12 month business visa without a work permit?

Vegetivita wrote:

A Vietnamese friend of mine recently told me about a company she found that can get 12 month business visas for people without a bachelor's degree (i.e. me).

What does a business visa have to do with a bachelor's degree???   
AFAIK 12-month business visas are readily available.
- Vietnam visa (for reference only)

Maybe my understanding of a business visa is fundamentally wrong.

I was under the assumption that you can't (legally) be hired for a job without a work permit and you can't obtain a work permit without a bachelor's degree.

So why would a company sponsor someone without said degree when they are ineligible to work?

I was also under the assumption that you can only obtain a business visa from the business you will work for.  Since I won't be working for this company, I assumed it was a moot point.

You are correct in that you can't legally be hired without a work permit/visa.
If the company, you'd want to work for, feels that you're capable of getting the job done, then they can sponsor you regardless of what level of a degree you may have.

Side note* When I applied for my visa (tourist) I was given the option for a 12 month tourist multi-entry visa. So I received the visa thinking I did not have to re-apply or ask for an extension every 3 months. After my visa was confirmed here in Vietnam (@ airport - visa on arrival), it was marked that I can only stay for 3 months... further inquiring, - I will have to leave Vietnam in 3 months ( I guess for 1 days time or more) and then just come back into Vietnam with my same 12 month tourist multi-entry Visa. And repeat every 3 months.
Kinda silly.

im1ron wrote:

You are correct in that you can't legally be hired without a work permit/visa.
If the company, you'd want to work for, feels that you're capable of getting the job done, then they can sponsor you regardless of what level of a degree you may have.

Side note* When I applied for my visa (tourist) I was given the option for a 12 month tourist multi-entry visa. So I received the visa thinking I did not have to re-apply or ask for an extension every 3 months. After my visa was confirmed here in Vietnam (@ airport - visa on arrival), it was marked that I can only stay for 3 months... further inquiring, - I will have to leave Vietnam in 3 months ( I guess for 1 days time or more) and then just come back into Vietnam with my same 12 month tourist multi-entry Visa. And repeat every 3 months.
Kinda silly.

The visa you got is one especially for Americans and you have to do a border run, the 12 month business visa you don't have to leave every 3 months.

@Vegetivita

All your assumptions are correct.

The link you posted takes me to the site of  a Visa agency. Of course they have an interest in arranging a dubious sponsorship (invitation) from an XYZ company to help you get the business visa. AFAIK the going rate for 12 month b-visa on arrival is around $300+- (for the agent) and $135 for stamping at the airport.

Regarding WP, most jobs require a minimum degree (in a relevant subject). However, if you have specialized industry training with extensive experience, you can still be considered eligible for WP in certain fields without a degree. As already mentioned by another poster, it all depends on your employer.

For English teaching jobs, a bachelor's degree is one of the mandatory requirements as far as WP is concerned.

When a genuine company wants to hire a foreigner from outside of Vietnam,  it usually sponsors a 3 month business visa for him/her.

There seems to be a common confusion about a business visa and a work permit with TRC.  A business visa allows you to conduct business.  That is it would allow you to work on temporary assignment for a foreign entity while being paid in the home country.  It also allows you to enter the country to establish business relationships to do things like import/export.  Anything that involves a company paying you wages while residing in Vietnam requires a work permit regardless of the visa you hold.  Holding a TRC removes the necessity to hold any visa at all.  A business visa and a work permit are not the same thing.

Good grief!!
This is not rocket science people. I have lived here for 5 years. I have a business Visa. Every year I cross the border and come back for my new Visa. Here is a phone number of my lady Ms. Kahn in Saigon. +84 0902803602. Just tell her what you need or want to do. Tell her Ron Cavanaugh told you to call. She will explain everything and set you up with what you need. As I recall, it did not cost $300 last year when I renewed my  Visa. She is a good lady, be nice to her

ronni50 wrote:

Good grief!!
This is not rocket science people. I have lived here for 5 years. I have a business Visa. Every year I cross the border and come back for my new Visa. Here is a phone number of my lady Ms. Kahn in Saigon. +84 0902803602. Just tell her what you need or want to do. Tell her Ron Cavanaugh told you to call. She will explain everything and set you up with what you need. As I recall, it did not cost $300 last year when I renewed my  Visa. She is a good lady, be nice to her

Thanks very much! Saving a screen shot of your post for when I'm ready to return to Vietnam.

