dear all, I recently bought a house in Algarve - I asked for and was given a plot plan by the realtor, and subsequently my lawyer completed documentation without checking the actual boundaries. Turns out the plot plan was grossly misrepresented. do i have recourse against the realtor for fraudulent misrepresentation? I guess I clearly have a gross negligence claim against my lawyer for general sloppy incompetence.
Realtor misrepresentation re property sale
oarsman
09 August 2022 17:17:42
2
Bhavna
09 August 2022 17:49:46
36946
Hi Oarsman,
Welcome on board !
Realtors and lawyers are familiar with these kinds of transaction/operation, such things shouldn't happen. Did you visit the plot before signing ?
I hope members can point you in the right direction.
Regards,
Bhavna
oarsman
09 August 2022 21:46:05
2
@Bhavna
Hi, I did, and was told by the vendor what the realtor backed up in writing - totally fraudulent. I kicked the tyres, they lied, the lawyer went with the flow from his realtor chum..............
JohnnyPT
10 August 2022 00:23:35
3854
Hi Oarsman,
Maybe this will help you:
Complaints about these professionals:
- Real Estate and Construction Businesses:
(Post #2)
6. IMPIC examines complaints about Real Estate and Construction Businesses.
____________
- Lawyers:
(Post #3)
Who regulates Lawyer's professional activity in Portugal ?
OA - "Ordem dos Advogados"
Best Regards
Wilsonz
10 August 2022 08:10:45
18
Hi Johnny,
What's the correct procedure for investing in portugal? I've been standoffish lately because I'm scared I'm going to get scammed. The investment is an urban land for five houses which I plan to construct. I've spoken to a few lawyers but I'm still sceptical to proceed because I feel the agent will try to get the lawyer to do what they say - which they say is common in portugal regarding declarations. They have even mentioned private payments. I haven't mentioned any of this to anyone but I just want some advice as to where I can obtain the actual deed and check all details as to what I'm actually buying. I also want to know how I can trust my lawyer to represent me fully because I know the agent is keen to “speak” with my lawyer. Also, with regards to the 10% deposit, what guarantee is there that I'll get the deposit (and penalty) back should the owner change his mind about the sale? They asked for a private payment which I declined and said things must go through the lawyer. But how do I know the lawyer will process the transaction correctly and protect me from the owner running off with my money?
Many thanks!
JohnnyPT
10 August 2022 09:40:25
3854
@Wilsonz,
Important: you should always seek a second opinion if you find that there is already a professional relationship or knowledge/approach between your solicitor and your realtor.
You could also get a certified translator to help translate all the documentation. It is important that these professionals have nothing to do with each other and that they are chosen by you, with no interference from your lawyer or realtor.
Unfortunately there are dishonest professionals in every country. They cheat expats and also locals. But this situation is further made worse when you do not know the language and procedures to follow...
Documents to be aware of when buying a Property in Portugal
Certified Translators
(Post #17)
jo72
10 August 2022 18:38:54
2
not nice, I guess that there was a clause in the small print of the estate agent saying that the plans are not to be considered accurate and that you lawyer should check them (which is their duty) . It's not usually the duty of the estate agent to give you precise and accurate plans.
check the time period in which you MUST make a claim againt the lawyer, his/her insurance indemnity will cover that.
ask the lawyer for a copy of their indemnity policy (before you waste your money on making a claim)!!
Strontium
13 August 2022 21:08:57
237
dear all, I recently bought a house in Algarve - I asked for and was given a plot plan by the realtor, and subsequently my lawyer completed documentation without checking the actual boundaries. Turns out the plot plan was grossly misrepresented. do i have recourse against the realtor for fraudulent misrepresentation? I guess I clearly have a gross negligence claim against my lawyer for general sloppy incompetence.- @oarsman
Hi,
Normally you'd get the "land registry" listing(s) for the article(s) you are interested in which has the details of habitable area, construction, land size, types and numbers of trees etc. If interested then you'd proceed to a promissory contract where both purchaser and vendor put their offerings in writing AND put up a deposit which is kept if the purchaser reneges and 2x deposit if vendor reneges. If you go to law then whatever is in your signed promissory is what you agreed to buy. An estate agent (realator?) usually gives the information the vendor has supplied and is not responsible for the accuracy of that information which is why it all goes on the "land registry" listing which is the official "paperwork"
nz7521137
14 August 2022 11:47:50
562
@JohnnyPT, when I bought in Portugal I didn't go to a lawyer at all, but the whole transaction was done by the real estate agent and the notariat office in our town. The latter had all the paperwork and they checked whether taxes had been paid and whether the seller was really the legal owner of the property.
