the condo and own it outright as soon as it's paid if you find one in a building that meets that criterium. Full information on how this works, Section 19 (1-11) of the Condominium Act. Get a lawyer and/or real estate agent to help with this.

Once you find the property you like, the process is simple and straight forward (I'm 56, so even simpler). Purchase agreement executed, money is sent from outside of the country to Thailand, converted to THB, set up powers of attorney for various operations (you'll need a Thai-speaking lawyer to push paper for you), and you're good to go.

A sensible, trustworthy real estate agent can help you navigate the process. If you're over 50 you're eligible for a "retirement visa" which allows for long-term residence in Thailand, and helps with the condo purchase paperwork. There's also documentation that needs to be filed and validated at the Land Department.

So - while you can't own land per se, you can own a condo. From your description of "apartment" sounds like this might be the way to go for you.

Re: Pattaya -- my real estate agent in Pattaya was recommended by my real estate agent in Miami Beach, where I have a couple properties for sale at the moment. Both agents are boutique (i.e. specialize in higher market properties) and have proven so far to be honest, reliable and accurate. The process has all worked as it was described to me, no pressures, and good actionable information. When finding your real estate guy, go through word of mouth to find someone with whom you feel comfortable working.

Cheers!
-@pr3d4t0r

"If you're over 50 you're eligible for a "retirement visa" which allows for long-term residence in Thailand, and helps with the condo purchase paperwork."

Not correct. You don't need to be a long term resident to be able to buy a condo in Thailand. You can arrive on a tourist visa and buy a condo without any problem what so ever.

@russ75 - There's no way to buy more than 49% of a house.  That's why I went the condo route.  I don't remember all the details but the main gist is that you may own only 49% of the landed house, and must take a Thai entity as the owner of the other 51%.  Something about a 30-year lease that can auto-renew once if set up correctly.  Others here can speak about that process.  It didn't sound like it was for me, ignored the whole thing.

Like Leeds forever pointed out:  the 50-year retirement visa is not a requirement for buying the condo; on my side I plan on moving to Thailand for at least a year, that's why it was thrown in the mix.  My wife younger than 50, my kid is 11, so sorting out the visas for them in the coming weeks.  Separate conversation.

The family set up was relevant for condo vs house because of the kind of facilities we wanted in ours (apart from living quarters), location, accessibility/distance to schools (all are far from us - meh), comforts availability (how far are the closest groceries shop or café latte?), while meeting other requirements we have, like the property must be right on the beach, without having to cross a vehicular road like in Jomtien, have a full gym, swimming pool, and so on.  Kid, girl, and I all had to like being there and around there.

Crystal clear clarity of purpose will help you identify the type of property you engage.  Factor all your lifestyle requirements as part of your decisions on what to buy, where, budget, etc.  Get local assistance to navigate bureaucratic and legal processes.

Cheers!

@russ75 - There's no way to buy more than 49% of a house. That's why I went the condo route. I don't remember all the details but the main gist is that you may own only 49% of the landed house, and must take a Thai entity as the owner of the other 51%. Something about a 30-year lease that can auto-renew once if set up correctly. Others here can speak about that process. It didn't sound like it was for me, ignored the whole thing.
Like Leeds forever pointed out: the 50-year retirement visa is not a requirement for buying the condo; on my side I plan on moving to Thailand for at least a year, that's why it was thrown in the mix. My wife younger than 50, my kid is 11, so sorting out the visas for them in the coming weeks. Separate conversation.

The family set up was relevant for condo vs house because of the kind of facilities we wanted in ours (apart from living quarters), location, accessibility/distance to schools (all are far from us - meh), comforts availability (how far are the closest groceries shop or café latte?), while meeting other requirements we have, like the property must be right on the beach, without having to cross a vehicular road like in Jomtien, have a full gym, swimming pool, and so on. Kid, girl, and I all had to like being there and around there.

Crystal clear clarity of purpose will help you identify the type of property you engage. Factor all your lifestyle requirements as part of your decisions on what to buy, where, budget, etc. Get local assistance to navigate bureaucratic and legal processes.

Cheers!
-@pr3d4t0r

"while meeting other requirements we have, like the property must be right on the beach, without having to cross a vehicular road like in Jomtien, have a full gym, swimming pool, and so on."

You need to stay on planet earth. If you don't like your kids to cross roads,then you better stay out in the sticks. I live in Jomtien,maybe 1100 meters from the beach. I don't care much about crossing roads where you're supposed to,but if I do, there's one intersection with traffic lights and anyone can cross the street/road without any problems what so ever.No one is actually speeding in Jomtien except maybe up on Sukhumvit Road. On Jomtien Beach Rd it's never any speeding daytime,same on Jomtien Second Rd. Believe me, I'm doing this sort of quite fast 6km walk in the morning 6 times a week, and I'm just crossing 2-3 streets,and I'm doing it the diagonal way normally,and still no problem at all. Never compare traffic in Jomtien with Bangkok. Try to find a nice condo,don't think about traffic and stuff.

