Possible land ownership...

My dad is 87 and has dementia. He grew up in Nagykovácsi.

Before he got sick, he was going to Hungary and visiting family. I know he helped his family financially. He bought his sister a car and helped his niece build a house. They also has a bungalow in the mountains.

I have absolutely no idea who owned what.

How can find this out being that I am in the United States, I don't know anyone there and I don't speak hungarian?
My dad is 87 and has dementia. He grew up in Nagykovácsi.

Before he got sick, he was going to Hungary and visiting family. I know he helped his family financially. He bought his sister a car and helped his niece build a house. They also has a bungalow in the mountains.

I have absolutely no idea who owned what.

How can find this out being that I am in the United States, I don't know anyone there and I don't speak hungarian?
- @da6875

Sorry to hear about your problem. 

Nagykovácsi is one village  over from us.  It's not a very small place but not that big either - probably not more than 500 houses.   It's relatively upmarket and very close to the American school.   One road in and the same road out.  Bit of an island in the forest.  Quite pleasant.  We walk the dog there sometimes.

For this, I think you need an English speaking lawyer as it's not going to be easy without more information.

It's not uncommon for partial ownership of property. If it was properly registered, it'll be traceable.  Lawyers have better access to property records than individuals.  Then again, property records are  online accessible as they are public records.  However, it'll all be in Hungarian.

You will have to find a way to communicate with your relatives to find out more.  Interpreters are easy to find but you'll have to pay them.  You never know, your relatives might speak English to a high level.  
I know there are a couple of land tax offices that have the legal records of land/property onwership.

We go in every few years to make sure no one has done anything with the papers.

I will have to try to remember exactly what it is called in Hungarian.My HU speaking husband is out ATM.

For a fee and if you can find a Hungarian speaker where you are, you may be able to contact them via phone of e-mail. They charge a small fee for a copy of the onwership papers.

Your property is located at a futher area from ours is so I am sure you would have to contact the land tax office in Buda side. Sorry, not much real help from me. Just thought you might be interested in knowing this info is available without a lawyer.

Don't worry too much about someone taking what is legally yours,the land tax office keeps good records and if they property was left to you or partly to you no one can legally remove you from the records. We still go in every few years to double check things in person though.

I'll repost later if I remember to ask the name of the office.
I know there are a couple of land tax offices that have the legal records of land/property onwership.

We go in every few years to make sure no one has done anything with the papers.

I will have to try to remember exactly what it is called in Hungarian.My HU speaking husband is out ATM.

For a fee and if you can find a Hungarian speaker where you are, you may be able to contact them via phone of e-mail. They charge a small fee for a copy of the onwership papers.

Your property is located at a futher area from ours is so I am sure you would have to contact the land tax office in Buda side. Sorry, not much real help from me. Just thought you might be interested in knowing this info is available without a lawyer.

Don't worry too much about someone taking what is legally yours,the land tax office keeps good records and if they property was left to you or partly to you no one can legally remove you from the records. We still go in every few years to double check things in person though.

I'll repost later if I remember to ask the name of the office.
- @Marilyn Tassy

Yes, the records at the land registry are definitive.  If it says you're the owner, you're the owner.   Everything is available online with two sets of charges - one for just information and the other one for a notarised copy. Lawyers have special access (annoyingly) to things like sale prices.  That really  rubs me up the wrong way - free market info is always good.

One thing just occurred to me is that the OP may need is a PoA (Power of Attorney) to act for his/her father due to his incapacity.   Looking up the records is easy but actually doing something with it is another problem.   Don't know about the USA but in the UK, unless you agreed with the parent that you would take control via a PoA for health and finances (two separate cases),  it would need a judge will declare Dad unfit and appoint whoever nominated as the person in charge (also needs a backup person/alternate). 

It can take some time but in this case it'll be fairly simple I'd have thought with some doctor's statements to back it up.  It would still probably need a hearing of some kind or at least an application.

While you're at it, best to consider any wills too.  It needs an expert lawyer as there are tax and inheritance implications.

Dementia is a horrible disease.  My MIL is on that pathway.  Mrs F seems to think she doesn't need a PoA but I am doubtful about it.  It makes sense to plan ahead.  Even my 97  year old Dad has given PoA to two of my siblings for both health and finances.  I'm not included as I live here and one of my siblings clashes with my Dad on a regular basis so was also not included.  But my Dad has all his marbles.  Interestingly, I do act for my Dad sometimes. I just tell the person I'm dealing with that he's deaf (he is) so I'm acting as interpreter.  Most of the time, they never question it, especially if it's by  phone.
My dad is 87 and has dementia. He grew up in Nagykovácsi.