Gordy

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

ronni50 wrote:

Good grief!!
This is not rocket science people. I have lived here for 5 years. I have a business Visa. Every year I cross the border and come back for my new Visa. Here is a phone number of my lady Ms. Kahn in Saigon. +84 0902803602. Just tell her what you need or want to do. Tell her Ron Cavanaugh told you to call. She will explain everything and set you up with what you need. As I recall, it did not cost $300 last year when I renewed my  Visa. She is a good lady, be nice to her

Thanks very much! Saving a screen shot of your post for when I'm ready to return to Vietnam.

Gordy

300 usd for a one year business visa, that has to be the cheapest rate I have seen.

colinoscapee wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

ronni50 wrote:

Good grief!!
This is not rocket science people. I have lived here for 5 years. I have a business Visa. Every year I cross the border and come back for my new Visa. Here is a phone number of my lady Ms. Kahn in Saigon. +84 0902803602. Just tell her what you need or want to do. Tell her Ron Cavanaugh told you to call. She will explain everything and set you up with what you need. As I recall, it did not cost $300 last year when I renewed my  Visa. She is a good lady, be nice to her

Thanks very much! Saving a screen shot of your post for when I'm ready to return to Vietnam.

Gordy

300 usd for a one year business visa, that has to be the cheapest rate I have seen.

Just curious.  How much is it for the actual visa and how much is for the somewhat shady letter from a company you never heard of and other services?

colinoscapee wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

ronni50 wrote:

Good grief!!
This is not rocket science people. I have lived here for 5 years. I have a business Visa. Every year I cross the border and come back for my new Visa. Here is a phone number of my lady Ms. Kahn in Saigon. +84 0902803602. Just tell her what you need or want to do. Tell her Ron Cavanaugh told you to call. She will explain everything and set you up with what you need. As I recall, it did not cost $300 last year when I renewed my  Visa. She is a good lady, be nice to her

Thanks very much! Saving a screen shot of your post for when I'm ready to return to Vietnam.

Gordy

300 usd for a one year business visa, that has to be the cheapest rate I have seen.

Add to that 135 USD, the actual stamping fee at the airport.

senwl wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Thanks very much! Saving a screen shot of your post for when I'm ready to return to Vietnam.

Gordy

300 usd for a one year business visa, that has to be the cheapest rate I have seen.

Add to that 135 USD, the actual stamping fee at the airport.

That too was my first thought.

" 300 usd for a one year business visa, that has to be the cheapest rate I have seen."

Well, it is rocket science for us who cannot think our way out of an open paper bag.

Fortunately, we live in Viet Nam, where reality teaches us such things...     

THIGV wrote:

There seems to be a common confusion about a business visa and a work permit with TRC.  A business visa allows you to conduct business.  That is it would allow you to work on temporary assignment for a foreign entity while being paid in the home country.  It also allows you to enter the country to establish business relationships to do things like import/export.  Anything that involves a company paying you wages while residing in Vietnam requires a work permit regardless of the visa you hold.  Holding a TRC removes the necessity to hold any visa at all.  A business visa and a work permit are not the same thing.

Excuse my ignorance but I'm still confused because of your line "anything that involves a company paying you wages while residing in Vietnam requires a work permit".  Is the company you refer to mean a local company or can it also be "a foreign entity" your referred to earlier.

Specifically, if I am working in Vietnam temporarily (with temporarily starting at six months and now going to a year and maybe longer) and my wages are paid by the mother company in the US direct deposit into my US account.
- Can/should I get a business visa?
- Is the only difference between a 12 month business visa and 12 month multi-entry tourist visa the 3-month refresh?
- Do I required a work permit with TRC?

If my living expenses and misc. costs are paid by the local, child company does that change the answer to any of the above questions.

Thank you.

My only experience is a teacher and the structure is a little different for corporate employees.  From this link http://www.vietnam-immigration.org.vn/n … -2015.html   provided by senwl who seems to have some experience in this area: 

"No.11: NN3
- This visa is granted for Staffs works for foreign organisation, representative office in Vietnam.
- The staying duration is up to 12 months."

Is this the visa that you currently hold?  It would seem to be the appropriate one.  I would think that as a practical matter, if you are paid by direct deposit in the US, you should be safe.  If you were paid locally in VND or dollars, I don't think it matters if your employer is a foreign entity.  I think you would still need a work permit.  There are hundreds of foreign companies, both US and non-US, in Vietnam and they can't all be keeping their management in the country without work permits. Going beyond one year is certainly pushing the definition of temporary.

Also you living expense stipends could be a tip off to the local authorities.  Maybe better to be safe than sorry.  Does your company have an HR or Legal department?  If so they could probably provide a better answer than anything you will find out here.

I got slightly confused by some information I got by a friend.

