Hungary and other countries (Turkey)

Indeed i am back and will continue to follow the forum with great interest.
We indeed moved now and from one way I can almost cry to have left Hungary, pluses of Hungary were almost without exception friendly people, not too pushy, great property, easy (in a village) to keep pets, Schengen, taxes, pork meat, ... many, many advantages, just too getting too expensive.
I have to admit I think Erdogan and Orban are like minded so moving to Turkey did not change too much, but I think the situation in Hungary for many years to come will be more stable.
On the other side Turkey also have loads pluses (notably cost of living and if living in a city (or even village) everything is close by (walking distance). Life is VERY different.

In case any is interested in difference of life, just let me know and I will post

cdw057 wrote:

Indeed i am back and will continue to follow the forum with great interest.
We indeed moved now and from one way I can almost cry to have left Hungary, pluses of Hungary were almost without exception friendly people, not too pushy, great property, easy (in a village) to keep pets, Schengen, taxes, pork meat, ... many, many advantages, just too getting too expensive.
I have to admit I think Erdogan and Orban are like minded so moving to Turkey did not change too much, but I think the situation in Hungary for many years to come will be more stable.
On the other side Turkey also have loads pluses (notably cost of living and if living in a city (or even village) everything is close by (walking distance). Life is VERY different.

In case any is interested in difference of life, just let me know and I will post

Erdogan cannot last much longer there.   His economic policies are going to destroy the economy and destroy people's wealth. Prices must be rising very rapidly. Inflation is out of control there.

Are you seeing much urban decay, lack of investment in public services or even homeless people?

That's funny to mention missing pork meat.
I forgt it is mostly Muslim in Turkey and finding the pork chop is not going to be an easy task.

Funny story, well funny at my expense.
I grew up in your typical working class American family in Ca.
We were not really a very diverse community.
Had many Mexican families in our town that were founders of the town. That's about as exotic were got.
It had been a huge orange growing community before people discvered the peaceful valley and build it up with homes. It had also been used as background for the film industry to make western films and tv shows.
Of course we had a few Jewish children in school but no one really was religious so we never knew the customs of others.
I moved to Flatbush, NY in a very ethnic Jewish area for a few months when I was a silly 19 year old.
My husband, being your average Hungarian liked his pork chops.
I went out by myself to purchase itmes for dinner.I thought pork chops would be fitting that evening.
I went int a Jewish run butcher and ask for them.
He  just glared at me then realized I wasn't playing around but serious and dumb.
He laughed and told me he was sorry, he had just run out of them but perhaps another butcher down the st. would have them.
I said thank you and went on to the next shop.
I did that 2 or 3 times before someone took mercy on my ignoragnce and told me I'd never find them in that neighborhood.
Dang, I felt the fool.

I don't know much about Turkey except what I've seen on U tube, looks pretty enough and it seems they have great coffee.
You know you can laways return to Hungary if you ever change your mind.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

That's funny to mention missing pork meat.
I forgt it is mostly Muslim in Turkey and finding the pork chop is not going to be an easy task.

Funny story, well funny at my expense.
I grew up in your typical working class American family in Ca.
We were not really a very diverse community.
Had many Mexican families in our town that were founders of the town. That's about as exotic were got.
It had been a huge orange growing community before people discvered the peaceful valley and build it up with homes. It had also been used as background for the film industry to make western films and tv shows.
Of course we had a few Jewish children in school but no one really was religious so we never knew the customs of others.
I moved to Flatbush, NY in a very ethnic Jewish area for a few months when I was a silly 19 year old.
My husband, being your average Hungarian liked his pork chops.
I went out by myself to purchase itmes for dinner.I thought pork chops would be fitting that evening.
I went int a Jewish run butcher and ask for them.
He  just glared at me then realized I wasn't playing around but serious and dumb.
He laughed and told me he was sorry, he had just run out of them but perhaps another butcher down the st. would have them.
I said thank you and went on to the next shop.
I did that 2 or 3 times before someone took mercy on my ignorance and told me I'd never find them in that neighborhood.
Dang, I felt the fool.

I don't know much about Turkey except what I've seen on U tube, looks pretty enough and it seems they have great coffee.
You know you can laways return to Hungary if you ever change your mind.

Haha, I like the pork chop story.

But  more important than that is the availability of smoked back bacon.  It's almost criminal matter that they don't have  the proper stuff here.  Moreover, I cannot bring it back here on the plane because of Brexit.   Sunday morning traditional English breakfast is not the same without it.  HP sauce has also disappeared from Tesco shelves.  Disaster!  But that can be brought into HU/EU so solvable.