Before he got sick, he was going to Hungary and visiting family. I know he helped his family financially. He bought his sister a car and helped his niece build a house. They also has a bungalow in the mountains.

I have absolutely no idea who owned what.

How can find this out being that I am in the United States, I don't know anyone there and I don't speak hungarian?
- @da6875

I wonder if you can contact your father's family in Hungary with a translator and ask them some questions?

You would need the name  of your father and the address or the Helyrajzi szam, property number.

Hopefully your father has some papers around to find  the number.

The more info your Hungarian relations can give you the easier it will be when you contact a lawyer or land management office.

The property doens't even need to be in your fathers name for the land management to look up the info fr you. I tis public knwledge but they will charge a fee, not sure how much but around $50. at leas tthat's what we were charged a couple years back.

I'm not sure which office would handle property for Nagykovacsi, they have a few different offices in Budapest that I know of. One is in Buda.


I wonder if you can contact your father's family in Hungary with a translator and ask them some questions?

You would need the name  of your father and the address or the Helyrajzi szam, property number.

Hopefully your father has some papers around to find  the number.

The more info your Hungarian relations can give you the easier it will be when you contact a lawyer or land management office.

The property doens't even need to be in your fathers name for the land management to look up the info fr you. I tis public knwledge but they will charge a fee, not sure how much but around $50. at leas tthat's what we were charged a couple years back.

I'm not sure which office would handle property for Nagykovacsi, they have a few different offices in Budapest that I know of. One is in Buda.


- @Marilyn Tassy
Yes, the property number is key to this but the address is good too.  Name look up is not enough according to Mrs Fluffy.

The fees are not very much, few thousand HUF each for official notarised area plan and actual property record.  But the simple details can be read off the screen for nothing for registered users.    

The actual records will be held the Pest land office.  The one we visited was near Moscow Square.   There will also be land records held at the local government office in Nagykovacsi.     That village is only about 3 miles away from us as the crow flies so I expect it'll be the same land office we used.

We were involved with this kind of thing because we had to gather information on our neighbour's land area and ownership when we were in a dispute with them over the boundary.  
Before starting down this road, you might want to consider how it might end. It's a reasonable guess that your relatives by now consider the land theirs.

Note that the Hungarian civil code does permit acquisition of title by adverse possession.

Have you searched your father's papers for any Hungarian documents?
Before starting down this road, you might want to consider how it might end. It's a reasonable guess that your relatives by now consider the land theirs.

Note that the Hungarian civil code does permit acquisition of title by adverse possession.

Have you searched your father's papers for any Hungarian documents?
- @zif

Agreed, it could turn nasty very quickly.

But just to say, in Hungary, adverse possession is  under very limited circumstances.   I cannot see these applying here.

If the OP's Dad's name is in the property record/land book, then it's definitively Dad as an owner or co-owner.   

My gut feel is probably there are many owners for say, a holiday house in the hills and probably multiple owners on any town property inherited from way back when.    That could be a tough discussion with the others.
Before starting down this road, you might want to consider how it might end. It's a reasonable guess that your relatives by now consider the land theirs.

Note that the Hungarian civil code does permit acquisition of title by adverse possession.

Have you searched your father's papers for any Hungarian documents?
- @zif



So true, many relations think possession makes it theirs alone.

In the 1950's my in-laws bought land in Erd, double sized lot to build their retirement home on.

My MIL decided to purchase another lot as an investment for her 3 children.

Totally seperate purchase from her  and her husbnads land.

In the late 1960's my SIL got divorced so her mother and step-father decided to help her build a home on the land that was for 3 children.

The kept part for the other 2 children, my husband being one of them.

Then his older brother gt married and built a home n the other end of the property.

My SIL and BIL made gardens and set up shop and forgot my husband was suppose to have a portion of that land too.

They figured just because he moved to the US that they could write him off for good.

Legally they way they built there 2 homes on the land there was not enough space left to build a 3rd home on the property.

My MIL was angry with her 2 older children and decided to legally put my husband on her home as a co-benificary when she passed.My BIL is mad as heck that he was written out of her will , he forgot he already got his share from her in the 1960's.

My FIL's share was legally already given to my SIL for his elder care repayment in a contract she wrote up with him.

We had to have a legal contract to show our support of my MIL to legally have my BIL written out. We set up a bank account in her name and deposited a set amount each month  for her support in her old age.

When she passed we were surpirzed that she didn't tough a penny of what we sent her and left the entire account to my husband.