I was currently under the impression that I will get a work permit when I get a job in Vietnam (have all the required paperwork) and TRC.

But do I need to get a Business Visa as well in that case?

Just wondering as I planned to arrive on a tourist visa until I secure a role (non teaching job) and only considered a business visa. But if I do not need one with a work permit I can actually save some money.

Any advise would be much appreciated.

Thanks

I agree with THIGV, the most appropriate visa for you should be of type NN3.

videriant wrote:

Specifically, if I am working in Vietnam temporarily (with temporarily starting at six months and now going to a year and maybe longer) and my wages are paid by the mother company in the US direct deposit into my US account.
- Can/should I get a business visa?
- Is the only difference between a 12 month business visa and 12 month multi-entry tourist visa the 3-month refresh?
- Do I required a work permit with TRC?

Much depends on the kind of business relationship these two companies  share with each other. It could be a local Representative Office of a foreign company or there could be a business tie-up between a local company and a foreign company, two different business entities.

In either case the local company who's brought you here on a "temporary" assignment must fulfil its obligations and liabilities to the Govt. of Vietnam in terms of taxation, visa, compensation etc.

Hence the best person to answer your question is the HR Manager in the local company you are working for.

It's illegal to engage in any kind of professional/business activities while on a tourist visa.

Apparently yes, AFA your stay in VN is concerned, the only difference is the 3-month refresh.
12-month business visa is a multi-entry one.

If my living expenses and misc. costs are paid by the local, child company does that change the answer to any of the above questions.

Once again, only your company can answer that question.
They know what special agreement (terms and conditions) they have with the local Govt.  on bringing in temporary foreign workers.

Am on a business visa and paid directly on my European bank account. Currently in the second one (business visa of 3 months each). Once probation passed (6 months), I was told I will be given a working permit. Am actually fine receiving directly wages on my European account and do not need to change.

So here are my questions
- Is shifting from business visa and punctual assignment to a work permit mandatory in Vietnam after a certain period?
- What will a work permit will bring me that the business visa doesn't? (job security?)
- Will I need to pay taxes?
- Will I have to be paid in local banks (currently do not have any local bank account)

Thanks!

kong75 wrote:

Am on a business visa and paid directly on my European bank account. Currently in the second one (business visa of 3 months each). Once probation passed (6 months), I was told I will be given a working permit. Am actually fine receiving directly wages on my European account and do not need to change.

So here are my questions
- Is shifting from business visa and punctual assignment to a work permit mandatory in Vietnam after a certain period?
- What will a work permit will bring me that the business visa doesn't? (job security?)
- Will I need to pay taxes?
- Will I have to be paid in local banks (currently do not have any local bank account)

- Yes, it's mandatory (by law). If you choose to work in Vietnam for more than 3 months (in rare cases 6 months) you need a WP.
- WP will give you nothing 'extra' other than a valid proof that the Govt. of VN has allowed you to work legally in their country.
- Yes, your company will pay it for you (OR ... will take care of that as per their HR policy and agreement with the Govt. )
- This I am not sure about, but prolly, yes, you may have to open a local bank acct. Again, depends on your company's HR policy.

I know a couple of top-level corporate employees on their long-term international assignments in Vietnam. They are working in their respective ROs and they both have VN WPs.
Not sure what kind of visas they have. Most likely not business visas because their spouses and minor children are living with them on dependent visas.

kong75 wrote:

What will a work permit will bring me that the business visa doesn't?

Having a WP allows you to apply for a Temporary Residency Card.  Having the TRC removes the need to have any visa at all.  You have the freedom to leave and reenter the country as long as it is in force but don't have to do so if you choose not to.  I don't know about a business visa but leaving and reentering on expiration is a requirement of several types of visa.  I am kind of surprised that senwl forgot to mention the TRC.

THIGV wrote:

I am kind of surprised that senwl forgot to mention the TRC.

I decided to skip that part because ....
One can still get TRC without holding a WP (or having a VN spouse) in the following cases:
  • Members of a limited liable company with two members or more
  • Owner of a one-member limited liability company
  • Members in the Board of a joint-stock company
- source

You're right, his case doesn't fall into any of those categories mentioned above.
For him getting a WP is the only way to qualify for a TRC.

All clear thanks guys!

ronni50 wrote:

Good grief!!
This is not rocket science people. I have lived here for 5 years. I have a business Visa. Every year I cross the border and come back for my new Visa. Here is a phone number of my lady Ms. Kahn in Saigon. +84 0902803602. Just tell her what you need or want to do. Tell her Ron Cavanaugh told you to call. She will explain everything and set you up with what you need. As I recall, it did not cost $300 last year when I renewed my  Visa. She is a good lady, be nice to her

Thanks again, Ron. I just got my flight to Hanoi booked for late August. I searched for her on Skype and found her with this username:

live:117601617669a0d0

I'm not a fan of Viber, but I assume she's probably on there too.