BTW, once I was stuck overnight near Istanbul airport due to trusting a junior staff member to booking my travel. It was Ramadan.  I used to drink back then. I went to a supermarket and they didn't have any beer.  I asked in several supermarkets. Nope, all beer removed.  All bars closed. I was stuck with the hotel mini-bar.  It was not a great experience.  Just getting food was a problem. It was a big hotel as well - like a Marriott or a Hyatt.  And it was next to the airport. You'd think they'd have had a non-Ramadan service for international travellers. Now I always try and find out when Ramadan is if I have to fly anywhere like that - not just because of the booze but trying to get food when your body clock is all messed up due to time zone changes.

I've always had a few drinks when flying except when I was pregnant and flew to Hawaii, I was a "minor" then anyways, only 20 years old.
Was offered alcohol on the flight, guess the crew thought if I was old enough to have a baby, I was old enough to booze it down.

My sister went on a ski trip in Utah years back. On a Sunday they couldn't get any alcohol in a restaurnat.
You could bring your own bottle in a bag but they were not legally allowed to sell alcohol on  a Sunday?.
Same sort of deal when I worked as a games dealer in Vegas, most of the high bosses were either Italian or Mormon.
I asked a Mormon boss why he was able to work in a casino if it was against his religion to gamble.
He said it was OK to work but not to gamble, sounds a bit fishy to me...

Yes, it was embarrassing when I got home and told my husbnad I tried to buy pork chops from a Jewish butcher.
He asked me if I was insane.
No, just came from a ,"white bread" background.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I've always had a few drinks when flying except when I was pregnant and flew to Hawaii, I was a "minor" then anyways, only 20 years old.
Was offered alcohol on the flight, guess the crew thought if I was old enough to have a baby, I was old enough to booze it down.

My sister went on a ski trip in Utah years back. On a Sunday they couldn't get any alcohol in a restaurnat.
You could bring your own bottle in a bag but they were not legally allowed to sell alcohol on  a Sunday?.
Same sort of deal when I worked as a games dealer in Vegas, most of the high bosses were either Italian or Mormon.
I asked a Mormon boss why he was able to work in a casino if it was against his religion to gamble.
He said it was OK to work but not to gamble, sounds a bit fishy to me...

Yes, it was embarrassing when I got home and told my husbnad I tried to buy pork chops from a Jewish butcher.
He asked me if I was insane.
No, just came from a ,"white bread" background.

We always found that 21 to drink in the USA quite ridiculous.   I mean, are you old enough to vote at 18? Yes, of course. And 20 to have a baby.  Sure. Old enough to fight in an Army?  Yup, old enough to be cannon fodder.  Ay caramba, old enough then surely to have a beer!  Puritanical nonsense.

I forget where it is but some Jewish have helpers to do things for them on their holy day, like switching on lights etc.   

Amish apparently can have mobile phones. I don't know how that works.

Each to their own I guess.

Turkey has wonderful crusty bread. And those fresh simit covered in sesame seeds!

zif wrote:

Turkey has wonderful crusty bread. And those fresh simit covered in sesame seeds!

I quite liked Borek:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Burek_trokut_3.png/330px-Burek_trokut_3.png

Some replies from my favorite posters, so I will continue for now on experiences in Turkey (Alanya) and Hungary.
One thing is for sure due to inflation here (but also relevant to Hungary (and even to EU area)). Main reason to move is to (the expected) cost of living (also some other reasons, but different story).
We went to the weekly (actually twice per week) market in Mahmutlar (loads of posts on what is covered on YouTube), indeed fresh, good and cheap, having said that buying in local small supermarkets it is almost embarrassing on buying (onions, bootreef, ingwer,..) I have no clue how they can make an income (doing shopping for less then EUR 2??)

As to give a Hungarian taste, I DO miss our property (very much SO), I do miss my neighbors, but in Turkey (so far) neighbors, real estate agents, other service providers (shops, markets, ..) have been very good and more service minded.

Hungary for life is good, I agree and please to stay if you can afford.