My BIL still feels we owe him something, or rather his wife feels that way.

If you find any documents in your father's things, maybe a notary in Hungary can help you out instead of a pricey lawyer?




So true, many relations think possession makes it theirs alone.

In the 1950's my in-laws bought land in Erd, double sized lot to build their retirement home on.

My MIL decided to purchase another lot as an investment for her 3 children.

Totally seperate purchase from her  and her husbnads land.

In the late 1960's my SIL got divorced so her mother and step-father decided to help her build a home on the land that was for 3 children.

The kept part for the other 2 children, my husband being one of them.

Then his older brother gt married and built a home n the other end of the property.

My SIL and BIL made gardens and set up shop and forgot my husband was suppose to have a portion of that land too.

They figured just because he moved to the US that they could write him off for good.

Legally they way they built there 2 homes on the land there was not enough space left to build a 3rd home on the property.

My MIL was angry with her 2 older children and decided to legally put my husband on her home as a co-benificary when she passed.My BIL is mad as heck that he was written out of her will , he forgot he already got his share from her in the 1960's.

My FIL's share was legally already given to my SIL for his elder care repayment in a contract she wrote up with him.

We had to have a legal contract to show our support of my MIL to legally have my BIL written out. We set up a bank account in her name and deposited a set amount each month  for her support in her old age.

When she passed we were surpirzed that she didn't tough a penny of what we sent her and left the entire account to my husband.

My BIL still feels we owe him something, or rather his wife feels that way.

If you find any documents in your father's things, maybe a notary in Hungary can help you out instead of a pricey lawyer?




- @Marilyn Tassy

Mrs F has a very similar situation going on regarding land and property ownership.  There's a very large plot with 3 houses on it and no fences between them.   One house is unoccupied (original "grandad" house now with many owners) and another occupied with my MIL and the other an aunt (husbands passed already).   Both of them are going downhill with dementia.  It's unclear how these plots are actually divided up.   It was just on family agreements and presumably a handshake maybe 50+ years ago.   If the two current occupants (Mrs F's mother and aunt) die or are incapacitated, then it'll have to mean at least marking the boundaries formally because inevitably the places will need to be sold.  No-one wants to live in these places and no-one has the capital to renovate them, so it'll mean selling probably. It's going to be a problem.
@fluffy2560 I am the poa for my dad along with a will...



I am so thankful for that!
@zif I have and I havent found any. 

I think the end game is to just make sure there is no property in his name. If there is, I want to know what kind and maybe sell or just give it to them legally.

@fluffy2560 I have no issue turning property over to relatives depending on what it is condition, ect

@Marilyn Tassy No documents have been found. I just want to make sure that there is no property. If there is, I want to address it. Depending where and what kind of property, I might sell to relative, just let them have it, etc

@Marilyn Tassy No documents have been found. I just want to make sure that there is no property. If there is, I want to address it. Depending where and what kind of property, I might sell to relative, just let them have it, etc

- @da6875



It might give you peace of mind if you could somehow get in contact with your relatives here in Hungary and ask them.

There must be a legal record here in Hungary about any property ect.

Maybe there were taxes paid on land here and the tax office has records?

Maybe find a Hungarian speaker in your area and have them make a few calls for you.






You need to have a power of attorney that works in Hungary. For one done overseas, normally this means it's been executed either before a notary with an apostille attached or before a Hungarian consul. There may also be special wording required. And if your father is "Frank" in America he may appear as Ferenc in Hungary. Surnames of course are also sometimes changed. Lots of potential problems there.
You need to have a power of attorney that works in Hungary. For one done overseas, normally this means it's been executed either before a notary with an apostille attached or before a Hungarian consul. There may also be special wording required. And if your father is "Frank" in America he may appear as Ferenc in Hungary. Surnames of course are also sometimes changed. Lots of potential problems there.
- @zif

It's good advice.    Really the OP needs a English speaking HU lawyer to help out once property  or bank accounts have been identified.

In my own country and I believe the USA, most PoAs have two versions - one for finances and one for health.    There are time limits to think about - durable PoA and time limited.   In any case, in the absence of it and the subject being less than competent, an application is required to a court.  If the subject dies, the PoA dies with them.   Almost certain to be the same concept here.

BTW,  I know from experience that a person with dementia only has a 7-year lifespan or thereabouts.   My MIL has all the signs of it and there have been multiple others on the HU  and UK sides of the family on the same kind of timeline.  I don't know what we will do with my MIL when she becomes unable to do anything at all. Terrible shame.  
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