@Leeds forever! I never said anything about my kid. We like our beach properties to be right on the beach. That's how I'm set up in Acapulco and how I was set up in Rosarito. It's only about the aesthetics of being right on the beach vs having the road. And hey, our place in Thailand is set up the exact way we wanted: right on the beach, no road in between.

As an aside: we spent time in Jomtien too, looking at a few places and checking out the environment -- it's a bit too bohemian. Love to visit, but not right for us to set up home.

Imagine how boring life would be if we all liked the same things, the same way!

View from the gate to the beach from our place.  No road.

Meh - the image didn't get through.  Retry.

@Leeds forever! I never said anything about my kid. We like our beach properties to be right on the beach. That's how I'm set up in Acapulco and how I was set up in Rosarito. It's only about the aesthetics of being right on the beach vs having the road. And hey, our place in Thailand is set up the exact way we wanted: right on the beach, no road in between.
As an aside: we spent time in Jomtien too, looking at a few places and checking out the environment -- it's a bit too bohemian. Love to visit, but not right for us to set up home.

Imagine how boring life would be if we all liked the same things, the same way!

View from the gate to the beach from our place. No road.


-@pr3d4t0r

If you want a house on the beach and no big roads,then you can probably forget about Naklua and Jomtien. You can check out locations further south,like Sattahip or Bang Saray.

@Leeds forever! - I think this reply was meant for the guy who started this thread. I already bought a place in Naklua that met our requirements. Based on his post I'd suggested that he gets a condo instead of a house, because of how landed property ownership vs condominium units works in Thailand. He referred to "apartment" in his posts even though the topic is House buying.

100% agreed on your suggestion to look further south for landed property with direct beach access.

My suggestions to @russ75 / this thread were to engage a reputable real estate agent, be crystal clear about his requirements vs budget, and use legal immigration counsel to optimize time and money around the processes of acquiring property and sorting out his visas.

What I was originally after was a 3bed house in either koh samui or pattaya, near amenities and a beach, as a holiday rental to start, with the prospect of moving to Thailand  at some point, knowing that we CANT own the land I was mainly after some advice, do people do it (just own the property) what protections would i have from the land owner bulldozing the place, can i own just the property but sign up for say, a 99yr lease, what taxes, stamp duties are there. Or should we just go down the Condo route as its simpler, then what's the the best place to own a Condo

@russ75 - I think your questions would be better answered by a real estate agent or developer.  I own condos in two other beach towns (Miami, Acapulco).  In both cases the condominium association determines the rules for rentals, who's allowed in, and so on, atop local laws and regulations.  Beach town condos tend to have more stringent rules than other locations.  If you intend to rent the place out, or turn it into an Airbnb, let your real estate agent to know that's your intention.  They will know building rules, regulations, legal requirements, zoning, insurance, etc. that vary by city, neighborhood, condo association/building rules, etc.  and offer properties (house or condo) that meet your requirements.

Condo doesn't always mean "apartment like in a vertical building" - I have a friend in Pattaya/Jomtien who develops houses on actual land -- he owns the land, enters in one of those 49%ç51% deals, and then the buyer is free to build (and own) whatever is on top of the land.  The houses are set up in a closed-gate community with 8-12 of them, so it's like a "horizontal condo" arrangement.  I didn't investigate further because he and I agreed that houses are not my thing.  I will ask him how a build-to-rent would work in his setup, report back.

You may want to create a new post, expanding the topic beyond "house buying" to attract expat readers who have gone through similar experiences to what you seek.  Cheers!

Thanks for your advice pr3d4t0r, its much appreciated, I have been intouch with an estate agent in koh samui over the weekend and they've explained a few things which has put my mind at ease , mainly knowing that I can either buy land through a limited company, or buy the house (leasehold) 49% 51% 30+30yrs and won't be getting kicked out of my own property, he's been very helpful.

It's my first venture so wasn't really sure what to say or ask or how to say it, my wife is very risk-averse, where as im not, so when she asks questions I'm confident in my answers, I mainly wanted to know that if I enter into a 49/51% deal then we won't be getting kicked out at the whim of the land owner

Thanks for all your advice and I look forward to what your friend says about build to rent

Russ

@russ75 - I spoke with my buddy developer in Pattaya who does the houses/parceling. In a nutshell he said that the land + construction purchase is done through an SPV (a special purpose vehicle, a type of legal entity for carrying out business). The shares are divided within the company itself (SPV) and carry voting rights and so on -- that's how you'd avoid coming to a bulldozed location. He offered to chat with you, ping me if you want me to introduce you guys. Fluent in English. His name is Chakrit, and he knows the regulations quite well. I'm friends with his father, for reference on how I know him. This is one of his developments: *** - Chakrit is the guy with the turban. Cheers!