As you didn't mention the Notariat, I wonder how other people are buying/selling real estate. There often seems to be a lawyer involved, but I never used one.
TonyJ1
14 August 2022 12:07:12
152
In terms of what can or cannot be done with the property, cannot rely on verbal representations - restrictions etc should be registered against the title and also the law eg municipal plan for the area and other restrictions under national plans, specially rural property, historical sites, etc. If intend to develop a property, best to request a prior in principle approval from the local municipality - your lawyer can do this.
Best always to get an independent lawyer to represent your interest rather than using the lawyers recommended by the seller, sellers estate agent - they are not representing your interests.
In respect of boundaries etc- if it is not obbvious on what is being sold - best to get a survey done - lawyers are not responsible to verify the boundaries
Unfortunately, if these steps are taken, and you feel cheated - you are likely that you are on a fight to nothing.
PS if buying a house or an apartment, probably don't need a lawyer. Buying property in rural areas etc - buyer beware
JohnnyPT
14 August 2022 13:08:05
3854
@nz7521137,
The notary checks all the necessary papers, including the existence of mortgages (which makes the deed impossible). Now the rural property limits he doesn't analyse. The notary restricts himself to what is in the caderneta predial, land certificate, and other legal aspects. The limits of a rural property, can be unclear...
nz7521137
14 August 2022 13:32:06
562
@JohnnyPT Thanks. Doesn't the caderneta predial (or same other official database) contain the exact coordinates (as well as the size) of a property? Is there a GEO Database for Portugal? I am aware that one has to be very careful about land ownership in Portugal, also due to the fact that there is land which isn't officially owned by anybody.
JohnnyPT
14 August 2022 21:26:26
3854
For rustic (non-urban) properties: ( = prédio rustico como indicado na caderneta predial)
The caderneta predial does not have the GPS coordinates (as far as I know) . It has the size of the land and the confrontations of the land to the north, south, east and west. It indicates the names of the neighbouring owners, or if there are none, the existence of a river, a road, a path, etc.
The coordinates of each plot of land are indicated by the land owners with the help of IFAP or the BUPI platforms, with aerospace visualisation of the area under analysis (like Google Earth), GPS coordinates, and polygon drawing that defines the limits of the plot of land in analysis, and then stored in GEO databases.
Main GEO databases (*):
(Used only when the owner requests for supporting agricultural land)
(*) There are other databases, mainly made by some municipalities, although, I think all platforms are now already integrated into BUPI.
It is precisely because of some uncertainties that may exist with some rural properties that it is necessary to have a credible lawyer or solicitor who is independent from the real estate agent that what he does is put up for sale what the land owner says ....
donn25
15 August 2022 20:32:01
180
Concurring with above, my experience is that the lawyer is catching more than one inaccuracy, in the property description and in the procedure proposed in the contract. The lawyer and the seller's real estate agent are naturally well acquainted with each other in my barely-a-city location, by the way, but that doesn't seem to have inhibited the lawyer. I believe a notary would serve approximately the same function as a lawyer here, so maybe they're interchangeable if you have a notary who you like.
Strontium
15 August 2022 21:14:39
237
Concurring with above, my experience is that the lawyer is catching more than one inaccuracy, in the property description and in the procedure proposed in the contract. The lawyer and the seller's real estate agent are naturally well acquainted with each other in my barely-a-city location, by the way, but that doesn't seem to have inhibited the lawyer. I believe a notary would serve approximately the same function as a lawyer here, so maybe they're interchangeable if you have a notary who you like.- @donn25
Almost everywhere in this world you instruct and pay a Lawyer to act for you. Almost everywhere in this world you cannot not instruct an notary to act for you, they do their official duties (act an an official of the state n some respects) for each of which a fee is charged. These two are fundamentally different.
JohnnyPT
05 October 2022 13:47:29
3854
If you are a Landowner in Portugal, you must use BUPi platform to identify your properties
On the BUPi platform, georeferencing is the identification of a plot of land through geographical coordinates, with the aim of defining its exact location and limits on a map, so that there are no doubts about them. This exact georeferencing of the land (with aerial view like google earth system) will be saved in the Land Registry Office (Conservatória dos registos prediais).
This registration in the BUPi platform is mandatory. If you are buying or selling a property, the land must be identified in the BUPi platform. This is a demand from the notary to deed the land.
FAQs:
https://bupi.gov.pt/en/perguntas-frequentes/
Support / Find out how to find and register your properties in BUPi:
Contacts:
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