I sent her a message asking if she has a website for Visa On Arrival (VOA) application.

You are right: the system really isn't rocket science. Once I stopped thinking of "business" and "work" as meaning the same thing, the lightbulb went off and I understood what's going on with the letter 'thang' (that's southern-speak for 'thing'... )

As for those who question your statement about your most recent renewal not being $300 USD, what you say seems in line with what I've been seeing on the many websites I've checked out for VOA, though there do seem to be reasons why some are coming up with higher numbers.

VOA agents are usually quoting prices for two 'thangs':

(In reverse order)

1. Visa Stamping Fee at Airport

This is the Cash Only fee paid to customs at the airport.

It appears to be based on only two factors:

A. Length of Visa

B. Single entry or Multiple entry

The price quoted everywhere I've seen is $135 USD for a 1 year visa, either tourist multiple entries (3 month border runs) or 1 year business that doesn't require border runs.

It appears to be a price set by the government of Việt Nam.


Again, that's cash only, paid to customs. The VOA selling agent doesn't get any of this; it doesn't even go through them, unless the traveler purchases one of the "jump to the head of the line--'VIP Fast Track' services" through their VOA agent.

That added service is listed as costing around $25 USD, and may or may not be helpful, if the VOA line turns out to be short. Obviously, the agent and customs split this for 'coffee money', or grease...Yeah, corruption!

2. An Application fee also known as the "Visa Letter Service Fee" which is the agency's own charge for assistance and issuing the letter. It seems to range from $6.00 USD for simple one-month visas to over $500 USD for Non-U.S. Passport holders.

The price I'm seeing for a 1 year business visa for U.S. passport holders runs from $120 USD to $280 USD, significantly less than the price charged for non-U.S. Passport holders.

Obviously, that final price is set by the individual VOA agent, and can vary by a lot.

SO, based on what I'm seeing on multiple websites, I'm expecting that I'll pay somewhere around $255 USD total (including stamping fee at airport).

If a U.S. passport holder is being quoted anything near or over $400 USD, just for the "Visa Letter Service Fee", then they should keep searching for an agent charging the lower fee for U.S. Passport holders.

This also helps to explain why non-U.S. Passport holders are reporting estimates of $400+ USD to get their 1 year business visa.

After I spend a few weeks to a month in the Ha Noi/Ha Long Bay areas of the north, I'm looking forward to checking out Hoi An, especially to get some tropical duds made by one of those tailors I hear about in your area.

See you then...

Cheers!

The one year visa for Americans has one hitch, you must do a border run every 3 months. This visa is not the same as the 1 year business visa offered to most nationalities.

colinoscapee wrote:

The one year visa for Americans has one hitch, you must do a border run every 3 months. This visa is not the same as the 1 year business visa offered to most nationalities.

I know you are much more well-informed than me, so please forgive me if my reply is ignorant.

I am finding two different one-year visas for U.S. Passport holders:

1. For tourists (DL) - As you say, this type does require a border crossing every three months.

2. A "business" visa (DN) - This type does not (reportedly) require any border runs.

Again, if through my ignorance I am posting incorrect information, please forgive me.

I've been spending hours...days...researching this information, and it does seem to be in line with what Ron in Hoi An has posted; the type of business visa he has been using for the past 5 years.

Personally, I will know for certain when I get and use my visa in August. I'll be sure to come back to this thread and give a first-person account.

Cheers!

thank you all so much I am not actually from the us but the uk and also being doing a lot of research and get so so so many different answers.....i will come to vietnam soon and find out for sure what is going on....here in cambodia we use an agent to extend our e visas for a year at a time i am wondering if that is possible in vietnam

jeannieb wrote:

thank you all so much I am not actually from the us but the uk and also being doing a lot of research and get so so so many different answers.....i will come to vietnam soon and find out for sure what is going on....here in cambodia we use an agent to extend our e visas for a year at a time i am wondering if that is possible in vietnam

E-visa extension is very difficult (if not impossible) in Vietnam.
UK nationals get VN e-visas with validity of less than 30 days (max) only. Check HERE.
Most likely no agent can/will do an e-visa extension for you.
If you do find an agent willing to do that, please check that agent's profile very well before giving him/her your passport.
Otherwise you may end up in the immigration blacklist with a fake visa.

thanks for your reply