Shopping for 2 Euros...
I may have to pack up and move to Turkey!
We went today to an outdoors farmers market in Budapest.
They are crazy, cheaper in many cases with some vendors to just shop at Aldi or Tesco.
We did score from a vendor we usually go to.
She was selling walnuts for 500 F per kilo.
We only bought a kilo because they just seemed too cheap.
They are sweet and fresh, very nice, scored, wish we bought a few more kilos.
Last week my husband bought me 8 avacads from that market. He paid 2,000f. only one was good.The rest I tried to smear on my face as a facial.They were so brown and rottten inside I couldn't even put them on my skin. Total rip -off.
The market will be closed until early Jan. so that deal is long gone.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Shopping for 2 Euros...
I may have to pack up and move to Turkey!
We went today to an outdoors farmers market in Budapest.
They are crazy, cheaper in many cases with some vendors to just shop at Aldi or Tesco.
We did score from a vendor we usually go to.
She was selling walnuts for 500 F per kilo.
We only bought a kilo because they just seemed too cheap.
They are sweet and fresh, very nice, scored, wish we bought a few more kilos.
Last week my husband bought me 8 avacads from that market. He paid 2,000f. only one was good.The rest I tried to smear on my face as a facial.They were so brown and rottten inside I couldn't even put them on my skin. Total rip -off.
The market will be closed until early Jan. so that deal is long gone.

In my village, they've just built a market place next to the bus station.   Mrs F and I think it will never get any use and will be a waste of money.  The cost of renting a spot there and the paperwork and supervision is bound to be excessive.    So they built that,  But not more than 200m away, they've just finished building a Lidl.             Encouraging a market and then providing the competition.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Funny thing about Hungarian villages and towns.  They never really have a centre.  Usually one main street with everything spread out along that road.   In many other countries,  the towns and villages have proper centres and squares with restaurants, pedestrian areas and shops. concentrated around that area.

In the link can you also see the prices
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-jjrp6H6c

Having said that, eg apples, tomato's, oranges in local shops are even cheaper (i really do not know how they can survive).
sound decadent, but we already know we will buy "heavy" things with the local shops (also good quality).
For me I do not mind where to live, but internet is definitely a pre-requisite and so is good food. Whereas there are no Indian restaurants around my wife knows how to cook Indian and the spices and lamb are available in abundance.
Hungary also has VERY good food, but virtually impossible to find lamb (and good spices).
By the way goat and sheep cheese (1 year) is around 5 EUR per kg (sorry I am still used to convert not yo HUF even after 7 years.

Also other note with the inflation going out of control, alcohol is even cheaper then Hungary. Cigarettes converted 1 EUR only per package.
Things are crazy, but for normal people in savings in TRY horrible. Having said that in Hungary for those their assets in HUF without income is also not good (even for me having EUR it is not too rosy right now)

Having a lunch for four with starter, main and tea EUR 15 including tip, I can almost cry.

Perhaps I will return to Hungary, but so far so good over here.
Over the last year I have mentioned that Hungary is getting too expensive, mix of inflation, politics (making people happy (short term)) and the natural things of getting aligned with salaries (and cost and rules) of the rest of Europe,
Smoking 3 packages per day in Netherlands would set me back EUR25 per day (let alone the UK).

By the way, my wife also likes walnuts, a kg this morning if i recall was TRY 60 for a kg e EUR 3 , HUF 1000.

cdw057 wrote:

.....
Also other note with the inflation going out of control, alcohol is even cheaper then Hungary. Cigarettes converted 1 EUR only per package.
Things are crazy, but for normal people in savings in TRY horrible. Having said that in Hungary for those their assets in HUF without income is also not good (even for me having EUR it is not too rosy right now)

Having a lunch for four with starter, main and tea EUR 15 including tip, I can almost cry.

Perhaps I will return to Hungary, but so far so good over here.
Over the last year I have mentioned that Hungary is getting too expensive, mix of inflation, politics (making people happy (short term)) and the natural things of getting aligned with salaries (and cost and rules) of the rest of Europe,
Smoking 3 packages per day in Netherlands would set me back EUR25 per day (let alone the UK).

For Turkish people, it's not looking good.

Prices are low but I suppose so are wages.  Question is if producers are surviving, able to pay their wage bills or prices are dropping as desperate sellers try and shift their goods.   Unemployment must be rising as business tries to cut costs in the face of a shrinking market.   Imports must be getting very expensive with the drop in the Turkish currency.   The high price of gas is going to have severe effects by next year both here in HU and there in TR.   Reminds me of the UK stagflation period of the 1970s.

Erdogan will probably want to expand the public sector to reduce the political impacts but to finance it, he's going to have to print money or borrow (if he can).  It's going to be a vicious cycle. It's going to result in a recession there until the economy is reformed/restructured.  That'll mean Erdogan would have to be out of power.

The economics won't add up.  Here in HU, we've got rising prices but at least we've got more conventional policies.

I remember when we could eat at a nice restaurant in Hungary with soup, main course, desert and a bottle or two of wine and the bill was $12.The wait staff would line up in a row and bow when we left, we handed them all a dollar bill on the way out.
First time we visited Hungary in 1976, we foted the bills for dinner for 6 or more people with drinks and didn't even think twice abut how much it cost.
I know my SIL needed to tile her kitchen floor and my husband just handed her a $100. bill and said get it done.
Now you can't even buy the supplies for $100. let alone afford a repairman.

Inflation not in Turkey and EU in general but also Hungary, lets see how it goes
https://hungarytoday.hu/central-bank-in … uble-2022/

cdw057 wrote:

Inflation not in Turkey and EU in general but also Hungary, lets see how it goes
https://hungarytoday.hu/central-bank-in … uble-2022/

Yes, prices are rising all over.  Interest rates will have to rise in HU.

Meanwhile, further East, if Erdogan continues in his direction, inflation in Turkey is going to be at junior Wiemar Republic levels.  It's already at 20%.   

There's an article in the Economist from November 2021 which indicates a Turkish skills exodus has begun - people want to leave as their wealth is eroded. Poverty is going to increase and it's going to lead to instability.

Now he's blaming inflation on a war against Islam.   

These are ravings of a lunatic.

Inflation Rate in Turkey is expected to be 25.00 percent by the end of this quarter, according to Trading Economics global macro models and analysts expectations. In the long-term, the Turkey Inflation Rate is projected to trend around 10.80 percent in 2022 and 5.10 percent in 2023, according to our econometric models.

Many countries to go to, we took Turkey, really sad in Hungary voting is close and even more hand-outs are given, indeed no direct impact to expats, but indirect it will definitely they have to pay (massively). One thing I have to say is that Water, Gas and electricity bills have decreased (partially because of our behavior). Almost all of the rest has increased though.
Good for me that i have limited TRY assets, a bit more of HUF (which is sad). Still inflation i think is going to impact all of us (even if USD and EUR)
HUF us bad, but not as bad as TRY, yesterday it was 20 to the EUR and I bought a liter of Jameson at TRY 300, significanly lower in an islamistic country than Hungary.
Always pluses minuses, inflation however can create unrest (it does here, but could also be in Hungary, lets see)
Having said that Hungary will remain in Schengen and EU for at least for 6 more years (too much subsidies to collect)
Cost of living is a different issue though

cdw057 wrote:

Many countries to go to, we took Turkey, really sad in Hungary voting is close and even more hand-outs are given, indeed no direct impact to expats, but indirect it will definitely they have to pay (massively). One thing I have to say is that Water, Gas and electricity bills have decreased (partially because of our behavior). Almost all of the rest has increased though.
Good for me that i have limited TRY assets, a bit more of HUF (which is sad). Still inflation i think is going to impact all of us (even if USD and EUR)
HUF us bad, but not as bad as TRY, yesterday it was 20 to the EUR and I bought a liter of Jameson at TRY 300, significanly lower in an islamistic country than Hungary.
Always pluses minuses, inflation however can create unrest (it does here, but could also be in Hungary, lets see)
Having said that Hungary will remain in Schengen and EU for at least for 6 more years (too much subsidies to collect)
Cost of living is a different issue though

While it might seem cheaper than here,  people will not be able to make ends meet without selling assets.  It's a temporary advantage for those with EUR or USD.  Ethnics, well, it's another thing.

I think TR is likely to be a lot more volatile than here as poverty is going to seriously increase.   For the Turkish people themselves, I can see them burning down Erdogan's office if he continues in this direction.

His policies are absurd.  He's banking on growth to dig himself out of a hole of his own making and using his Islamic credentials to sell it to the masses.    It really does remind me of the Wiemar period.  They thought they could print money,  fight a war and gain reparations.   What they didn't think was they would lose the war and have to pay it all back.   It's the same as Erdogan - he's financing his project out of potential but unrealised exports.   If everyone runs away from Turkey and buys elsewhere, then he's really had it.  He's destroyed the economy for generations.

Over here, they will be more conventional and increase interest rates to maintain price stability.   I think OV's time is close to an end.  People don't believe him any more.   And the EU is working to keep him under control in the meantime.

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